Alpha drive question

[pwerwagn]

My buddy has a 32’ sea ray pachanga. Twin 454/alpha boat, original owner. I would venture to say the cleanest 32’ original pachanga anywhere.

3 summers ago, he lost a port drive. Took it to a service place here at the butte, they replaced the drive. Later we were told it was a “knock off” Taiwan drive. Last summer at LOTO, the boat lost the same drive with only about 4 hours on it. We replaced the drive with what was supposed to be a genuine mercruiser drive. We ran it about an hour last season, then today at about hour 2, same drive took a dump.

Like I mentioned this boat is original owner, 300 total hours and the original drives lasted 294 hours, and now the port drive has been replaced twice in 6 hours. We noticed loading it today the drain plug is on the opposite side of the still working original starboard drive.

Did we get a second “knock off” drive? Is there such a thing? Any ideas why one drive would keep failing and the other not? He’s SUPER easy on the boat. All 3 failures have been at like 4k rpm or less.

Any thoughts?

 

[HBCraig]

My buddy has a 32’ sea ray pachanga. Twin 454/alpha boat, original owner. I would venture to say the cleanest 32’ original pachanga anywhere.

3 summers ago, he lost a port drive. Took it to a service place here at the butte, they replaced the drive. Later we were told it was a “knock off” Taiwan drive. Last summer at LOTO, the boat lost the same drive with only about 4 hours on it. We replaced the drive with what was supposed to be a genuine mercruiser drive. We ran it about an hour last season, then today at about hour 2, same drive took a dump.

Like I mentioned this boat is original owner, 300 total hours and the original drives lasted 294 hours, and now the port drive has been replaced twice in 6 hours. We noticed loading it today the drain plug is on the opposite side of the still working original starboard drive.

Did we get a second “knock off” drive? Is there such a thing? Any ideas why one drive would keep failing and the other not? He’s SUPER easy on the boat. All 3 failures have been at like 4k rpm or less.

Any thoughts?
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First thing I would do is have the outdrives pulled and "aligned" with the merc aligning tool. That might be a place to start. There's a lot of geometry going on there. Look at the gimble as well
When you say they failed, do you know exactly what happened?
You could very well have gotten another knock off

 

[Baja 252]

Is the boat a 1987? We bought a new 87 Baja with the 454 and Alpha One drive, It was the first year for the 454 package without a TRS drive. To make the Alpha drive live with the torque of the big block they changed the gear ratio and a few other things. This was a one year only package because the stronger Bravo drive came out in 1988. If he replaced the drive with a regular small block Alpha drive that may be why he is having issues with it holding up.

 

[azsunfun]

The boats are simple setups,agree with @HBCraig

 

[twocents]

As I recall, MerCruiser did a very limited availability of 454 engines mated to Alpha drives. The torque of the BBC engines were simply not compatible with the Alphas -- too many warranty issues so MerCruiser quickly came out with the much stronger Bravo series. Not sure there's a really good fix (without spending a small ton of money) for a boat with this set-up. Wish I had a more helpful better solution except drive it gently in the future.

 

[Dalton]

These are the knockoff ones- https://www.sterndrive.cc/


I believe if you want a alpha you have to tell them it’s for a small block or they won’t sell it

 

[pwerwagn]

First thing I would do is have the outdrives pulled and "aligned" with the merc aligning tool. That might be a place to start. There's a lot of geometry going on there. Look at the gimble as well
When you say they failed, do you know exactly what happened?
You could very well have gotten another knock off

The last drive we put on we did ourself, without an alignment tool. We assumed because a reputable shop did the one before, they had aligned it and should be ok. Maybe it was a poor assumption, since we later found out that same shop used the cheap drive.

Would that alignment issue cause problems in the actual lower? We haven’t pulled this one apart but both previous the uppers looked ok.

 

[pwerwagn]

Is the boat a 1987? We bought a new 87 Baja with the 454 and Alpha One drive, It was the first year for the 454 package without a TRS drive. To make the Alpha drive live with the torque of the big block they changed the gear ratio and a few other things. This was a one year only package because the stronger Bravo drive came out in 1988. If he replaced the drive with a regular small block Alpha drive that may be why he is having issues with it holding up.

It is an 87. When he got the boat it was setup for sea level. He brought it here to the butte (4400’), and it was obviously propped wrong. The dealer that sold it (I believe out of LOTO) sent him new lowers with high altitude gearsets. He tried to get the TRS drives but since they were new he couldn’t get it separate. The alphas have held up surprisingly well for 35 years though!

 

[pwerwagn]

Wish I had a more helpful better solution except drive it gently in the future.

The crazy part is we’ve been using it for 35 years without an issue! We’ve ski’d behind it, pulled tubes, etc and never had an issue. I have to imagine something else is wrong…or Merc isn’t making the drives the same way they used to? Or we somehow got 2 of the drives @Dalton linked and they just aren’t holding up! This last drive was babied for 2 hours and broke.

 

[Buddy]

What specifically failed?
If the drive shaft goes in and out easily it’s aligned perfectly.
I owned a 27 formula with alphas and 400hp small blocks, ran it kinda hard ( no offshore jumps) . The alphas held up well

 

[Buddy]

I just re read , sounds like you lower failed? What failed, gears or shaft?
The old cleavers he is running are garbage.
Mercury and Hill make some amazing modern props .

 

[pwerwagn]

I just re read , sounds like you lower failed? What failed, gears or shaft?
The old cleavers he is running are garbage.
Mercury and Hill make some amazing modern props .

I’m gonna verify this drive failed the same way. I’m making the assumption it did like the last 2, but perhaps it didn’t.

Ya, those are the original, never been worked on props. He’s very much a “leave it alone if it works” kinda guy. At one time it would run right at 60 with them here at 4400’.

 

[Andy B.]

I wish I could help but those Pachanga's are great looking boats hope you get it sorted.

 

[Lumpy]

Very curious what is found on this. The shift cables gotta be perfect on those alpha’s or that dog clutch can just eat itself.

 

[Dalton]

I just re read , sounds like you lower failed? What failed, gears or shaft?
The old cleavers he is running are garbage.
Mercury and Hill make some amazing modern props .

Looking at the props…..both look identical? Isn’t one side supposed to be counter rotating?

 

[Nordie]

I have the bastard setup in my 87 as well (not a sea ray). I plan on taking it easy, if and when the inevitable happens I'll start looking for a bravo. Seems like it's a pretty easy swap.

I think the 87 alphas/454 package have a stronger gear set in them that helped them live longer behind the big blocks.

Seems like once you swapped you are seeing that situation now.

I really need to get a drive shower installed, should help a little for as little as they cost.

 

[port austin pirate]

Tons of Chinese knockoffs everywhere, I try and buy parts with old line quality suppliers, get the box right name, but made in China on the parts WTF.

 

[pwerwagn]

Very curious what is found on this. The shift cables gotta be perfect on those alpha’s or that dog clutch can just eat itself.

I’ll update the thread when we tear it apart. Didn’t feel like taking it apart on the beach.

 

[pwerwagn]

Looking at the props…..both look identical? Isn’t one side supposed to be counter rotating?

They are not counter rotating drives on this boat. Not sure why, but they never were.

I did check and they are 1.62 drives.

After looking closer there are quite a few differences in the lower between the original alpha and this new one. Casting differences, etc.

 

[pwerwagn]

I wish I could help but those Pachanga's are great looking boats hope you get it sorted.

It is a beautiful boat. I’ve been around it since new, pretty much grew up in it. He has had tons of cool toys that have came and gone, and this boat is the only thing he has never let go of.

 

[Runs2rch]

I have the bastard setup in my 87 as well (not a sea ray). I plan on taking it easy, if and when the inevitable happens I'll start looking for a bravo. Seems like it's a pretty easy swap.

I think the 87 alphas/454 package have a stronger gear set in them that helped them live longer behind the big blocks.

Seems like once you swapped you are seeing that situation now.

I really need to get a drive shower installed, should help a little for as little as they cost.

Alpha SS if I remember right. Also used on the 320 efi.

 

[rivrrts429]

I’ll update the thread when we tear it apart. Didn’t feel like taking it apart on the beach.

What about the previous failure(s)? Did you not learn what failed in those either?

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

I would look for an actual counter rotating Mercruiser Alpha and have it rebuilt by a reputable shop and replace that Chinese garbage. Those need to be installed just right so they will last, but if done right you should be good for hundreds of hours. Buy once, cry once!

 

[Rajobigguy]

Alphas are only rated for about 300 hp and mounted behind a big block they are right on the edge of that limit. The two weak spots are the lower out put shaft and the upper gear set. The lower unit can’t take a shock load and the upper gear set runs to hot at higher RPMs. Adding a drive shower helps immensely for the upper but not much can be done to fix the lower unit (anymore). I say anymore because there used to be a couple of outfits that made a “fat shaft” conversion for the lower unit that made the Alpha a pretty robust unit, unfortunately those shops have been gone for quite a few years now.

 

[Jay Dub]

Back in the day, my family had a similar boat with big-blocks and alpha drives. drove it medium hard for 250-300 hours, no issues. Maybe they made the internals different for the BB's?

 

[pwerwagn]

What about the previous failure(s)? Did you not learn what failed in those either?

Previous 2 were lowers.

 

[pwerwagn]

I would look for an actual counter rotating Mercruiser Alpha and have it rebuilt by a reputable shop and replace that Chinese garbage. Those need to be installed just right so they will last, but if done right you should be good for hundreds of hours. Buy once, cry once!

This one is supposedly not a chinese garbage lower, it was purchased thru a mercruiser dealer and supposed to be an actual mercruiser unit. Its just strange that there are differences in the drain plug location, etc vs the 35yr old original unit next to it.

I tried to convince him to do a counter rotating unit at first, the first time it happened he had a dealer do the work since he was under a time constraint and need it done asap. That dealer had a unit in stock locally...but it was the knockoff. Ideally that would be the way to go, and might be what we do this time.

 

[Rajobigguy]

Previous 2 were lowers.

Yes but what specifically failed ? Broken shaft, chipped gears, bad bearings, lots of possibilities?

 

[rivrrts429]

Previous 2 were lowers.

Yes but what specifically failed ? Broken shaft, chipped gears, bad bearings, lots of possibilities?

Sorry if I was vague but this is what I was curious about. What specifically failed in these lowers? It’ll likely be insight into what the actual issue is.

 

[mesquito_creek]

If you run twins without counter rotation you just have to add a little more right rudder to counter act the P-factor…

The SEI replacements seem to be well received by a lot of respected mechanics, several who are on here…

 

[Rajobigguy]

If you run twins without counter rotation you just have to add a little more right rudder to counter act the P-factor…

The SEI replacements seem to be well received by a lot of respected mechanics, several who are on here…

The SEI units are probably not quite as Asian as some seem to think. The casting is an import but my understanding is that the finish machining is done here and that the internals are US sourced so unless the housing falls apart it’s hard to blame a failure on cheap import junk.

 

[Rajobigguy]

Without knowing what exactly the failure is it’s hard to judge what might have caused it but I will say this. Shift cable and ignition interruptor adjustment are pretty important on Alphas.

 

[pwerwagn]

Sorry if I was vague but this is what I was curious about. What specifically failed in these lowers? It’ll likely be insight into what the actual issue is.

The first replacement was done by a dealer, and all they said was the lower was no good but the upper was ok but they replaced both with the SEI setup. We still have the SEI that we took off, I can take it apart and see what specifically failed in the lower.

We will probably pull the mercruiser drive off of it in the next few weeks (were at the lake thru the middle of July), and see what happened. I did notice on this one, if you put it in neutral and spin the prop it makes a very noisy gear sound, almost like one tooth has an issue.

This time around we will be sure to check alignment, etc. I had assumed that because a reputable shop did the SEI drive, they had checked alignment then (which was only a few hours of run time ago).

 

[pwerwagn]

I appreciate all the responses, at least I have a path forward!

 

[Baja 252]

The Alpha 1’s in 1987 that were behind the 454 / 330hp Magnum package had a 1:32 gear ratio.

 

[azsunfun]

I didn't catch it was the lowers, does it go in reverse? And jump out of forward?

 

[Nordie]

The Alpha 1’s in 1987 that were behind the 454 / 330hp Magnum package had a 1:32 gear ratio.

Thanks for that, saving it for future reference.

 

[chadzilla]

Mercury produced the 454 mag alpha package in '87 and '88. The engine was rated at 330hp. Like many stated previously, the 454 had too much torque for the poor little alpha. There are two aftermarket companies who produce generic alpha drives. SEI and GLM. I have tried both companies and have absolutely nothing good to say about either. I have tried just parts and complete drives. Every time, i had problems and ended up replacing either the parts or the complete drive with a genuine mercury part. The individual parts suck, the drives suck, the customer service sucks... There's a reason Mercury parts are more expensive. Back to the drive. Alignment will have nothing to do with a drive failure. Shift cable adjustment will absolutely cause early demise. There is the proper way to adjust the shift cable and then there's every other way to do it which is wrong. The first drive failure was likely due to age. However, the shift cable should have been inspected at the time of replacement. The second drive failure is due to being a piece of shit. Not any fault of the owner as he took the repair facility's recommendation. There was mention of a bad noise when rotating the prop. This is a dead indicator of the shift cable being out of adjustment. There should be no noise associated with spinning the prop at all. There are a few things that can go wrong when installing or removing an alpha drive. Standard rotation drives absolutely must be placed into fwd gear before pulling off or installing. If this isn't done, the intermediate shift shaft will jam up on the lower shaft. When this happens the lower shaft is thrust down and usually ends up bending the bell crank in the lower. It only takes one time doing this to cause damage. The bent bell crank will not allow the clutch to fully engage the gear which causes failure. Alpha drives are pretty stout for what they are if serviced properly. The third is a mystery. If it is in fact a genuine mercury product then there will be an automatic 1 year warranty with it that any authorized mercury dealership can use for replacement. The product, if it is a genuine mercury product, will have a serial number with it. Period. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. If the repair facility did their job, the product serial number will be on the drive and they should have record of it on their invoice. Moving forward, they should have the shift cable and intermediate or bell housing shift shaft inspected before another drive is installed. Probably a good time to replace all bellows and the water hose if it hasn't been done recently. Hope this helps

 

[Lumpy]

Mercury produced the 454 mag alpha package in '87 and '88. The engine was rated at 330hp. Like many stated previously, the 454 had too much torque for the poor little alpha. There are two aftermarket companies who produce generic alpha drives. SEI and GLM. I have tried both companies and have absolutely nothing good to say about either. I have tried just parts and complete drives. Every time, i had problems and ended up replacing either the parts or the complete drive with a genuine mercury part. The individual parts suck, the drives suck, the customer service sucks... There's a reason Mercury parts are more expensive. Back to the drive. Alignment will have nothing to do with a drive failure. Shift cable adjustment will absolutely cause early demise. There is the proper way to adjust the shift cable and then there's every other way to do it which is wrong. The first drive failure was likely due to age. However, the shift cable should have been inspected at the time of replacement. The second drive failure is due to being a piece of shit. Not any fault of the owner as he took the repair facility's recommendation. There was mention of a bad noise when rotating the prop. This is a dead indicator of the shift cable being out of adjustment. There should be no noise associated with spinning the prop at all. There are a few things that can go wrong when installing or removing an alpha drive. Standard rotation drives absolutely must be placed into fwd gear before pulling off or installing. If this isn't done, the intermediate shift shaft will jam up on the lower shaft. When this happens the lower shaft is thrust down and usually ends up bending the bell crank in the lower. It only takes one time doing this to cause damage. The bent bell crank will not allow the clutch to fully engage the gear which causes failure. Alpha drives are pretty stout for what they are if serviced properly. The third is a mystery. If it is in fact a genuine mercury product then there will be an automatic 1 year warranty with it that any authorized mercury dealership can use for replacement. The product, if it is a genuine mercury product, will have a serial number with it. Period. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. If the repair facility did their job, the product serial number will be on the drive and they should have record of it on their invoice. Moving forward, they should have the shift cable and intermediate or bell housing shift shaft inspected before another drive is installed. Probably a good time to replace all bellows and the water hose if it hasn't been done recently. Hope this helps

What he said…just went through almost exactly this scenario on my friends alpha. Had the 1987 454/alpha on a SleekCraft 26 Enforcer about 12 years ago…it ran perfectly without issues. As long as you don’t hammer it out of the hole or air it out it should be fine. Remember…those 454’s were only 330HP!

 

[pwerwagn]

The Alpha 1’s in 1987 that were behind the 454 / 330hp Magnum package had a 1:32 gear ratio.

This one had 1.32's originally, which were swapped by the selling dealer in ~88 with "high altitude gearsets", and they have 1.62's in them now.

 

[pwerwagn]

I didn't catch it was the lowers, does it go in reverse? And jump out of forward?

No fwd or reverse...

 

[pwerwagn]

Mercury produced the 454 mag alpha package in '87 and '88. The engine was rated at 330hp. Like many stated previously, the 454 had too much torque for the poor little alpha. There are two aftermarket companies who produce generic alpha drives. SEI and GLM. I have tried both companies and have absolutely nothing good to say about either. I have tried just parts and complete drives. Every time, i had problems and ended up replacing either the parts or the complete drive with a genuine mercury part. The individual parts suck, the drives suck, the customer service sucks... There's a reason Mercury parts are more expensive. Back to the drive. Alignment will have nothing to do with a drive failure. Shift cable adjustment will absolutely cause early demise. There is the proper way to adjust the shift cable and then there's every other way to do it which is wrong. The first drive failure was likely due to age. However, the shift cable should have been inspected at the time of replacement. The second drive failure is due to being a piece of shit. Not any fault of the owner as he took the repair facility's recommendation. There was mention of a bad noise when rotating the prop. This is a dead indicator of the shift cable being out of adjustment. There should be no noise associated with spinning the prop at all. There are a few things that can go wrong when installing or removing an alpha drive. Standard rotation drives absolutely must be placed into fwd gear before pulling off or installing. If this isn't done, the intermediate shift shaft will jam up on the lower shaft. When this happens the lower shaft is thrust down and usually ends up bending the bell crank in the lower. It only takes one time doing this to cause damage. The bent bell crank will not allow the clutch to fully engage the gear which causes failure. Alpha drives are pretty stout for what they are if serviced properly. The third is a mystery. If it is in fact a genuine mercury product then there will be an automatic 1 year warranty with it that any authorized mercury dealership can use for replacement. The product, if it is a genuine mercury product, will have a serial number with it. Period. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. If the repair facility did their job, the product serial number will be on the drive and they should have record of it on their invoice. Moving forward, they should have the shift cable and intermediate or bell housing shift shaft inspected before another drive is installed. Probably a good time to replace all bellows and the water hose if it hasn't been done recently. Hope this helps

This is great info, and sort of what I suspected. So...the owner of the boat got it home and quickly looked at it. He drained the rest of the oil, and definitely full of metal shavings.

He called Mercury, and there still is a warranty, that expires tomorrow. He had a local shop file a claim so hopefully that gets it in under the window.

He pulled the cover off the upper and said the gears there look fine, so I suspect it is in the lower again? I would venture to guess that your comment on the shift cables being out of adjustment is exactly what happened. When the SEI drive took a crap, the owners son had taken it to Iowa to use on the mississipi river. I remember his son mentioning that he had to take it to a shop because it wasnt shifting right, but the shop couldnt get the right cable in time so they just adjusted it. I would be the shift cables need replacing. I didnt even remember this until you mentioned it.

I read a bunch on alignment last night, and from what I read alignment will affect the coupler life, but shouldn't affect the drive life?

I am betting the culprit here is shift adjustment being incorrect. I am honestly not positive if the drives were removed/reinstalled shifted into FWD, that could be the answer to why this new merc alpha only lasted 2 hours!

Thank you for the information, it definitely helps!!!

Edit: how much metal is to be expected in a new drive after 2 hours? I have had new outboard lowers (fishin lowers, cle's, sportys, etc) and they might have some faint glitter in the oil after break in, but never bits and pieces. The shop he called said it is absolutely normal for an alpha to have pieces of metal in the oil the size of the tip of a ball point pen?

 

[chadzilla]

No fwd or reverse...

It is likely that the vertical shaft sheared. It is a very weak link in the Chinese alphas.

 

[Outdrive1]

There was a Silverwing 270 that I sold a couple times over the years. It had 454’s and Alphas that were not counter rotating as well. I think that’s pretty standard from that era.


The drive that broke in two hours, it’s not under warranty? Even SEI drives have a year warranty I believe.

 

[pwerwagn]

There was a Silverwing 270 that I sold a couple times over the years. It had 454’s and Alphas that were not counter rotating as well. I think that’s pretty standard from that era.


The drive that broke in two hours, it’s not under warranty? Even SEI drives have a year warranty I believe.

It is under warranty, by 2 days. Trying to get the claim in under the deadline...

The SEI was installed and only used once, then the boat went to IOWA for a few weeks and didnt move for about a year, then broke when we were at LOTO last summer. This replacement merc drive was bought after the LOTO trip.

 

[chadzilla]

This is great info, and sort of what I suspected. So...the owner of the boat got it home and quickly looked at it. He drained the rest of the oil, and definitely full of metal shavings.

He called Mercury, and there still is a warranty, that expires tomorrow. He had a local shop file a claim so hopefully that gets it in under the window.

He pulled the cover off the upper and said the gears there look fine, so I suspect it is in the lower again? I would venture to guess that your comment on the shift cables being out of adjustment is exactly what happened. When the SEI drive took a crap, the owners son had taken it to Iowa to use on the mississipi river. I remember his son mentioning that he had to take it to a shop because it wasnt shifting right, but the shop couldnt get the right cable in time so they just adjusted it. I would be the shift cables need replacing. I didnt even remember this until you mentioned it.

I read a bunch on alignment last night, and from what I read alignment will affect the coupler life, but shouldn't affect the drive life?

I am betting the culprit here is shift adjustment being incorrect. I am honestly not positive if the drives were removed/reinstalled shifted into FWD, that could be the answer to why this new merc alpha only lasted 2 hours!

Thank you for the information, it definitely helps!!!

Edit: how much metal is to be expected in a new drive after 2 hours? I have had new outboard lowers (fishin lowers, cle's, sportys, etc) and they might have some faint glitter in the oil after break in, but never bits and pieces. The shop he called said it is absolutely normal for an alpha to have pieces of metal in the oil the size of the tip of a ball point pen?

There will always be some fine metal in the gear oil from an alpha. Not chunks just fine shavings. It is from the clutch dog engaging into the gear. The clunking you hear when shifting into gear. The alignment will definitely damage the coupler if it is off but has no effect on drive life.

 

[Rajobigguy]

It’s not just the shift cable that needs too be adjusted properly, the ignition interrupter also needs to work and be adjusted correctly. Alphas don’t have anything to help sync the drive to the selected gear.