400A Residential Panels

[Taboma]

when i did the rv garage at the cowboy house, went with 400a.... had to up the wire size all the way to the pole... and it was only 15' away from the pole...

Of course, those conductors were on the secondary (120/240v) side of that transformer, not the primary 5 or 12KV side.

 

[Taboma]

I am not sure how it feeds the 2-200 amp panels. I thought electrician ran 2 underground service cables to the house thinking at first I just needed 1 200 amp panel but we quickly add too much stuff for one panel. It's nice as when I put my pool in I had a 100 amps easily available off of one of the panels to tap off of. There is still plenty of room for more breakers. I can ask the electrician when I get back up to Central Washington state (this house is by the Columbia river.) I am currently at my place in La Quinta because winter sucks up there!!

Probably a great idea to inquire, knowing where your main breakers are and what they are, are important to know, especially if one trips.

 

[Oggie]

I found a picture of the outside where it come in on 2 separate feeds to meter. I have no idea how it goes to the 2-200 amp panels inside. Those have 200 amp shutoff breakers.

 

[Taboma]

I found a picture of the outside where it come in on 2 separate feeds to meter. I have no idea how it goes to the 2-200 amp panels inside. Those have 200 amp shutoff breakers.

Appears to be a 400 Amp with dual lugs designed to split two services, one to each 200A main Panel. Maybe some of the other sparkys on RDP are familiar with this rather newer concept that seems to be born of the current trend of 400 Amp residential metering.
I've only done something slightly similar in more of an industrial application under the strict "Tap off" rules. This method seems to leave the service feeders to the two-200A panels unprotected, except whatever protection is on the utility side of the meter.

Interesting, thanks for following up.

 

[Oggie]

Thanks for the advice on the feeders being unprotected. This house was built in 2010 along with the electrical. I will talk to the electrician about this .The code now in this area has shutoffs on the outside of the house. I am not sure they are protected . The folks that have those say it is for in case of fire and they need to turn off power to the house from the outside. The builders/owners say you better not piss off anyone as they can shutoff your power especially if you are gone for along time.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I'm going off memory here, but NEC used to allow a main breaker at the panel if it was within 6 (8?) Feet of the meter. We have services like that everywhere on my system.

It is my understanding that recent changes now require an external disconnect on all residential services. But if it was built in 2010 it probably still "meets code"....


... I think...

 

[mjc]

Appears to be a 400 Amp with dual lugs designed to split two services, one to each 200A main Panel. Maybe some of the other sparkys on RDP are familiar with this rather newer concept that seems to be born of the current trend of 400 Amp residential metering.
I've only done something slightly similar in more of an industrial application under the strict "Tap off" rules. This method seems to leave the service feeders to the two-200A panels unprotected, except whatever protection is on the utility side of the meter.

Interesting, thanks for following up.

My 400 amp panel has a 2 200 breakers, 1 goes to the built in panel the other is for a subpanel somewhere else. Mine 200 feeds garage and 2nd breaker feed my old main 200 amp panel now a subpanel for the house.

 

[Taboma]

My 400 amp panel has a 2 200 breakers, 1 goes to the built in panel the other is for a subpanel somewhere else. Mine 200 feeds garage and 2nd breaker feed my old main 200 amp panel now a subpanel for the house.

Yes, that's more of a conventional method, where your meter and main panel are combined and you're branching off to another 200A subpanel.
Oggie's is different in that there is no 400A main breaker. The meter socket bussing has dual lugs and the service itself is being split off to two remote Main Panels, not subpanels.

 

[Taboma]

Thanks for the advice on the feeders being unprotected. This house was built in 2010 along with the electrical. I will talk to the electrician about this .The code now in this area has shutoffs on the outside of the house. I am not sure they are protected . The folks that have those say it is for in case of fire and they need to turn off power to the house from the outside. The builders/owners say you better not piss off anyone as they can shutoff your power especially if you are gone for along time.

It appears to me that entire outside enclosure is the 'Utility Side" and the "Customer Side" starts at the two-200A panels.
I wouldn't be overly concerned with the two utility side service feeders, it appears they go underground and are really not much different than any underground utility service that would normally serve your meter.
Normally on the load side of your meter, it's either bussed or wired across to the customer section where your main panel breakers would be. In this case it leaves the meter and branches to two main breaker panels located elsewhere.

If it were mine and everything worked find, I'd leave it alone. Otherwise you'll end up spending money to add a 400A main panel, making the other two sub-panels, which might require resizing the conductors based on breaker size rather than calculated load.

Probably best not to piss folks off anyway, especially if the place will be vacant for extended periods. Panels can be locked, but there's plenty of other shit vandals can do if they set their mind to it.

I'm certainly not saying what you have is bad, or inherently dangerous, it's just rather unconventional and I'm not sure all utilities would even entertain the idea.
I'll ask my son if he's encountered it, he specializes in residential.

 

[Taboma]

I'm going off memory here, but NEC used to allow a main breaker at the panel if it was within 6 (8?) Feet of the meter. We have services like that everywhere on my system.

It is my understanding that recent changes now require an external disconnect on all residential services. But if it was built in 2010 it probably still "meets code"....


... I think...

Separate meter and panel enclosures were quite common back in the day. But most as you stated are within a few feet of the meter.

 

[Joe mama]

Appears to be a 400 Amp with dual lugs designed to split two services, one to each 200A main Panel. Maybe some of the other sparkys on RDP are familiar with this rather newer concept that seems to be born of the current trend of 400 Amp residential metering.
I've only done something slightly similar in more of an industrial application under the strict "Tap off" rules. This method seems to leave the service feeders to the two-200A panels unprotected, except whatever protection is on the utility side of the meter.

Interesting, thanks for following up.

Agree

 

[Oggie]

Appreciate all the input. The 2 panels with the 200 amp main breakers are on the other side of the wall within the 6 feet of the meter. It has been trouble free for 12 years. It sounds like I will leave it as is.

 

[Taboma]

Appreciate all the input. The 2 panels with the 200 amp main breakers are on the other side of the wall within the 6 feet of the meter. It has been trouble free for 12 years. It sounds like I will leave it as is.

OK, so that's the two conduits exiting the rear of the meter enclosure. I'm a bit puzzled by the two (Parallel) UG conduits that are apparently providing line power to the meter, I would expect only one larger one.
Yet, very little of what's been shared with a pic or described so far has been 'Conventional', but certainly intriguing none the less.

Hell no, don't change anything, even better the panels are so close and most likely served by metallic conduit or those wall nipples.

Curious, is this general area a good location to enjoy summers ? I'd imagine it's pretty and with the Columbia river there, plenty of boating opportunities.

 

[Oggie]

The Columbia river has dams from Grand Coulee on down. Lots of reservoirs to boat on. Mainly desert with agriculture along the river. We are in a community called Desert Aire on the Columbia with a 18 hole golf course, driving range, boat launch etc. Warm (100's in the summer) from May until Oct then the pool shuts down and it gets cold. The pool is frozen right now. . Originally came here as a vacation home to get out of Seattle's sometime crappy summers. The rainy weather usually does not make it here only 6 inches of average rain per year. Now I go to La Quinta Ca to escape the winter. I know I am crazy having a place in Washington and California. I have a few more years and will eventually escape these 2 states to a place I am more in tune with politically.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Talked to 4 wholesale suppliers today. 2 don’t sell Square D, one can’t get an answer on any ETA and the last has 500 panels on order, 120 of those are back orders and the soonest I’d see a 400A panel from them is May or June. They’re saying that’s not guaranteed either and I should convince the electrician to pick up any 400A panel from Eaton or Siemens that we can get today. Or course, none of this is my call.

 

[Taboma]

The Columbia river has dams from Grand Coulee on down. Lots of reservoirs to boat on. Mainly desert with agriculture along the river. We are in a community called Desert Aire on the Columbia with a 18 hole golf course, driving range, boat launch etc. Warm (100's in the summer) from May until Oct then the pool shuts down and it gets cold. The pool is frozen right now. . Originally came here as a vacation home to get out of Seattle's sometime crappy summers. The rainy weather usually does not make it here only 6 inches of average rain per year. Now I go to La Quinta Ca to escape the winter. I know I am crazy having a place in Washington and California. I have a few more years and will eventually escape these 2 states to a place I am more in tune with politically.

Thanks for the info, older than dirt and have never visited that part of the country.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Alrighty, electrician agreed to install the APS approved Eaton 400 and 200A sub panels so we’re back on track. Thank god for knowing the right people. I’ve got one of only 3 panels known to man in AZ.

 

[dspracing]

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[LuauLounge]

Not in stock, but price looks more in line.

View attachment 1200151 View attachment 1200151

 

[LuauLounge]

 

[FROGMAN524]

They installed the Eaton panels a couple of weeks ago.