ATF RAIDS P80

[Blackmagic94]

You have to ask yourself why someone would by a P80 kit that is not a complete firearm, that must be drilled out, for a cost of roughly $800 retail. A firearm that when complete, is less reliable, less safe , and less accurate. A firearm that attempts to copy a Glock 9mm which in the store can be purchased for about $500. Why someone would purchase an inferior product for $300 more.

I am for the second amendment, but I’m also for the government doing its part to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. They aren’t perfect but they should at least try. The overreach is silly at times, especially in California. They try to enact policies or solutions to problems that don’t exist. Solutions that don’t address the problem. I hate that.

Here, I applaud the ATF for doing its job. Polymer 80 does not pass the common sense test.


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Why is it less accurate, safe and reliable. That’s a stretch of the imagination. It literally uses Glock oem parts as they interchange so there is no difference. Your cost is also wrong as well. They can be built for around 500 dollars which is the same or less then most glocks oems. You don’t have to be a criminal to own one of these. That it just anti gun people being dramatic about things. You probably think that Randy weaver and the Branch Davidians deserved what the atf and fbi did as well.


free means free. And shall not be infringed goes the sameway. Eat a dick if you can’t understand that.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

As this is playing out it is kind of obvious what has happened.

P80 got caught speeding. They were selling the BBS kits without first running it past the ATF or if they did the ATF has forgotten about it. Someone at the ATF finally woke up from their nap and went looking. That this all went down after Biden was elected I'll leave to others to discuss.

Lots of rumors out there about raids and such but I haven't seen any concrete evidence that the ATF is breaking down people's doors looking for these things. However, if I had purchased one I'd go ahead and serialize the frame and call it a day. Then it is all legal and shit. I imagine what is going on right now is the list of buyers is getting compared to databases to find the low hanging fruit.

 

[CobraDave]

Why is it less accurate, safe and reliable. That’s a stretch of the imagination. It literally uses Glock oem parts as they interchange so there is no difference. Your cost is also wrong as well. They can be built for around 500 dollars which is the same or less then most glocks oems. You don’t have to be a criminal to own one of these. That it just anti gun people being dramatic about things. You probably think that Randy weaver and the Branch Davidians deserved what the atf and fbi did as well.


free means free. And shall not be infringed goes the sameway. Eat a dick if you can’t understand that.

Eat a dick? Ok. Grow up. I don’t think it’s a stretch of the imagination to say Glock, which has tested and proven their firearms worldwide, supplying military and just about every law enforcement agency on the planet handguns, is a better manufacturer than someone who is drilling the thing at home. Period.

Of course they are interchangeable because they are copying them. Because it can take a Glock slide or use the same barrel doesn’t make it a Glock.

Show me a $500 kit.

We obviously have a difference in opinion and I don’t care to change yours. Mine is this. I don’t support zero regulation in relation to firearms. Guns should be serialized and registered. I don’t think felons should possess them. Event the second amendment isn’t written to allow carte blanche ownership of everything firearms.


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[Xtrmwakeboarder]

You have to ask yourself why someone would by a P80 kit that is not a complete firearm, that must be drilled out, for a cost of roughly $800 retail. A firearm that when complete, is less reliable, less safe , and less accurate. A firearm that attempts to copy a Glock 9mm which in the store can be purchased for about $500. Why someone would purchase an inferior product for $300 more.

I am for the second amendment, but I’m also for the government doing its part to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. They aren’t perfect but they should at least try. The overreach is silly at times, especially in California. They try to enact policies or solutions to problems that don’t exist. Solutions that don’t address the problem. I hate that.

Here, I applaud the ATF for doing its job. Polymer 80 does not pass the common sense test.


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Why do some people customize their own cars? Why do some people do their own remodels? Because they can and want to. This is America.

My buddy is starting a gunsmithing company. This was a perfect project for him. Why buy a factory glock and then replace it with a better trigger, barrel, sights, and then send it out for custom stippling and slide serrations? This is cheaper, he learns how the firearm works, and he gets to spend some of his downtime working on his hobby. Good enough reasons for you?

 

[Blackmagic94]

Eat a dick? Ok. Grow up. I don’t think it’s a stretch of the imagination to say Glock, which has tested and proven their firearms worldwide, supplying military and just about every law enforcement agency on the planet handguns, is a better manufacturer than someone who is drilling the thing at home. Period.

Of course they are interchangeable because they are copying them. Because it can take a Glock slide or use the same barrel doesn’t make it a Glock.

Show me a $500 kit.

We obviously have a difference in opinion and I don’t care to change yours. Mine is this. I don’t support zero regulation in relation to firearms. Guns should be serialized and registered. I don’t think felons should possess them. Event the second amendment isn’t written to allow carte blanche ownership of everything firearms.


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you understand a serial number can be assigned to them? Guess you didn’t do your homework. Almost everything you said is a shade of wrong. Ponder that one

 

[CobraDave]

Why do some people customize their own cars? Why do some people do their own remodels? Because they can and want to. This is America.

My buddy is starting a gunsmithing company. This was a perfect project for him. Why buy a factory glock and then replace it with a better trigger, barrel, sights, and then send it out for custom stippling and slide serrations? This is cheaper, he learns how the firearm works, and he gets to spend some of his downtime working on his hobby. Good enough reasons for you?

But originally when the car was made, it was legally allowed to do so, then sold to the customer, registered annually and driven by person with a drivers license. Customizing firearms is not the issue here.

The difference is your buddy I would assume, is doing things legally. The firearms he is customizing are possessed legally. This company’s business plan is to get someone to purchase an 80 percent firearm under the loophole that they are just parts, then not serialize them and not care who buys them or what they do with them. These kits are made to have unserialized, unregistered guns on the street.

There is not a large market for good people to buy a build your own kit at an increase in cost, or even a compatible cost, for an inferior product. Yeah some might, but not a majority .

So no, not good enough reasons for me. What else you got? I’m going to need more than “because this is America”.


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[CobraDave]

you understand a serial number can be assigned to them? Guess you didn’t do your homework. Almost everything you said is a shade of wrong. Ponder that one

I know this and the good people will. But others will not. Looking at them closely it shows just a model number and the metal plate underneath the lower where Glock puts their serial number, is just a blank metal plate.

P80 should be ashamed for the amount of illegal guns they put on the street in the US.


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[was thatguy]

But originally when the car was made, it was legally allowed to do so, then sold to the customer, registered annually and driven by person with a drivers license. Customizing firearms is not the issue here.

The difference is your buddy I would assume, is doing things legally. The firearms he is customizing are possessed legally. This company’s business plan is to get someone to purchase an 80 percent firearm under the loophole that they are just parts, then not serialize them and not care who buys them or what they do with them. These kits are made to have unserialized, unregistered guns on the street.

There is not a large market for good people to buy a build your own kit at an increase in cost, or even a compatible cost, for an inferior product. Yeah some might, but not a majority .

So no, not good enough reasons for me. What else you got? I’m going to need more than “because this is America”.


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Your points have merit...but you do realize that the vast majority of “legally owned” firearms are not registered anywhere, right?
In fact, with certain exceptions like class 3, it is specifically PROHIBITED for a federal registration database to be maintained or assembled.
Your State has its own unconstitutional restrictions that make it easy to fall into a conditioning of acceptance of registration. I lived there almost 20 years and understand.

The federal background check does not specify anything beyond handgun, rifle, or gun part (lowers).

The whole “unregistered guns on the street” argument is strictly a CA and NY mindset.

It’s reason #146 I moved out of Kommiefornistan

 

[was thatguy]

I know this and the good people will. But others will not. Looking at them closely it shows just a model number and the metal plate underneath the lower where Glock puts their serial number, is just a blank metal plate.

P80 should be ashamed for the amount of illegal guns they put on the street in the US.


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“Illegal” says who?

 

[CobraDave]

Here is some homework

Feds raid 'ghost gun' maker whose products they say are linked to 'hundreds of crimes' | CNN

On Thursday, federal agents armed with a search warrant raided 'ghost gun' maker Polymer80 based on suspicion that it was illegally manufacturing and distributing firearms.

www.cnn.com

Ghost-Gun Company Raided by Federal Agents

ATF agents raided one of the nation’s largest manufacturers of ghost-gun parts, a sign that federal law enforcement is cracking down on kits that allow people to make weapons at home.

www.wsj.com

ATF raided Dayton-based gun manufacturing company for allegedly selling ghost-guns

ATF agents raided Polymer80 on Thursday. Their alleged crimes include failing to pay taxes and not conducting background checks on customers.

www.rgj.com

AG Racine Sues Gun Manufacturer Polymer80 for Illegally Advertising and Selling Untraceable Firearms to District Consumers

oag.dc.gov

Ghost Guns Are Everywhere in California

Feds say nearly a third of firearms recovered in the state are homemade, unserialized, and untraceable.

www.thetrace.org

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[CobraDave]

“Illegal” says who?

Well the law of course.


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[LowRiver2]

I know this and the good people will. But others will not. Looking at them closely it shows just a model number and the metal plate underneath the lower where Glock puts their serial number, is just a blank metal plate.

P80 should be ashamed for the amount of illegal guns they put on the street in the US.


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You sure are talking a lot of “Cop Shit” in this thread....
ATF are Federal Cops

As a result of your posts, I am reaching out to my LA area ATF agents to get their take on P80’s and confiscations in so cal. I’m curious as to what they’ve encountered

 

[was thatguy]

Well the law of course.


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The ATF is not a court.

 

[havasujeeper]

What about the thousands of folks who purchased these 80% guns and completed them, when it was perfectly LEGAL to own and purchase?

What about the hundreds of thousands of folks who purchased AR-15's, without the Kamifornia Bullet Button, expandable stock, or attached bi or tripods?

What is legal today, and the government makes illegal tomorrow, are you OK with busting down doors?

Stand by folks. Kamal Toe and Sleepy Joe have more to come.

 

[CobraDave]

You sure are talking a lot of “Cop Shit” in this thread....
ATF are Federal Cops

As a result of your posts, I am reaching out to my LA area ATF agents to get their take on P80’s and confiscations in so cal. I’m curious as to what they’ve encountered

I’d say you could pull from your own experience but I’m sure it’s been awhile.


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[was thatguy]

Here is some homework

Feds raid 'ghost gun' maker whose products they say are linked to 'hundreds of crimes' | CNN

On Thursday, federal agents armed with a search warrant raided 'ghost gun' maker Polymer80 based on suspicion that it was illegally manufacturing and distributing firearms.

www.cnn.com

Ghost-Gun Company Raided by Federal Agents

ATF agents raided one of the nation’s largest manufacturers of ghost-gun parts, a sign that federal law enforcement is cracking down on kits that allow people to make weapons at home.

www.wsj.com

ATF raided Dayton-based gun manufacturing company for allegedly selling ghost-guns

ATF agents raided Polymer80 on Thursday. Their alleged crimes include failing to pay taxes and not conducting background checks on customers.

www.rgj.com

AG Racine Sues Gun Manufacturer Polymer80 for Illegally Advertising and Selling Untraceable Firearms to District Consumers

oag.dc.gov

Ghost Guns Are Everywhere in California

Feds say nearly a third of firearms recovered in the state are homemade, unserialized, and untraceable.

www.thetrace.org

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Lol!
If I want to read a bunch of liberal bullshit I’ll just search the WSJ on my own...

Lol, CNN, WSJ, etc...yeah, I wouldn’t call that homework.
Get out of CA more often, it’s great.

 

[CobraDave]

What about the thousands of folks who purchased these 80% guns and completed them, when it was perfectly LEGAL to own and purchase?

That is a valid point. My view is the damage P80 has done in other ways should not allow them to operate any longer. Those other people will have to use different means of purchasing.


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[LowRiver2]

I’d say you could pull from your own experience but I’m sure it’s been awhile.


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On what type of guns are being pulled off the streets by the fed? You are correct
Explosives ? Try me son, my wheel house.
As for LAPD and guns confiscated : P80’’s are NOT the majority of type or make.
Pretty much any brand of 9/40 cal pistol, a few AR’s , most of which were stolen in burglaries with homeowners that didn’t have said guns in safes

Next

 

[was thatguy]

What about the thousands of folks who purchased these 80% guns and completed them, when it was perfectly LEGAL to own and purchase?

Theyll have to scratch a number on them and pay $200 for the tag...or not...since they don’t exist.

 

[CobraDave]

So if one’s opinion is anyone should be able to own a gun and not have any record of it; I respect the opinion but don’t agree.

From a public policy stand point, even though legitimate sales take place, I refuse to turn a blind eye to sales of these kits to people who shouldn’t have them.


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[Xtrmwakeboarder]

But originally when the car was made, it was legally allowed to do so, then sold to the customer, registered annually and driven by person with a drivers license. Customizing firearms is not the issue here.

The difference is your buddy I would assume, is doing things legally. The firearms he is customizing are possessed legally. This company’s business plan is to get someone to purchase an 80 percent firearm under the loophole that they are just parts, then not serialize them and not care who buys them or what they do with them. These kits are made to have unserialized, unregistered guns on the street.

There is not a large market for good people to buy a build your own kit at an increase in cost, or even a compatible cost, for an inferior product. Yeah some might, but not a majority .

So no, not good enough reasons for me. What else you got? I’m going to need more than “because this is America”.


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How are the P80 kits not sold legally? From what I understand, there is/was nothing illegal about selling the kits.

Again, it’s not an inferior product, if built correctly.

You’re argument is if a tool CAN be used for evil then it should be unavailable to the vast majority of law abiding citizens. That’s an extremely slippery slope. And instead of “because America” then how about “because the constitution allows it?”

 

[LowRiver2]

 

[was thatguy]

That is a valid point. My view is the damage P80 has done in other ways should not allow them to operate any longer. Those other people will have to use different means of purchasing.


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Im curious about your argument now

What sort of criminals do you suggest are actually building 80%er’s?

Ive known a few criminals in my day.
Drug dealers mostly, but a few killers as well. They always had glocks and shit, hell they had bags of guns.
One thing that is true everywhere from coast to coast is that guns are easy to buy anywhere at anytime by anyone.

I could be out of touch with today’s gangsters, but it seems unlikely that building 80’s as guns for criminal enterprise is not really a good ROI?

 

[Blackmagic94]

I know this and the good people will. But others will not. Looking at them closely it shows just a model number and the metal plate underneath the lower where Glock puts their serial number, is just a blank metal plate.

P80 should be ashamed for the amount of illegal guns they put on the street in the US.


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They haven’t put any illegal firearms on the market. They aren’t even a firearm manufacturer.

should we ban 3D printers, mills, files and hacksaws while we are at it because you can build the same things with those.

 

[Blackmagic94]

View attachment 954102

Bomb squad has the right idea!!

 

[CobraDave]

Well this article in 2019 stated ATF reported thirty
Percent of all firearms recovered in California were ghost guns, they didn’t specify brand.

And Los Angeles doesn’t keep track of Ghost Gun data.


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[was thatguy]

So if one’s opinion is anyone should be able to own a gun and not have any record of it; I respect the opinion but don’t agree.

From a public policy stand point, even though legitimate sales take place, I refuse to turn a blind eye to sales of these kits to people who shouldn’t have them.


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On second thought, stay in CA.

 

[CobraDave]

Well this article in 2019 stated ATF reported thirty
Percent of all firearms recovered in California were ghost guns, they didn’t specify brand.

And Los Angeles doesn’t keep track of Ghost Gun data.

Ghost Guns Are Everywhere in California

Feds say nearly a third of firearms recovered in the state are homemade, unserialized, and untraceable.

www.thetrace.org

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[Blackmagic94]

So if one’s opinion is anyone should be able to own a gun and not have any record of it; I respect the opinion but don’t agree.

From a public policy stand point, even though legitimate sales take place, I refuse to turn a blind eye to sales of these kits to people who shouldn’t have them.


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Thank god you don’t make any policy then.

You understand that from 1776 to 1999 there was no registration of any long gun sales new in the USA until after then. None. Omg 200 million rifles and shotguns off the books. Omg. The huge Manatee of it.

 

[CobraDave]

They haven’t put any illegal firearms on the market. They aren’t even a firearm manufacturer.

should we ban 3D printers, mills, files and hacksaws while we are at it because you can build the same things with those.

You come up with the most asinine arguments.


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[LowRiver2]

Well this article in 2019 stated ATF reported thirty
Percent of all firearms recovered in California were ghost guns, they didn’t specify brand.

And Los Angeles doesn’t keep track of Ghost Gun data.
Seriously:
What is your profession ?

Pretty sure you don’t work LAPD, so how would YOU know if LAPD keeps records of a “ghost gun”?

By Captain Google?


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[was thatguy]

Well this article in 2019 stated ATF reported thirty
Percent of all firearms recovered in California were ghost guns, they didn’t specify brand.

And Los Angeles doesn’t keep track of Ghost Gun data.


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I find that easy to believe. I’d like a further explanation of “recovered” though.
Recovered implies they were lost?

“Unintended consequences”...the hallmark of dem politics.

Eventually ALL guns in CA will be ghost. Lol

 

[LowRiver2]

You come up with the most asinine arguments.


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And you need a few more sources than what’s on your desk top

 

[Blackmagic94]

You come up with the most asinine arguments.


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No it’s not. You understand people make ar15 lowers in the same process with the above tools with zero registration. You think a 80% Glock lower is the whole market. You are mistaken.

 

[Blackmagic94]

Hahah 30%. What a jaded fucking number to prove their false point


The us government was told by the Mexican government during Obama that 90% of all recovered firearms in Mexico were from USA sales illegally imported to Mexico.

What they forgot to tell you in that stat was the following.

90% of all weapons that were suspected of USA manufactured was the real state.

not 90% of all weapons.

Now apply that same false numbers to your 2019 atf bs report used to push a ban on a non problem.

 

[CobraDave]

I quoted the link. Like it or not, the internet has pretty good data. What would be a better way? Going door to door on my horse and carriage? Should I discount facts on the internet because another guy on the internet says so?

Anyway, I digress.


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[Sleek-Jet]

View attachment 954102

There was a time in the not so distant past where you could mail order an M1 (our grandfather's weapons of war) and it'd be delivered via the USPO to your front door. No questions asked.

 

[havasujeeper]

After retiring with full honors from 25 years of law enforcement, my department gave me my duty weapon to keep.... my Glock 22, and 4 Hi-cap magazines. Actually not high capacity, but normal magazines. For a few years, they determined that my normal capacity magazines were illegal for myself to own. Now they made an exemption, and I can legally carry the gun and magazines I used for most of my career. Today they are legal, yesterday they were illegal, tomorrow they are legal, the day after they are again illegal. Seems rediculous to me.

 

[Waffles]

You have to ask yourself why someone would by a P80 kit that is not a complete firearm, that must be drilled out, for a cost of roughly $800 retail. A firearm that when complete, is less reliable, less safe , and less accurate. A firearm that attempts to copy a Glock 9mm which in the store can be purchased for about $500. Why someone would purchase an inferior product for $300 more.

I am for the second amendment, but I’m also for the government doing its part to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. They aren’t perfect but they should at least try. The overreach is silly at times, especially in California. They try to enact policies or solutions to problems that don’t exist. Solutions that don’t address the problem. I hate that.

Here, I applaud the ATF for doing its job. Polymer 80 does not pass the common sense test.


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Quoted for posterity because you clearly don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about

 

[Blackmagic94]

I quoted the link. Like it or not, the internet has pretty good data. What would be a better way? Going door to door on my horse and carriage? Should I discount facts on the internet because another guy on the internet says so?

Anyway, I digress.


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What you are missing is people present data in a slant for political purposes and you don’t understand that the data presented is jaded


just like you don’t understand a CNC mill or 3D printer to this question

 

[LowRiver2]

I quoted the link. Like it or not, the internet has pretty good data. What would be a better way? Going door to door on my horse and carriage? Should I discount facts on the internet because another guy on the internet says so?

Anyway, I digress.


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Well
You discount the facts presented by a lot of us here, so there’s that

 

[Blackmagic94]

I also love the lefts theory

If there are no guns there will be no crime


yeah cause they won’t use a knife or a bomb or their bare hands to kill. So let’s just limit how law abiding good people can defend themselves against criminals and dictators.

 

[Waffles]

They haven’t put any illegal firearms on the market. They aren’t even a firearm manufacturer.

should we ban 3D printers, mills, files and hacksaws while we are at it because you can build the same things with those.

I can’t wait till they raid grainger for selling the material and supplies to be able to make those super scary untraceable ghost guns lol

 

[Blackmagic94]

I can’t wait till they raid grainger for selling the material and supplies to be able to make those super scary untraceable ghost guns lol

He is probably complete unaware that the ATF once told them what they were doing was legal but changed their mind when they included a barrel slide and parts kit in the same box after the fact.