Any Sand Car Guys Here?

[pkrrvr619]

Going to gleams in the sxs is starting to get a bit boring especially after watching the long travel cars zip around the dunes.

I would like to keep the sxs for desert riding and for the wife in the dunes and am looking at getting a sand car for next season. While in the dunes this past weekend I spoke to a group of FUNCO owners that had turbo subi engines in their rigs and they said nothing but positive things about the brand.

The guys with the v8 long travel cars had completely differing opinions on the matter and swear by the LS type engines.

Any sand car guys on here that have an opinion?

I dont have a crazy budget (45k max) and dont need to be the fastest guy at the drags or up the hill. I just want a fun car that will start each time I head out to the sand.

I know these are going to cost more in maintenance than a sxs and dont have a problem with that.

what say y'all?

 

[Racer56]

Look for a used Alumicraft with a LS Motor and a real trans. IMO best setup you can own.

 

[Joe mama]

Just want a fun car that starts each time you head to the sand dunes?
That would be a side x side.

 

[wsuwrhr]

A turbo Subie package has a low Center of Gravity, and because of that it will handle the best in the dunes, in my opinion. A Subaru will make PLENTY of power. Can use a little cheaper gearbox than a V8. Someone on here was selling a pretty nice setup one at one time, I don't know if it ever sold.

LS1 sounds cool and everyone likes them, problem is they make a bunch more torque, and will put a hurt on parts, even on the best gearbox. Even if you are careful.


Either way, the CVs and gearbox will need to be maintained and torn down, with either powerplant, at least every other season to have a look at the bearings and CVs if you use it often, especially if you drive it hard.

Where are you located?

Outfront Motorsports is in the Brea area and does Subaru engines and everything else you need. May even have a line on cars for sale.

C&G Performance in Fontana is another source for Subaru and LS1 engines.

 

[Rbcconst]

45k will get you a great car. My suggestion is to stick with a well known car builder. I would be searching for a car with the 4d trans and an ls1 with 450hp to the rear wheels. I have a desert dynamics and think it’s a great car, there stance is wide and handles great in the dunes. A friend went from a platinum extreme to a desert dynamics and said the desert dynamics was a better dunning car and has every bit of ride as the platinum did.


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[Meaney77]

Tatums and Buckshots are always nice too...!

 

[Icky]

This is pretty
https://classifieds.race-dezert.com/ad-details.php?category=69&adid=136831

 

[wsuwrhr]

Depending on your trailer width, if you want to trailer it on paddles, you may want to take a tape measure with you. Most cars are pretty wide nowadays. Sometimes the rear tires need to be taken off and skinnys put on and the front suspension "tied up" to narrow it up a bit to pass by the door opening and clear on the inside.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Some of the turbo Subarus need race gas or E85, where the LS will run on 91, so just be aware of that going in, as you’ll likely have to bring in your own fuel for the weekend.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Good point...I would think that would go without saying, but you are correct sir.

I would imagine anyone running a turbo would be running racegas at a min.

Some of the turbo Subarus need race gas or E85, where the LS will run on 91, so just be aware of that going in, as you’ll likely have to bring in your own fuel for the weekend.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Good point...I would think that would go without saying, but you are correct sir.

I would imagine anyone running a turbo would be running racegas at a min.

E85 or race gas is just extra theatrics you need to go through before your trip is all. If you have an E85 station nearby or at least on your route, it might not be a big deal - Just something to think about before your decision on a car.

 

[Gelcoater]

Good point...I would think that would go without saying, but you are correct sir.

I would imagine anyone running a turbo would be running racegas at a min.

My buddies car runs E85 with good luck.
It might be for sale soon, well below the OP’s budget.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Good point...I would think that would go without saying, but you are correct sir.

I would imagine anyone running a higher HP 300-600HP turbo that doesn't want it to detonate and self destruct would be running an intercooler and racegas at a min.

Damn. It. Got to be a lawyer around here.

 

[wsuwrhr]

View attachment 628506
View attachment 628507
My buddies car runs E85 with good luck.
It might be for sale soon, well below the OP’s budget.

What motor is in that? some kind of blow thru V6?

 

[Gelcoater]

What motor is in that? some kind of blow thru V6?

Yes

GM 4.3, Brodix heads, not sure who’s efi?

 

[wsuwrhr]

E85 would be a bit more forgiving on boost, compared to racegas for sure, but the OP doesn't sound like he is well versed on sandrail stuff. Any boosted engine with no intercooler will be something that needs a driver and knowledge of what to do so things don't go bad.

My buddies car runs E85 with good luck.
It might be for sale soon, well below the OP’s budget.

 

[77charger]

Ls type you will want the s4 or bigger trans.IMO i think the subis are great make good power lower center gravity and a 2d will last a while behind the subi.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Iv got an SU w a subi putting out over 400 to the wheels, with a 4s2d, weighs in at 1600lbs, Run it on e85
Super light, low center of gravity, dunes like a slot car, can jump and pulls the front end up when I want.
Iv hurt a lot of LS groupie feelings in glamis.
Look up halum Motorsports (sodemizer I believe on here and IG ) he usually has multiple cars in the range you’re looking at and is a solid dude and knows desert toys well. The red SU listed and some others on first page of Race-dezert are him.
Funco’s are damn near the perfect car for dunes especially with subi power.
The newer funcos are equally great with any power but your amount would be a down payment at that point.
Can also depend on what you like doing in glamis, dunes, drags, wheelies etc...
John from outfront is in Buena Park not brea. And he is by far the best go to guy for anything subi powered.

 

[Rbcconst]

Depending on your trailer width, if you want to trailer it on paddles, you may want to take a tape measure with you. Most cars are pretty wide nowadays. Sometimes the rear tires need to be taken off and skinnys put on and the front suspension "tied up" to narrow it up a bit to pass by the door opening and clear on the inside.

I second this. I have to change all 4 on my desert dynamics to pull it in. When I get a winch I can put it in backwards and only change the backs. I believe the Tatum black widow will fit into most trailers with all the sand tires on however the back seat is narrow.


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[wsuwrhr]

Yea, sorry, brea was off the top of my head guess.

Close enough.

John from outfront is in Buena Park not brea. And he is by far the best go to guy for anything subi powered.

 

[TITTIES AND BEER]

I went this route 31k 95 mph ( only had it to 60 so far ) I was told these are out running sand cars

 

[wsuwrhr]

They both have a B and E in them.

Yea, sorry, brea was off the top of my head guess.

Close enough.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Good luck getting a v8 guy in the dunes to admit that.

I think the number is around 700hp for a v8 to overcome its increased weight to compete with the subarus weight with 400hp in the sand.

Iv hurt a lot of LS groupie feelings in glamis.

 

[CLdrinker]

Look for a used Alumicraft with a LS Motor and a real trans. IMO best setup you can own.

He said 45k

 

[CLdrinker]

Tatum, SCU, SU, Funco, Buckshot are all good. Your budget is at the low end of getting a car with a V8 and sequential trans. A V8 and a 2D is ok around 450HP just don’t charge the whoops hard it side step the clutch.

Subi’s are great but allot of them run race fuel around 400/450HPish.

The Honda 3.5 is good option as well.

Remember 4 and 6 cyl cars will have be on the lighter side.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Good luck getting a v8 guy in the dunes to admit that.

I think the number is around 700hp for a v8 to overcome its increased weight to compete with the subarus weight with 400hp in the sand.

Right and if you talk to em, they’ve all got over 500hp to the wheels, lmao
I probably raced 30 + rails the last trip, only thing that could even hang was a razor with busa motor in it. They either wanted to stop me and see what I had, or left with their tale between their legs, lol
And in most cases the big dogs can’t dune for shit because they can’t keep the front end down.
Now that doesn’t include newer funcos, tatums, racer engineering, etc, I pick my battles

Edit: also yes if 350hp + w a subi you should be running race or e85.
By far cheaper to run e85 over race or even regular gas. And you can load up in Beaumont or el Centro on the way out to glamis.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Yep....a v-8 with 500 or 600HP wont do it in the sand for sure.

If the v8 is wearing a blower or a couple hairdryers then you need to pick your battles alright.

My perfect car would be a 3.6 6cyl Subaru with about 10-15lbs of boost. good for around 600hp and still have a conservative tune in it. Mid engine if I didn't need a rear seat would be even sweeter.

Not enough garages.

Brian

Right and if you talk to em, they’ve all got over 500hp to the wheels, lmao
I probably raced 30 + rails the last trip, only thing that could even hang was a razor with busa motor in it. They either wanted to stop me and see what I had, or left with their tale between their legs, lol
And in most cases the big dogs can’t dune for shit because they can’t keep the front end down.
Now that doesn’t include newer funcos, tatums, racer engineering, etc, I pick my battles

 

[Melloyellovector]

Yep....500 or 600HP wont do it..

If the v8 is wearing a blower or a couple hairdryers then you need to pick your battles alright.

Right biggest thing is guys really have no idea what they have, most LS’s out there are 400 range but only getting closer to 300 to the wheels, making it a heavy pig that only sounds good, lol

 

[done]

I have owned a honda v6 long travel, LS one two seater long travel car,,,, sold them all and bought a Can am X3 XRS, Disconnected the front sway bar and it is the
best dunning car i ever owned, Before you buy anything get rides in all the different options.

 

[wsuwrhr]

The V8 cars make way more torque and don't have to lean on it as hard for sure. But the CG will always be way higher on a v8 car and no amount of horsepower can change that.

Brian

Right biggest thing is guys really have no idea what they have, most LS’s out there are 400 range but only getting closer to 300 to the wheels, making it a heavy pig that only sounds good, lol

 

[TCHB]

View attachment 628555 I went this route 31k 95 mph ( only had it to 60 so far ) I was told these are out running sand cars

Nope these 1000cc machines are no match for most of the sand cars. I have ridden is a a couple sand cars and was suprised at the power and suspensions flying around the dunes.

 

[joey]

35k obo for this alumicraft, ls1 410hp,mendeola 2d trans, 934 cvs

 

[530RL]

I've got an old Tatum with a twin turbo LS and an albins.

I doubt it is worth 45k used. They depreciate like a safe in a swinging pool.

I'd call Rich at Tatum and see if he has any customers upgrading that want to sell the older stuff. Although I have a 2 seater, 4 seaters are more popular and there are a lot more available.

The one thing I would not skimp on is the transaxle. You'll spend more money fixing and maintaining transaxles than engines. Finding one with an Albins will save you a lot of money.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Just buy a nice clean car with these basics, 8 shocks, and the biggest trans you can afford. Stay away from vw and 2d trans, your budget will get you a great car.

 

[Bigbore500r]

The biggest hurdle in your price range is transmission. A 2d / 4D Mendola isn’t much better than a built bus trans, and they use the same ring and pinion anyhow. And reverse gear is basically only for use on flat ground....

If your going with an LS powered rail I’d want an S4 or comporable trans, or you’ll be babying it and tearing it down frequently to try and catch it before it blows. If you run a Subi, V6 Honda, small northstar (Aurora Motor) etc they work well with a built bus trans setup or a 2D / 4D.

Aside from the other cars mentioned, check out Sandrail Fabricators. They build a killer car that can dual sport and dune, everything mounted double shear and good geometry. Overbuilt when compared to much of the competition, and their prices are reasonable.

I have a rzr because I know I can’t afford the sandcar I’d want.

 

[glamis0812]

The biggest hurdle in your price range is transmission. A 2d / 4D Mendola isn’t much better than a built bus trans, and they use the same ring and pinion anyhow. And reverse gear is basically only for use on flat ground....

If your going with an LS powered rail I’d want an S4 or comporable trans, or you’ll be babying it and tearing it down frequently to try and catch it before it blows. If you run a Subi, V6 Honda, small northstar (Aurora Motor) etc they work well with a built bus trans setup or a 2D / 4D.

Aside from the other cars mentioned, check out Sandrail Fabricators. They build a killer car that can dual sport and dune, everything mounted double shear and good geometry. Overbuilt when compared to much of the competition, and their prices are reasonable.

I have a rzr because I know I can’t afford the sandcar I’d want.

A 2d and a S4 have the same ring and pinion, not the bus box

 

[Melloyellovector]

A 2d and a S4 have the same ring and pinion, not the bus box

Correct
the 2E or Ebox mendeola is pretty much the same as a bus trans.
I know this because when I got my rail I saw mendeola and assumed it was 2d ( so did everyone that touched or worked on it ) but I cooked that bitch quick with my stupid driving, lol
Orig was ebox, now 2d

 

[Bigbore500r]

A 2d and a S4 have the same ring and pinion, not the bus box

Oops meant E boxes.

 

[pkrrvr619]

This is why RDP is such a great resource.

Thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated. Exactly what I was looking for. I am down in the San Diego area if anyone knows any shops I should be speaking to about maintnenece etc.

Basically from what I have read:
v8 car run a s4 or better
subi with turbo is gonna eat race gas and or e85
buy the most transaxle my money can buy (albins and fortins being the premier transaxles)
the width is not going to be that big of an issue as my toy hauler has a slide so ill most likely be putting the sand car on a flat bed trailer
stick with name brand builders.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Good advice for sure.

The 2D/4D has a better case, it is slightly better because of that.

Forget a VW/bus trans for anything besides a VW.

The biggest hurdle in your price range is transmission. A 2d / 4D Mendola isn’t much better than a built bus trans, and they use the same ring and pinion anyhow. And reverse gear is basically only for use on flat ground....

If your going with an LS powered rail I’d want an S4 or comporable trans, or you’ll be babying it and tearing it down frequently to try and catch it before it blows. If you run a Subi, V6 Honda, small northstar (Aurora Motor) etc they work well with a built bus trans setup or a 2D / 4D.

Aside from the other cars mentioned, check out Sandrail Fabricators. They build a killer car that can dual sport and dune, everything mounted double shear and good geometry. Overbuilt when compared to much of the competition, and their prices are reasonable.

I have a rzr because I know I can’t afford the sandcar I’d want.

 

[Wadernation]

so are you going to have two tow rigs again? haha just sell the truck and trailer and Rv it with a flatbed

 

[02HoWaRd26]

52k firm Tatum. PBS S4 and built CBM LS fast and well prepped for whatever you throw at it

 

[Rbcconst]

This is why RDP is such a great resource.

Thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated. Exactly what I was looking for. I am down in the San Diego area if anyone knows any shops I should be speaking to about maintnenece etc.

Basically from what I have read:
v8 car run a s4 or better
subi with turbo is gonna eat race gas and or e85
buy the most transaxle my money can buy (albins and fortins being the premier transaxles)
the width is not going to be that big of an issue as my toy hauler has a slide so ill most likely be putting the sand car on a flat bed trailer
stick with name brand builders.

Glamisdunes.com has a classified section and they usually have a few nice cars on there. And race-dezert.com also has a classifieds section with a few nice cars.


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[EmpirE231]

My first car was a long travel w/ 3.5 turbo honda and an e-box. It was fun and had a lot of power... re-did that whole car and went to an LS1 with the 2D and it was a lot more fun! Hard to beat the ease of drive-ability of an LS1 in the dunes. don't get me wrong, the honda did all the same stuff, but you had to "drive" the car a lot harder. The easiest comparison is like riding a 125cc 2 stroke dirt bike vs a 450cc four stroker.... torque! the power is always right there when you want it.

as long as you don't go bigger than a mild LS1 (400-450HP), and no bigger than a 33" tire... a 2d will treat you just fine. of course an S4 will be better, but don't get hung up on thinking you can't have a reliable 2D/LS based car.... what it really comes down to breaking a 2D is a combination of the following... 1. weight of the car (don't get a heavy pig) 2. tire size... don't try to run the big 36-38" paddles 3. engine power and driving style... you hear the horror stories about 2D's online, but in our direct group, the only 2 that ever had issues were when they had to tow another heavy car out of the dunes. I never had a problem with the 2d, my buddy is going on 8 seasons with his, and he actually had about 700hp crank HP. even had another friend that always backed his 2D car onto a tall flat bed and never broke the "dreaded" reverse gear.

my new car is an LS2 w/ S4... love the sequential...and you might be able to find that combo in your price range.... but will be hard to find a clean one that doesn't need other work at that price point. if you stretch to around 55k+ you will start finding some nicer ones in that range. but don't be afraid of a nice 2D car as long as it's balanced right.

 

[glamis0812]

My first car was a long travel w/ 3.5 turbo honda and an e-box. It was fun and had a lot of power... re-did that whole car and went to an LS1 with the 2D and it was a lot more fun! Hard to beat the ease of drive-ability of an LS1 in the dunes. don't get me wrong, the honda did all the same stuff, but you had to "drive" the car a lot harder. The easiest comparison is like riding a 125cc 2 stroke dirt bike vs a 450cc four stroker.... torque! the power is always right there when you want it.

as long as you don't go bigger than a mild LS1 (400-450HP), and no bigger than a 33" tire... a 2d will treat you just fine. of course an S4 will be better, but don't get hung up on thinking you can't have a reliable 2D/LS based car.... what it really comes down to breaking a 2D is a combination of the following... 1. weight of the car (don't get a heavy pig) 2. tire size... don't try to run the big 36-38" paddles 3. engine power and driving style... you hear the horror stories about 2D's online, but in our direct group, the only 2 that ever had issues were when they had to tow another heavy car out of the dunes. I never had a problem with the 2d, my buddy is going on 8 seasons with his, and he actually had about 700hp crank HP. even had another friend that always backed his 2D car onto a tall flat bed and never broke the "dreaded" reverse gear.

my new car is an LS2 w/ S4... love the sequential...and you might be able to find that combo in your price range.... but will be hard to find a clean one that doesn't need other work at that price point. if you stretch to around 55k+ you will start finding some nicer ones in that range. but don't be afraid of a nice 2D car as long as it's balanced right.

Perfect explanation, I’ve had a few LS/2d combos and I wouldn’t hesitate to own another.

 

[TITTIES AND BEER]

Glamisdunes.com has a classified section and they usually have a few nice cars on there. And race-dezert.com also has a classifieds section with a few nice cars.


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You must have to register? To see

 

[Rbcconst]

You must have to register? To see

That sounds right. I don’t think it takes long to get approved. I don’t remember, I’ve been on there for a while. Not quite as easy to use as rdp but it’s cool.


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[TITTIES AND BEER]

That sounds right. I don’t think it takes long to get approved. I don’t remember, I’ve been on there for a while. Not quite as easy to use as rdp but it’s cool.


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I was on there about 10 ? Years ago I’ll see if I can get back in , thanks

 

[Rbcconst]

I was on there about 10 ? Years ago I’ll see if I can get back in , thanks

I will keep an eye out. I know there are a few good cars out there. There is a sandco on Glamis Dunes for 48k might be able to offer 45k. It has all the components you would want.


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[02HoWaRd26]

That sounds right. I don’t think it takes long to get approved. I don’t remember, I’ve been on there for a while. Not quite as easy to use as rdp but it’s cool.


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GD was my absolute go to for my time wasted daily. But once they changed the format i got fed up after a few days and haven’t been back hardly at all. The format was just not what i was used to and well things there started to suck. However at least there’s no admitted LibTards over there.