Asbestos flooring

[Cobalt232]

My middle kid bought a late 60's house in HB this week. It's not a total fixer-upper, but it needs quite a bit of work as it was a rental. They closed on Tuesday and his first project after work was to remove the old nasty carpet. He got that out and discovered flooring under the carpet in 3 of the bedrooms that he called linoleum. He said he was going to get a scraper and get it removed the next night. It didn't even dawn on me that it might be old asbestos tiles. He and his wife wore cartridge-style masks when they broke it out, but didn't seal off any other rooms. He had it all up in a couple of hours. So now he has 3 piles of probable broken asbestos tiles in the house and doesn't know what to do and is freaking out a bit. The black mastic is still in place. as well.

The good news is that the house is vacant with none of their belongings in it although they were hoping to move in this weekend.

Is it safe for him to use a hepa shopvac, wet the material and remove it? Or does he need to call a specialist?

 

[Ziggy]

If they were 8x8 tiles then likely have asbestos fibers in them.
Bagging/containing it should be first.
Ventilate the house, wash floors.....minimum.
I know how I'd dispose of it but I'm not going to suggest anything other than "safely".

 

[J&k beer can]

lets just say ive heard of putting it in bed of truck and taken to dump..

 

[Desert Whaler]

lets just say ive heard of putting it in bed of truck and taken to dump..

Or black bags & in the trash.
Doesn’t hurt to spray the floor down w/ a hand-pump style bug sprayer filled with water & a little soap as you sweep up to help keep the dust down.
New shop vac filters / bags & toss them afterwards.

 

[Wheeler]

lets just say ive heard of putting it in bed of truck and taken to dump..

Would that be before or after they get their Moderna booster shots?

 

[monkeyswrench]

What is the next flooring he plans on putting down? That may determine how "smooth" he needs to make the mastic. Even if the tiles were not, chances are the mastic is "hot" and would test positive.

The official way is to seal off the work area, use negative ventilation through filters to exterior, work "wet" (Hudson sprayer with some type of soapy water) wear PPE suit and all that....oh, and have a license.

I may or may not have done a lot of stuff with a respirator and thick trash bags...

I use to take "core samples" to a lab for a previous employer. I asked them how they tested them. Pretty simple, they'd burn them. If the residue contained unburnt cat hair type fibers, those were asbestos. When bidding some jobs it became necessary to sample and use a pocket torch...asbestos remediation on big commercial jobs could skew everything, or get you in deep trouble

 

[Gonefishin5555]

I had 1600 sq ft of linoleum tile squares that tested asbestos. My contractor pulled off job until it was gone. I chipped it all out myself The black mastic also tested positive for asbestos. I did two coats of a sealer paint and left in place. I still have the same tiles on my garage floor it’s just not a priority. I remember reading up on it at the time and concluded a one project exposure really amounted to nothing in the big scheme of things. This was 13 years ago.

 

[Wheeler]

Or black bags & in the trash.
Doesn’t hurt to spray the floor down w/ a hand-pump style bug sprayer filled with water & a little soap as you sweep up to help keep the dust down.
New shop vac filters / bags & toss them afterwards.

220/221 What ever makes 'em feel good. One can only imagine the amount of asbestos that we inhaled from brake linings. That shit was on all our streets and always in the air.

 

[YeahYeah01]

This is what I do for a living.

There's a big difference between linoleum and vinyl tiles. 9x9s.

The 9x9 tiles are non-friable until you start taking a breaker to it and then you'll get some fibers released. Linoleum has a paper backing that is friable and high asbestos content.

I would say definitely have a professional do it, but there's a problem here, because of what he did by breaking the tiles. There's an accidental release now and if he involves a pro, we have to do what's called a procedure 5 abatement plan. You would hire a consultant to inspect and write a plan, that's usually around $1,200 or so, and then we would have to use that plan to submit to AQMD for review and approval, and just that alone is another $500 in 14 days of waiting. All this money spent before you can even actually do the work.

Depending on everyone's risk tolerance in the situation, I can provide some insight, but you'll need a PM me.

 

[Backlash]

I've been down this same road and we did things according to the book. It cost us a pretty penny, put other things on hold and churned up a response from a number of three letter government agencies. The removal and post-removal needed all kinds of inspections, tests, approvals, etc. Talk about red tape. It was a PITA. Yeah, we did things "The right way," but that's the last time I'll deal with that nonsense. I'm not going to tell you what I would do on a public forum, but it may have already been mentioned in previous posts.

 

[Cobalt232]

We have received some good tips here on how to proceed. After this hurdle it's on to a (hopefully) minor mold issue.

Thanks everyone!

 

[500bbc]

9x9 most likely.

If they were 8x8 tiles then likely have asbestos fibers in them.
Bagging/containing it should be first.
Ventilate the house, wash floors.....minimum.
I know how I'd dispose of it but I'm not going to suggest anything other than "safely".

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

This is what I do for a living.

There's a big difference between linoleum and vinyl tiles. 9x9s.

The 9x9 tiles are non-friable until you start taking a breaker to it and then you'll get some fibers released. Linoleum has a paper backing that is friable and high asbestos content.

I would say definitely have a professional do it, but there's a problem here, because of what he did by breaking the tiles. There's an accidental release now and if he involves a pro, we have to do what's called a procedure 5 abatement plan. You would hire a consultant to inspect and write a plan, that's usually around $1,200 or so, and then we would have to use that plan to submit to AQMD for review and approval, and just that alone is another $500 in 14 days of waiting. All this money spent before you can even actually do the work.

Depending on everyone's risk tolerance in the situation, I can provide some insight, but you'll need a PM me.

This ^^^^

 

[YeahYeah01]

I've been down this same road and we did things according to the book. It cost us a pretty penny, put other things on hold and churned up a response from a number of three letter government agencies. The removal and post-removal needed all kinds of inspections, tests, approvals, etc. Talk about red tape. It was a PITA. Yeah, we did things "The right way," but that's the last time I'll deal with that nonsense. I'm not going to tell you what I would do on a public forum, but it may have already been mentioned in previous posts.

So the one benefit that he has here is as a homeowner you're allowed to do asbesto's removal on your own. You just can't technically have anybody help you. Of course you still have to dispose of it correctly. But the local agencies can't tell you anything because they don't regulate homeowners the same way they regulate contractors.

That's what I meant by saying as soon as someone like me gets involved it's a whole different ball game.

 

[Mandelon]

Black bags and dump the debris. The floor likely covered in that black cut back mastic. That's harder to get rid of and typically contains asbestos as well. You can grind it off or encapsulate with a couple coats of Bullseye or similar paint. I assume they will be putting down LVP?

HEPA vacuums and HEPA air scrubbers are technically correct, but for a homeowner you can cut a few corners. Vacuum the whole house a couple times, and damp wipe everything to get rid of any remaining dust before moving in. Get a bunch of air exchanges going. Box fans in the windows should do it. If you don't have access to a HEPA vacuum, borrow a swimming pool hose and leave your big shop vac in the yard. Use the pool hose on the vacuum. Use a bag though so you don't dust out the neighbors.

 

[500bbc]

We've all been breathing it all our lives.
After the Northridge EQ everyone wanted their cheese ceilings removed.
Ins. Cos. Finally wised up and said well test inside and outside your house for contamination, if positive outside you're responsible to abate. If you're within 10 miles of a fwy you'd test positive outside.

 

[500bbc]

Black bags and dump the debris. The floor likely covered in that black cut back mastic. That's harder to get rid of and typically contains asbestos as well. You can grind it off or encapsulate with a couple coats of Bullseye or similar paint. I assume they will be putting down LVP?

HEPA vacuums and HEPA air scrubbers are technically correct, but for a homeowner you can cut a few corners. Vacuum the whole house a couple times, and damp wipe everything to get rid of any remaining dust before moving in. Get a bunch of air exchanges going. Box fans in the windows should do it. If you don't have access to a HEPA vacuum, borrow a swimming pool hose and leave your big shop vac in the yard. Use the pool hose on the vacuum. Use a bag though so you don't dust out the neighbors.

Dirty filter on a shop vac equals HEPA.

 

[Wheeler]

Serpentine. The California State rock.

Should we be worried about asbestos in serpentine rock?​

Should we be worried about asbestos in serpentine rock? -

Should we worry about asbestos in serpentine rock? Yes, a bit. In California, we have North America’s largest exposures. It's even our official state rock.

baynature.org

 

[Cobalt232]

Black bags and dump the debris. The floor likely covered in that black cut back mastic. That's harder to get rid of and typically contains asbestos as well. You can grind it off or encapsulate with a couple coats of Bullseye or similar paint. I assume they will be putting down LVP?

HEPA vacuums and HEPA air scrubbers are technically correct, but for a homeowner you can cut a few corners. Vacuum the whole house a couple times, and damp wipe everything to get rid of any remaining dust before moving in. Get a bunch of air exchanges going. Box fans in the windows should do it. If you don't have access to a HEPA vacuum, borrow a swimming pool hose and leave your big shop vac in the yard. Use the pool hose on the vacuum. Use a bag though so you don't dust out the neighbors.

Yeah, they will paint over the black mastic with Perfect Primer to encapsulate that.

 

[Wheeler]

We've all been breathing it all our lives.
After the Northridge EQ everyone wanted their cheese ceilings removed.
Ins. Cos. Finally wised up and said well test inside and outside your house for contamination, if positive outside you're responsible to abate. If you're within 10 miles of a fwy you'd test positive outside.

I loved the smell of brake dust while working for my dad as a kid. Blow that shit off and into the air! Mixing acoustic into the Spray Force, no mask ever used. White Boogers in the shower each night.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Yeah, they will paint over the black mastic with Perfect Primer to encapsulate that.

Rolling with a big ass paint roller works well. It does suck up the paint but your not looking for perfect color just for it to lock down.

The mastic undisturbed is not hurting anything.

 

[4Waters]

Serpentine. The California State rock.

Should we be worried about asbestos in serpentine rock?​

View attachment 1257769

Should we be worried about asbestos in serpentine rock? -

Should we worry about asbestos in serpentine rock? Yes, a bit. In California, we have North America’s largest exposures. It's even our official state rock.

baynature.org

California's state rock is basically cancer. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Ziggy]

9x9 most likely.

Yes, I brain farted by an inch

 

[4Waters]

We've all been breathing it all our lives.
After the Northridge EQ everyone wanted their cheese ceilings removed.
Ins. Cos. Finally wised up and said well test inside and outside your house for contamination, if positive outside you're responsible to abate. If you're within 10 miles of a fwy you'd test positive outside.

I scraped my ceilings years ago, before I did I went 2 doors down to my neighbor who is a contractor to ask who he uses for testing. He said we are good, he did his several years earlier and had them tested because it's his license if he gets caught, so that was nice to know. To top it off another neighbor did their's a couple years later that had theirs tested before scraping and it was clean as well.

 

[riverroyal]

Do not put address on here.
Asbestos and rentals don't mix.
He might want to consider some verbiage in the rental contract about the age of the house and 'known products containing asbestos ' etc

The worse part of asbestos is the fear it puts on uneducated people.
Don't get me wrong, it's not to be taken lightly.

IF he wanted to cover all his bases he needs a air sample prior to renting it.
Getting it wet only goes so far. It's more a myth. Less fibers will get airborne, but a bunch will still suspend in the air

Fyi, I've seen 1st hand the process of dying from it. It changed my perspective.

 

[riverroyal]

Also disposal, bag it, tape the end, then trash

 

[Angler]

Before you rent it out, pay to have the air ducts and furnace cleaned.
At least you'll know you did what you could to clean it up.

 

[500bbc]

I scraped my ceilings years ago, before I did I went 2 doors down to my neighbor who is a contractor to ask who he uses for testing. He said we are good, he did his several years earlier and had them tested because it's his license if he gets caught, so that was nice to know. To top it off another neighbor did their's a couple years later that had theirs tested before scraping and it was clean as well.

You can send samples to a local lab for testing as well, easy to do.

 

[500bbc]

Serpentine. The California State rock.

Should we be worried about asbestos in serpentine rock?​

View attachment 1257769

Should we be worried about asbestos in serpentine rock? -

Should we worry about asbestos in serpentine rock? Yes, a bit. In California, we have North America’s largest exposures. It's even our official state rock.

baynature.org

I had a chunk of that as kid.

 

[500bbc]

Do not put address on here.
Asbestos and rentals don't mix.
He might want to consider some verbiage in the rental contract about the age of the house and 'known products containing asbestos ' etc

The worse part of asbestos is the fear it puts on uneducated people.
Don't get me wrong, it's not to be taken lightly.

IF he wanted to cover all his bases he needs a air sample prior to renting it.
Getting it wet only goes so far. It's more a myth. Less fibers will get airborne, but a bunch will still suspend in the air

Fyi, I've seen 1st hand the process of dying from it. It changed my perspective.

I was told by an expert witness in the industry that there's never been a case of asbestosis or mesothelioma without being in conjunction with heavy smoking. Do you know if that still holds true?

 

[OCMerrill]

The only real issue here is coming across a person in the know. They can make a single phone call to this little government company in Diamond Bar called the AQMD and clear that contractor of $10k. This is why I don't touch it.

Also I don't believe a private homeowner doing the work would be fined for handling it if narc'd off by a neighbor. Its the contractor that gets the money hammer.
You don't take the stuff to some incineration location either. Bag it in a heavy mill bag, zip tie it closed, and discard.

 

[OCMerrill]

I had a chunk of that as kid.

It was probably in chewing gum in the 60's and Hair Spray in the 70's. In 1979 is was supposed to be gone, right China?

If a house was built yesterday, and I opened a wall to run stereo speakers without having said wall tested, BOOM Money hammer when Karen walks by and sees in the window what's happening. "I'll get that contractor, I don't have surround sound."

 

[TPC]

I lot of us know MC who has a flooring removal/installing business in LHC whose non smoking, beautiful wife with a heart of gold recently passed away from Mesothelioma.
He brought it home on his clothes.

Asbestos is non leachable so it can go to landfills.
Removing it is the safety hazard.

Any of the non-visible fibers is inhaled into you, your loved ones, or anyone's lungs it doesn't come back out. Microscopic fishhooks.

I held an asbestos removal license since they were first required and heed the safety warnings:
Proper mask, Tyvek suit tape it up, proper Hepa vac, try and do it wet and proper precautions or you may wish you did:

https://www.asbestos.qld.gov.au/removing-or-disturbing-asbestos/wearing-protective-equipment#:~:text=You%20will%20need%20to%20purchase,disposable%20respirator%20appropriate%20for%20asbestos.

 

[traquer]

Before you rent it out, pay to have the air ducts and furnace cleaned.
At least you'll know you did what you could to clean it up.

This is what I would do to. Along with a full wipe down of every surface which you'd do anyway. I'd even get the tops of doors, window sills etc. You'll probably be painting the whole joint after anyway so with the ducts clean there will literally be no place for it to exist that would cause problems

 

[rrrr]

It was probably in chewing gum in the 60's and Hair Spray in the 70's. In 1979 is was supposed to be gone, right China?

In the late 70s I was the general superintendent for construction of two low rise hotels. The drawings and specs called for 1/4" cement asbestos board (CAB) 4' X 8' sheets to be screwed down on top of the room and hallway plywood decking for fire resistance. The carpet and tile were installed on top of it.

A few years ago I looked on Google for the buildings. They're both gone.

 

[Wheeler]

I don't know about you guys but this is the way I see it!

I had a chunk of that as kid.

I have a real nice specimen around here someplace. It might be in a desk drawer or in the medicine cabinet.

I started spraying acoustic ceilings in the 70's then started removing it in the late 80's.

I was referred to one of if not the largest law firms in Long beach to remove the Acoustic from his private residence. All he handled was Asbestos cases.

 

[Cobalt232]

They aren't going to be renting it out, they are moving in. Per everyone's suggestions, they got about 1/2 done last night. They also realized how hot a Tyvek suit can get. Every surface has been washed and they are sealing each room as they clean. He said there was very little visible dust on any surfaces, but they sprayed all the walls with water/soap and vacuumed up the water with the HEPA Shopvac outside with a long hose.

 

[riverroyal]

I was told by an expert witness in the industry that there's never been a case of asbestosis or mesothelioma without being in conjunction with heavy smoking. Do you know if that still holds true?

I've never heard this.

 

[YeahYeah01]

This is what I would do to. Along with a full wipe down of every surface which you'd do anyway. I'd even get the tops of doors, window sills etc. You'll probably be painting the whole joint after anyway so with the ducts clean there will literally be no place for it to exist that wou

They aren't going to be renting it out, they are moving in. Per everyone's suggestions, they got about 1/2 done last night. They also realized how hot a Tyvek suit can get. Every surface has been washed and they are sealing each room as they clean. He said there was very little visible dust on any surfaces, but they sprayed all the walls with water/soap and vacuumed up the water with the HEPA Shopvac outside with a long hose.

Lol imagine doing when you actually seal the house house with Poly sheeting for days, especailly in lets say Palmdale when its 110 out side. It gets insane. And then you just spray water all the time so its humid as hell.

 

[YeahYeah01]

I lot of us know MC who has a flooring removal/installing business in LHC whose non smoking, beautiful wife with a heart of gold recently passed away from Mesothelioma.
He brought it home on his clothes.

Asbestos is non leachable so it can go to landfills.
Removing it is the safety hazard.

Any of the non-visible fibers is inhaled into you, your loved ones, or anyone's lungs it doesn't come back out. Microscopic fishhooks.

I held an asbestos removal license since they were first required and heed the safety warnings:
Proper mask, Tyvek suit tape it up, proper Hepa vac, try and do it wet and proper precautions or you may wish you did:

https://www.asbestos.qld.gov.au/removing-or-disturbing-asbestos/wearing-protective-equipment#:~:text=You%20will%20need%20to%20purchase,disposable%20respirator%20appropriate%20for%20asbestos.

Cant go to regular landfills in CA. Only local place is Azusa reclamation landfill, with proper Manifest and profile.

 

[traquer]

Why seal it, its so hot it's not like anyone nearby is outside

 

[Backlash]

Cant go to regular landfills in CA. Only local place is Azusa reclamation landfill, with proper Manifest and profile.

I had a copy of ours and it ended up in Arizona, just east of the Colorado River.

 

[YeahYeah01]

I had a copy of ours and it ended up in Arizona, just east of the Colorado River.

Yup probably La Paz county landfill. Yuma has one as well. Bigger loads almost always go though since its way cheaper, even after fuel costs and driver pay.

 

[rrrr]

I was told by an expert witness in the industry that there's never been a case of asbestosis or mesothelioma without being in conjunction with heavy smoking. Do you know if that still holds true?

A friend of mine that was a union piping insulator beginning in the 60s died of mesothelioma. He never smoked.

 

[500bbc]

A friend of mine that was a union piping insulator beginning in the 60s died of mesothelioma. He never smoked.

Thanks for that input.

 

[whiteworks]

My dad had this old cook book and we’re we’re looking through it at the recipes. There was a recipe for baked potatoes, it said that “first you want to wrap your potato in your asbestos cloth”. This was pre aluminum foil, the reality is that asbestos was the wonder material and they put that shit in everything just for good measure back in the day.

My buddies dad use to haul oversized stuff for a living, he hauled an old train car that had been converted to a diner back to his yard, gutted it and scrapped the steel. Fast forward 20 years when he went to sell the property, the area where he had gutted the diner out of the train car tested hot for asbestos. He ended up taking about 18” of soil off the top that ended up under a high rise building that was being built out in LA. His buddy was the super and played don’t ask, don’t tell with the full dirt.

Contaminated soil will haunt your for life is what I hear, you don’t want your name attached to that stuff.

 

[Fabhouse]

I am a commercial flooring contractor-lots of schools, public works, older buildings etc.....
If I see 9x9's, or black mastic the project is on hold. Often, its under the current VCT or carpet, and we don't find out until demo starts. If you are licensed, you do not touch it. I will recommend an abatement company to take it from there. As a home owner, the laws are much different. Most of the tiles and mastic are under 1% asbestos, and likely not going to harm you, but legally, I can't remove more than 10 sq ft. What you (your kids) are doing is fine, and they are taking good precautions-I personally wouldn't worry too much. As far as disposal-look up the appropriate disposal sites in the area, they will require all the tile/dust is bagged and sealed.