Bad boat accident at mouth of river

[crzy2bealive]

Sad situation all around.

I take the no wake side everytime no matter what.

I don't know the lines on the other side and it always looks busy as fuck.

I'd rather be hot for a few minutes than worry about getting killed.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[buck35]

Both boats were initially heading the same direction down river. The eliminator was on the port side (Left side).

What?? How can this even happen if the small boat is supposedly hauling the mail?

 

[BoatCop]

I don’t know if this is what happened


View attachment 905768

If there is one thing that ALL performance boaters need to understand, above ANYTHING else, is that:

When you are going faster than boats traveling in the same direction in front of you (overtaking) YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY COLLISION until you are ahead and clear of the slower vessels.

While it may be an idiotic move for the slower boat to turn in front of you, you are still required to maneuver, slow or stop, to prevent collision between the two vessels. I can't even begin to tell you, while investigating boat collisions, how many times I heard "He turned in front of me". My answer: "Yeah. So?"

-----------

Rule 13 - Overtaking

(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules 4-18, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelight.

(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.

(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

-------------

Read the above rule over and over and over again. Sing it to yourself as you go to sleep at night. Print it out and tape it to your helm. Whatever. But know what it says and what it means.

What Rule 13 says, in plain, non-mariner terms, is:

(a) Never mind what any other Rule says. When overtaking, it's your responsibility to avoid a collision;

(b) If you are going faster than the boat in front of you;

(c) If you aren't sure if you are overtaking, act like YOU ARE!

(d) If the idiot in front of you turns, YOU must avoid running into them.

This isn't up for debate. It isn't wrong. It's the law and has been so everywhere on the planet since the official rules were first drafted 30 some years ago, based on hundreds of years of maritime navigation customs.

While some of you may think the rules should be changed for performance boats, lighten up, Francis. You can't have a hodgepodge of different rules for different applications. The rules have to apply to each and every class/size/speed of boat, except where a variation is required for specific, limited circumstances (ie deep draft vessel in narrow channel).

Tres Martin has a great course. They'll teach you how to move the throttles and turn the wheel. But as long as you know what the Navigation Rules are, practice them religiously, STAY ALERT, and anticipate ANYTHING that other boaters may do, you won't have any issues.


Bonus Tip: Did you know that Federal Law requires that any vessel greater than 39' 4" feet must carry a copy of the Navigation Rules book on board?
I'll bet you didn't.

 

[Dossangers]

Speed was a factor for sure, the attitude of these big boats is get the fuck outa the way ! Its a shit show on the river mouth and up river too fast in a small area ! Ive been buzzed so many times by these jackass’s . Who the fuck wants to drive a 40’ boat on the river take it to the ocean

 

[77charger]

Guys.....Is this what RDP is ? A pack of wolves attacking a tragedy? Really sad to see.
WOW. Unbelievable

Agree couple lost their lives now the experts chime in. IMO make another topic the internet crash investigators and leave this for the ones who were killed.

 

[Blackmagic94]

Dave should post a standard High performance boating safety quiz on the forum and require we all take it.


and no offense to Tres but his trade secrets should not be Hidden by extremely high cost that some people cannot afford and that those that have the information should pass that on to this forum in this boating safety quiz so that others can learn and become more safe from that experience. We literally could make boating safer on this forum for everyone around us

 

[Singleton]

Speed was a factor for sure, the attitude of these big boats is get the fuck outa the way ! Its a shit show on the river mouth and up river too fast in a small area ! Ive been buzzed so many times by these jackass’s . Who the fuck wants to drive a 40’ boat on the river take it to the ocean‼

we have no idea what occurred, we need to wait until the facts are out.
only a few folks know what occurred, one already posted and then got ran off the site

EDIT - when I first read Dossangers post, I read it like he was blaming the MTI for the accident. After multiple PM’s and calls I have edited my post again. Meant no disrespect to Mr. Dossangers in my post.

 

[stingray11]

If there is one thing that ALL performance boaters need to understand, above ANYTHING else, is that:

When you are going faster than boats traveling in the same direction in front of you (overtaking) YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY COLLISION until you are ahead and clear of the slower vessels.

While it may be an idiotic move for the slower boat to turn in front of you, you are still required to maneuver, slow or stop, to prevent collision between the two vessels. I can't even begin to tell you, while investigating boat collisions, how many times I heard "He turned in front of me". My answer: "Yeah. So?"

-----------

Rule 13 - Overtaking

(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules 4-18, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelight.

(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.

(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

-------------

Read the above rule over and over and over again. Sing it to yourself as you go to sleep at night. Print it out and tape it to your helm. Whatever. But know what it says and what it means.

What Rule 13 says, in plain, non-mariner terms, is:

(a) Never mind what any other Rule says. When overtaking, it's your responsibility to avoid a collision;

(b) If you are going faster than the boat in front of you;

(c) If you aren't sure if you are overtaking, act like YOU ARE!

(d) If the idiot in front of you turns, YOU must avoid running into them.

This isn't up for debate. It isn't wrong. It's the law and has been so everywhere on the planet since the official rules were first drafted 30 some years ago, based on hundreds of years of maritime navigation customs.

While some of you may think the rules should be changed for performance boats, lighten up, Francis. You can't have a hodgepodge of different rules for different applications. The rules have to apply to each and every class/size/speed of boat, except where a variation is required for specific, limited circumstances (ie deep draft vessel in narrow channel).

Tres Martin has a great course. They'll teach you how to move the throttles and turn the wheel. But as long as you know what the Navigation Rules are, practice them religiously, STAY ALERT, and anticipate ANYTHING that other boaters may do, you won't have any issues.


Bonus Tip: Did you know that Federal Law requires that any vessel greater than 39' 4" feet must carry a copy of the Navigation Rules book on board?
I'll bet you didn't.

Thank you for posting that prayers go out to the families and friends of all.

And I might just add rules of the road are fine and dandy but you must assume the person driving the other boat does not know the rules of the road. I have seen so many situations where people do not know when they have a right away or you have a right away. And since many of us have extremely fast boats we must be even more careful to watch out for these people

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

 

[relaxalot]

I just hate these threads. Good times can turn tragic in a blink of an eye. Life is short, hold onto your loved ones tight and appreciate every breath.

Regarding the location where the crash happened - i was surprised how sketchy it is to get into the river from the lake this year. That aim for the reed island and cut right and then cut left is narrow and a bIt unnerving. Then you have people crowding the entrance and some that don’t know what they’re doing at all cutting across or even towing tubes in the general area. I find my focus is super pinpoint when we run through that part whether I’m a passenger or a driver.

They should really dredge the entrance to help the flow of traffic. Can’t really make it I wake with the shallow issues. Maybe do something like Florida with a Dedicated dredge lane on each side for coming and going and keep it dredged. I don’t know but it’s sketchy right now.

If there is one thing that ALL performance boaters need to understand, above ANYTHING else, is that:

When you are going faster than boats traveling in the same direction in front of you (overtaking) YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY COLLISION until you are ahead and clear of the slower vessels.

While it may be an idiotic move for the slower boat to turn in front of you, you are still required to maneuver, slow or stop, to prevent collision between the two vessels. I can't even begin to tell you, while investigating boat collisions, how many times I heard "He turned in front of me". My answer: "Yeah. So?"

-----------

Rule 13 - Overtaking

(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules 4-18, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelight.

(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.

(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

-------------

Read the above rule over and over and over again. Sing it to yourself as you go to sleep at night. Print it out and tape it to your helm. Whatever. But know what it says and what it means.

What Rule 13 says, in plain, non-mariner terms, is:

(a) Never mind what any other Rule says. When overtaking, it's your responsibility to avoid a collision;

(b) If you are going faster than the boat in front of you;

(c) If you aren't sure if you are overtaking, act like YOU ARE!

(d) If the idiot in front of you turns, YOU must avoid running into them.

This isn't up for debate. It isn't wrong. It's the law and has been so everywhere on the planet since the official rules were first drafted 30 some years ago, based on hundreds of years of maritime navigation customs.

While some of you may think the rules should be changed for performance boats, lighten up, Francis. You can't have a hodgepodge of different rules for different applications. The rules have to apply to each and every class/size/speed of boat, except where a variation is required for specific, limited circumstances (ie deep draft vessel in narrow channel).

Tres Martin has a great course. They'll teach you how to move the throttles and turn the wheel. But as long as you know what the Navigation Rules are, practice them religiously, STAY ALERT, and anticipate ANYTHING that other boaters may do, you won't have any issues.


Bonus Tip: Did you know that Federal Law requires that any vessel greater than 39' 4" feet must carry a copy of the Navigation Rules book on board?
I'll bet you didn't.

Thank you to boat cop for always providing us with good solid information for many years on this forum! It is always good to have a solid source of knowledge and even better that Alan is willing to take the time to share it.

 

[stingray11]

Speed was a factor for sure, the attitude of these big boats is get the fuck outa the way ! Its a shit show on the river mouth and up river too fast in a small area ! Ive been buzzed so many times by these jackass’s . Who the fuck wants to drive a 40’ boat on the river take it to the ocean[emoji845]

Speed and the size of the boat is never the factor the factor is the driver (captain)of the boat. That's like blaming a gun for a murder

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

 

[boatpi]

Alan always nailed it, he’s a resident rdp expert, trust me what he says is gospel this guy has been there and done that . you can speculate all you want but when the rubber meets the road is experience knowledge is the final voice when it comes to the law.

people like him will be called as experts in court to testify, and others are valuable but unbiased experts are the ones that will always prevail.

Thanks AgainAlan jumping in again when all the smoke clears to give a clear perspective.

 

[H20 Toie]

Well I don't have a fast boat and never will. I wanted to take it just to learn more. Only reason I didn't was the cost.

He has different classes, the performance boat one is $2500 but the other ones are cheaper

 

[Ziggy]

?

Sorry, that wasn't directed at your post. Apparently I somehow hit the reply button on it somewhere along the line while scrolling. Not the first time I've done that with my fat thumb.

 

[CLdrinker]

Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves and your assumptions.

 

[RiverDave]

you have no idea WTF occurred, so maybe wait until the facts are out
only a few folks know what occurred, one already posted and then got ran off the site

The one that posted said a small block saycruiser was super fast and offered virtually no information as to what actually happened other than that person knew them.

 

[Singleton]

The one that posted said a small block saycruiser was super fast and offered virtually no information as to what actually happened other than that person knew them.

when I told him to edit some post, he sent me a couple PM’s
based on those PM’s, looks like he knows something

 

[H20 Toie]

and no offense to Tres but his trade secrets should not be Hidden by extremely high cost that some people cannot afford and that those that have the information should pass that on to this forum in this boating safety quiz so that others can learn and become more safe from that experience. We literally could make boating safer on this forum for everyone around us

That sounds like a great idea, Some Manufactures provide the class when you purchase a boat,
But how do you go about giving all this info to the masses? part of the class is actually running in a boat and putting the info that you learned to the test.
Kind of like how kids take drivers training, you can't do the whole thing reading a book, you go out and drive the car.
As far as high cost i'm not sure how it can be considered that, if there were thousands of instructors around the country that might be one thing, but you have a couple of guys that have who knows how many years of experience willing to show what they have learned, that travel all over the country (flights hotels etc)
plus the liability insurance of taking people out on a performance boat, not to mention the wear and tear plus fuel. i'm pretty sure he isn't making a fortune off of the classes,
i'm just thankful that he does and i know there are a lot of safer drivers out there because of him

i get that the $ is a lot to spend, but for something that lasts you a lifetime and may very well save your life or someone else it is money well spent.
now if you are driving a non step boat v hull boat the class is not for you. maybe the basic class is but i have not taken that one.

 

[Blackmagic94]

That sounds like a great idea, Some Manufactures provide the class when you purchase a boat,
But how do you go about giving all this info to the masses? part of the class is actually running in a boat and putting the info that you learned to the test.
Kind of like how kids take drivers training, you can't do the whole thing reading a book, you go out and drive the car.
As far as high cost i'm not sure how it can be considered that, if there were thousands of instructors around the country that might be one thing, but you have a couple of guys that have who knows how many years of experience willing to show what they have learned, that travel all over the country (flights hotels etc)
plus the liability insurance of taking people out on a performance boat, not to mention the wear and tear plus fuel. i'm pretty sure he isn't making a fortune off of the classes,
i'm just thankful that he does and i know there are a lot of safer drivers out there because of him

i get that the $ is a lot to spend, but for something that lasts you a lifetime and may very well save your life or someone else it is money well spent.
now if you are driving a non step boat v hull boat the class is not for you. maybe the basic class is but i have not taken that one.

Well we can continue the status que or we can pool or knowledge together to make one of the best performance driving instruction blogs known to man and maybe save one crash. Yes I know hands on is better but Fundamentals of when things go wrong could be huge.

 

[Dossangers]

Speed and the size of the boat is never the factor the factor is the driver (captain)of the boat. That's like blaming a gun for a murder

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

Big boat ran over little boat we know that for sure.

 

[Turnup]

I think anyone that closes their mind to learning makes a huge mistake.

This doesn't specifically relate to high performance boat operation, but I'm always amazed by how many boaters on RDP are ignorant of right of way regulations and other operating knowledge.

Someone will mention something about stand on and give way boats, or the proper length of an anchor rode, then several posters will say something like 'Huh? What's that?' Then they laugh off their lack of knowledge, as if it's unimportant.

Motherfuckers, it is important. When you're running 100 MPH, you'd better know what to do when you're being approached by 90° crossing traffic from both sides. The answer isn't 'I'm a big boat and they can see I'm running fast so they need to pull back on the throttles'.

I was criticized last night because I took exception to a poster saying a smaller boat should be looking behind their boat, and 'move over' for a 42 footer. It actually pissed me off. There's too much big boat nut swinging in here already, and the poster implied everyone needs to get out of the way of those boats.

That's not how it works. But even though there's widespread ignorance of navigation rules everywhere, those actions are particularly egregious on Lake Havasu and the river. Here, for example, is the legal outcome of the 2018 Labor Day weekend crash that killed four people:

Mortensen said Crist, with five passengers aboard, was operating a 26-foot Sleek boat that was southbound. She said Grabowski, with nine passengers aboard, was northbound in a 28-foot Hallet boat when the collision occurred. All of the deceased were on the Hallet.

None of the 16 people in the two boats involved were wearing life jackets.

Chief Deputy Sheriff Dean McKie said Deputy County Attorney Megan McCoy has informed the sheriff’s office that the surviving boat operator will not be prosecuted because “there is no reasonable likelihood of conviction.”

McKie said the investigation determined that Crist and Grabowski were both at fault for operating the boats at unsafe speeds, in a narrow stretch of the river during a time of poor lighting and visibility. He said it was determined that both operators had alcohol in their systems, but level of impairment could not be measured due to delays with toxicological analysis.

McKie said investigators determined multiple factors were at play, but that the cause of the deadly crash can’t be tied to any single one of them.

Mohave Valley Daily News High School Sports | News West Publishing

For Mohave Valley Daily News High School Sports scores and schedules, trust News West Publishing. We keep you up-to-date on the latest high school Sports news.

www.mohavedailynews.com

Other media sources also said neither boat was showing running lights at the time of the crash. Even though it was a dark night, both boats were operating at unsafe speeds, both operators had an unspecified amount of alcohol in their systems, and none of the sixteen passengers were wearing PFDs.

Someone saw those drivers drinking in the hours before that crash. They know how much they had to drink. But those witnesses are fucking cowards and pussies. They won't come forward. So the boat operators escape any legal jeopardy, and last month Raegan Heitzig's parents were finally handed a few bones to bury.

But any comments on RDP about this gross negligence were shushed with 'It's a tragedy, it's inappropriate to say those things so soon'. People said the same thing about me last night, even though I didn't say anything specific about the crash or its victims. One poster told me I should stay away from the river if I don't like it, implying I'm unqualified to operate in those conditions, but of course he is.

When the fuck is it going to become important? When are people going to take a one hour self learning examination on the internet? When are people going to start wearing PFDs when they jump in the lake or boat at night? When?

This comment above:

Closures, no wake zones, dredging. speed limits.....

What was the official cause of the accident that you guys are providing solutions for?

Is just stupid. There have been other posts in this thread that basically say the same thing. 'Its crowded in that spot on the river. But I'm not going to slow down, because I know what I'm doing'. The poster is actually ridiculing those who have recognized that section of water has multiple issues; depth, sandbars, and a curving approach. Those members are searching for an answer to a dangerous area. But the poster's solution, endorsed above by others with the same defective mindset, is 'GTF out off the lake if you can't handle it like a man'.

So don't do a fucking thing to change how you roll. Don't wear PFDs, even if it's dark and you're irresponsibly running 60 MPH. Keep complaining about BUI checkpoints. Be ready to point that finger at someone else. Tell everyone one more time how much experience you have.

But the biggest rule you must follow...make sure you post RIP and condolences to the next dead people. Because they're the victims of accidents. No one is ever at fault. A poster above said that, and he's an important member of RDP, so of course he's correct. Don't mention anything else, even if it's factual, because you're dancing on the graves of the dead.

Good post.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Well we can continue the status que or we can pool or knowledge together to make one of the best performance driving instruction blogs known to man and maybe save one crash. Yes I know hands on is better but Fundamentals of when things go wrong could be huge.

You guys have come across an interesting angle.... as a fleet driver having a company car I have to take annual tests designed to lower our company accident rates. Company has 65K worldwide employees and tons fleet vehicles out there so they outsource to a firm that specializes in awareness training. I'm sure others listening here have same scenario. There are two aspects to the training; web based elearning modules designed with sophisticated videos depicting accident scenarios asking what is correct choice to make and the other part is behind the wheel training where we take our fleet vehicles to a huge parking lot for a day of cool driving safety drills.

Perhaps there's an opportunity in the market for a company to develop boat safety elearning courses as well and build and reinforce awareness levels. I also could envision selling such a platform to the boat manufacturers to throw in with the new sales. Hmmmmmmm

 

[BoatCop]

Perhaps there's an opportunity in the market for a company to develop boat safety elearning courses as well and build and reinforce awareness levels. I also could envision selling such a platform to the boat manufacturers to throw in with the new sales. Hmmmmmmm

There are numerous e-learning and in person classes available for Boating Safety Education. In a lot of cases they're free or low cost. Completing them can get you a discount of up to 25% on your boat insurance. While the majority of them don't have hands-on instruction (*more on this below), the knowledge of basic Navigation Rules go a long way in preventing collisions.

*The reason that very few Boating Education Courses offer hands-on, behind the wheel training, is that there are so many different configurations of boats to make it feasible. Inboard, direct drive, outboard, jet, mono-hull, dual hull (cats), tri-hull, performance, PWC, canoes, rowboats, airboats, etc. And for every one of those boats, there are dozens of different configurations, right hand drive, left hand drive, center console, reverse rotation props, single, dual, triple, quad, engines. Every one of those vessel types have a different skillset to operate. So just getting people into a seat to give them the knowledge of how to operate any boat SAFELY, rather than how to physically operate a particular boat, puts us way ahead of the curve.

Register for upcoming Arizona Boater Education Courses

Boater Education Courses are required to be taken before operating PWCs (jet skis) and many types of boats. Register here for your state's required classes.

www.register-ed.com

Boating - Arizona Game & Fish Department

Purchase your Arizona boat or watercraft registration. Take a boating safety class. Remember to wear a life jacket on the water.

www.azgfd.com

California State Parks

California State Parks, State of California

dbw.parks.ca.gov

Boating Safety Courses

 

[DaveH]

If there is one thing that ALL performance boaters need to understand, above ANYTHING else, is that:

When you are going faster than boats traveling in the same direction in front of you (overtaking) YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY COLLISION until you are ahead and clear of the slower vessels.

While it may be an idiotic move for the slower boat to turn in front of you, you are still required to maneuver, slow or stop, to prevent collision between the two vessels. I can't even begin to tell you, while investigating boat collisions, how many times I heard "He turned in front of me". My answer: "Yeah. So?"

-----------

Rule 13 - Overtaking

(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules 4-18, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelight.

(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.

(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

-------------

Read the above rule over and over and over again. Sing it to yourself as you go to sleep at night. Print it out and tape it to your helm. Whatever. But know what it says and what it means.

What Rule 13 says, in plain, non-mariner terms, is:

(a) Never mind what any other Rule says. When overtaking, it's your responsibility to avoid a collision;

(b) If you are going faster than the boat in front of you;

(c) If you aren't sure if you are overtaking, act like YOU ARE!

(d) If the idiot in front of you turns, YOU must avoid running into them.

This isn't up for debate. It isn't wrong. It's the law and has been so everywhere on the planet since the official rules were first drafted 30 some years ago, based on hundreds of years of maritime navigation customs.

While some of you may think the rules should be changed for performance boats, lighten up, Francis. You can't have a hodgepodge of different rules for different applications. The rules have to apply to each and every class/size/speed of boat, except where a variation is required for specific, limited circumstances (ie deep draft vessel in narrow channel).

Tres Martin has a great course. They'll teach you how to move the throttles and turn the wheel. But as long as you know what the Navigation Rules are, practice them religiously, STAY ALERT, and anticipate ANYTHING that other boaters may do, you won't have any issues.


Bonus Tip: Did you know that Federal Law requires that any vessel greater than 39' 4" feet must carry a copy of the Navigation Rules book on board?
I'll bet you didn't.

While this is 100% correct......ALL bets are off if the operator of the small vessel is found to have been intoxicated.

 

[Tpltrbl303]

here comes a californian trying to take away more rights.....

Prayers to all involved including the survivors...

I live in California and I am positive that I live closer to the river than you and that I have more hours in a boat on the river than you.

Closing or shutting down anything is the last thing any boater wants to see.

A tragedy happened, fellow boaters were killed and you use it to take a shot at others who are trying to come to terms with it.

RDP has always been a place for our passion in boating (and other shit) but ignorantly throwing turds on a topic like this is wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BoatCop]

While this is 100% correct......ALL bets are off if the operator of the small vessel is found to have been intoxicated.

Not true. I've had several cases where the at-fault party was sober and the "victim" was drunk. The drunk still gets arrested, but when the investigation reveals the other party was at fault, reports woud attest to that, and they would also be appropriately charged.

 

[Havasu blue label]

Both parties are in bad shape

 

[DaveH]

Not true. I've had several cases where the at-fault party was sober and the "victim" was drunk. The drunk still gets arrested, but when the investigation reveals the other party was at fault, reports woud attest to that, and they would also be appropriately charged.

i dont have any doubt a legal shit storm is awaiting the operator of the larger boat.

but i do believe if the other operator was intoxicated, it opens up all sorts of legal arguments as to "safe operation" of a vessel and so forth.

if the operator of the big boat is found to have been drunk....his life is completely over.

 

[Havasu blue label]

Correct if no alcohol it’s still a up hill money pit

 

[draggin904]

I have contributed very little to RD's but ..i think its important to learn from tragic and heart wrenching accidents.. and wait to hear the exact cause or causes of them.. prayers for everyone involved in this accident..

 

[WATERDOG]

You guys have come across an interesting angle.... as a fleet driver having a company car I have to take annual tests designed to lower our company accident rates. Company has 65K worldwide employees and tons fleet vehicles out there so they outsource to a firm that specializes in awareness training. I'm sure others listening here have same scenario. There are two aspects to the training; web based elearning modules designed with sophisticated videos depicting accident scenarios asking what is correct choice to make and the other part is behind the wheel training where we take our fleet vehicles to a huge parking lot for a day of cool driving safety drills.

Perhaps there's an opportunity in the market for a company to develop boat safety elearning courses as well and build and reinforce awareness levels. I also could envision selling such a platform to the boat manufacturers to throw in with the new sales. Hmmmmmmm

Does it not all boil down to defensive driving? You never know what might happen in front of you. Goes for boats and cars, motorcycles too.

 

[WATERDOG]

Based on a couple post I'm going to guess it was 1 of 3 things, if the boats were traveling in the same direction and were close to eachother. Bow steer, steering failure, or abrupt maneuver to avoid hitting something. All 3 could result in crossing another vessels path of travel.
The bow steering scenario has happened to me at the narrow part of the river South of Topoc. Going South in the Jet boat and saw some bigger boats coming. Sped up a bit to avoid being in the narrow area with them and the bow hooked and went across the river and had no control. Once I got control, my steering was going the other way and when I gave it throttle the boat did a 180 and went across the river again. It was a scary way to learn about bow steer. I was lucky to not get hit.

Your actually more lucky you didn't hit someone.

 

[Looking Glass]

I have read all the posts in here on this disaster. The one fact is I only read one post that was informational and not throwing B.S. or making judgments. That post was # 323 BoatCop's factual and explaining the Law.

 

[stephenkatsea]

I said it before, no solutions will be found here at this time, may they RIP and my thoughts and prayers go out to all involved. IMHO, one of the more very interesting items to surface on this thread is the belief, of some, that one of those vessels could never operate at slower speeds in that particular area. I don't even know if that is true. Some here disagree. But, if it is, WTF! !

 

[stephenkatsea]

Boat Cop - Perhaps you can best explain what were once known as "The General Prudential Rule" and also "The Rule of Good Seamanship". Looks like they each pertain. Each remain valid and laws. Looking at each as a means of prevention, not fault finding.

 

[RVR SWPR]

Several of you guys need make sure attend the next “Desert Storm Street Fair”.Walk the entire display.LHC will be defined for you.There should be no doubt RDP Membership always considers every accident a tragedy.

 

[riverroyal]

Just got home to wonderful weather in socal. Figured id look to see if there was any news
Nope. Just arguing.

 

[H20 Toie]

 

[MSum661]

775,000 people visit Havasu each year. Given that number divided by the number of unfortunate incidents I would say that roughly 99% of the crowd is still doing o.k. in the year 2020. You can fall off a step ladder and have bad things happen too. Yada yada...yada.

I feel bad for all involved on this one. I always do. Will throw a prayer out there this evening for the those who lost loved ones and survivors.

 

[riverroyal]

Daves pic looks like engine cover damage. This has front.

This is really sad.
Tragic

 

[HBCraig]

Guys
Imagine if the parties involved are your sister, brother, uncle, parent or whatever ans yiu read this thread.

Honestly, would you want this thread to represent the involved party or the deceased? I am just saying to step back a little and put yourself in that situation.

I am all for a healthy debate, but just keep it respectful and remember there are families planning funerals now.

Just my opinion.

 

[94Nautique]

My judgement is not based on the accident. I have spent more that enough time on the lake to see the problem. You are asking for trouble when you crowd the lake with all types , shapes and operator skill levels and then allow unlimited speed through out the lake. I worry about my family and friends. Weekends on the lake is foolish. I also feel sad for the families of the dead boaters.

What is your favorite cove to visit on Havasu with your flatty?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Areas could be designated for high speed other areas not to exceed 35 or so. The gorge should be limited to 25!

LOL, no.

If someone tragically dies going 25 should we reduce the speed limit again? What if they die jumping off the back of the boat

If you don’t feel safe going over 35, don’t go over 35.

 

[RiverDave]

He said he was following their Instagram stories that day before the accident. Drinking and partying and plenty of inebriation. Guess they had a digital trail prior to the accident.

You’re a moderator. Go back and look at the posts prior to edit.

I will.. but the driver of this boat never drinks. He is a Mormon I know him personally.

 

[prorider]

Jesus Christ there are a bunch stupid people. We don’t need any more Fucking laws.

 

[RiverDave]

I just got back to Havasu.. I have been traveling and didn’t have my glasses so I wasn’t able to read most the responses on my phone

 

[Looking Glass]

I just got back to Havasu.. I have been traveling and didn’t have my glasses so I wasn’t able to read most the responses on my phone

You are lucky.

 

[MSum661]

View attachment 905836

Just curious..is that a sandbar on the upper left side of the photo?
I haven't been up in that area for years. Lately I've been turning around at the mouth and heading back towards Cattail.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Hey folks, how about you let these poor souls Rest In Peace. And let’s start a new thread.
I’ll start it. Performance Boat driving tips.

 

[Tom Slick]

I’ve read this entire thread and have yet to read anything that says that it was the big boats fault, yet many of you continue to say that it was the big boats fault. Do we have definitive proof that it was the big boats fault, or is this yet another “it must be the rich big boat guys fault” deals?

 

[stephenkatsea]

If anyone opts to boat on a portion, of any water, where they are unable to go slow or slow down . . . . Good Luck to you and other boaters in your vicinity.