Alaska Airlines window malfunction

[spectras only]

What are the chances that all four bolts gone to let the door go up and out? Doesn't sound like a redundant system to me.
NTSB should have had a video showing the press to understand how the locking system works.
Using castellation nuts on the bolts could sheer the cotter pins , letting the nuts walk off the bolts if the bollts weren't torqued properly. In my opinion, someone screwed up, forgetting to put cotter pins in or even torquing the nuts.

 

[rrrr]

What are the chances that all four bolts gone to let the door go up and out? Doesn't sound like a redundant system to me.
NTSB should have had a video showing the press to understand how the locking system works.
Using castellation nuts on the bolts could sheer the cotter pins , letting the nuts walk off the bolts if the bollts weren't torqued properly. In my opinion, someone screwed up, forgetting to put cotter pins in or even torquing the nuts.

FAA regulations say if after the nut is properly torqued, if less than 50% of the cotter pin is below the top of the castellation, a washer must be added under the nut to correct the deficiency. Castellated nuts are approved as fasteners in aerospace applications, so the shear strength of the cotter pin must be sufficient.

But the improperly tightened bolt I've seen in photos doesn't have a castellated nut on it. It has a lock washer, however, it's under the bolt head. I can't see the other side of the bolt, but if it has nut on it, my understanding is it has to be nylock, distorted diameter, or castellated. Lock washers are not proper locking devices for NAS bolts in aerospace applications AFAIK. But the bolt could be in tapped threads of the structure. I just don't know for sure.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Issue is with those 9’s where the emergency exit is plugged and not an emergency exit door.
Too many folks touch that plug after assembly. Door is used to load interior at each customers finish shop as an example. Gut says the plugs are going bye bye and it’s becomes a full emergency exit on all.

My feeling also. I'm guessing the reason the plug is available is two fold; the plug is cheaper and doesn't require regular maintenance and weight.

 

[Sharky]

Probably helps if you actually tighten the bolts-

 

[JDKRXW]

Probably helps if you actually tighten the bolts-

Wow !!

 

[HB2Havasu]

Probably helps if you actually tighten the bolts-

Pretty obvious those Fitting Bolts were likely never torqued to specification requirements. When I worked on the 747 Flight Line 20+ years ago we had a protocol that the Mechanic Torqued the Bolts, then preformed a Secondary Torque of all the same bolts. Then as redundancy the Inspector would also Torque Check each bolt, and then Torque Stripe every bolt he checked. Then on shakedown inspection right before next station delivery another inspector would verify all bolts were torque striped. You never hear of these incidents happening on 747 aircraft for a reason! Looks like Boeing went away from this process to save a few bucks?

 

[stephenkatsea]

Years ago there was a flight which had a large section (cargo door?) rip off the aircraft somewhere over the mid Pacific. Some passengers were actually sucked out of that aircraft. I knew 2 of them. We had dinner together a few months prior to the incident at the LBYC.

 

[Sharky]

Looks like Boeing went away from this process to save a few bucks?

Cough, cough. . . . McDonnel Douglas. . . . cough, cough, wink

 

[Badchoices03]

Someone Found An iPhone That Fell 16,000 Feet From That Alaska Airlines Flight, And The Creepiest Part Is The Ripped Off Charging Cable

This is like a Steve Jobs miracle.

www.yahoo.com

My Iphone 15 fell from the seat of my truck to the ground and cracked the screen...this phone fell 16k feet and everything is fine...LOL

 

[DaveH]

what i dont understand in all this is how the door actually blew out.

aircraft doors open inward for a reason. cabin pressure would make it impossible to open a door in flight, even if it was done with intention at altitude.

are the emergency exits (and in this case a plugged emergency exit) manufactured in such a way that they open outwards? if this was the case then it would be possible to open an exit....it would pop like a cork on a champaign bottle. i cant believe these openings would be manufactured in such a way.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Flew Alaska this morning. No unwanted sky diving lesson, so that was a positive.

 

[Desert Whaler]

Years ago there was a flight which had a large section (cargo door?) rip off the aircraft somewhere over the mid Pacific. Some passengers were actually sucked out of that aircraft. I knew 2 of them. We had dinner together a few months prior to the incident at the LBYC.

I was just on the phone with my buddy who is a flight mechanic for Fed Ex at LAX . . . he was talking about that same very story. Super Sad.

He also said that it sounded like a prefect storm for that door to pop out like that, since it's more of a 'plug' than an actual door. He 'thought' that it should be sort of 'keyed' in their and things must've loosened / moved in just the right sequence for it to happen. He also said that he's never worked on that particular plane, as Fed Ex doesn't have any in their fleet.

 

[86403]

what i dont understand in all this is how the door actually blew out.

aircraft doors open inward for a reason. cabin pressure would make it impossible to open a door in flight, even if it was done with intention at altitude.

are the emergency exits (and in this case a plugged emergency exit) manufactured in such a way that they open outwards? if this was the case then it would be possible to open an exit....it would pop like a cork on a champaign bottle. i cant believe these openings would be manufactured in such a way.

Good explanation:

 

[spectras only]

what i dont understand in all this is how the door actually blew out.

aircraft doors open inward for a reason. cabin pressure would make it impossible to open a door in flight, even if it was done with intention at altitude.

are the emergency exits (and in this case a plugged emergency exit) manufactured in such a way that they open outwards? if this was the case then it would be possible to open an exit....it would pop like a cork on a champaign bottle. i cant believe these openings would be manufactured in such a way.

Obviously the bolts disappeared after the castellation nuts unwound and the helper springs on the bottom helped the plug to move upwards and out,lol
Still can't grasp the fact that all four bolts in question gave out. The pressurization could have kept the plug stay put if just one bolt remained with the castellation nut and cotter pin stll inplace. Someone fubard that installation.
It is a emergency door system where the door supposed to pop outwards not inwards. Those plugs are going to go away on the Max9 I'd think.

 

[DaveH]

Obviously the bolts disappeared after the castellation nuts unwound and the helper springs on the bottom helped the plug to move upwards and out,lol
Still can't grasp the fact that all four bolts in question gave out. The pressurization could have kept the plug stay put if just one bolt remained with the castellation nut and cotter pin stll inplace. Someone fubard that installation.
It is a emergency door system where the door supposed to pop outwards not inwards. Those plugs are going to go away on the Max9 I'd think.

so i watched that video and the door has to be moved up and IN to be "unsealed". at that point it could be tossed out.

the video goes into how pressurization should have held it in place. it talks about how it would have to be jarred around to unseal, and if this was the case on prior landing or taxi, then the plane would never have been able to pressurize on the following flight. this condition would have been caught almost immediately on take off as soon as the plane gained any altitude, yet went to 16,000ft before the door came off. i dont get it.

 

[napanutt]

 

[Big B Hova]

 

[TPC]

The cellphones survived.
Boeing today admits they fucked up.

 

[wallnutz]

So what kind of phone cases were they? My phone breaks falling onto the carpet, let alone 12,000 ft.

 

[napanutt]

 

[Singleton]

The cellphones survived.
Boeing today admits they fucked up.

I don’t see the Boeing BoD allowing the CEO to continue once this is over.
Admitting fault prior to the investigation being over is not good business.

 

[hallett21]

I don’t see the Boeing BoD allowing the CEO to continue once this is over.
Admitting fault prior to the investigation being over is not good business.

I was gonna say are they headed for another -10% day tomorrow?

 

[Singleton]

I was gonna say are they headed for another -10% day tomorrow?

Huge problem. No good option for a replacement. They had issues finding one and the Chairman of the board took the CEO position.

 

[spectras only]

so i watched that video and the door has to be moved up and IN to be "unsealed". at that point it could be tossed out.

the video goes into how pressurization should have held it in place. it talks about how it would have to be jarred around to unseal, and if this was the case on prior landing or taxi, then the plane would never have been able to pressurize on the following flight. this condition would have been caught almost immediately on take off as soon as the plane gained any altitude, yet went to 16,000ft before the door came off. i dont get it.

The plug moves up 2 inches by spring pressure on the bottom after the two bottom bolts released then the top of the plug [ or emergency door if used on the plane ] pop outwards not inwards. When there's an emergency landing happeneing, you want the emergency door pop out to allow quick exit is my understanding. The plug doesn't have outside release and should be permanently secured by the bolts at all time. It would require interior panel be removed before the bolts could be removed to service the plug for seals. Emergency door would have release handle inside to be accessible tp open the door in case of fire in emergency landings.. As I said, something been screwed up by maintenance. It's going to be difficult for Boeing or the airline to explain who screwed up.
If you look at the door/plug, the 12 pins are on the door and the holes the pins go in are on the frame ln the fuselage. Pictures show the plug is outwards 15 degree on top not inwards. The roll pin in the guides on the plug that holds the plug from being blown out by pressurization. Once the securing bolts aren;t on the plug, rattled or moved by vibration, the roll pins are not in the guides, hence the plug blown out. Doors on modern new airliners, desingning them cost upwards of 10 million bucks.

 

[Deckin Around]

Someone Found An iPhone That Fell 16,000 Feet From That Alaska Airlines Flight, And The Creepiest Part Is The Ripped Off Charging Cable

This is like a Steve Jobs miracle.

www.yahoo.com

My Iphone 15 fell from the seat of my truck to the ground and cracked the screen...this phone fell 16k feet and everything is fine...LOL

How the fuck does a phone fall from 16k ft and survive?!?
According to a Freefall calculator it would hit the ground at almost 700mph after a 31 second fall

Velocity (v)
691.8 mph

 

[spectras only]

Modern Airliners - Boeing 737

✈️The Boeing 737 concept was first mooted in 1964 and was to be a low-cost solution derived from the Boeing 727 and Boeing 707, with the first aircraft being produced in 1967. The original 737-100 was short and stocky, but over the following forty-odd years, eight more variants have been produced.

www.modernairliners.com

Component	Manufacturer
Fuselage, engine nacelles and pylon	Spirit AeroSystems, Witchita (previously Boeing)
Slats and flaps	Spirit AeroSystems, Tulsa (previously Boeing)
Wings	Boeing, Renton, Washington
Doors	Vought, Stuart, Florida
Spoilers	Goodrich, Charlotte, North Carolina
Tail Fin	Xi'an Aircraft Industry, China
Horizontal Stabiliser	Korea Aerospace Industries, South Korea
Ailerons	Asian Composites Manufacturing, Malaysia
Rudder	Bombardier, Belfast, Northern Ireland
Tail Section	Alcoa / Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing, China
Main Landing Gear Doors	Aerospace Industrial Development Corp, Taiwan
Inboard Flaps	Mitsubishi, Japan
Elevator	Fuji, Japan
Winglets	Kawasaki, Japan
Forward Entry Door	Chengdu Aircraft, China
Over-wing Exits	Chengdu Aircraft, China
Wing To Body Fairings	BHA Aero Composite Parts Co. Ltd, China
Tail Cone	BHA Aero Composite Parts Co. Ltd, China

 

[spectras only]

How the fuck does a phone fall from 16k ft and survive?!?
According to a Freefall calculator it would hit the ground at almost 700mph after a 31 second fall

Velocity (v)
691.8 mph

Terminal velocity is about 180 mph. Peregrine Falcon is the only bird that can exceed it by reaching 240 mph. If a cellphone could maintain falling on its edge all the way down, could achieve good numbers, but having almost 90% of its body flat it would flop and tumble down.

 

[Racey]

Terminal velocity is about 180 mph. Peregrine Falcon is the only bird that can exceed it by reaching 240 mph. If a cellphone could maintain falling on its edge all the way down, could achieve good numbers, but having almost 90% of its body flat it would flop and tumble down.

It would be much lower for a cell phone due to the surface area vs mass (squared vs cubed) problem.

Terminal velocity is based on mass vs apparent surface area. For a cell phone it's probably closer to 40mph

 

[hallett21]

It would be much lower for a cell phone due to the surface area vs mass (squared vs cubed) problem.

Terminal velocity is based on mass vs apparent surface area. For a cell phone it's probably closer to 40mph

Probably a dumb question but how do calculate (guess) whether it flys flat or on its side? Wouldn’t the phone want to “fly” with the least amount of resistance?

Kinda of like the penny off of the Empire State Building.

 

[spectras only]

Probably a dumb question but how do calculate (guess) whether it flys flat or on its side? Wouldn’t the phone want to “fly” with the least amount of resistance?

Kinda of like the penny off of the Empire State Building.

Have an idea. Set a Galaxie S10 Lite to video rec mode and toss it off from a highrise building. While the phone may not survive we could enjoy the finding you'd post here, if it stayed on its side going down.I'm alnost sure a penny wouldn't navigate going straight on its side either from greater hights.

 

[4Waters]

Probably a dumb question but how do calculate (guess) whether it flys flat or on its side? Wouldn’t the phone want to “fly” with the least amount of resistance?

Kinda of like the penny off of the Empire State Building.

Without fins like on a rocket to stablize it, it would tumble. I would think

 

[spectras only]

^^^ similar idea behind rifled barrel to keep a bullit from tumbling.

 

[86403]

Latest from Juan:

 

[spectras only]

I'll be surprised if Boeing stock won't suffer because of this ! Cockpit door blows out, wholy shit batman.

 

[Rajobigguy]

So I dumped all my Boeing stock at the opening bell this morning and of course the stock went up.

 

[MPHSystems]

What’s worse is that my BA just tanked

 

[2Driver]

FAA talking to Boeing

 

[Sandlord]

So I dumped all my Boeing stock at the opening bell this morning and of course the stock went up.

If you’re selling thru the Boeing VIP site, the trade wont go thru until the end of the day.

 

[Rajobigguy]

If you’re selling thru the Boeing VIP site, the trade wont go thru until the end of the day.

Trading through Scwab. Trade happened moments after the opening bell.

 

[spectras only]

BTW, did anyone hear from Pete Buttiigieg on the flying plug scenario? Maybe he's too busy with his plug on an island vacation?

 

[Racey]

Probably a dumb question but how do calculate (guess) whether it flys flat or on its side? Wouldn’t the phone want to “fly” with the least amount of resistance?

Kinda of like the penny off of the Empire State Building.

A phone will tumble, Objects actually don't tend to fall in an orientation that provides the least resistance. This is why they add fins to the back of gravity bombs, added drag at the rear keeps them oriented.

 

[Cole 392]

 

[Richard.E]

Boeing in order to expedite production has witness torque verification.. which basically allows “experienced technicians” to torque fasteners without oversight or quality reps. It’s great for lean mfg, but when there is a fuck up usually it’s affected a lot of hardware… which is a nightmare to isolate and correct.

“Mike the 3rd shift tech was torquing close out panels for the last 3 months all night long while the quality inspector scrolled Instagram at his desk” is the reality.

Meanwhile they are all union protected and nothing will happen to them.

Boeing will put out a a MyLearning training for all techs to take… while out of the side of their mouth say we are dedicated to quality and our customers… this kinda shit will continue to happen. There’s no integrity in work anymore in the industry in my opinion.

What do I know.. lol I’m just a millennial that’s been with the company since 2017.

 

[Sandlord]

Boeing in order to expedite production has witness torque verification.. which basically allows “experienced technicians” to torque fasteners without oversight or quality reps. It’s great for lean mfg, but when there is a fuck up usually it’s affected a lot of hardware… which is a nightmare to isolate and correct.

“Mike the 3rd shift tech was torquing close out panels for the last 3 months all night long while the quality inspector scrolled Instagram at his desk” is the reality.

Meanwhile they are all union protected and nothing will happen to them.

Boeing will put out a a MyLearning training for all techs to take… while out of the side of their mouth say we are dedicated to quality and our customers… this kinda shit will continue to happen. There’s no integrity in work anymore in the industry in my opinion.

What do I know.. lol I’m just a millennial that’s been with the company since 2017.

Kinda like when Harry and Phil (Co-CEO’s) got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
They got their 8 figure severance package,
While everyone else got to sit thru ethics seminars for years.

 

[Angler]

Fixed.

 

[Bigbore500r]

I've got to take a flight next week. Note to self - don't sit by the "windowless" seat behind the wing......

Crazy thing is - the difference between you living and dying if you were near that failed door plug, is if you would have left your seatbelt on
That thing would suck you right out if you were seated next to it!

 

[Sandlord]

Its not easy to detect a door plug from inside the cabin.
There is still a regular size window and overhead bins.
But the spacing between the windows is just a bit larger.

 

[mjc]

So I dumped all my Boeing stock at the opening bell this morning and of course the stock went up.

I am still way up on mine, bought when the max crash thing was happening.

 

[Rajobigguy]

I am still way up on mine, bought when the max crash thing was happening.

Oh I’m not really complaining I made 22 percent and will probably buy back in after the dust has settled.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Praying.