And We Have Come Full Circle-Afghanistan

[regor]

Taliban Marks 2 Year Anniversary Of Return To Power In Afghanistan With 'Victory' Holiday​

Chants were heard of "death to the Westerners, death to the Americans..."

TUE AUG 15, AT 3:05 PM


And the winner is, the War Machine....................just like they knew it would be!!!!!

Imagine having a kid, parent or spouse who lost their life in that hell hole?


The den of thieves..................................now on to Ukraine.

 

[94Nautique]

Taliban Marks 2 Year Anniversary Of Return To Power In Afghanistan With 'Victory' Holiday​

Chants were heard of "death to the Westerners, death to the Americans..."

TUE AUG 15, AT 3:05 PM


And the winner is, the War Machine....................just like they knew it would be!!!!!

Imagine having a kid, parent or spouse who lost their life in that hell hole?


The den of thieves..................................now on to Ukraine.

View attachment 1265283

If Afghanistan is the den of thieves, the current White House must be the kitchen…

 

[Racey]

"Protecting democracy" -530

 

[regor]

"Protecting democracy" -530

Now do Iraq!!!!

 

[530RL]

I guess that surrender agreement negotiated in Doha didn’t work out so well.

 

[Wedgy]

I guess that surrender agreement negotiated in Doha didn’t work out so well.

I know right? Almost like the new Greedy AF Shady Stealership Owner fucked up another good deal by screwing the pooch. Looks like a pattern of behavior...

 

[TeamGreene]

I guess that surrender agreement negotiated in Doha didn’t work out so well.

Was it the negotiated agreement or execution of said agreement? Big difference. But your obtuse holier than thou ass knows that. Douche

 

[Wedgy]

Great name for his shiny new black Beemer, the Douchemobile. Or, buy a boat dealership and call it DoucheCraft...

 

[TeamGreene]

Great name for his shiny new black Beemer, the Douchemobile. Or, buy a boat dealership and call it DoucheCraft...

Fuck him I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. Just hope he was down wind so the stench would blow the other way.

 

[CigAjerk]

I guess that surrender agreement negotiated in Doha didn’t work out so well.

Surrender agreement? It's actually referred to as "Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan".

Over a year and half Trump was in negotiations with the Taliban where he told them to sit on their hands until we were out. During the talks the Tali's decided to kill a US service member and Trump threatened to walk away. Tali's played nice for a while and they finally agreed. The "Surrender" as you like to put it, the US gets the opportunity to get our shit out and tali's won't do a damn thing about it but watch.

Section 1 of part 2 lays this out pretty well. 1. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will not allow any of its members, other individuals or groups, including al-Qa’ida, to use the soil of Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies.

“I really believe the Taliban wants to do something to show that we’re not all wasting time,” Trump said as he announced the agreement. He added as an aside: “If bad things happen, we’ll go back with a force like no one’s ever seen.”

Fast forward, your vote looks at the original agreement completely different than what it actually was, convinces you to go push the same narrative and we're supposed to think you can think for yourself? “The choice I had to make, as your president, was either to follow through on that agreement or be prepared to go back to fighting the Taliban in the middle of the spring fighting season,” Biden said.

Wasn't that hard to just agree with Trump, hold up to the negotiated terms, withdraw and take some of the credit for executing a foreign policy you didn't make. Fuck no. Let's light this bitch up and see if we can stain Trump in the process. The void of US direction/protection was inevitable. If anyone believes for one second that evil would not occupy that void, you're fooling yourself.

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

 

[Wedgy]

I guess that surrender agreement negotiated in Doha didn’t work out so well.

Wee Little Man, a Humpty Dumpty feeble attempt to stand on the shoulders of a great Man..

 

[timstoy]

The greatest military blunder of all time! This is on all on Biden! Own it!

 

[530RL]

Was it the negotiated agreement or execution of said agreement? Big difference. But your obtuse holier than thou ass knows that. Douche

Surrender agreement? It's actually referred to as "Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan".

Over a year and half Trump was in negotiations with the Taliban where he told them to sit on their hands until we were out. During the talks the Tali's decided to kill a US service member and Trump threatened to walk away. Tali's played nice for a while and they finally agreed. The "Surrender" as you like to put it, the US gets the opportunity to get our shit out and tali's won't do a damn thing about it but watch.

Section 1 of part 2 lays this out pretty well. 1. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will not allow any of its members, other individuals or groups, including al-Qa’ida, to use the soil of Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies.

“I really believe the Taliban wants to do something to show that we’re not all wasting time,” Trump said as he announced the agreement. He added as an aside: “If bad things happen, we’ll go back with a force like no one’s ever seen.”

Fast forward, your vote looks at the original agreement completely different than what it actually was, convinces you to go push the same narrative and we're supposed to think you can think for yourself? “The choice I had to make, as your president, was either to follow through on that agreement or be prepared to go back to fighting the Taliban in the middle of the spring fighting season,” Biden said.

Wasn't that hard to just agree with Trump, hold up to the negotiated terms, withdraw and take some of the credit for executing a foreign policy you didn't make. Fuck no. Let's light this bitch up and see if we can stain Trump in the process. The void of US direction/protection was inevitable. If anyone believes for one second that evil would not occupy that void, you're fooling yourself.

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

Although most in the P&G would consider the Hoover Institute a far left institution with the likes of Thomas Sowell and others amongst its ranks, here is another opinion.

How The Doha Agreement Guaranteed US Failure In Afghanistan

This essay examines how the poorly negotiated US-Taliban agreement undermined the Afghan government and institutions and facilitated the Taliban’s rise to power in August 2021. The rush to conclude a deal with the Taliban undermined US counterterrorism interests and emboldened hard-liners within...

www.hoover.org

 

[TeamGreene]

Although most in the P&G would consider the Hoover Institute a far left institution with the likes of Thomas Sowell and others amongst its ranks, here is another opinion.

How The Doha Agreement Guaranteed US Failure In Afghanistan

This essay examines how the poorly negotiated US-Taliban agreement undermined the Afghan government and institutions and facilitated the Taliban’s rise to power in August 2021. The rush to conclude a deal with the Taliban undermined US counterterrorism interests and emboldened hard-liners within...

www.hoover.org

Whether the original agreement was shitty or not Biden had a choice to do it different. When he came into office Biden said that Trump fucked everything up and was in the process of resending his policies by way of EO. But on this one Trump policy he chose not to, why? If what he said was true why stick to the one that has the greatest potential for loss of life?
Also who decided to leave the well defended air base in favor of the airport? Who's idea was it to leave billions of dollars worth of weapons behind for the Taliban to use? Were either of these in the Doha agreement? No.

But this was in the hoover report:

Biden Administration Perpetuated Misguided Afghan Policy
The Biden administration had an opportunity to change course on peace talks with the
Taliban when it assumed power in January 2021. President Biden instead chose to stick
with the poorly negotiated Doha agreement and retain its architect, Ambassador Khalilzad.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s letter to President Ghani in March 2021 implicitly laid
blame on Ghani for the failure of peace talks, even as Taliban violence and assassinations
of Afghan civil society leaders continued apace.12 As former national security advisor
General H. R. McMaster explained in an op-ed in March, “Secretary of State [Antony]
Blinken’s leaked letter to President Ghani made clear the new administration has not
ended the grand self-delusion meant to justify an incompetent and unethical policy:
that the Taliban has become less murderous and is disconnected from other terrorist
organizations.”13
President Biden claims he had only two choices on Afghanistan: either stick with the terms
of the Doha agreement, which included US withdrawal by May 1, 2021, or deploy more
US forces to Afghanistan. This is simply not true. He could have retained the approximately
3,500 US troops, which would have been supplemented by around 7,500 NATO troops,
to maintain support for the Afghan security forces and to protect US counterterrorism
interests. This would have required resources and potential risks to US forces, but full
withdrawal also entails risks and requires continued resources for over-the-horizon
counterterrorism operations. Another option would have been to follow through on
troop withdrawal, not according to the Doha agreement but on Biden’s own terms. Such
a withdrawal could have involved pulling out contractor support at a more gradual pace,
coordinating more closely with NATO allies, and continuing robust air support for the
Afghan security forces over a longer period. This may have prevented Afghan morale from
plummeting so rapidly and allowed the Afghan security forces time to regroup.

 

[530RL]

Whether the original agreement was shitty or not Biden had a choice to do it different. When he came into office Biden said that Trump fucked everything up and was in the process of resending his policies by way of EO. But on this one Trump policy he chose not to, why? If what he said was true why stick to the one that has the greatest potential for loss of life?
Also who decided to leave the well defended air base in favor of the airport? Who's idea was it to leave billions of dollars worth of weapons behind for the Taliban to use? Were either of these in the Doha agreement? No.

But this was in the hoover report:

Biden Administration Perpetuated Misguided Afghan Policy
The Biden administration had an opportunity to change course on peace talks with the
Taliban when it assumed power in January 2021. President Biden instead chose to stick
with the poorly negotiated Doha agreement and retain its architect, Ambassador Khalilzad.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s letter to President Ghani in March 2021 implicitly laid
blame on Ghani for the failure of peace talks, even as Taliban violence and assassinations
of Afghan civil society leaders continued apace.12 As former national security advisor
General H. R. McMaster explained in an op-ed in March, “Secretary of State [Antony]
Blinken’s leaked letter to President Ghani made clear the new administration has not
ended the grand self-delusion meant to justify an incompetent and unethical policy:
that the Taliban has become less murderous and is disconnected from other terrorist
organizations.”13
President Biden claims he had only two choices on Afghanistan: either stick with the terms
of the Doha agreement, which included US withdrawal by May 1, 2021, or deploy more
US forces to Afghanistan. This is simply not true. He could have retained the approximately
3,500 US troops, which would have been supplemented by around 7,500 NATO troops,
to maintain support for the Afghan security forces and to protect US counterterrorism
interests. This would have required resources and potential risks to US forces, but full
withdrawal also entails risks and requires continued resources for over-the-horizon
counterterrorism operations. Another option would have been to follow through on
troop withdrawal, not according to the Doha agreement but on Biden’s own terms. Such
a withdrawal could have involved pulling out contractor support at a more gradual pace,
coordinating more closely with NATO allies, and continuing robust air support for the
Afghan security forces over a longer period. This may have prevented Afghan morale from
plummeting so rapidly and allowed the Afghan security forces time to regroup.

I agree with the conclusions of the Hoover Institute analysis.

It was all handled very poorly by both administrations. Both the agreement, and then the subsequent administrations decision to stand behind the agreement.

Like most things unfortunately.

 

[TeamGreene]

I agree with the conclusions of the Hoover Institute analysis.

It was all handled very poorly by both administrations. Both the agreement, and then the subsequent administrations decision to stand behind the agreement.

Like most things unfortunately.

Ok great. But this is like being hired to take over a construction project that was poorly built by the previous GC. Once you touch it you own all of it.

 

[Wedgy]

If it was a Construction project, no problem! That fat wallet would just be a little thinner after the Inspector leaves.

 

[CigAjerk]

I agree with the conclusions of the Hoover Institute analysis.

It was all handled very poorly by both administrations. Both the agreement, and then the subsequent administrations decision to stand behind the agreement.

Like most things unfortunately.

"JOHN BOLTON, recognized the dangers of signing a bad deal with the Taliban and sought to convince the president to back away from what was shaping up to be less of a “peace” agreement and more of a poorly masked surrender agreement."

I don't really need to summarize this for you, do I?

"By signing a deal with the Taliban that demanded few concessions, the US negotiator signaled to the Afghan authorities that the United States was ready to cut and run from the country and provide international legitimacy to the enemy while doing so."

Exactly what I said above. No way could you do this "DEAL" without someone getting hurt. There was going to be a void left behind and the Tali's were going to fill it NO MATTER WHAT. The Afghan government we implemented was only standing because we were there. ANY surrender/negotiation/agreement/withdraw from Afghanistan left Trump with this conclusion. So he just negotiated with who he really needed to be negotiating with, the Tali's not the afghan fauxvernment.

"Both the Trump and Biden administrations underestimated the degree to which the Doha agreement had weakened the Afghan state and divided the Afghan political elite."

No, Trump did not underestimate, he rubbed their noses in it because it's widely known the new Afghan's don't fight without the US around and many were defecting for years.

Biden DID underestimate trying to save face with the Afghan political elite but it was too late. Trump slammed the door shut with the actual Doha agreement. It's right there, black and white, "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban".

 

[Wedgy]

"JOHN BOLTON, recognized the dangers of signing a bad deal with the Taliban and sought to convince the president to back away from what was shaping up to be less of a “peace” agreement and more of a poorly masked surrender agreement."

I don't really need to summarize this for you, do I?

"By signing a deal with the Taliban that demanded few concessions, the US negotiator signaled to the Afghan authorities that the United States was ready to cut and run from the country and provide international legitimacy to the enemy while doing so."

Exactly what I said above. No way could you do this "DEAL" without someone getting hurt. There was going to be a void left behind and the Tali's were going to fill it NO MATTER WHAT. The Afghan government we implemented was only standing because we were there. ANY surrender/negotiation/agreement/withdraw from Afghanistan left Trump with this conclusion. So he just negotiated with who he really needed to be negotiating with, the Tali's not the afghan fauxvernment.

"Both the Trump and Biden administrations underestimated the degree to which the Doha agreement had weakened the Afghan state and divided the Afghan political elite."

No, Trump did not underestimate, he rubbed their noses in it because it's widely known the new Afghan's don't fight without the US around and many were defecting for years.

Biden DID underestimate trying to save face with the Afghan political elite but it was too late. Trump slammed the door shut with the actual Doha agreement. It's right there, black and white, "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban".

We if it was such a garbage agreement, why didn't Pedo Jao simply tear it up.

Trump’s signature never stopped him before..

Keystone, Opened the border. I could go on with a looong long list,, but "I don't really need to summarize this for you. do I?"

 

[CigAjerk]

We if it was such a garbage agreement, why didn't Pedo Jao simply tear it up.

Trump’s signature never stopped him before..

Keystone, Opened the border. I could go on with a looong long list,, but "I don't really need to summarize this for you. do I?"

Objection! Leading the witness

 

[timstoy]

What ever happened to the Afghanistan president and administration and the boatload of money they took when they escaped Afghanistan?

 

[timstoy]

We if it was such a garbage agreement, why didn't Pedo Jao simply tear it up.

Trump’s signature never stopped him before..

Keystone, Opened the border. I could go on with a looong long list,, but "I don't really need to summarize this for you. do I?"

Biden moved up the date for withdrawal that was not feasible and the hasty withdrawal left Americans and Afghans that helped the US trapped after the withdrawal. We will probably never know how many Afghans and Americans that were killed after the withdrawal. This is all on Biden, he owns this!

 

[530RL]

"JOHN BOLTON, recognized the dangers of signing a bad deal with the Taliban and sought to convince the president to back away from what was shaping up to be less of a “peace” agreement and more of a poorly masked surrender agreement."

I don't really need to summarize this for you, do I?

"By signing a deal with the Taliban that demanded few concessions, the US negotiator signaled to the Afghan authorities that the United States was ready to cut and run from the country and provide international legitimacy to the enemy while doing so."

Exactly what I said above. No way could you do this "DEAL" without someone getting hurt. There was going to be a void left behind and the Tali's were going to fill it NO MATTER WHAT. The Afghan government we implemented was only standing because we were there. ANY surrender/negotiation/agreement/withdraw from Afghanistan left Trump with this conclusion. So he just negotiated with who he really needed to be negotiating with, the Tali's not the afghan fauxvernment.

"Both the Trump and Biden administrations underestimated the degree to which the Doha agreement had weakened the Afghan state and divided the Afghan political elite."

No, Trump did not underestimate, he rubbed their noses in it because it's widely known the new Afghan's don't fight without the US around and many were defecting for years.

Biden DID underestimate trying to save face with the Afghan political elite but it was too late. Trump slammed the door shut with the actual Doha agreement. It's right there, black and white, "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban".

I think we are in complete agreement on the effects of the Doha Agreement.

Your point well made above is that Trump knowingly turned Afghanistan over to the Taliban and rubbed the Afghan noses in it with the negotiations which excluded the government of Afghanistan and then the subsequent Agreement.

I would agree with that assessment.

The Doha agreement didn't work out well for Afghanistan or the Afghani people. As you point out it worked out well for the Taliban, exactly as Trump was willing to accept "NO MATTER WHAT" for as you say, "Trump slammed the door shut with the actual Doha agreement" sealing the fate of Afghanistan and its people.

 

[Racey]

"We need to stay in Afghanistan and spend billions and billions to protect democracy" -530RL

"Trump placing tariffs on china is the biggest tax increase on the middle class EVER" -530RL

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I think we are in complete agreement on the effects of the Doha Agreement.

Your point well made above is that Trump knowingly turned Afghanistan over to the Taliban and rubbed the Afghan noses in it with the negotiations which excluded the government of Afghanistan and then the subsequent Agreement.

I would agree with that assessment.

The Doha agreement didn't work out well for Afghanistan or the Afghani people. As you point out it worked out well for the Taliban, exactly as Trump was willing to accept "NO MATTER WHAT" for as you say, "Trump slammed the door shut with the actual Doha agreement" sealing the fate of Afghanistan and its people.

Thats what happens when the deal made by a powerful government with unknown and absolute military power is enforced by the village people.

Trump would have sent a sidewinder right into the hovel of the Taliban leader....AND YOU KNOW THAT IS A FACT.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

To add; Trump also stated and I believe him, he would have not left one weapon, tent, tarp behind. He would have accounted for every screw.

And th military would have been the very last to leave, instead of the first.

 

[530RL]

Thats what happens when the deal made by a powerful government with unknown and absolute military power is enforced by the village people.

Trump would have sent a sidewinder right into the hovel of the Taliban leader....AND YOU KNOW THAT IS A FACT.

He would have suggested a business partnership for a hotel or brothel.......

We should have left Afghanistan in 2002. No reason to be there after that.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

He would have suggested a business partnership for a hotel or brothel.......

We should have left Afghanistan in 2002. No reason to be there after that.

I don't remember Trump being President in 2002?

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

He would have suggested a business partnership for a hotel or brothel.......

We should have left Afghanistan in 2002. No reason to be there after that.

A hotel specializing in those Golden Showers we all know Trump likes.

 

[530RL]

I don't remember Trump being President in 2002?

He wasn't. He was a registered Democrat at that time.....

 

[timstoy]

I don't remember Trump being President in 2002?

I wonder if Biden got his ten percent from the Afghan president!

 

[hallett21]

I just heard that we spent roughly 80 billion in Afghanistan over 20 years. And that we’ve spent 80 billion in 1 year in Ukraine. That’s insane.

 

[530RL]

I just heard that we spent roughly 80 billion in Afghanistan over 20 years. And that we’ve spent 80 billion in 1 year in Ukraine. That’s insane.

We've spent over 2.4 trillion in Afghanistan and Pakistan in operations over 20 years. That doesn't include capital costs, that is M&O.

 

[CigAjerk]

He wasn't. He was a registered Democrat at that time.....

See, it's never too late.

 

[Wedgy]

I think we are in complete agreement on the effects of the Doha Agreement.

Your point well made above is that Trump knowingly turned Afghanistan over to the Taliban and rubbed the Afghan noses in it with the negotiations which excluded the government of Afghanistan and then the subsequent Agreement.

I would agree with that assessment.

The Doha agreement didn't work out well for Afghanistan or the Afghani people. As you point out it worked out well for the Taliban, exactly as Trump was willing to accept "NO MATTER WHAT" for as you say, "Trump slammed the door shut with the actual Doha agreement" sealing the fate of Afghanistan and its people.

Hollow argument. Pedo Jao undid everything he could to erase anything and everything Trump did as President.
Keystone, on day 1. US Southern border, etc, ad nauseum. Never stopped him before, But noooo, Afghanistan botched pullout, all Trumps fault. Riight. "Trump knowingly turned Afghanistan over to the Taliban." Who was in the Oval office?
On Truman's desk, "The Buck stops here." Biden, accepts responsibility for nothing.
Who was president when the 13 US soldiers died, and Americans and their Afghan allies were left behind?
Typical twisted Woman's logic. Damn. Your estrogen is showing, probably should have those hormone levels checked...

 

[sprintcvx]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696606409478070540

 

[spectras only]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696606409478070540

View attachment 1271645

The pull out would of been a total success if Joe's father would of timed it better. And we wouldn't have to listen about Hunter's problems either.

 

[spectra3279]

Trump would have controlled them with moabs. They would have been put into Mass production. The raliban would have followed the agreement. But they knew bidden was/is a gutless turd whos only reason for being president is to further corruption and undo all the good of trump

 

[Luvnlife]

I wonder if Biden got his ten percent from the Afghan president!

Hell he’s probably getting it from the Taliban, a lot of the shit we left behind is finding its way to the black market. There’s money to be made.

 

[Luvnlife]

What ever happened to the Afghanistan president and administration and the boatload of money they took when they escaped Afghanistan?

Living large and prob still getting my money.

 

[Wedgy]

Living large and prob still getting my money.

Nice. Gas here was $1.17 before Biden came along. It's all about they money.

 

[Luvnlife]

Nice. Gas here was $1.17 before Biden came along. It's all about they money.

Always follow the money, it shows what’s really happening.

 

[monkeyswrench]

It was mentioned about the dollars spent in Afghanistan over the last 20 years. I really wonder what the total was from the 70's, until now. Was there CIA money switched there from Vietnam before Russia went in? What about the in-between times, when BinLaden was plotting? How much US cash was spent there, and funneled out to other places? Was Afghanistan the laundromat before Ukraine? Were other administrations doing the same thing?

 

[regor]

It was mentioned about the dollars spent in Afghanistan over the last 20 years. I really wonder what the total was from the 70's, until now. Was there CIA money switched there from Vietnam before Russia went in? What about the in-between times, when BinLaden was plotting? How much US cash was spent there, and funneled out to other places? Was Afghanistan the laundromat before Ukraine? Were other administrations doing the same thing?

Yes

 

[Sleek-Jet]

It was mentioned about the dollars spent in Afghanistan over the last 20 years. I really wonder what the total was from the 70's, until now. Was there CIA money switched there from Vietnam before Russia went in? What about the in-between times, when BinLaden was plotting? How much US cash was spent there, and funneled out to other places? Was Afghanistan the laundromat before Ukraine? Were other administrations doing the same thing?

We spent Billions every year on the Mujahideen fighting the Russians in the 1980's.

I don't care who was sitting in the oval office, Afghanistan was going to end this way. The culture doesn't embrace our western ideas of governing, so every attempt is destined to fail.

Best practice would be to not get involved in the first place. Beyond that we should have just broken the country up into tribal lands and let them go back the 17th century, since that is how most want to live.

 

[sprintcvx]

How the govt. is going recover some of their losses.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1726732779738865730