Another pool question.

[Mr. C]

Why when my pump is running.( left pump is the main and right is jacuzzi jets) No air is in the lines or bubbles coming out the returns in the pool.
Would my filter not be constantly full. Lately. If you open the breather valve on the filter

after it’s been running for hours. There is air in the filter.
Never in 24 years has this happened. Just the last couple months

And yes the hammer is there for when I get frustrated

 

[Good Stuff]

Cheap fixes could be a bad seal on the pump basket lids or cracked vacuum hose or vacuum climbing up to the top of the pool. Or low water level drawing air into the skimmer but I’m guessing that would be noticed easily.

 

[Sawtooth]

There looks to be water staining on the return side of the pump. When the pump shuts off it can slowly back siphon sucking air into the system so when it turns back on it still catches its prime but the filter has had time to have air introduced.
Check the fitting out of the top of the pump and or replace the o ring in that union coupler. I see the ground is wet but you may have cleaned the pump basket or hosed down. Could also be a pump seal but I think you would notice the water on the ground every time the pump ran.

 

[Mr. C]

There looks to be water staining on the return side of the pump. When the pump shuts off it can slowly back siphon sucking air into the system so when it turns back on it still catches its prime but the filter has had time to have air introduced.
Check the fitting out of the top of the pump and or replace the o ring in that union coupler. I see the ground is wet but you may have cleaned the pump basket or hosed down. Could also be a pump seal but I think you would notice the water on the ground every time the pump ran.

The pumps are 24 yrs old and have had leaks and other minor stuff fixed. I’ll dig more into the top fitting
There is no water on the ground at anytime.
I had just done some cleaning and hosed down a bit before the pic

 

[Melloyellovector]

Most common culprit is the 3way valve cap and stem orings and pot lid oring.
either when pump running will suck air into the system. Initially will do minor and air into filter, eventually will get air into pot when pump off then it will struggle to prime.

turn pump on and off and see if there is any blips of water drops anywhere. Also listen if you can hear any aeration noises in those areas
if they haven’t been replaced in years, just buy o-rings and replace.

next would be nipple inlet and outlet on pumps, if pump has ever ran dry, or ran with packed basket. Super heats the water and pipes and will shrink threads. Minor time frame minor leak. Ran for long times they can shrink to lose all contact

lastly if you have an automatic cleaner. Hoses get old and brittle, they leak air at connections between every hose. pump will flow normal but it siphons air into the system while pump running. disconnect cleaner and re check. If air stops then replace hoses

 

[Mr. C]

Most common culprit is the 3way valve cap and stem orings and pot lid oring.
either when pump running will suck air into the system. Initially will do minor and air into filter, eventually will get air into pot when pump off then it will struggle to prime.

turn pump on and off and see if there is any blips of water drops anywhere. Also listen if you can hear any aeration noises in those areas
if they haven’t been replaced in years, just buy o-rings and replace.

next would be nipple inlet and outlet on pumps, if pump has ever ran dry, or ran with packed basket. Super heats the water and pipes and will shrink threads. Minor time frame minor leak. Ran for long times they can shrink to lose all contact

lastly if you have an automatic cleaner. Hoses get old and brittle, they leak air at connections between every hose. pump will flow normal but it siphons air into the system while pump running. disconnect cleaner and re check. If air stops then replace hoses

Thank you. Late response. I have recently changed the 3- way valves. I don’t hear any air or see any leakage but will just replace those o-rings to be sure.
And will remove the automatic oool sweep now to see what happens in the morning.

Next stupid question. Will a pump slowly lose power /suction/ flow. Or will it just die?

And would the initial issue I’m working be causing these air bubbles.
And no. I don’t lose water in the pool. Zero leakage other than norm evaporation

 

[Mr. C]

O rings changed on the 3-ways and the check valve.
Air bubbles on the returns in pool seem to have stopped as well.

 

[Melloyellovector]

single speed pumps typically work or don’t. They don’t slow down. Impeller is same as a jet boat. Only way flow decreases is filter dirty creating back pressure or basket cracked and debris got past basket and clogged veins in impeller ( pepper tree peppers are great at clogging impellers )
But If veins clogged speed wouldn’t increase until you cleared the veins. usually not a easy process

 

[Mr. C]

single speed pumps typically work or don’t. They don’t slow down. Impeller is same as a jet boat. Only way flow decreases is filter dirty creating back pressure or basket cracked and debris got past basket and clogged veins in impeller ( pepper tree peppers are great at clogging impellers )
But If veins clogged speed wouldn’t increase until you cleared the veins. usually not a easy process

Which brings my best question.
Just cleaned the filters and when I added the DE it all just went back into the pool. So I checked the the filters again and saw this.
With the back flush closed no water reaches the top of the filters.
With it open you can see it does.

Is this possible the pump is clogged? It doesn’t appear so as the spill over has the same amount as always. . Or more of a back flow valve issue.
I can’t check more until Saturday so it is what it is for now.

Or is it just time to call the pool service

 

[Melloyellovector]

View attachment 1435607

Which brings my best question.
Just cleaned the filters and when I added the DE it all just went back into the pool. So I checked the the filters again and saw this.
With the back flush closed no water reaches the top of the filters.
With it open you can see it does.

Is this possible the pump is clogged? It doesn’t appear so as the spill over has the same amount as always. . Or more of a back flow valve issue.
I can’t check more until Saturday so it is what it is for now.

Or is it just time to call the pool service
View attachment 1435604

View attachment 1435608

The filter is a pressure vessel. So with it open water can’t get to top of grids.
in filter mode water fills tank and is forced from outside of grids through to inside of grid back into pool.

if DE is coming out the returns either manifold cracked or missing air release screen on top of manifold, or grid torn, or oring missing on stand pipe that manifold sits on top of. For a quick fix ( and I shouldn’t suggest because it’s janky ) if you don’t want to get manifold now you can put epoxy over the hole. Then buy manifold to replace next time you have filter apart to clean.
no pic of top of manifold where water is free flowing out of it. Hard to tell in video if screen missing or hole on manifold but I’d say that’s your problem
if your running pump until you fix, remember to re clean grids after fixing or replacing manifold. grids with out DE can get clogged in 1 filter cycle.

once system back together, check your filter pressure. If its in normal range, it’s likely not clogged. Clogged impeller or suction line pump will be considerably louder then normal and pressure will drop. If clogged after the filter pressure will go up higher

 

[Mr. C]

The filter is a pressure vessel. So with it open water can’t get to top of grids.
in filter mode water fills tank and is forced from outside of grids through to inside of grid back into pool.

if DE is coming out the returns either manifold cracked or missing air release screen on top of manifold, or grid torn, or oring missing on stand pipe that manifold sits on top of. For a quick fix ( and I shouldn’t suggest because it’s janky ) if you don’t want to get manifold now you can put epoxy over the hole. Then buy manifold to replace next time you have filter apart to clean.
no pic of top of manifold where water is free flowing out of it. Hard to tell in video if screen missing or hole on manifold but I’d say that’s your problem
if your running pump until you fix, remember to re clean grids after fixing or replacing manifold. grids with out DE can get clogged in 1 filter cycle.

once system back together, check your filter pressure. If its in normal range, it’s likely not clogged. Clogged impeller or suction line pump will be considerably louder then normal and pressure will drop. If clogged after the filter pressure will go up higher

Thank you for all the info. I really appreciate it.
I’ll check what you’ve said. And hope I can fix it.
I’m hoping I missed a ripped filter or cracked manifold.

 

[Mr. C]

well I’m close to my wits end.
I have one more thing I’m going try and then it’s a phone call.
So I have a new air pressure valve and and gauge. (Just because) that will go on.
And thinking about it after the last few back flushes that shaft is a bitch to get all the way up and back down. And now notice a few a drops of water from the top.

I know it has 3 flanges inside and I’m wondering if one has broken or the ring has just given up ( has in the past and I break the Fr getting it out) so I have new one ordered before I get into that. Have triple checked pump connections and rings and tops.

The most baffling thing to me is after I let all the air of the filter. With the pump running. The filter still loses water and gets air in it. I mean. WTF.
I get a small leak will let drain when off but???

 

[paradise]

Not a pool guy, but based on your last note that it gets air while running, the only place I would think you could get air into your system is on the suction side of the pump. Anything on the pressure side can be ignored.

If you rotate your 3 way valves while running can you see any bubbles in the pump basket? May be able to narrow down the issue.

 

[Mr. C]

Not a pool guy, but based on your last note that it gets air while running, the only place I would think you could get air into your system is on the suction side of the pump. Anything on the pressure side can be ignored.

If you rotate your 3 way valves while running can you see any bubbles in the pump basket? May be able to narrow down the issue.

I dont remember seeing any bubbles in the pump.
Whether valves are open for pool circulation or just the jacuzzi the filter drops
I’ve even switched caps on both pumps. Same thing.
More to check I guess.

 

[Melloyellovector]

The only places at equipment that can suck in air. Inlet valve, inlet nipple in front of pump, lid oring, and drain plug at bottom of pot.
valve, lid, and drain plug are all orings
those 80s nipples are likely your problem, cut out and replace with pump unions ( oring seal, not sensitive to shrink from heat )

other then that, most common is suction side cleaner hose. But looking at pics you have a Polaris booster pump return style cleaner. last and also common is skimmer connection leak, or cracked pipe between skimmer and pump. But you’d be losing water in pool if either was broke.

if this had always happened, then I’d say its cavitation creating the air in filter. But since you say this is new problem it has to be one of the above. Well, unless you have something blocking suction pipe line, it would also cavitate. You would be able to verify on filter gauge, and or feeling suction at skimmer would feel way less sucky lol

 

[Mr. C]

The only places at equipment that can suck in air. Inlet valve, inlet nipple in front of pump, lid oring, and drain plug at bottom of pot.
valve, lid, and drain plug are all orings
those 80s nipples are likely your problem, cut out and replace with pump unions ( oring seal, not sensitive to shrink from heat )

other then that, most common is suction side cleaner hose. But looking at pics you have a Polaris booster pump return style cleaner. last and also common is skimmer connection leak, or cracked pipe between skimmer and pump. But you’d be losing water in pool if either was broke.

if this had always happened, then I’d say its cavitation creating the air in filter. But since you say this is new problem it has to be one of the above. Well, unless you have something blocking suction pipe line, it would also cavitate. You would be able to verify on filter gauge, and or feeling suction at skimmer would feel way less sucky lol View attachment 1437907 View attachment 1437917 View attachment 1437918

I’ll check out all the above again.
I’m looking at a new variable pump for the pool so I’ll cut out those old nipples when that is done.
Do I need a 3hp variable for 24k gallon pool.
I think that’s what mine are now.
I’m just going to go get new lid rings and one for the bottom of the pot.
Again. Thank you for the input

 

[Melloyellovector]

I’ll check out all the above again.
I’m looking at a new variable pump for the pool so I’ll cut out those old nipples when that is done.
Do I need a 3hp variable for 24k gallon pool.
I think that’s what mine are now.
I’m just going to go get new lid rings and one for the bottom of the pot.
Again. Thank you for the input

With 2in plumbing, you do not need 3hp vs. it’s overkill and you would never get full flow/speed out of it.
look at 011533 2hp vs pump it will line up same as existing