Are service and tips a thing of the past?

[rivermobster]

Have a chip on your shoulder, do we ?

As far as the value of an MBA, by no means is it perfect and I never said it was. There’s plenty of lazy stupid people that have MBA’s as well as hard working smart ones. I went to a higher end school and even then, we had plenty of both. Every business has people that look great on paper, it’s not that unique of a scenario. As far as your opinion for the degree I obtained lacks, go get one from the same place and we'll chat.

As far as the cost of people not returning due to being asked to leave a tip, that’s absolutely a risk. I think there’s very few people that would do that, especially if the business has a worthwhile product, but again that’s just my opinion. Clearly yours is different.

He's not wrong.

Why do I say that? I've worked at multiple car dealerships. From Toyota to Bentley. Wanna know which ones had the best customer loyalty? The ones run as mom and pop shops.

Take any car dealership, and turn it over to a big company like Sonic Automotive? You'll get to watch every employee And customer end up totally pissed off.

Bean counters ruin everything.

I've been part of it happening more than one time.

The only corporate owned dealerships that had Any integrity were the ones owned by Penske. Roger and Greg did not fuck around. They weren't perfect by any means, but they were a nice balance for sure.

 

[Tank]

Let’s be clear on the original question -

Is service a thing of the past? Seems so more and more. Less service / higher prices / people not really understanding the concept of customer service and I’m not just speaking about the food industry.

Are tips a thing of the past - oh, no, no, no. On the contrare my friend. You’re now expected to tip someone for taking your order at the counter, prior to picking up food to go and many times mandated on larger parties no matter your service experience.

Service going away? Absolutely. Tipping going away? Quite the opposite.

 

[Bajastu]

Because customers will get up and walk out and the books don't reflect that loss. In my experience dealing with MBAs....the education required for the degree is lacking. Come to think of it....every single business I've been a part of that installed a management team of people with business degrees has gone down the toilet at an alarming rate. The ones that have been run by folks with no real education seem to be kicking ass and taking names. odd.

Some don't seem to understand that you have to look past the spreadsheet to see the big picture.

In my business, I will always hire experience over an education. If I find a candidate with an education and experience, the education is just the bonus. I find that most kids with an education still can’t formulate a proper email or carry a conversation with a client. Real world experience is crucial to propel a company to the top.

I also have an education, but I started off at the bottom of a company and worked my way up to the top. An education does not entitle you to top pay without the experience.

As for tipping, I usually tip 20% all the time when the service is rendered. The establishments that make you order at a counter and ask for a tip are just glorified fast food joints. This is where I draw the line on tipping. They provided no service, thus the lack of tip.

 

[2Driver]

The tip “for services rendered“ dynamic has changed like many work, debt and income related issues today.

It’s reflective of a societal shift from “I'll earn it“ to “I deserve it“. Obama convinced 2 generations that America was taking advantage of them.

 

[530RL]

Let’s be clear on the original question -

Is service a thing of the past? Seems so more and more. Less service / higher prices / people not really understanding the concept of customer service and I’m not just speaking about the food industry.

Are tips a thing of the past - oh, no, no, no. On the contrare my friend. You’re now expected to tip someone for taking your order at the counter, prior to picking up food to go and many times mandated on larger parties no matter your service experience.

Service going away? Absolutely. Tipping going away? Quite the opposite.

My personal experience is that service is getting better at the high end and non-existent at the low and middle end.

Given the lack of workers, the good ones are going to go to the place where their work product is appreciated and paid top dollar.

The good workers now have the leverage.

 

[Tank]

My personal experience is that service is getting better at the high end and non-existent at the low and middle end.

Given the lack of workers, the good ones are going to go to the place where their work product is appreciated and paid top dollar.

The good workers now have the leverage.

I agree with this. If you’re paying through the nose for something the service is good. I’ve had the same experience.

 

[rivermobster]

My personal experience is that service is getting better at the high end and non-existent at the low and middle end.

Given the lack of workers, the good ones are going to go to the place where their work product is appreciated and paid top dollar.

The good workers now have the leverage.

 

[76sanger]

My tip is based solely on service rendered. Poor service= poor tip, great service = great tip! I always have cash if going out to eat, I dont play that 15%,18%21% BS on my card.

 

[FCT]

“It’s just going to ask you a quick question”

that one really irritates the shit out of me. Anywhere and everywhere you go now ask for a tip. No sorry I don’t want to tip you for doing nothing.

 

[EmpirE231]

you sure you don't want to tip me, after I put together your chipotle bowl with very low energy, no smile... and you gotta pay $14 for the bowl, since me and my homies deserve $16 an hour lol

 

[poncho]

you sure you don't want to tip me, after I put together your chipotle bowl with very low energy, no smile... and you gotta pay $14 for the bowl, since me and my homies deserve $16 an hour lol

My last time in Red Robin I sat at the bar and ordered a coke and a menu, she never made eye contact with me once, kind of hot, I felt like she saw me as a guy trying to hit on her since I sat at the bar, it was 11:00am for Christ's sake.
I don't like sitting low, their booths are on the ground.

 

[Bajastu]

Starbucks even asks if you want to tip on the moblie app. They can't even make my drink right yet alone spell my name.

 

[farmo83]

Nope, just pointing out the obvious....that if any education led someone to believe that a tablet on a table would be better than personalized service....they overpaid for that education.

I'll attempt to make my point in a different manner. Are you more or less inclined to keep doing business was a place that got rid of people picking up the phone to provide customer service and instead replaced them with a completely automated voice command system that is impossible to navigate....like the majority of them ar

To answer your question it depends. There is plenty of times I want to speak with an actual person. There’s also plenty of times I just want to click add to cart and be done with my business.

Your comments about MBA’s remind me of the saying: You’re never criticized by someone doing more then you.

 

[farmo83]

He's not wrong.

Why do I say that? I've worked at multiple car dealerships. From Toyota to Bentley. Wanna know which ones had the best customer loyalty? The ones run as mom and pop shops.

Take any car dealership, and turn it over to a big company like Sonic Automotive? You'll get to watch every employee And customer end up totally pissed off.

Bean counters ruin everything.

I've been part of it happening more than one time.

The only corporate owned dealerships that had Any integrity were the ones owned by Penske. Roger and Greg did not fuck around. They weren't perfect by any means, but they were a nice balance for sure.

I know way more people that hate dealing with car salesman as opposed to enjoying the customer experience at a car dealership. Obviously, some salesmen are better then others, but that's my experience.

At a high-end brand and dealership yes I would expect more high-quality service. The rest of the time I'll go to Carmax or build online and go pick it up when ready.

 

[spectra3279]

I guess it depends on how you look at it, for the every day, day to day kind of stuff versus an actual dining experience. But I am also the guy that usually prefers self checkout at the grocery store. I don't look at it as me doing their job for them as much as I see it limiting the opportunity to deal with stupid people. And these days, in a lot of "service" industries, stupid is abundant.

So if I am at just an average dinner place, this wouldn't bother me, since today's average server at a basic dining place doesn't rank too high on the skill and motivation chart.

I will have a person check me out. I don't work there and I don't get an employee discount. Do your job and ring up my groceries.

 

[hallett21]

I know way more people that hate dealing with car salesman as opposed to enjoying the customer experience at a car dealership. Obviously, some salesmen are better then others, but that's my experience.

At a high-end brand and dealership yes I would expect more high-quality service. The rest of the time I'll go to Carmax or build online and go pick it up when ready.

I absolutely hate buying vehicles lol. The only positive experience I’ve had was with Jason at Selman.

 

[rivermobster]

I know way more people that hate dealing with car salesman as opposed to enjoying the customer experience at a car dealership. Obviously, some salesmen are better then others, but that's my experience.

At a high-end brand and dealership yes I would expect more high-quality service. The rest of the time I'll go to Carmax or build online and go pick it up when ready.

I guess I wasn't clear enough on the point I was trying to make...

The brand of vehicle has zero to do with the customer experience.

The owner of the dealership has Everything to do with the customer experience.

And once the bean counters step in with their big degrees and and no real world experience, customer satisfaction goes right in the toilet.

This is what's happening across just about the entire spectrum of this country. From restaurants, to car dealerships, to hardware stores.

Customer satisfaction is NOT a priority with bean counters. Dollars first, customers second.

That's basically what this thread is about.

 

[Orange Juice]

I enjoy a cold beer, served by a hot blonde, while my filet is cooking. She’s always going get a good tip.

 

[Orange Juice]

I guess I wasn't clear enough on the point I was trying to make...

The brand of vehicle has zero to do with the customer experience.

The owner of the dealership has Everything to do with the customer experience.

And once the bean counters step in with their big degrees and and no real world experience, customer satisfaction goes right in the toilet.

This is what's happening across just about the entire spectrum of this country. From restaurants, to car dealerships, to hardware stores.

Customer satisfaction is NOT a priority with bean counters. Dollars first, customers second.

That's basically what this thread is about.

At one point, customers were complaining about service, just to get something taken off their bill.

Bean counters saw that, and shut it down, if you haven’t noticed.

 

[Mcob25rg]

So let’s go up to 30,000’ and look down. When a business is in a zip code where housing is unobtainable by 2 minimum wage incomes, they can’t get help - the demise of the middle is what I call it. They can’t live where you want them to work, can’t afford the drive from where they can afford ( passing many equivalent/better jobs to get to unobtainable zip code), leaving those “haves” to their own demises.
The education argument is similar- if you think you can understand any business from an excel spreadsheet, you’re a huge part of the problems in this country. This combined with working population numbers decreasing by boomers all leaving only exacerbates this, so automation ( equalling bad service/ bad quality ) is going to continue to go away.

 

[WYRD]

10% is my "normal" tip amount unless I get exceptionally great service. CA gave them all their other half of the tip when they all got minimum wage

 

[rivermobster]

At one point, customers were complaining about service, just to get something taken off their bill.

Bean counters saw that, and shut it down, if you haven’t noticed.

Exactly. Back to the minority ruining it for the rest of us.

 

[lbhsbz]

I suppose you could blame all the dune and dash customers for this?

I’ve heard Glamis went to shit but that’s rediculous

 

[rivermobster]

I’ve heard Glamis went to shit but that’s rediculous

DOH!

It's ridiculous indeed!

 

[Orange Juice]

So let’s go up to 30,000’ and look down. When a business is in a zip code where housing is unobtainable by 2 minimum wage incomes, they can’t get help - the demise of the middle is what I call it. They can’t live where you want them to work, can’t afford the drive from where they can afford ( passing many equivalent/better jobs to get to unobtainable zip code), leaving those “haves” to their own demises.
The education argument is similar- if you think you can understand any business from an excel spreadsheet, you’re a huge part of the problems in this country. This combined with working population numbers decreasing by boomers all leaving only exacerbates this, so automation ( equalling bad service/ bad quality ) is going to continue to go away.

2302 N Central Ave #302, Phoenix, AZ 85003 | MLS #6703158 | Zillow

This 1646 square feet Apartment home has 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. It is located at 2302 N Central Ave #302, Phoenix, AZ.

www.zillow.com

These are popping up all over Phoenix. New. I think this is the middle class future…..

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

He's not wrong.

Why do I say that? I've worked at multiple car dealerships. From Toyota to Bentley. Wanna know which ones had the best customer loyalty? The ones run as mom and pop shops.

Take any car dealership, and turn it over to a big company like Sonic Automotive? You'll get to watch every employee And customer end up totally pissed off.

Bean counters ruin everything.

I've been part of it happening more than one time.

The only corporate owned dealerships that had Any integrity were the ones owned by Penske. Roger and Greg did not fuck around. They weren't perfect by any means, but they were a nice balance for sure.

What does an MBA have to do with bean counting and corporate Vs mom and pop run business?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Exactly. Back to the minority ruining it for the rest of us.

25% of this thread said they “get up and walk out” but fail to mention if they paid or not . Maybe they are the ones ruining it?

 

[was thatguy]

We studied this when I got my MBA. It’s a costless benefit to the employees. I.E. if you ask customers if you want to tip invariably some will think they should and will. The only cost for them to do this is write the screen to ask with the percentages or in an old school case put out a tip jar. After the cost to put the screen in is paid for it cost the business nothing to ask for tips so why wouldn’t they.


I personally am a very cheap tipper nor do I really agree with the concept. You’re reward for doing a good job is being able to keep your job, not a bonus at the customers expense. I’m aware that if tipping goes away wages and prices will rise and I’m happy to pay that. People are paying it anyway.

Hold on.
You had to go to college to learn that?

 

[530RL]

He's not wrong.

Why do I say that? I've worked at multiple car dealerships. From Toyota to Bentley. Wanna know which ones had the best customer loyalty? The ones run as mom and pop shops.

Take any car dealership, and turn it over to a big company like Sonic Automotive? You'll get to watch every employee And customer end up totally pissed off.

Bean counters ruin everything.

I've been part of it happening more than one time.

The only corporate owned dealerships that had Any integrity were the ones owned by Penske. Roger and Greg did not fuck around. They weren't perfect by any means, but they were a nice balance for sure.

My personal experience is that there is a demand for both although customers don't want to admit it.

No one here of course, but some people will go in and extract an hour or two of work from the salesperson figuring out what they want, grind on price and then state they will think about it only to go shop the price with another store of the same brand. Then when the new store says they will sell it for 500 bucks cheaper, the buyer says their car buying experience sucked because the F&I department then attempted to get some of that gross back when the store got to treat the customer exactly as the customer treated the store, and that is based upon price alone. And then to top it off, when the low gross dealer doesn't have anyone to explain all that complicated technology and how to set it up because that is additional employee time and overhead, the buyer is more frustrated about the experience. It's a circle of grinding to the lowest common denominator.

Other stores like RP generate a better experience but extract higher gross with higher costs.

Everyone wants and feels they are entitled to a high level of service, not everyone is willing to pay for it.

 

[JDKRXW]

2302 N Central Ave #302, Phoenix, AZ 85003 | MLS #6703158 | Zillow

This 1646 square feet Apartment home has 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. It is located at 2302 N Central Ave #302, Phoenix, AZ.

www.zillow.com

These are popping up all over Phoenix. New. I think this is the middle class future…..

2 'middle class' wage earners can't afford $3600+ / mo.

 

[Orange Juice]

2 'middle class' wage earners can't afford $3600+ / mo.

2 x $80k = $160k.

I don’t think $4000 a month is a stretch, for 15-30 years.

 

[TimeBandit]

2 'middle class' wage earners can't afford $3600+ / mo.

Plus $671 HOA, plus utilities, lets call it $4,500/mo.

For a frikkin condo.

 

[Mcob25rg]

That’s a 50% net to house payment. Nothing over 20% is long term workable. $520M might be middle in the far west, but it’s way upper in the east

 

[RogerThat99]

you get menus and a server.
I have done it. Told the hostess we are a no phone at dinner family, so we will need menus and a server.
Manager walked over, told him the same thing and next thing you know we had a server and paper menus.
Server got 30% and when she saw the tip, she said “thank you, that is the biggest tip I have gotten since I started”. Told her, tips are based on connections, not electronics

I refuse to do the QR Code thing (for a multitude of reasons), and always ask for a menu. I have never been told No.

 

[Outdrive1]

I’d rather pay the tablet and leave than wait on someone to come get my card or cash bring my change or receipt to sign. It irritates the crap out of me once I’m finished eating to wait longer to pay.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I’d rather pay the tablet and leave than wait on someone to come get my card or cash bring my change or receipt to sign. It irritates the crap out of me once I’m finished eating to wait longer to pay.

No kidding.

 

[Orange Juice]

Hold on.
You had to go to college to learn that?

We also learned how to negotiate middle class salaries.

 

[Mike K]

I’m a generous tipper “But” … not automatic.
I’ve been seeing this at airports for awhile … but like what was said earlier … at a regular restaurant?
Yeah … I’d be there just one time.