Any Smart Home - whole house audio/video experts here ? Looking for consultation.

[Slink]

Getting ready to build my retirement home in TN. I plan on running all my own pre-wiring to a home run location. Just want to make sure I'm running proper wire to the proper locations...also recommendations on equipment. I think WMC and Paradise might be in this field (from previous post). Would like to send someone my home plans and provide what I am looking to do. There are services on line but would rather spend my $$$ on a members business.

Thanks

 

[rivermobster]

I wired my whole house with CAT5. I don't really even use it anymore!

Everything is wireless now. Firesticks in every room. Done.

 

[scottchbrite]

I briefly ventured into this when I built my house just over 3 years ago. I have zero tech ability and live in an area where I’m Internet challenged (I use an AT&T FirstNet hotspot for internet!). My buddy that advised Me during my build showed me examples of houses he was building that had 6 figures worth of smart tech in them. Way more than I needed. I accomplished everything, so far, with smart switches, outlets, etc. Its really elementary compared to what pros do, but I dont need anything more. I have all my exterior lighting on programs, shop lighting too. My bbq uses a valve to control the propane and it’s all timer based. I find new ideas constantly but it’s all pretty basic stuff.
btw, I have cat 5/6 cable and phone lines and none of its used either.

 

[pronstar]

I would make a WiFi mesh coverage map.

Run Cat 6 or better hardlines for wired backhaul to where you want to place each mesh unit.

Then enjoy wireless the wireless life.

 

[Jay Dub]

X2. This is how I have my house wired. I use two Google mesh routers with wired backhaul.

 

[MPHSystems]

I wired my whole house with CAT5. I don't really even use it anymore!

Everything is wireless now. Firesticks in every room. Done.

A good WiFi system is pretty good most of the time. except for when it’s not.


best practices: WifI for mobile devices ONLY

If it can be hardwired, connect it via Ethernet/UTP. Make purchasing decision based on what can be hard wired.


I pretty much avoid residential integrations like the plague due to shitty ISPs and interruptions I have no control over are my problem.

I don’t mind working on FTP sites (fiber to the prim) they seem to be a lot more stable but everything else is a crapshoot.


I would never consider running WiFi to any stationary device which could be “hardwired”.

The difference being is I’m an integrator and it cost me money every time I have to roll a truck. If it’s your own house and you know what needs to be power cycled and when, knock yourself out. Personally, I just want to come home, turn on my shit and have it work EVERY time.

 

[Ricks raft]

A good WiFi system is pretty good most of the time. except for when it’s not.


best practices: WifI for mobile devices ONLY

If it can be hardwired, connect it via Ethernet/UTP. Make purchasing decision based on what can be hard wired.


I pretty much avoid residential integrations like the plague due to shitty ISPs and interruptions I have no control over are my problem.

I don’t mind working on FTP sites (fiber to the prim) they seem to be a lot more stable but everything else is a crapshoot.


I would never consider running WiFi to any stationary device which could be “hardwired”.

The difference being is I’m an integrator and it cost me money every time I have to roll a truck. If it’s your own house and you know what needs to be power cycled and when, knock yourself out. Personally, I just want to come home, turn on my shit and have it work EVERY time.

^^^^ this
Wireless is good now days but can still be interfered with, and a large home with many devices can slow down the best WiFi devices. Coax and Cat 6/7 or even fiber is now pretty cheap. Home runs to a central location For TVs, audio devices, cameras, office etc… Smart modems, switches, can be troubleshot, rebooted, remotely by you or the installer.

 

[rivermobster]

A good WiFi system is pretty good most of the time. except for when it’s not.


best practices: WifI for mobile devices ONLY

If it can be hardwired, connect it via Ethernet/UTP. Make purchasing decision based on what can be hard wired.


I pretty much avoid residential integrations like the plague due to shitty ISPs and interruptions I have no control over are my problem.

I don’t mind working on FTP sites (fiber to the prim) they seem to be a lot more stable but everything else is a crapshoot.


I would never consider running WiFi to any stationary device which could be “hardwired”.

The difference being is I’m an integrator and it cost me money every time I have to roll a truck. If it’s your own house and you know what needs to be power cycled and when, knock yourself out. Personally, I just want to come home, turn on my shit and have it work EVERY time.

I have FIOS, with plenty of bandwidth to do whatever I want.

But even with a crappy ISP, your hosed even if your hardwired!

I stream everything now days. I don't even use the FIOS TV.

If I want to watch a movie and get into the sound and video, it's going to be on my 4k player.

I suppose it just depends on what you want to do with your system, as to how you approach the install.

First things first.

 

[H20 Toie]

I had someone come in and do all the wiring for my houses so that i would have a great system, last year when i moved i bought the sonos arc sound bar, sub, two small speakers and it took 10 min to hook up, it sounds as good as whole systems i did before,

 

[Bigbore500r]

I wired my whole house with CAT5. I don't really even use it anymore!

Everything is wireless now. Firesticks in every room. Done.

He might be doing something different than what your thinking.

If he wants to run a video matrix, send same source to multiple TV's in sync, or have rooms share the same equipment, he needs to pre-wire with Cat 6.

If he has remote equipment that needs an IR signal - needs to prewire

Control the TV / Audio / lighting with a system like ELAN? Prewire

In ceiling or In wall speakers - Prewire

Having a ton of devices working off Wifi gets problematic, and it usually doesn't take a shit till you have a party with people over and everyone jumps on your wifi, and your TV starts freezing and ruins the UFC fight for everyone.

Even if you don't use 1/2 of it, wire is cheap. Run 4 or 5 Cat6 from your equipment location to each TV (one for internet, one for HDMI, one for audio return, one for IR or "just because". You can always leave them unused in the stud bay behind the TV if you don't put them to use. Easy to pre-wire while the walls are open.

 

[rivermobster]

He might be doing something different than what your thinking.

If he wants to run a video matrix, send same source to multiple TV's in sync, or have rooms share the same equipment, he needs to pre-wire with Cat 6.

If he has remote equipment that needs an IR signal - needs to prewire

Control the TV / Audio / lighting with a system like ELAN? Prewire

In ceiling or In wall speakers - Prewire

Having a ton of devices working off Wifi gets problematic, and it usually doesn't take a shit till you have a party with people over and everyone jumps on your wifi, and your TV starts freezing and ruins the UFC fight for everyone.

Even if you don't use 1/2 of it, wire is cheap. Run 4 or 5 Cat6 from your equipment location to each TV (one for internet, one for HDMI, one for audio return, one for IR or "just because". You can always leave them unused in the stud bay behind the TV if you don't put them to use. Easy to pre-wire while the walls are open.

All true. Knowing the end game First, is what matters.

 

[Bigbore500r]

All true. Knowing the end game First, is what matters.

I have a buddy who is an AV guy. Used to think he was overkill, he'd turn everything into what seemed like a ridiculous amount of shit to accomplish simple stuff. Or so i thought....

He recommended I setup a distributed audio system to play music in all my rooms, and in the detached garage, and backyard (all synced). I was like "dude Alexa can do that, just buy a few and hook them to amps that run my speakers - done!"

Well....Alexa had a bad habit of shitting the bed at the worst times, every time we had a party or something. It would start dropping zones. No matter how good your wifi is, Alexa still talks to it's own server, and Alexa gets "overloaded" on holiday weekends by everybody playing music thru Alexa.

So for the new house, I fought him again.....
I bought Sonos stuff (pricy for what it is). Sounds great, but I still battle glitches and have to power stuff off and on, lose zones from time to time, etc. Then I made the mistake of hooking my Alexa into my sonos....what a nightmare! Deleted all that linkage and its working well again.

I just gutted my downstairs and pre-wired all the TV locations inside and outside, did some home runs back to equipment locations, and added extra wire for future expansion. Ran hardline from router down to my equipment stack , from there I can hardwire the TV's, receivers if needed, amps, etc.

I guess it's all in "how much do you want to do....". Sometimes I think I should just go back to a big ass Pioneer silver face cranking a pair of 15" cerwins, and play it loud as fuck so you can hear it thru the whole house

 

[Slink]

He might be doing something different than what your thinking.

If he wants to run a video matrix, send same source to multiple TV's in sync, or have rooms share the same equipment, he needs to pre-wire with Cat 6.

If he has remote equipment that needs an IR signal - needs to prewire

Control the TV / Audio / lighting with a system like ELAN? Prewire

In ceiling or In wall speakers - Prewire

Having a ton of devices working off Wifi gets problematic, and it usually doesn't take a shit till you have a party with people over and everyone jumps on your wifi, and your TV starts freezing and ruins the UFC fight for everyone.

Even if you don't use 1/2 of it, wire is cheap. Run 4 or 5 Cat6 from your equipment location to each TV (one for internet, one for HDMI, one for audio return, one for IR or "just because". You can always leave them unused in the stud bay behind the TV if you don't put them to use. Easy to pre-wire while the walls are open.

Exactly what I'm looking at...whole house distribution audio video /several zones/ sync TV's......wifi hotspots down at the dock. Don't think wireless will get me there...

 

[gqchris]

Exactly what I'm looking at...whole house distribution audio video /several zones/ sync TV's......wifi hotspots down at the dock. Don't think wireless will get me there...

Wish I was out in TN, (someday soon I hope), We would love to do your cabling.

I agree, cable your house now with Cat6, it will always come in handy for Media, Cameras, Mesh, Backhauls, etc etc.

 

[paradise]

A good WiFi system is pretty good most of the time. except for when it’s not.


best practices: WifI for mobile devices ONLY

If it can be hardwired, connect it via Ethernet/UTP. Make purchasing decision based on what can be hard wired.


I pretty much avoid residential integrations like the plague due to shitty ISPs and interruptions I have no control over are my problem.

I don’t mind working on FTP sites (fiber to the prim) they seem to be a lot more stable but everything else is a crapshoot.


I would never consider running WiFi to any stationary device which could be “hardwired”.

The difference being is I’m an integrator and it cost me money every time I have to roll a truck. If it’s your own house and you know what needs to be power cycled and when, knock yourself out. Personally, I just want to come home, turn on my shit and have it work EVERY time.

Yep!

I have a buddy who is an AV guy. Used to think he was overkill, he'd turn everything into what seemed like a ridiculous amount of shit to accomplish simple stuff. Or so i thought....

He recommended I setup a distributed audio system to play music in all my rooms, and in the detached garage, and backyard (all synced). I was like "dude Alexa can do that, just buy a few and hook them to amps that run my speakers - done!"

Well....Alexa had a bad habit of shitting the bed at the worst times, every time we had a party or something. It would start dropping zones. No matter how good your wifi is, Alexa still talks to it's own server, and Alexa gets "overloaded" on holiday weekends by everybody playing music thru Alexa.

So for the new house, I fought him again.....
I bought Sonos stuff (pricy for what it is). Sounds great, but I still battle glitches and have to power stuff off and on, lose zones from time to time, etc. Then I made the mistake of hooking my Alexa into my sonos....what a nightmare! Deleted all that linkage and its working well again.

I just gutted my downstairs and pre-wired all the TV locations inside and outside, did some home runs back to equipment locations, and added extra wire for future expansion. Ran hardline from router down to my equipment stack , from there I can hardwire the TV's, receivers if needed, amps, etc.

I guess it's all in "how much do you want to do....". Sometimes I think I should just go back to a big ass Pioneer silver face cranking a pair of 15" cerwins, and play it loud as fuck so you can hear it thru the whole house

Most people never come to this realization. They are blind to the blind to how much time they spend working on their own system. "Oh I just need to reset 'X' and it'll be fine"

Getting ready to build my retirement home in TN. I plan on running all my own pre-wiring to a home run location. Just want to make sure I'm running proper wire to the proper locations...also recommendations on equipment. I think WMC and Paradise might be in this field (from previous post). Would like to send someone my home plans and provide what I am looking to do. There are services on line but would rather spend my $$$ on a members business.

Thanks

The guys above have hit on really important points but the most important is trying to define what you want (In my professional opinion). I have unfortunately spent a lot of time working with people that KNEW they wanted a big system but when it came down to it couldn't stomach the price tag.

The integrator world falls into two distinct categories; first, the clients we usually win that want everything done for them and are willing to pay whatever it costs to have a system that is consistently reliable, very easy to use and (most importantly) that is SUPPORTED by a single company. The second is the more DIY side that thinks paying 5 times more for what they can do with Alexa and Sonos is crazy!

So what is the difference between what person 1 and 2 gets-

Integration/Ease of use: Person 1 gets all their systems integrated into a single app with one interface that is easy to use. There is one remote that controls all the AV systems, with the same interface. The same interface is on any touch panels throughout the house. Person 2 gets multiple different apps, each with their own interface and they get to use even more third party tools (IFTTT) to make them try and work together.

Functionality: As far as I know there is no consumer system that will control an AVR, TV and cable box or streaming box. Person 1 gets a truly integrated solution, whether it means dropping the lights, closing the shades, turning on and controlling the AV equipment or scenes for their enjoyment. Person 2, again needs multiple apps. This may be the best time to point out that what some people do with their consumer systems is AMAZING and I would never attempt to do it for a client. The automation some people do is really impressive, but is not supportable for a company so I am not saying Person 2 is a bad guy or has an inferior system, just that it isn't sustainable for a company which leads us to:

Problems: When something stops working, person 1 sends a text to a competent technician that can remote in quickly and resolve the problem, or a truck will be rolled to resolve the problem. Person 2 has to try rebooting things themselves or google a solution. Many times it's easy, but it sucks when it happens during the superbowl...

There is NOTHING wrong with either of these approaches. They both have different goals and different budgets. If you can try to define which of these people you are (and be honest with yourself) you'll be in a much better position to have an honest discussion with a local integrator.

With that in mind, if you think you might be Person 1 you should 1000% go find a local integrator you like and want to work with. There are going to be lots of options on which control system you want, what subsystems you want and what will be needed to complete your project successfully. If you can define those now you'll be much better off than a generic wiring plan from a third party will ever get you. On the other hand if you feel like you fall into bracket 2, a generic plan will work just fine. As Joe said, you can do a lot of it wirelessly, but be prepared for more tweaking that will fall on your shoulders. Sonos, Apple, Roku, Denon, Sony don't have ANY interest in talking to you...

For a "Person 1" budget, to do a 4 bedroom house 'right' with audio, video, climate, some lighting control and surveillance is going to cost at least $100k. And it's worth it...

 

[paradise]

Exactly what I'm looking at...whole house distribution audio video /several zones/ sync TV's......wifi hotspots down at the dock. Don't think wireless will get me there...

Nice, sounds like you are starting to define what you want and it sounds like you need an integrator. I can tell you exactly how we would do it, which will be different than how every other guy wants it. I HATE coming in to a house that has been 'prewired'. It invariably doesn't have something I need but has a bunch of extra crap. Or it's been wired so the living room speakers are all wired to the living room. Great, except I want my receivers in the rack.

Save yourself the headache, find a local integrator and work with them NOW, not later. If you want me to reach out for people local to you I'd be happy to put out some feelers.

 

[MPHSystems]

For a "Person 1" budget, to do a 4 bedroom house 'right' with audio, video, climate, some lighting control and surveillance is going to cost at least $100k. And it's worth it...

Yep, sounds about right. I avoid residential like the plague. Occasionally I’ll get roped into it but the owner or a principle of one of my regular commercial or industrial clients. I only instal Sonos, Yamah on very rare occasions but now that the sonos connects offer subwoofer outs, unless I walk on a job that’s already flush with MusicCast it’s sonos and for lighting, window treatment and environmental controls, it’s RadioRa. That’s 2 panes of glass. Unles you want Control4 +$+ four single pane of glass.

 

[paradise]

Yep, sounds about right. I avoid residential like the plague. Occasionally I’ll get roped into it but the owner or a principle of one of my regular commercial or industrial clients. I only instal Sonos, Yamah on very rare occasions but now that the sonos connects offer subwoofer outs, unless I walk on a job that’s already flush with MusicCast it’s sonos and for lighting, window treatment and environmental controls, it’s RadioRa. That’s 2 panes of glass. Unles you want Control4 +$+ four single pane of glass.

Yeah we’re about 50-50 commercial and residential for our AV division but fortunately the residential projects we’ll go after are typically much larger. I‘ve found it’s the smaller jobs that create the biggest headaches for us. A $1 million job that we’re involved in from the beginning will usually have fewer Service calls than a $50,000 retro where we have to work around other peoples design choices or existing equipment. It makes it tough to justify those mid size projects.

I hate Sonos and not a C4 fan either so I’ll just “no comment” there

The residential side is definitely a unique business...

 

[MPHSystems]

I hate Sonos and not a C4 fan either so I’ll just “no comment” there

The residential side is definitely a unique business...

I’m actually not a C4 fan either, but people know what it is. I’ve done a couple compass control systems, I don’t do enough to become a Crestron dealer. And it’s not what I’m aiming for.

I do like Sonos, it’s apple intuitive to use. I do not get calls saying “how do I do X” with sonos, it just works, sounds pretty good and looks very nice. It’s also “apple restrictive” if they don’t make it, you don’t need it attitude. I only get about 20 points off retail, but that’s enough to make some money on the job + labor because it’s not whored out. One thing about sonos, their SW upgrades NEVER cause me to roll a truck, I can’t say that about any other manufacture I’ve used.


And you’re right, it’s the little specialty things that “my friend’s house did” that cause all the headaches. Did your friend mention how much time he spent dicking with X to get it to work? Or how it screws up all the time?