Back brakes gone in 19k

[DaveC]

So my wonderful Jaguar has no more back brakes after 19,000 miles. The fronts are still 50% +. (2009 JAG XF S/C) Plus the rear rotor look "worn."

Wonderful. I can hear it already, the warranty does not cover consumables such as brakes. (note these are brembo "style" brakes with big ass pads and rotors. Parts alone are gonna be $400 for all 4) :grumble::bash:

My average in non-performance cars trucks is over 100,000 miles on brakes. this is my second high-performance car and the last one got 60,000 on the brakes and I beat that car like it owed me money. Whats everyone getting in their overpriced performance cars??

Two potential issues. The parking brake is automatic and electric and has a sensor that "feels" pressure. It always releases after I step on the gas and begin moving. It feels "strange" to say the least. The stability control is a nanny as it is always coming on cuz I like to drive hard and fast. (I cannot tell or figure out if it uses just TC or also rear braking to stop excessive rear wheel spin??)

So I did some research online. Guess their rear brakes are a known issue. No fix nor will they warranty. Also known issues are scored rotors too. Nice.

I drive 25,000 miles a year so I guess I gotta get brakes ever 8 months.

I am hesistant to go to the dealer cuz they are going to tell me to pound sand and thats when the fight will start. But I am wondering if I should call as ask them if they found a fix yet for their bad back brakes yet. :rotflmao:

Am I over-reacting? Should I STFU and just take it? and do I got a legit gripe?

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

The traction control does use the brakes.

http://www.r1concepts.com/jaguar-xf-2009-brakes.htm

Get the posi-quiet ceramics.:thumbsup

 

[Gramps]

I'd be in the dealers face. 19 k is bullshit

 

[Guest]

I'd be in the dealers face. 19 k is bullshit

lol.....and their gonna tell him....Piss off ....mate...oint

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

...and it's Forduar turned Indian!:boobeyes:

 

[rivermobster]

I would take it in and see what they say.

Note: They are gonna look at your tires to see how you drive the car. IF you really do drive the crap outa it, it's gonna be obvious!

Personally, if your still on your first set of tires, and the rear brakes are gone, it would seem to me theres a problem that then needs to addressed. Be polite, dont argue with anyone, and gently push the issue right up the ladder. Advisor, service manager, then call the cust. sat. hotline, and ask for an appt. with the district rep at the dealer.

PM me if you need any help. There is a Jag dealer here at our store.

 

[DaveC]

jolly good!!!!

lol.....and their gonna tell him....Piss off ....mate...oint

see this is why JBB is the director. He cuts thru the BS and sees the issue.

The closest dealer is pretty far away. I really dont have time to drive there and be told to fawk off which I know is gonna happen. I know whats gonna happen so why dont I save myself some time and aggravation

 

[Guest]

see this is why JBB is the director. He cuts thru the BS and sees the issue.

...noted.

 

[Chucky]

Something is not rit. Front brakes are primary. Most of the brakeing.Something is wrong, Give them hell

 

[Starloans]

with 6" lift rollin 20s has 95k miles. NEVER changed the pads yet. Last I looked still looked like 50%+ on the pads. :champagne:

I put that truck on the scales by itself and this truck weighs 7400#s

See....the US government CAN build reliable vehicles. arty2:

I'm not even gonna go down the British car reliability road with you since I don't know ya. :bash::skull

Good luck with it.

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

The computer activates the rear brakes to control wheelspin....thats the only thing wrong.

 

[Guest]

I'm not even gonna go down the British car reliability road with you since I don't know ya. :bash::skull

Good luck with it.

I have worked on quite a few British Leyland products. You know why the British drink warm beer?....

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

The fridge quit!

 

[Guest]

The fridge quit!

It quit due to it's lucas electrical system...

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

Damn positive ground refrigerator's!

 

[Starloans]

I have worked on quite a few British Leyland products. You know why the British drink warm beer?....

Sorry I haven't heard that one but.......

Do you know why the British don't build computers???:hmm

 

[pronstar]

Something is not rit. Front brakes are primary. Most of the brakeing.Something is wrong, Give them hell

A lot of newer cars - especially European ones - use increased rear bias and/or softer rear pads to help with braking duties. You can often see the results of it...on many of these cars, the rear wheels are dirtier than the fronts.

 

[DaveC]

see here is the problem. I should not have to do all this. ITs a waste. I bought the car under the understanding that it would be taken care of.

I know its a defect. They know its a defect. I know what BS can be shoveled out.

If they dont wanna handle their responsibility fine. I would rather save myself the trouble and lost time and get it fixed locally.

However I am considering giving them a call and having a chat

I would take it in and see what they say.

Note: They are gonna look at your tires to see how you drive the car. IF you really do drive the crap outa it, it's gonna be obvious!

Personally, if your still on your first set of tires, and the rear brakes are gone, it would seem to me theres a problem that then needs to addressed. Be polite, dont argue with anyone, and gently push the issue right up the ladder. Advisor, service manager, then call the cust. sat. hotline, and ask for an appt. with the district rep at the dealer.

PM me if you need any help. There is a Jag dealer here at our store.

 

[DaveC]

Heres is what I am wondering. For those with performance sedans/cars how much mileage you getting on brakes?? Just wondering if there is a difference????

On my CTSV I got 55,000 on the brakes

Lets not compare trucks thats apples to oranges. Besides I know how many miles trucks get on their brakes my 05 cheby is doing great.

on a side note, I realize the British cars are less than trustworthy. . But I did lease it so eventually it wont be my problem . If its junk I guess I gotta suck it up. Its still alot of fun and a nice ride.

Maybe we should have JBB infract me for buying such a car??!?

 

[Tom Brown]

see here is the problem. I should not have to do all this. ITs a waste. I bought the car under the understanding would be taken care of.

I know its a defect. They know its a defect. I know what BS can be shoveled out.

If they dont wanna handle their responsibility fine. I would rather save myself the trouble and lost time and get it fixed locally.

However I am considering giving them a call and having a chat

If I understand this thread correctly, all of this is coming before you've taken the car to them.

Why not give them a chance to take care of it before you start slamming?

 

[Guest]

If I understand this thread correctly, all of this is coming before you've taken the car to them.

Why not give them a chance to take care of it before you start slamming?

Tom.....at this point, I would advise you just to shut up....:champagne:

Heres is what I am wondering. For those with performance sedans/cars how much mileage you getting on brakes?? Just wondering if there is a difference????

On my CTSV I got 55,000 on the brakes

Lets not compare trucks thats apples to oranges. Besides I know how many miles trucks get on their brakes my 05 cheby is doing great.

on a side note, I realize the British cars are less than trustworthy. . But I did lease it so eventually it wont be my problem . If its junk I guess I gotta suck it up. Its still alot of fun and a nice ride.

Maybe we should have JBB infract me for buying such a car??!?

I think you should call them foreigners up....and go off on them...like a rabid, hisssing Wolverine!

 

[DaveC]

JBB. I like your style!!! May I try???

Hey Brown piss off mate

 

[rivermobster]

see here is the problem. I should not have to do all this. ITs a waste. I bought the car under the understanding that it would be taken care of.

I know its a defect. They know its a defect. I know what BS can be shoveled out.

If they dont wanna handle their responsibility fine. I would rather save myself the trouble and lost time and get it fixed locally.

However I am considering giving them a call and having a chat

< just courious where you verified this at.

If I understand this thread correctly, all of this is coming before you've taken the car to them.

Why not give them a chance to take care of it before you start slamming?

Kinna my question as well. But this way is much more fun aint it?

If it truly is a defect, that's what warranties are for, to take care of manufactures defects. If its because (as he stated) he drives like a nut case, well, thats not really a manufactures defect!

I'm think'n Dave already know which one it is.

 

[Guest]

JBB. I like your style!!! May I try???

Hey Brown piss off mate

Not bad.....Not bad at all.....However, when dealing with a hardcore jackhole like Brown, I suggest all caps....That really pisses the foreigners off...:thumbsup

 

[DaveC]

good question. But let me splain something to you. I did some online research and to put it into numbers I see it as follows:

90% probability Im told to piss off
10% probability Im told it will be taken care of

so really what I'm trying to do is determine my level of outrage upon receiving me denial.

Again our director cuts through and clarifies

If I understand this thread correctly, all of this is coming before you've taken the car to them.

Why not give them a chance to take care of it before you start slamming?

 

[Tom Brown]

90% probability Im told to piss off
10% probability Im told it will be taken care of

Indeed. I share your view.

I haven't followed Jag for a decade but they used to be the most expensive car to own, and the least reliable, by far, of any manufacturer. Again, I lost track shortly after Ford took over. This is disorienting to say but, back in the day, the thought of a Jag being built to Ford quality levels was a revelation in quality improvement.

Scoop the dog shit from your yard into a paper bag. Take it with you, along with some lighter fluid and a lighter.

If they give you the wire brush treatment, squirt some fluid on the bag, drop it on the dealership floor, and light it.

 

[DaveC]

ok let me clarify. So from what I learned so far its the way the car was designed. Its doing what it was designed to do which is wear out the brakes. Lol Not a defect per se, just a poor design.

They changed the design incidently later on:bash:

I will call it a defect because thats my opinion. yours will vary

I actually dont beat this car quite like I beat the predecessor, whose brakes lasted 55,000 not 19,000.

If it is what it is then so be it.... My bad for getting a POS. I will STFU and get back to work to pay for my brakes

< just courious where you verified this at.



Kinna my question as well. But this way is much more fun aint it?

If it truly is a defect, that's what warranties are for, to take care of manufactures defects. If its because (as he stated) he drives like a nut case, well, thats not really a manufactures defect!

I'm think'n Dave already know which one it is.

 

[DaveC]

No dog. Fish

come on you can do better than that. Im really dissapointed in you Brown. Listen Im going down there later this week. I want a better plan on my desk by morning

Indeed. I share your view.

I haven't followed Jag for a decade but they used to be the most expensive car to own, and the least reliable, by far, of any manufacturer. Again, I lost track shortly after Ford took over. This is disorienting to say but, back in the day, the thought of a Jag being built to Ford quality levels was a revelation in quality improvement.

Scoop the dog shit from your yard into a paper bag. Take it with you, along with some lighter fluid and a lighter.

If they give you the wire brush treatment, squirt some fluid on the bag, drop it on the dealership floor, and light it.

 

[Tom Brown]

No dog. Fish

come on you can do better than that. Im really dissapointed in you Brown. Listen Im going down there later this week. I want a better plan on my desk by morning

One of the best plans I've ever had, but didn't follow through with, was to get 8 or 10 guys together, have a huge feed of chilly (or burritos, beans, whatever), and then all head over to the offending establishment.

Once there, each guy would take a dump in the toilet without flushing. The idea is to overfill the toilet with mushy shit.

The case where a few of my buddies considered doing this, I offered to be the last guy in. If a place pisses me off enough, I don't mind squatting like an African tribesman above the toilet seat to stack some turds up like a DQ blizzard treat.

 

[DaBank]

DaveC

I just put brakes pads/rotors front and rear on my wifes 2009 XF at 22k miles, on her last 3 cars in the last six years never got over 20k on pads and rotors on my wife cars all but this Jag have been new Mercedes AMG's.Frank

 

[rivermobster]

One of the best plans I've ever had, but didn't follow through with, was to get 8 or 10 guys together, have a huge feed of chilly (or burritos, beans, whatever), and then all head over to the offending establishment.

Once there, each guy would take a dump in the toilet without flushing. The idea is to overfill the toilet with mushy shit.

The case where a few of my buddies considered doing this, I offered to be the last guy in. If a place pisses me off enough, I don't mind squatting like an African tribesman above the toilet seat to stack some turds up like a DQ blizzard treat.

Typical Tom Brown style. I like it. :thumbsup

 

[Tom Brown]

Typical Tom Brown style. I like it. :thumbsup

It's actually a bigger deal than it sounds. What are they going to do? They can't flush; it will just overflow. If they call the police, what are they going to accuse you of? Not flushing?

 

[Zaairman]

If the dealer says no, then leave them an upper decker. No need for 10 guys. :skull

 

[DaveC]

Brown. I like your style....:skull

BTW I think I found my answer. They only got 30,000. LOL


From Car and Driver Long term road test Jaguar XF

"New Pirellis from The Tire Rack added $1912 to the tally and, in what may be a new record for rear brake wear, the XF?s pads were used up after just 30,000 miles and cost $230 to replace. We added to that total with numerous four-wheel alignments and wheel balancing, repairing of bent wheels ($230),....."

 

[rivermobster]

ok let me clarify. So from what I learned so far its the way the car was designed. Its doing what it was designed to do which is wear out the brakes. Lol Not a defect per se, just a poor design.

They changed the design incidently later on:bash:

I will call it a defect because thats my opinion. yours will vary

I actually dont beat this car quite like I beat the predecessor, whose brakes lasted 55,000 not 19,000.

If it is what it is then so be it.... My bad for getting a POS. I will STFU and get back to work to pay for my brakes

Ok, you got me goin, so I went to talk to one of the Jag guys. He was suprised you got that many miles!!! Heavy car, LOTS of HP. Thats about all the brakes last. You actually did better than most, and the Porche guy said their cars get about the same.

Just like sticky (soft) high performance tires, sticky soft brakes work the same way.

He also told me there was a pad upgrade, but it was to address noise issues, not wear.

So prolly your best bet is, to find some good ceriamic pads online, and pop em in yourself. There was a thread on here recently about this, and a few peeps posted about the good brands they found.

I know this wasnt what you wanted to hear, but at least now you know what to do.

 

[DaveC]

see I told ya.... J/K. I figured as much. :bash:

I don't have a lot of acquaintences with these types of cars so I dunno. But I figured the brake pads might be a legit issue. Mainly because they put out massive amounts of dust.

I think the brakes in the CTSV were just different. They lasted longer but were abused.

The tires were gone at 15,000 but I was already used to that. I buy a set every 8-10 months for the last 4 years so I was used to it.

Damn it.:grumble: Oh well. I don't have a problem with the dealer they are just too far away. I will have my local shop handle it mainly due to convenience.

Its just strange the rears went out first and not the front. That has to be something with the onboard nanny.

Thanks RM!!
:thumbsup

Ok, you got me goin, so I went to talk to one of the Jag guys. He was suprised you got that many miles!!! Heavy car, LOTS of HP. Thats about all the brakes last. You actually did better than most, and the Porche guy said their cars get about the same.

Just like sticky (soft) high performance tires, sticky soft brakes work the same way.

He also told me there was a pad upgrade, but it was to address noise issues, not wear.

So prolly your best bet is, to find some good ceriamic pads online, and pop em in yourself. There was a thread on here recently about this, and a few peeps posted about the good brands they found.

I know this wasnt what you wanted to hear, but at least now you know what to do.

 

[rivermobster]

see I told ya.... J/K. I figured as much. :bash:

I don't have a lot of acquaintences with these types of cars so I dunno. But I figured the brake pads might be a legit issue. Mainly because they put out massive amounts of dust.

I think the brakes in the CTSV were just different. They lasted longer but were abused.

The tires were gone at 15,000 but I was already used to that. I buy a set every 8-10 months for the last 4 years so I was used to it.

Damn it.:grumble: Oh well. I don't have a problem with the dealer they are just too far away. I will have my local shop handle it mainly due to convenience.

Its just strange the rears went out first and not the front. That has to be something with the onboard nanny.

Thanks RM!!
:thumbsup

Np. Glad i could help!

I can tell that on almost all the newer import cars, the rears wear out sooner than the fronts. I believe they use smaller pads, so the rears CANT lock up, before the fronts do, and cause the ends to swap out on you. But the draw back is, they wear out faster, due to the smaller pad surface.

I know what your talkin bout on the "nanny" thing, but really dont think thats a factor. The nanny thing has only been around the past few years, rears have been wearing out sooner for much longer than that. It's jus how performance cars work! I'm sure a Real enginer could give you a better answer than me. I jus have to fix the damm things!

:grumble::blah:

 

[Tom Brown]

Its just strange the rears went out first and not the front.

It's not strange at all. That's how traction control works.

According to the Top Gear blog, they test cars for a few days and return them with shredded tires and worn out rear brakes.


It sounds like you've come to the conclusion that owning a Jaguar is a voluntary form of wealth redistribution.

How has the car been otherwise? I haven't followed Jag in a decade but I'd be surprised to hear they haven't improved in the reliability department. My expectation would be that they'd be a pretty decent car these days.

 

[DaveC]

Why yes Brown. I'm very suspicious the liberals are behind my problems here

The car quality has been ok so far. I really expected worse. Lol. Only a couple loose bolts so far. But only 20k miles so time will tell

the jag traction control is much different then my other cars. Seems more sophisticated. Too much of a nanny for me. I havent looked into it much but the nanny seems to apply the brakes alot on the jag

the old CTSV I used to have moved the throttle more and used the brakes less and the sports mode gave me more latitude. I was able to slide the CTSV and I cant slide the jag at all. Kinda defeats the purpose of owning it:thumbsdown

my conclusion is not all stability controls system are the same

 

[rivermobster]

Why yes Brown. I'm very suspicious the liberals are behind my problems here

The car quality has been ok so far. I really expected worse. Lol. Only a couple loose bolts so far. But only 20k miles so time will tell

the jag traction control is much different then my other cars. Seems more sophisticated. Too much of a nanny for me. I havent looked into it much but the nanny seems to apply the brakes alot on the jag

the old CTSV I used to have moved the throttle more and used the brakes less and the sports mode gave me more latitude. I was able to slide the CTSV and I cant slide the jag at all. Kinda defeats the purpose of owning it:thumbsdown

my conclusion is not all stability controls system are the same

These days, if you wanna turn it off Completely, they make it harder to do. The button on the dash only shuts it down so far, not like it used to do.

Take a real good look in your owners manual. There may be a some "top secret" way to do it!

(like holding the button down while you start the car, or some not so obvious step like that)

They dont want people sayin "i hit the button on accident, and now you owe me a new car cause that tree jumped out at me, and there was no way i could avoid it!"

 

[mbrown2]

One of the best plans I've ever had, but didn't follow through with, was to get 8 or 10 guys together, have a huge feed of chilly (or burritos, beans, whatever), and then all head over to the offending establishment.

Once there, each guy would take a dump in the toilet without flushing. The idea is to overfill the toilet with mushy shit.

The case where a few of my buddies considered doing this, I offered to be the last guy in. If a place pisses me off enough, I don't mind squatting like an African tribesman above the toilet seat to stack some turds up like a DQ blizzard treat.

Focking Brown...there is a sig in there somewhere...LOL

 

[Outdrive1]

Why yes Brown. I'm very suspicious the liberals are behind my problems here

The car quality has been ok so far. I really expected worse. Lol. Only a couple loose bolts so far. But only 20k miles so time will tell

the jag traction control is much different then my other cars. Seems more sophisticated. Too much of a nanny for me. I havent looked into it much but the nanny seems to apply the brakes alot on the jag

the old CTSV I used to have moved the throttle more and used the brakes less and the sports mode gave me more latitude. I was able to slide the CTSV and I cant slide the jag at all. Kinda defeats the purpose of owning it:thumbsdown

my conclusion is not all stability controls system are the same

I can't for life of me figure out how to get my 550i to spin the fucken tires either, lol. Even with the DTS button pushed, and in sport mode there is still something going on there. Not that it's the fastest car on the planet, but it is advertised at 400hp, and 400hp should break tires loose.

 

[whiteworks]

I can't for life of me figure out how to get my 550i to spin the fucken tires either, lol. Even with the DTS button pushed, and in sport mode there is still something going on there. Not that it's the fastest car on the planet, but it is advertised at 400hp, and 400hp should break tires loose.

WMC has a technique, you should have him show you:champagne:. Even the security staff at Angels stadium was impressed the first 30 times. Wendy, well not so much

 

[Cigalert]

I can't for life of me figure out how to get my 550i to spin the fucken tires either, lol. Even with the DTS button pushed, and in sport mode there is still something going on there. Not that it's the fastest car on the planet, but it is advertised at 400hp, and 400hp should break tires loose.

Actually it has a start off assist. It's a brake on the drive that holds the car until forward motion is sensed so you don't roll backwards on those monster hills out in the valley. Mine died and got replaced. That thing sounds like a detract panzer when it breaks. But, if you can't smoke the tires you're doing it wrong. Put it in DS and drive the shit out of it and shut it off. Start it up and repeat. Come the third time around with the DTS off you should be down to the belting by noon. The wife will jump your bones, wrapping her legs around you like the wife of a returning soldier when you show her your manly driving capabilities in front of the house. Or she'll react like you just took the boat out without her. I say, roll the dice.

When it comes to brake pads....I have no idea what the beamer gets. The computer says some shit like 35k to have them inspected but since I don't pay for them I don't know. My benz got something stupid like 15k miles out of them. Crossed drilled rotors and pads just for the front my cost straight from the manufacturer was $200. I can't imagine paying for something like that worked into the annual cost.

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

The traction control does use the brakes.

http://www.r1concepts.com/jaguar-xf-2009-brakes.htm

Get the posi-quiet ceramics.:thumbsup

This was the first response.
After 5 pages you guys agree?

 

[Dave Wettlaufer]

R1 Concepts, Inc.
520 E. Jamie Ave.
La Habra, CA 90631
888-R1CONCEPTS

http://www.r1concepts.com/jaguar-xf-2009-brakes-105.10950.htm

Seriously, these guys are great. I have been to their shop. Nice place and friendly knowledgeable staff.

I have 3 pairs of drilled and slotted rotors w/ceramic pads. Love them. I have installed them on a few other cars and everyone has been very happy with them.
Brakes work great and they don't make your wheels dirty!:champagne:
As far as who makes the best pads, you will find that a lot of brands are made by Morse, who was bought by Bosch. Good stuff! Made in USA. They make Posi-Quiet, Friction Master, etc.
http://www.bosch.us/content/language1/html/734_6956.htm

 

[Guest]

Dealership called, and said your front rotors are shot too...

[video=youtube;bAxo4npzYMw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAxo4npzYMw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAxo4npzYMw[/video]

 

[OCMerrill]

I have worked on quite a few British Leyland products. You know why the British drink warm beer?....

 

[DaveC]

LOL. :bash: Just trying to figure it out. Been kinda busy lately working 7 days a week.

It wasn't all that clear from the quick research I did earlier but now it is.

My last car did not have launch control either. So in my mind I was thinking, no way could it wear those brakes out on the new car. LOL that was faulty logic cuz the systems are different.

but the last car wore the rear tires out. This one wears the rear brakes out. Can't win either way.:skull

Truth be told I don't like the way this car drives. The previous one I had without the nanny was more fun. :champagne:

Now I know the nanny not only ruins all the fun but also eats brakes. :rotflmao:

This was the first response.
After 5 pages you guys agree?

Thanks..:thumbsup

I think I'm gonna check out those brakes you recommended!

 

[DaveC]

Do these ceramic pads have any downside? Do they require break-in or warm up???

R1 Concepts, Inc.
520 E. Jamie Ave.
La Habra, CA 90631
888-R1CONCEPTS

http://www.r1concepts.com/jaguar-xf-2009-brakes-105.10950.htm

Seriously, these guys are great. I have been to their shop. Nice place and friendly knowledgeable staff.

I have 3 pairs of drilled and slotted rotors w/ceramic pads. Love them. I have installed them on a few other cars and everyone has been very happy with them.
Brakes work great and they don't make your wheels dirty!:champagne:
As far as who makes the best pads, you will find that a lot of brands are made by Morse, who was bought by Bosch. Good stuff! Made in USA. They make Posi-Quiet, Friction Master, etc.
http://www.bosch.us/content/language1/html/734_6956.htm