ATF RAIDS P80

[Waffles]

Polymer80 Raided By ATF In An Apparent Move Against 'Ghost Guns'

BREAKING: Polymer80 Raided By ATF In An Apparent Move Against 'Ghost Guns' - Nevada-based firearm company Polymer80 was raided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) yesterday in an apparent move to against so-called 'Ghost Guns'.

www.thefirearmblog.com

What, are you potatoes asleep? The ATF just raided Polymer 80 to collect their files and now call 80% lower kits "guns".

Where were you when the ATF went over the red line?

 

[mjc]

can't read the article

 

[rivrrts429]

View attachment 951007

Ghost-Gun Company Raided by Federal Agents

ATF agents raided one of the nation’s largest manufacturers of ghost-gun parts, a sign that federal law enforcement is cracking down on kits that allow people to make weapons at home.

www.wsj.com

What, are you potatoes asleep? The ATF just raided Polymer 80 to collect their files and now call 80% lower kits "guns".

Where were you when the ATF went over the red line?

Doesn’t surprise me after Obama and Biden had them running guns across the border.

 

[Cdog]

This is why it makes more sense to buy private party now while you can. HG’s Ar’s. What ever. The moment you make a firearm out of these kits you’re supposed to serialize the firearm and register it as a firearm with the ATF.

why would anybody go through any of this bullshit when they could just buy a lower or fire arm right now private party and move on with your life?

Years back when east com Block AK-47 kits were readily available for hundred to $300 they were guys getting pinched by the ATF for having build parties. The guy with the mill welder or tooling got busted. Definitely not worth the hassle

 

[Racey]

The ATF has a history of taking action against companies for non-compliance only to be slapped down in court later....

Sucks for these companies who have to expend a lot of resources just to defend themselves.

This is why it makes more sense to buy private party now while you can. HG’s Ar’s. What ever. The moment you make a firearm out of these kits you’re supposed to serialize the firearm and register it as a firearm with the ATF.

That's not True, only in CA (maybe NY) do you have to serialize and register a homebuilt.

You cannot manufacture them for sale, you can however legally sell a used homebuilt firearm, but if you get caught selling 20 used homebuilt guns a year you are gonna be in deep shit probably.

 

[Waffles]

can't read the article

post updated with a non paywall friendly link

 

[Waffles]

The ATF has a history of taking action against companies for non-compliance only to be slapped down in court later....

Sucks for these companies who have to expend a lot of resources just to defend themselves.



That's not True, only in CA (maybe NY) do you have to serialize and register a homebuilt.

You cannot manufacture them for sale, you can however legally sell a used homebuilt firearm, but if you get caught selling 20 used homebuilt guns a year you are gonna be in deep shit probably.

They just did this shit with companies manufacturing pistol braces

 

[Racey]

They just did this shit with companies manufacturing pistol braces

Exactly, they tried going after Q for his Honey Badger Pistol, because they dont understand their own laws and measured brace length to trigger at an angle, not parallel to the barrel bore.

Honey Badger® by Q - Pistol

The Honey Badger Pistol by Q®: Your new EDC has arrived! The 7" 300 BLK Honey Badger® is now available with our proprietary Pistol Stabilizing Brace®, made for Q® by our friends at SB Tactical™. Pistol orders will be fulfilled AFTER current rifles are filled. If you wish to convert your current...

www.liveqordie.com

 

[Waffles]

This is why it makes more sense to buy private party now while you can. HG’s Ar’s. What ever. The moment you make a firearm out of these kits you’re supposed to serialize the firearm and register it as a firearm with the ATF.

why would anybody go through any of this bullshit when they could just buy a lower or fire arm right now private party and move on with your life?

Years back when east com Block AK-47 kits were readily available for hundred to $300 they were guys getting pinched by the ATF for having build parties. The guy with the mill welder or tooling got busted. Definitely not worth the hassle

i think the line gets blurred when it comes to milling parties. Don’t quote me on this but I remember hearing about the atf cracking down on milling parties here in SoCal. You’d go to the shop, set your own shit up and push a button on a cnc to get your lower for a small fee.

 

[Racey]

i think the line gets blurred when it comes to milling parties. Don’t quote me on this but I remember hearing about the atf cracking down on milling parties here in SoCal. You’d go to the shop, set your own shit up and push a button on a cnc to get your lower for a small fee.

Yeah if there is money changing hands you are asking for big trouble.

 

[Blackmagic94]

View attachment 951007

Polymer80 Raided By ATF In An Apparent Move Against 'Ghost Guns'

BREAKING: Polymer80 Raided By ATF In An Apparent Move Against 'Ghost Guns' - Nevada-based firearm company Polymer80 was raided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) yesterday in an apparent move to against so-called 'Ghost Guns'.

www.thefirearmblog.com

What, are you potatoes asleep? The ATF just raided Polymer 80 to collect their files and now call 80% lower kits "guns".

Where were you when the ATF went over the red line?

hold on, not yet


They raided them for the complete kits where it was a P80 kit, slide, barrel and upper and lower parts kit in one big box. But yes it still sucks


thats why i never bought any of mine directly from them, AND I LOST ALL OF MINE IN MY TRAGEDIC JET BOTE CRASH

 

[sintax]

i think the line gets blurred when it comes to milling parties. Don’t quote me on this but I remember hearing about the atf cracking down on milling parties here in SoCal. You’d go to the shop, set your own shit up and push a button on a cnc to get your lower for a small fee.

yea, logic being, "you didnt program the machine". So therefore you didnt "build" it. I dont think P80 violated any laws. The ATF has a history of waffling on their own ruling and not understanding their own rules.

 

[Shlbyntro]

I buy my stripped lowers the fair and legal way for the ridiculous price to avoid the hassle. Then I usually buy whole upper kits and then a trigger kit. Ive gotten pretty good at it to considering I keep losing them in boating accidents too

 

[Blackmagic94]

I buy my stripped lowers the fair and legal way for the ridiculous price to avoid the hassle. Then I usually buy whole upper kits and then a trigger kit. Ive gotten pretty good at it to considering I keep losing them in boating accidents too

Your level of lost is nothing like a 80% kit, 3d printer is gonna go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[Waffles]

hold on, not yet


They raided them for the complete kits where it was a P80 kit, slide, barrel and upper and lower parts kit in one big box. But yes it still sucks


thats why i never bought any of mine directly from them, AND I LOST ALL OF MINE IN MY TRAGEDIC JET BOTE CRASH

Im still not sure as to what law was broken here. Build kits get sold and shipped as kits by multiple companies from what ive seen.
Whats funny is, i was looking at a kit that 80 percent arms has the other day and they have this disclaimer at the bottom of their stuff.

"Due to recently changed ATF regulations, we cannot legally include the jig or frame rails with the GST-9 frame. The jig and GST-9 frame must be purchased on our website as two separate items. Each jig includes one set of GST-9 frame rails. You will need to purchase one jig for every GST-9 frame you plan to build. Frame rails are ONLY included with the jig, not with the 80% lower itself. "

lol wat

 

[Blackmagic94]

yea, logic being, "you didnt program the machine". So therefore you didnt "build" it. I dont think P80 violated any laws. The ATF has a history of waffling on their own ruling and not understanding their own rules.

No the ATF has a history of creating mandates and laws without the legal or congressional authority to do that under the guise of interpretation of the law.

 

[LowRiver2]

 

[DLC]

I understand the kit, but why.... make it 2 purchases and you way way way in the clear!

the company will go bankrupt with lawyer fees before it gets vindicated

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I understand the kit, but why.... make it 2 purchases and you way way way in the clear!

the company will go bankrupt with lawyer fees before it gets vindicated

I think that's the point.

And it's money to build one, I'm already above the cost of an off the shelf glock with mine.

Criminals have easier avenue to firearms than buying a kit. But "ghost gun" sounds scarier than "home assembled".

 

[SKIDMARC]

I would never buy a gun under those circumstances. The risk is not worth the reward to me. I just buy brand new from a shop. No issues.

 

[CobraDave]

These P80’s are everywhere and in the hands of criminals who can’t buy guns legally. I read an article that the majority of guns taken from people who were arrested in Southern California were Polymer 80’s.

I support the ATF!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lbhsbz]

These P80’s are everywhere and in the hands of criminals who can’t buy guns legally. I read an article that the majority of guns taken from people who were arrested in Southern California were Polymer 80’s.

I support the ATF!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The P80s are a bit of a stretch as an 80% deal....you have to drill 3 holes and do about 2 minutes of dremel work to make it a functioning firearm. I’m torn on this one.

80% shit should require a significant expense in jigs/tooling, to deter the dickheads and inspire to the hobby gunsmith.

 

[Blackmagic94]

The P80s are a bit of a stretch as an 80% deal....you have to drill 3 holes and do about 2 minutes of dremel work to make it a functioning firearm. I’m torn on this one.

80% shit should require a significant expense in jigs/tooling, to deter the dickheads and inspire to the hobby gunsmith.

When did you take a knee to the king? Shall not be infringed dude.

 

[Waffles]

I think that's the point.

And it's money to build one, I'm already above the cost of an off the shelf glock with mine.

Criminals have easier avenue to firearms than buying a kit. But "ghost gun" sounds scarier than "home assembled".

It can easily be argued that those that get into 80%'ers, dont do it to have stock platforms. That being said, you could probably build a custom from the ground up for cheaper than what it would cost you to modify an off the shelf platform.

These P80’s are everywhere and in the hands of criminals who can’t buy guns legally. I read an article that the majority of guns taken from people who were arrested in Southern California were Polymer 80’s.

I support the ATF!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yikes.
Last i checked, criminals never gave a fuck about buying guns legally and wouldve gotten their hands on said guns regardless if P80 existed or not.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

It can easily be argued that those that get into 80%'ers, dont do it to have stock platforms. That being said, you could probably build a custom from the ground up for cheaper than what it would cost you to modify an off the shelf platfform

Yeah, probably. I'm doing it just to satisfy my own curiosity. I already take them all apart and put them back together again as a matter of course.

For the record, I bought the P80 Glock lower and am slowly sourcing parts. All I got for the purchase price was a hunk of plastic and some rails.

 

[Blackmagic94]

Bullshit that the vast majority of arrestees are using P80s



There are only 2 cases the state of Cali submitted to the ATF on the issue, a kid who shot a school and the dude who clipped the 2 LACSDs this year, 2 cases


out of how many arrests with firearms in the whole state, 100,000s? 10,000s?



Thats like saying a criminal was arrested with a stolen gun, oh no ban guns.

 

[CobraDave]

Bullshit that the vast majority of arrestees are using P80s



There are only 2 cases the state of Cali submitted to the ATF on the issue, a kid who shot a school and the dude who clipped the 2 LACSDs this year, 2 cases


out of how many arrests with firearms in the whole state, 100,000s? 10,000s?



Thats like saying a criminal was arrested with a stolen gun, oh no ban guns.

Not bullshit. P80 flooded SOCal with them. Exploiting loopholes. No serial numbers, markings, nothing. Anyone can buy them. It includes tools to make them operate.

If they want to make guns, by all means, go ahead. But serialize them and sell them like every other gun manufacturer does. If criminal wants a gun he will get one - not all the time. With P80, it’s 100 percent of the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CobraDave]

Bullshit that the vast majority of arrestees are using P80s



There are only 2 cases the state of Cali submitted to the ATF on the issue, a kid who shot a school and the dude who clipped the 2 LACSDs this year, 2 cases


out of how many arrests with firearms in the whole state, 100,000s? 10,000s?



Thats like saying a criminal was arrested with a stolen gun, oh no ban guns.

Two cases?! You have no idea what your talking about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dspracing]

These P80’s are everywhere and in the hands of criminals who can’t buy guns legally. I read an article that the majority of guns taken from people who were arrested in Southern California were Polymer 80’s. I support the ATF! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I went to a gunshow a year or so back and that was the first time I was introduced to P80. Having previously only had knowledge of 80% AR lowers which would take a bit of doing to complete, I couldn’t believe you could walk out the door with one of those gun kits, complete it in the parking lot with the most basic of hand tools and have a complete functioning gun within minutes. Walking out the door there were lines of shady characters waiting to come in.

I’m not for infringing on any of our rights but the P80 never sat well with me. It’s just way too easy. I follow my local Upland PD on Facebook and every few days they are posting about busting guys with P80s. The number of new guns now made easily obtainable to the criminal community is something we will not be able to recover from.

 

[pkrrvr619]

I went to a gunshow a year or so back and that was the first time I was introduced to P80. Having previously only had knowledge of 80% AR lowers which would take a bit of doing to complete, I couldn’t believe you could walk out the door with one of those gun kits, complete it in the parking lot with the most basic of hand tools and have a complete functioning gun within minutes. Walking out the door there were lines of shady characters waiting to come in.

I’m not for infringing on any of our rights but the P80 never sat well with me. It’s just way too easy. I follow my local Upland PD on Facebook and every few days they are posting about busting guys with P80s. The number of new guns now made easily obtainable to the criminal community is something we will not be able to recover from.

with 3D printing of guns now getting more traction too I’m afraid the genie is out of the bottle.

 

[dspracing]

with 3D printing of guns now getting more traction too I’m afraid the genie is out of the bottle.

not all sources of homemade guns can or should be stopped. However, there are FAR fewer criminals willing or able to print guns at home and acquire the skills and parts to complete it. I’m only against the packaged kits readily available on the shelves.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I went to a gunshow a year or so back and that was the first time I was introduced to P80. Having previously only had knowledge of 80% AR lowers which would take a bit of doing to complete, I couldn’t believe you could walk out the door with one of those gun kits, complete it in the parking lot with the most basic of hand tools and have a complete functioning gun within minutes. Walking out the door there were lines of shady characters waiting to come in.

I’m not for infringing on any of our rights but the P80 never sat well with me. It’s just way too easy. I follow my local Upland PD on Facebook and every few days they are posting about busting guys with P80s. The number of new guns now made easily obtainable to the criminal community is something we will not be able to recover from.

At what rate are they busting people with other makes of firearms? Or do they just report the P80?

 

[Blackmagic94]

Why did cobra delete his posts. Hmmm

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Not bullshit. P80 flooded SOCal with them. Exploiting loopholes. No serial numbers, markings, nothing. Anyone can buy them. It includes tools to make them operate.

If they want to make guns, by all means, go ahead. But serialize them and sell them like every other gun manufacturer does. If criminal wants a gun he will get one - not all the time. With P80, it’s 100 percent of the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m inclined to believe your first paragraph. Buddy has been taking a lot of these off of the streets for the last couple of weeks, along with a surprising amount of cans...

Edit: For the second paragraph I have to say “Shall not be infringed” It’s a double edged sword but it is what it is.

 

[rivrrts429]

You can tell who lives in California versus the rest of the country lol

 

[Blackmagic94]

It doesn’t include any tools. It includes two drill bits. It’s doesn’t include the drill. It doesn’t include any kind of tool or tool bit to remove the extra material on the rail area or the recoil spring area.

it is far easier to build then an 80% ar15 lower receiver.

 

[CoolCruzin]

All I can say is there is a hell of a lot of home built guns out there.
Everyone with a mill made some .
And more than what they can finish afford to assemble

 

[Blackmagic94]

Well here is the problem

An officer or agents take on the problem is jaded by default.


all they see is criminals. So there for all 80s are only used in crimes. They don’t see the total amount of production and the lawful people that own them as they don’t deal with lawful people on the regular. So they get a jaded opinion about who uses it and why.

A very good perfect real world example of this would be this. A good friend of mine before he became a US marshal worked for the US Bureau of land management in their dispatch office during doing season on temporary work for them. He has never been to Glamis in his life but if you ask him about Glamis it’s a place full of lawlessness and accidents left and right yet he doesn’t understand that there’s another hundred thousand people that are there that are abiding by the rules and not getting in trouble or not hurting people but because all he ever did was take calls all the crimes that we’re going on his opinion is that it’s a terrible place. Couldn’t be further from the truth

 

[Waffles]

Aaaaand there it is....

It's all fun and games till the atf shoots your dog . While its calmly walking through a hallway. In search of a buy build shoot kit . That's within your rights to own . But yet they still want it or they will kill you to get it.

God speed gents. It’s only going to get worse under the Biden administration with
Becerra at the helm.

ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

GHOSTED: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits - This morning, an anonymous TFB reader provide additional information pointing to the ATF visiting end users and are requesting the forfeiture of certain Polymer80 kits.

www.thefirearmblog.com

“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws.”
– Ayn Rand

 

[76sanger]

Well the fact of the matter is that it should not ever matter what a company or you decide what to do when it comes to arms. It should be none of the ATF's fucking business if the company is building (kits) or whole damn guns. The second amendment gives you/me/us the right to defend ourselves from the "tyrannical" government over stating their bounds on civil liberties. To do so companies should not ever be raided that make and distribute guns and parts for guns! The "laws" that have been passed to squelch the use of guns, to buy guns, to buy parts for guns is directly opposing what the second amendment is about. Keeping us safe and free from an incredulous corrupt and socialistic "communist"government.

 

[Waffles]

it is far easier to build then an 80% ar15 lower receiver.

I think this is what people fail to realize. The jigs some of these companies are producing take the guesswork out of EVERYTHING now. Any fool can buy a jig, go to hf and buy a router, and start popping these out by the hundreds.

 

[Blackmagic94]

I think this is what people fail to realize. The jigs some of these companies are producing take the guesswork out of EVERYTHING now. Any fool can buy a jig, go to hf and buy a router, and start popping these out by the hundreds.

Have you actually built one?

 

[Waffles]

Have you actually built one?

I plead the fifth

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Aaaaand there it is....

It's all fun and games till the atf shoots your dog . While its calmly walking through a hallway. In search of a buy build shoot kit . That's within your rights to own . But yet they still want it or they will kill you to get it.

God speed gents. It’s only going to get worse under the Biden administration with
Becerra at the helm.

ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

GHOSTED: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits - This morning, an anonymous TFB reader provide additional information pointing to the ATF visiting end users and are requesting the forfeiture of certain Polymer80 kits.

www.thefirearmblog.com

“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws.”
– Ayn Rand

Yah, two answers for that.

I no longer have that kit, and come back with a warrant. Have a nice day

 

[Cdog]

I plead the fifth

Not today mr ATF man! Lmao!!

I get the feeling some of us hang out in some of the same places. Lol!!

 

[Blackmagic94]

Lol.

 

[Waffles]

I SUPPORT THE ATF!
I SUPPORT THE DOJ!
THEYLL NEVER COME AFTER ME! IM A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN!
ALL HAIL THE ZOGBOTS!

 

[CobraDave]

You have to ask yourself why someone would by a P80 kit that is not a complete firearm, that must be drilled out, for a cost of roughly $800 retail. A firearm that when complete, is less reliable, less safe , and less accurate. A firearm that attempts to copy a Glock 9mm which in the store can be purchased for about $500. Why someone would purchase an inferior product for $300 more.

I am for the second amendment, but I’m also for the government doing its part to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. They aren’t perfect but they should at least try. The overreach is silly at times, especially in California. They try to enact policies or solutions to problems that don’t exist. Solutions that don’t address the problem. I hate that.

Here, I applaud the ATF for doing its job. Polymer 80 does not pass the common sense test.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FROGMAN524]

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[HCP3]

You have to ask yourself why someone would by a P80 kit that is not a complete firearm, that must be drilled out, for a cost of roughly $800 retail. A firearm that when complete, is less reliable, less safe , and less accurate. A firearm that attempts to copy a Glock 9mm which in the store can be purchased for about $500. Why someone would purchase an inferior product for $300 more.

I am for the second amendment, but I’m also for the government doing its part to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. They aren’t perfect but they should at least try. The overreach is silly at times, especially in California. They try to enact policies or solutions to problems that don’t exist. Solutions that don’t address the problem. I hate that.

Here, I applaud the ATF for doing its job. Polymer 80 does not pass the common sense test.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"Common sense gun control" is so meaningless. Can't wait to see what Joe Biden's definition of common sense is...