Are you doing your part to support the "trades"? Mild rant...

[Roosky01]

I am absolutely committed to encouraging all the young folks I cross paths with to seriously consider the trades as a career. I don't care if it's union or merit plumbing, electrical, HVAC, Sewer/Water, Pipeline, Sheetmetal, Fitters, Boilermakers, Ironworkers, Operators, Laborers, etc., we need some serious help in populating this workforce and it takes guys and gals like us to show them the way. I deal with the extreme lack of quality, or the exorbitant pricing of "good" quality, every single day it seems and we are truly fuk'd unless we start getting serious about it.

I am continually trying to set up career days, job shadowing, work program, and pre-apprentice type stuff for high school kids every opportunity I get for lazy damn contractors that just want to keep their head in the sand...And I'm the one who hires the damn contractors! Please make it make sense!

 

[Javajoe]

Can’t wait to retire and get away from all the shit head trademen who bitch and complain daily. Typical Public Works Projects. So much better in the private sector. Ran private work for 30 years. 6 years on this shit is on my last nerve. And yes…. There is no skilled tradesmen because so many kids are lazy as fuck and the smart one’s get white collar jobs which normally does not pan out

 

[Moabifam5]

Kudos to you for doing that and I completly agree. I spent the better part of 40 years working in concrete, carpentry and then Pipeline Construction. Enjoyed all of my time and was fortunate to be set up with a pretty nice pension so I can enjoy retirement. Lots of hard work and sweat but it was worth every second. Wife and are are blessed as 2 of our 3 followed in my footsteps and my oldest is a fireman. Hope they can get the same enjoyment out of it that I did..Good luck with your career days etc.

 

[bonesfab]

I really encourage all the younger ones I come in contact with to learn a trade. I even let the high school kids come in and intern at the shop. But the last 5-10 years there really hasn‘t been any stand outs. It is going to get interesting in the next 10 years with a shortage of skilled labor.

 

[Joker]

Union pipefitters have to be the biggest douchebags out there. I’d encourage any young kid not to become one.
Zero issues with any other union trades .

 

[Roosky01]

I really encourage all the younger ones I come in contact with to learn a trade. I even let the high school kids come in and intern at the shop. But the last 5-10 years there really hasn‘t been any stand outs. It is going to get interesting in the next 10 years with a shortage of skilled labor.

Here in the Midwest it’s been the lack of “farm”kids and the rural kids that have work ethic and common sense that has fallen off dramatically in the last 25 years or so. It is so blatantly obvious that it’s comical. Family farms and everything that supplied them is just gone.

Need to get to these kids way earlier I guess because nobody in their sphere of influence seems to be teaching them a damn thing? Will not stop trying though!

BTW, I would have probably damn near given up a nut to get the opportunity to work in a shop like yours at 16…

 

[HTTP404]

I just try to refer good people to good opportunities.

 

[Romans9]

Learn a trade, learn to market yourself, always shoot for the top, enjoy the great life you will live, no real risk involved.

One of my sons is a lineman, the other a mechanical engineer. Both have stellar backgrounds, experience and work ethic. They are the top of everything they do and will easily have a fruitful and lucrative careers.

 

[NicPaus]

I recently asked my Cousin to recruit a few and send them to CA. He was raised on a family farm in Iowa. He said there is none locally. And he has just as hard of time finding them. Prices he has recently paid for bathroom and kitchen remodeling is not much less than CA prices. He is a hard worker and said he currently getting paid 250k a year and not having to travel like he used to.

Our grandparents farm sits empty. The fields sub leased to big operations. Nobody wants to work hard. My grandparents were crazy hard workers running that farm. I used to get sent out there every summer to help them. Definitely instilled a good work ethic in Me.

I have a few young Nephews I am trying to teach about hard work paying off. We shall see if they want to get into the trades. I have everything to get them started in any trade they want. And if I don't have it. I will buy it. In 10-15 years they will be able to make a lot of money.

 

[AEA]

I recently asked my Cousin to recruit a few and send them to CA. He was raised on a family farm in Iowa. He said there is none locally. And he has just as hard of time finding them. Prices he has recently paid for bathroom and kitchen remodeling is not much less than CA prices. He is a hard worker and said he currently getting paid 250k a year and not having to travel like he used to.

Our grandparents farm sits empty. The fields sub leased to big operations. Nobody wants to work hard. My grandparents were crazy hard workers running that farm. I used to get sent out there every summer to help them. Definitely instilled a good work ethic in Me.

I have a few young Nephews I am trying to teach about hard work paying off. We shall see if they want to get into the trades. I have everything to get them started in any trade they want. And if I don't have it. I will buy it. In 10-15 years they will be able to make a lot of money.

What do you consider "a lot of money"?

 

[NicPaus]

What do you consider "a lot of money"?

50k + a month.

 

[OCMerrill]

I am absolutely committed to encouraging all the young folks I cross paths with to seriously consider the trades as a career. I don't care if it's union or merit plumbing, electrical, HVAC, Sewer/Water, Pipeline, Sheetmetal, Fitters, Boilermakers, Ironworkers, Operators, Laborers, etc., we need some serious help in populating this workforce and it takes guys and gals like us to show them the way. I deal with the extreme lack of quality, or the exorbitant pricing of "good" quality, every single day it seems and we are truly fuk'd unless we start getting serious about it.

I am continually trying to set up career days, job shadowing, work program, and pre-apprentice type stuff for high school kids every opportunity I get for lazy damn contractors that just want to keep their head in the sand...And I'm the one who hires the damn contractors! Please make it make sense!

I am not afraid to hire them as long as my workers comp allows it.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

Company I work for posted a job that paid 20-50 an hour depending on experience. We got lucky to get two guys. We’re still looking but everyone wants the top pay without learing the trade. If someone sticks it out it’s good for a lifelong career and good money 100k a year and up the sky is really the limit for someone willing to work and put in the time to learn.

 

[Tooms22]

Too many parents think their kids need to go to college. So people aren't cut out to push paper (or data on a screen) all day.

Hell, I wish I would've gone to college for business and maybe even got an MBA in business. Then go into the trades a little late and start a business.

I tell young people that they can make more money than most attorneys if they start a business in the trades and grow it. Especially when you factor in that the younger generation wants to be paid every month with top tier benefits while working less hours than their predecessors. If a young person has some business acumen, wants to put in the hours to do solid work, and is willing to take some risk leaving the W2 safety, they should excel.

But what do I know, I just argue with insurance adjusters, push paper, and mark up documents with a red digital pen

 

[Blue Oval]

Replacing my head tech. 28 years of service and he is good. Placed adds everywhere. Two weeks in, one person answered the add. I have not looked for a tech for 10 years. Not looking good. Hope someone likes to boat or fish reads the add and wants to move north.

 

[Boat211]

My son has just started a union electrical apprenticeship. He is in his 4th week of work. He is struggling a little bit as his journeyman seems to be a complete douche bag. My son is 3rd generation in this union as myself, my father and stepmother are all in there as well. I am glad he chose this. Fingers crossed this asshat doesn’t put a bad taste in his mouth

 

[Done-it-again]

50k + a month.

I imagine as a business and not a W2.

 

[Riverbound]

I’d say I’m ding my part with 350+ people on the payroll HAVC Plumbing and Electrical.

 

[Riverbound]

I imagine as a business and not a W2.

I have quite a few W2 people pulling that amount.

 

[Your ad here]

I just stopped caring an have just become an asshole. I'll change my attitude for someone that invest in themself and shows up with what you would consider tools they should bring to the work place and working after hours to develop a better skill level. Can't even gets guys to buy their own tape measure but when they do they expect a $5/hr raise.

 

[Toolman]

We tried going to the trade tech, the college machine shop classes, and anywhere else we could think of looking for young potential help. We were posting notes on the school bulletin board for part-time job starting at $15 an hour. The teacher tells us not to waste our time because these kids are gonna want $30 an hour as soon as they graduate their class. A lot of these kids are gonna be living in their parents basement for the rest of their lives.

 

[attitude]

We tried going to the trade tech, the college machine shop classes, and anywhere else we could think of looking for young potential help. We were posting notes on the school bulletin board for part-time job starting at $15 an hour. The teacher tells us not to waste our time because these kids are gonna want $30 an hour as soon as they graduate their class. A lot of these kids are gonna be living in their parents basement for the rest of their lives.

I can almost guarantee the kids have the $30 number in their head because that’s what the school is telling them…

 

[Bigbore500r]

I can almost guarantee the kids have the $30 number in their head because that’s what the school is telling them…

Can't blame them, when the burger flipper at In-n-out is starting at $22.50 . . .

The entire minimum wage scale shift in LA has completely fucked the labor market beyond belief.

 

[Bigbore500r]

I have quite a few W2 people pulling that amount.

You have quite a few W2 employees making 600k+ a year ? What are they doing, and are you hiring?

 

[MARCYTECH]

Fairly young (33years young) Local 12 journeyman operator/structural steel welder… anyone hiring? Looking to work near ie/oc. I’m tired of the 3 hour daily commutes that my trade forces me into. I wanna make it to my kids after school activities

 

[attitude]

Can't blame them, when the burger flipper at In-n-out is starting at $22.50 . . .

The entire minimum wage scale shift in LA has completely fucked the labor market beyond belief.

Yup, even then I think $15 is low for a trade that requires schooling. I was making $13.50 an hour at my part time job in high school over 10 years ago.

The starter jobs in AZ don’t pay much less than CA but the quality of employees is way higher.

 

[JL95]

Anyone else watching nexgen founder podcasts right now lol

 

[Sportin' Wood]

You have quite a few W2 employees making 600k+ a year ? What are they doing, and are you hiring?

I have quite a few W2 people pulling that amount.

50k + a month.

Please unpack this.

Which trade is paying this kind of money?

 

[Bigbore500r]

Please unpack this.

Which trade is paying this kind of money?

Get in line, I applied first . . .

 

[NicPaus]

I imagine as a business and not a W2.

Yes. Not W2. Unless a big operation like mentioned.

 

[evantwheeler]

Please unpack this.

Which trade is paying this kind of money?

Welding is one trade. I've seen the checks. These opportunities are not present 52 weeks a year, but certainly a couple months a year our top guys are hitting that number between wages and their welding rig rental. They are certainly earning it through effort and production, 12+hr shifts 6 days a week. Spending months living in a hotel while your wife raises 2 young kids AND a new born by herself 2 hours away in your home only seeing them one day a week.

 

[evantwheeler]

My son has just started a union electrical apprenticeship. He is in his 4th week of work. He is struggling a little bit as his journeyman seems to be a complete douche bag. My son is 3rd generation in this union as myself, my father and stepmother are all in there as well. I am glad he chose this. Fingers crossed this asshat doesn’t put a bad taste in his mouth

Having been through the trades, then you should be able to school him up on having thick skin and dealing with douchebags.

 

[Nordie]

The trades are aging out, less youth getting involved, and the old timers are coming up on retirement. It is going to hit a point where it is basically going to be name your price.

The future for the trades which will never go away is a pretty good way to set yourself up. You just have to get these kids away from their x-boxes. There is also the flawed education system that seems to put it in these kids heads that if you don't goto college you're going to be a nobody.

This world takes all types, and not everyone needs a liberal arts degree. I like that there's people out there like Adam Corolla and Mike Rowe pushing the trades.

 

[MARCYTECH]

Welding is one trade. I've seen the checks. These opportunities are not present 52 weeks a year, but certainly a couple months a year our top guys are hitting that number between wages and their welding rig rental. They are certainly earning it through effort and production, 12+hr shifts 6 days a week. Spending months living in a hotel while your wife raises 2 young kids AND a new born by herself 2 hours away in your home only seeing them one day a week.

Why would someone stay in a hotel when they’re only 2 hours from home? That’s a normal drive for myself and a lot of people I know…

I’ve been a pipe and structural for many years. I’ve never known anyone traveling or not in a 50k month. Not saying you’re lying. Just sayin I ain’t seen it. How much you paying for a rig and a hand?

 

[JL95]

We have our master woodworker retiring here this Friday at 78 years old. No meaningful applications to take his spot. Granted we don’t pay shit lol

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Welding is one trade. I've seen the checks. These opportunities are not present 52 weeks a year, but certainly a couple months a year our top guys are hitting that number between wages and their welding rig rental. They are certainly earning it through effort and production, 12+hr shifts 6 days a week. Spending months living in a hotel while your wife raises 2 young kids AND a new born by herself 2 hours away in your home only seeing them one day a week.

My son is an site welder. He is on the 6/12 program as well. Nowhere near that kind of pay. He is certified for both structural and pipe. His personal life does not exists. He works, he sleeps. That is it. Try getting maintenance done on your welding rig in the middle of nowhere. He's over $6k deep since Jan in engine repairs and the truck sat in the shop for 12 days. I'm sure he would love to pull up and move over to your crew with that kind of pay. Single guy, hell bent on stacking cash.

You can't count per Diem, truck and equipment rental as wage, because it is a cost reimbursement. Sure you ca make some back on per Diem, if you are frugal, maybe. but trucks and equipment have costs.

My brother likes to brag about how much money he makes (when he works) Most of it was reimbursements and he spent his whole career living out of a suitcase away from his wife and family. His relationship with his family now that he is retried is strained. The only reason he has not divorced his second wife is that she will get half.

My guess he goes back to work soon as he gets bored.

I see these types of conversations about how much money people make and they tend to leave out details that erode the actual net annual income.

Yes, when I was a contractor there where jobs I made massive money, but gave most it back in material, equipment, insurance, housing, fuel, etc. I thought I was high class white trash, but I was bleeding money. Broke ass dick and did not even know it.

 

[Boat211]

Having been through the trades, then you should be able to school him up on having thick skin and dealing with douchebags.

We are working on that.

 

[Ladsm]

Looking back I probably would have gone into refrigeration instead of Electrician because they get to do a bigger variety of work- Piping, Electrical, controls, refrigerant, motors etc. Electrical has always been good to me and a great fall back when my managment jobs over the years evaporated or we got bought out.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Looking back I probably would have gone into refrigeration instead of Electrician because they get to do a bigger variety of work- Piping, Electrical, controls, refrigerant, motors etc. Electrical has always been good to me and a great fall back when my managment jobs over the years evaporated or we got bought out.

Robotics and controls is going to have huge demand. There are not enough people doing this work.

 

[BHC Vic]

Im pretty big on recruitment. Go to a lot of high schools, bring a lot of high schools here to tour the training center. We have our career connections program which I really like so I’m constantly helping w that. I completely agree w the op

 

[BHC Vic]

Fairly young (33years young) Local 12 journeyman operator/structural steel welder… anyone hiring? Looking to work near ie/oc. I’m tired of the 3 hour daily commutes that my trade forces me into. I wanna make it to my kids after school activities

Get your cwi i bet we would hire you at a training center

 

[MARCYTECH]

Get your cwi i bet we would hire you at a training center

I have been looking into getting my cwi and going into inspection. Thanks!

 

[attitude]

We have our master woodworker retiring here this Friday at 78 years old. No meaningful applications to take his spot. Granted we don’t pay shit lol

And at 78 his house is paid off, his kids are moved out and I’m sure he has plenty of savings. More than likely his replacement will have a mortgage at 2025 levels, kids, and a retirement to plan for. AKA he will need a lot more money to survive, but senior leadership will wonder why no one wants his old job at his old pay…

 

[evantwheeler]

Why would someone stay in a hotel when they’re only 2 hours from home? That’s a normal drive for myself and a lot of people I know…

I’ve been a pipe and structural for many years. I’ve never known anyone traveling or not in a 50k month. Not saying you’re lying. Just sayin I ain’t seen it. How much you paying for a rig and a hand?

I'm speculating here because I have chosen the single life, but I suspect when you're working 12+hour days in a high production environment making really good money, you want to focus on the work and not get roped into dealing with BS at home in addition to your 4 hours of commuting a day. I've watched guys miss out on tens of thousands of dollars (probably hundreds of thousands over multiple years) in income because they have needy wives that are incapable of surviving without them home daily. I've watched young men absolutely change their lives financially sacrificing time away from home with newborns and wives/gf's that are strong and understand what it takes.

I can't get into the specifics of guys paychecks on a public forum, but I'm not stretching the truth or lying. These individuals are definitely outliers, and are reaping the rewards of a decade of effort honing skills and saying yes to everything. I guess you could pull outliers out of any industry like Riverbound did and everyone will balk and say that's not possible for the common person, and you're right. The folks making this kind of money are not common. I've seen employees that get $20k in their bank account and think they are rich and start turning down work. Those guys don't get opportunities like the guys that are "company men".

 

[BHC Vic]

I’ve been to a lot of welding conferences. There’s money to be made but like said the 50k isn’t constant. Average it out over the year and you need to be good w money.

 

[DC-88]

The best thing about the trades is the opportunity is there at any time after getting enough experience to start your own business if one chooses to. The second best thing is the ability to live almost anywhere in the country as long as you are willing to bounce between sectors depending on how populated of an area you do or don't want to be in. I'd say the third best thing is being skilled you can do as stated above if needed or you are bored/ retired and pull easily 60-80 dollars an hour in today's $ making short term specific contracts with your lic doing electrical/ finish carpentry/ plumbing etc part time in retirement helping another contractor or subcontractor working a couple days a week or even just a couple a month.

 

[NicPaus]

Please unpack this.

Which trade is paying this kind of money?

The most profitable business I see is plumbing. Not new construction. I should of started out as a plumber instead of a GC.

Currently working on creating a plumbing division. I have 2 rigs Currently and was in the process of buying a third. Only doing plumbing for my regular customers and my Realtor property management company.

I need to charge more but I always try and be fair with my customers.

Few examples.

Last week rental had a cracked tub. Demo and replace with new tub and surround. New drain and valve while it's open. Been 10 years since I did one. Always prefer cast iron tubs and lately quartz shower panels for durability. Easy to clean when tenants move. Get the go ahead just invoice when complete. Customer friend needs the same. Keeps asking the price. I tell him let me see how it goes. My guys do it in a day. Not including patching around. 1 guy patches in a day. 2 hours 3rd day to paint. His friends bids are $6-17k.


Yesterday replace drains for 4 fixtures. I usually bid $1500 a fixture. My plumber buddy $2k a fixture. These rooter hero and smell good companies would bid 12k or so. 3 guys 1 day and $400 in materials.

Another rental for my Realtor. Replace 10' of 2" abs. I quote $1300 as the tenant is a nightmare. Owner of unit says that's crazy. Instructs Realtor to get 3 more bids. 2 no shows. 1 company has a guy there in 20 minutes. He wants $180 for written estimate or free verbal. $6800. Before the bid comes back my realtor is saying how professional they were and quick to show up. Says I can match there price if I want the job. Calls me back a few hours later saying Owner approved. When can I do it. I ask what happened to the other guy. Other guy popped up around 6 years ago. He has around 12 trucks now. I drove by his shop this morning. I personally went under that house with one of my guys and it took us 30 minutes to replace. Of course the tenant called me and complained and talked shit to the realtor. I left a section of pipe so she could see the grease. Owner tried to get her to pay but no luck. She must of been dumping bacon grease down the drain daily.

 

[evantwheeler]

My son is an site welder. He is on the 6/12 program as well. Nowhere near that kind of pay. He is certified for both structural and pipe. His personal life does not exists. He works, he sleeps. That is it. Try getting maintenance done on your welding rig in the middle of nowhere. He's over $6k deep since Jan in engine repairs and the truck sat in the shop for 12 days. I'm sure he would love to pull up and move over to your crew with that kind of pay. Single guy, hell bent on stacking cash.

You can't count per Diem, truck and equipment rental as wage, because it is a cost reimbursement. Sure you ca make some back on per Diem, if you are frugal, maybe. but trucks and equipment have costs.

My brother likes to brag about how much money he makes (when he works) Most of it was reimbursements and he spent his whole career living out of a suitcase away from his wife and family. His relationship with his family now that he is retried is strained. The only reason he has not divorced his second wife is that she will get half.

My guess he goes back to work soon as he gets bored.

I see these types of conversations about how much money people make and they tend to leave out details that erode the actual net annual income.

Yes, when I was a contractor there where jobs I made massive money, but gave most it back in material, equipment, insurance, housing, fuel, etc. I thought I was high class white trash, but I was bleeding money. Broke ass dick and did not even know it.

I guess my best public response would be, would you rather make $250k with $50-75k in expenses, or $125k with no "expenses" but the exact same hours worked? Every tradesman needs transportation. If you are a rig welder getting paid rig check, your transportation is now a write off, so is all your fuel. So are all your tools, on the truck and in the garage. So is that skid steer you bought to lift your welder in & out of your truck. So are all those materials you bought, the leftovers of which you used to build your rock crawler, the spare wheels, tires axle shafts, etc. Can't do that as just a W2 earner. Yes, you have more expenses, a bit more headache & responsibility maintaining equipment, but I've seen it work well for guys that want it and understand how to play the game. I'm sure I'll get chastised for suggesting some of the tax write offs, but go to any play location in SoCal, look around, and I bet 90% of the toys & haulers are tax write offs paid for through businesses.

 

[JL95]

And at 78 his house is paid off, his kids are moved out and I’m sure he has plenty of savings. More than likely his replacement will have a mortgage at 2025 levels, kids, and a retirement to plan for. AKA he will need a lot more money to survive, but senior leadership will wonder why no one wants his old job at his old pay…

Yeah he’s a lucky guy. No kids, got into San Clemente when it was cheap. House is paid off and his wife has a nice gemology career. It’s hard to tell him that he’s out of touch with the real world (ie scum like me) lol. He doesn’t see the ugly much from San Clemente and he’s a raging old life long lib.

On the flip side he’s probably the most talented person we have ever employed. Best handwriting ever since he took calligraphy. Doesn’t need a calculator at all etc. old head things.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

The most profitable business I see is plumbing. Not new construction. I should of started out as a plumber instead of a GC.

Currently working on creating a plumbing division. I have 2 rigs Currently and was in the process of buying a third. Only doing plumbing for my regular customers and my Realtor property management company.

I need to charge more but I always try and be fair with my customers.

Few examples.

Last week rental had a cracked tub. Demo and replace with new tub and surround. New drain and valve while it's open. Been 10 years since I did one. Always prefer cast iron tubs and lately quartz shower panels for durability. Easy to clean when tenants move. Get the go ahead just invoice when complete. Customer friend needs the same. Keeps asking the price. I tell him let me see how it goes. My guys do it in a day. Not including patching around. 1 guy patches in a day. 2 hours 3rd day to paint. His friends bids are $6-17k.


Yesterday replace drains for 4 fixtures. I usually bid $1500 a fixture. My plumber buddy $2k a fixture. These rooter hero and smell good companies would bid 12k or so. 3 guys 1 day and $400 in materials.

Another rental for my Realtor. Replace 10' of 2" abs. I quote $1300 as the tenant is a nightmare. Owner of unit says that's crazy. Instructs Realtor to get 3 more bids. 2 no shows. 1 company has a guy there in 20 minutes. He wants $180 for written estimate or free verbal. $6800. Before the bid comes back my realtor is saying how professional they were and quick to show up. Says I can match there price if I want the job. Calls me back a few hours later saying Owner approved. When can I do it. I ask what happened to the other guy. Other guy popped up around 6 years ago. He has around 12 trucks now. I drove by his shop this morning. I personally went under that house with one of my guys and it took us 30 minutes to replace. Of course the tenant called me and complained and talked shit to the realtor. I left a section of pipe so she could see the grease. Owner tried to get her to pay but no luck. She must of been dumping bacon grease down the drain daily.

I spent the first part of my adult life as a Plumber in Southern California. I worked the entire lifecycle arch of a plumber from a 19 year old kid shoveling ditches, to a design engineer, to a contractor building customs and doing service calls, to owning a production plumbing shop until the crash in 2008. I then went hat in hand to a commercial plumbing outfit where I did everything from restaurants to hotels. The last project I ever worked on was the Padre Hotel in Bakersfield. I designed the whole damn thing and lead the crew from the guts to the finish. Lived in my camper in the parking lot, it sucked, but we were broke.

I'm pretty confident in how bad at business I was during this period of my life in my 30's The plumbing trade was really good to me as a poor white trash kid with not much opportunity. All that said, I would have to be really hard up to consider going back into the plumbing trade. I actually love the work, I hate the business of it. FWIW it took us 13 years to pay back the signature debt that plumbing company left us with after the crash. 50 employees, a commercial building in Lake Elsinore, doing tracts for Lennar, Pacific Century Etc. All a big mistake. One of the many things that gives me some wisdom is loosing money and I am really good at it.

Plumbing is a risky business. I don't think people appreciate the risks associated with leaks, mold, fire, liability, workers comp etc. There is a pile of tools and equipment required to do the job and you have to know a lot of stuff because you are dealing with people's health. The restoration companies profit by making a small drip into a tidal wave. I can't count the remodels we paid for. Sure sometimes you win big, but failure is always looming like a ticking time bomb.

The only time I think I actually made good money was during the time I did side work after working hours and on weekends using excess material. As a tradesmen I was really good at my trade, but I had no idea how to manage a P&L. Now that I have a decade working in a public company managing a P&L, that contractor business model gets a whole lot clearer. The sub contractor/developer relationship is built on the premise that the sub will incur all the risk, carry the labor burden and own the liability. When it comes time to pay the bill, the developer makes sure they have a positive working capital metric, by holding up your pay and back charging the shit out of you.

My only goal with this is to add some balance to these discussions about how much money can be made in the trades with a wake up call to pay attention to the details. You can get fucked really quick by everyone. EVERYONE, is going to try and fuck you over. Employees, customers, insurance, The state, the inspectors, vendors, other subs, and especially the general contractor.

Water does unbelievable damage. People suck. The upside to leaving the trades is that my back does not hurt every day and I don't have perma-sock legs.