4 seat speed UTV

[Icky]

I know a stack of dimes
A stack of dimes is my friend
That sir is not a stack of dimes.

View attachment 1052091

It looks like my change drawer

 

[2Driver]

I'm not sure if I'm more hesitant about the vaccine or the speed car at this point.

Niether are showing evidence they will work this winter.

 

[Racer56]

The thing I noticed the most from the pictures other than the welds, enough has been said about those, was the back seat. Doesn't seem and big as I thought it would be. Although I would never site in the back seat if I owned one I do think of the wife and kids back there. The RZR back seat is super cramped even for a smaller person.

I sat in the backseat for 10 minutes at the sand show, I'm 5'11" 170. It's tight getting in the back seat but once you get in, there is plenty of room as long as the drivers seat is not all the way back. The seats are raised and the doors are cut down, giving backseat passengers a better than normal view. Four big guys in the car would not be comfortable for long rides, but women and children in back will have all of the room they could ask for.

 

[RCDave]

Counting on a warranty on a brand new company without material sales, perhaps just a tad optimistic.......lol

 

[DLC]

that weld looks great!!!

On RZR forums , they say these are the welds on the Speed car ?

 

[Dirty Air]

I sat in the backseat for 10 minutes at the sand show, I'm 5'11" 170. It's tight getting in the back seat but once you get in, there is plenty of room as long as the drivers seat is not all the way back. The seats are raised and the doors are cut down, giving backseat passengers a better than normal view. Four big guys in the car would not be comfortable for long rides, but women and children in back will have all of the room they could ask for.

"Four big guys in the car would not be comfortable for long rides"

That wouldn't comfortable regardless of space or how long the ride is!!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Counting on a warranty on a brand new company without material sales, perhaps just a tad optimistic.......lol

Maybe you’ve never see what people go through that but new toy haulers. You want to talk about optimism? Buying a trailer for $50-$100k and then resigning yourself to the fact that it will be at the shop for 4 months of the first year you own it and probably another 4 months the second year.

I’m not that worried about it honestly. They have been testing the drivetrain for a year. The suspension is gonna be fine. Temps and cooling are on my radar. If that is a problem there will be many of us with pitchforks, not just me.

If there are problems it might be in the electronics or display. If a plastic panel doesn’t fit right I can deal with it.

Like I said.. I can roll the thing down hill to the mothership in Havasu.

I don’t tell anyone else how stupid they are with their money unless they ask me.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I sat in the backseat for 10 minutes at the sand show, I'm 5'11" 170. It's tight getting in the back seat but once you get in, there is plenty of room as long as the drivers seat is not all the way back. The seats are raised and the doors are cut down, giving backseat passengers a better than normal view. Four big guys in the car would not be comfortable for long rides, but women and children in back will have all of the room they could ask for.

10 minutes?!? YOU were one of those people !

 

[RCDave]

Maybe you’ve never see what people go through that but new toy haulers. You want to talk about optimism? Buying a trailer for $50-$100k and then resigning yourself to the fact that it will be at the shop for 4 months of the first year you own it and probably another 4 months the second year.

I’m not that worried about it honestly. They have been testing the drivetrain for a year. The suspension is gonna be fine. Temps and cooling are on my radar. If that is a problem there will be many of us with pitchforks, not just me.

If there are problems it might be in the electronics or display. If a plastic panel doesn’t fit right I can deal with it.

Like I said.. I can roll the thing down hill to the mothership in Havasu.

I don’t tell anyone else how stupid they are with their money unless they ask me.

Does that justify placing "faith" in a warranty in this situation. I guess it depends on how much "disposable cash" one has.

Let's postulate the net profit margin a start up company has on 1st year revenues. In the vast majority of circumstances negligible at best. And not much to Faith a warranty in.

But don't worry, all will be just fine!

 

[Racer56]

10 minutes?!? YOU were one of those people !

Yep and I was in the drivers seat even longer!!

 

[Bobby V]

Ashley is a guy? This thread is confusing

LOF must be British..

 

[mash on it]

Like ol' GN-7 would say-
"Strap it to the dyno, and go to lunch.
See what's left when we get back."

That's a test.
Time will tell.

Dan'l

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Does that justify placing "faith" in a warranty in this situation. I guess it depends on how much "disposable cash" one has.

Let's postulate the net profit margin a start up company has on 1st year revenues. In the vast majority of circumstances negligible at best. And not much to Faith a warranty in.

Like I said 40 pages ago, it is not for everyone and there is risk. If this isn’t for you, don’t buy one.

We can pontificate on hypothetical situations forever. If they have a mass warranty event that means they are delivering shitloads of cars. If they are consistently delivering on the half a billion dollars of pending orders I’m pretty sure they will be able to get working capital to address warranty issues if they don’t have cash, the upside is too great, and both RG and TR have done pretty well in business to date. I’m not too worried there except for the time and latency for the repair. That is part of the risk, and why these things were cheap in the beginning.

If they never deliver cars there will be no warranty issues.

If they put out 1000 cars 6 months after they go on sale and have a expensive component failure, maybe it will be a problem, but it is a small one. But again with $500M in orders pending, no one packs up and calls it quits they will get cash.

They clearly aren’t rushing the cars to market.

To be honest with you I’d be more concerned if in 2 weeks they say they are starting production than if they say they are starting production in December.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Like ol' GN-7 would say-
"Strap it to the dyno, and go to lunch.
See what's left when we get back."

That's a test.
Time will tell.

Dan'l

They ran the engine on a dyno at full load for 90 mins among other tests. I think they posted the run on YouTube or insta or something.

If you look up the guys that actually designed that engine... they are no joke.

Albins designed the trans and diffs. As long as the components inside are good and don’t fail, we good.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

LOF must be British..

Hell no.

 

[Bigbore500r]

In before the elimination

 

[WhatExit?]

A new UTV that was $20k 20 years ago is close to $30k today. Custom new UTVs that were $40K new are mid $50s today.

I gave them the deposit and invested the rest of the cash I was gonna use to pay it off. The deposit has even gained value in itself, and in locking in the low price.

The invested money... well use your imagination for the last 18 months.

So here’s the thing:

People are selling/buying spots in line for a thing that doesn’t yet exist.

Any gains means there are more people who want to buy a spot than there are spots in line to buy a thing that doesn’t exist. (Supply and demand of spots).

If something happens and shit goes sideways (actually a number of possibilities could make that happen) then those spots’ value (“the investments”) will drop faster than that bolt welder.

What’s going on now is “investing” the trading of positions until/if cars are delivered. And there’s no guarantee that will happen. If it doesn’t there will be a lot of people left with nothing.

Note: there’s no reason to believe shit will go sideways. But to think that’s not possible takes too much money and/or ignorance of history.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So here’s the thing:

People are selling/buying spots in line for a thing that doesn’t yet exist.

Any gains means there are more people who want to buy a spot than there are spots in line to buy a thing that doesn’t exist. (Supply and demand of spots).

If something happens and shit goes sideways (actually a number of possibilities could make that happen) then those spots’ value (“the investments”) will drop faster than that bolt welder.

What’s going on now is “investing” the trading of positions until/if cars are delivered. And there’s no guarantee that will happen. If it doesn’t there will be a lot of people left with nothing.

Note: there’s no reason to believe shit will go sideways. But to think that’s not possible takes too much money and/or ignorance of history.

There are an “infinite” amount of spots, you can go reserve a car right now, no one will stop you. The question is do you want to be at the back of the line or the front.

Can you wait for your C8, Raptor, (insert new thing here) or do you want It when it first comes out? If you want it when it first comes out, it is gonna cost you.

Now add in the fact that the price has gone up $6k way back there at the back of the line.

People sell their car “orders” for cars that don’t exist yet privately all the time. This is nothing new. No one said it is not without risk however.

 

[JB in so cal]

So this is a product that hasn't been delivered close to when it was promised nor are there any showroom samples to check out. The guy behind the development said he's gonna track down anyone that sells one before it's suppose to be sold. They cost a grip of cash and the recent show allowed people interested to see shifty welds, poorly designed doors and a host of other issues. And there have been hundreds of not thousands of people that have put down deposits.

Is this a government program?

 

[Racer56]

So this is a product that hasn't been delivered close to when it was promised nor are there any showroom samples to check out. The guy behind the development said he's gonna track down anyone that sells one before it's suppose to be sold. They cost a grip of cash and the recent show allowed people interested to see shifty welds, poorly designed doors and a host of other issues. And there have been hundreds of not thousands of people that have put down deposits.

Is this a government program?

Your assessment is a bit flawed.

 

[WhatExit?]

Your assessment is a bit flawed.

how is his “assessment flawed?”

 

[Racer56]

how is his “assessment flawed?”

Speed anticipated a 2021 release of production vehicles, never promised.

I've been able to see and sit in the cars at Desert Storm and Sand Sport.

Robby said he would eliminate anyone that was talking shit on the internet and had a master number.

Car for car if you ordered one when they were announced, they are cheaper than the competition for a comparable vehicle.

Speed has over 12,000 cars on order.

 

[Taboma]

They ran the engine on a dyno at full load for 90 mins among other tests. I think they posted the run on YouTube or insta or something.

If you look up the guys that actually designed that engine... they are no joke.

Albins designed the trans and diffs. As long as the components inside are good and don’t fail, we good.

I would like to look up the guys who actually designed the engine now that you mentioned it, please share if you know.

 

[FROGMAN524]

who are you talking about?

Your moderator. The all knowing one.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So this is a product that hasn't been delivered close to when it was promised nor are there any showroom samples to check out. The guy behind the development said he's gonna track down anyone that sells one before it's suppose to be sold. They cost a grip of cash and the recent show allowed people interested to see shifty welds, poorly designed doors and a host of other issues. And there have been hundreds of not thousands of people that have put down deposits.

Is this a government program?

If you don’t like it, don’t buy one. Every issue seen was addressable and fixable before production, and there weren’t that many. A few bad robot welds and some panels that needed adjustment. It really seems insurmountable.

Did Ford share a preproduction Bronco with anyone that had one on order? Nope. It was just years late, riddled with flaws, and deliveries stopped. Most that have them on order are still waiting.

 

[Santee_Native]

I would like to look up the guys who actually designed the engine now that you mentioned it, please share if you know.

Here is one of the dyno runs.

Tony Cola and Joey Arrington helped with the engine.

 

[Taboma]

Here is one of the dyno runs.

Tony Cola and Joey Arrington helped with the engine.

Certainly accredited engine builders, and impressive numbers, but most engine builders don't engineer and design an engine along with all it's internal components from scratch.
Just wondering is it has been a proven design, used in another or other products, modified or strengthened for this vehicle ?
Obviously, although a high revving engine, it's not the Yamaha from the XX as one example.
The original Polaris Rzr engines I've been told were originally designed as an industrial engine, just using that as an example.

 

[HCP3]

Here is one of the dyno runs.

Tony Cola and Joey Arrington helped with the engine.

Both of them work at Race Engines Plus out of North Carolina.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Certainly accredited engine builders, and impressive numbers, but most engine builders don't engineer and design an engine along with all it's internal components from scratch.
Just wondering is it has been a proven design, used in another or other products, modified or strengthened for this vehicle ?
Obviously, although a high revving engine, it's not the Yamaha from the XX as one example.
The original Polaris Rzr engines I've been told were originally designed as an industrial engine, just using that as an example.

The folks from REP (Arrington and Cola) have an extensive history in NASCAR engine and cylinder head design, specifically from the Dodge program.

This engine was a 100% new design from a clean sheet of paper for Speed, for this application. A lot of the engine takes cues from car engines.

The block is like a car block - Aluminum with iron liners, and therefor easily rebuildable
The head has coolant bleeds to eliminate hot spots in the head like an LS cylinder head.

 

[Taboma]

The folks from REP (Arrington and Cola) have an extensive history in NASCAR engine and cylinder head design, specifically from the Dodge program.

This engine was a 100% new design from a clean sheet of paper for Speed, for this application. A lot of the engine takes cues from car engines.

The block is like a car block - Aluminum with iron liners, and therefor easily rebuildable
The head has coolant bleeds to eliminate hot spots in the head like an LS cylinder head.

Wonder what it costs to design a new engine completely from scratch ? That's a whole lot of engineering and design work when you figure just how many tiny components there are even in a two cylinder engine. Even if it was designed to work with more off-the-shelf parts where possible, wow, impressive.

 

[Lavey5150]

Here's Next Level when the Unicorn blows up.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Wonder what it costs to design a new engine completely from scratch ? That's a whole lot of engineering and design work when you figure just how many tiny components there are even in a two cylinder engine. Even if it was designed to work with more off-the-shelf parts where possible, wow, impressive.

Now you see one of the reasons the cars are late. When this project started they had indented on sourcing an engine.

 

[Taboma]

Now you see one of the reasons the cars are late. When this project started they had indented on sourcing an engine.

I agree, huge and expensive undertaking. I'm not a hater or nay-sayer, I hope it works for everybody involved. If I had a deposit down I'd surely be anxious and chomping at the bit like so many are. But, I also realize and learned by experience in construction, when you push to hard to meet deadlines, quality will surely suffer.

I'm already sportin a car with RG's initials on it that works perfect for our needs, especially since I did the dust, heat and noise mitigation work. We're not rowdy offroaders, we slow cruise explore and enjoy the sights, only occasionally do I " Blow out the carbon ", and even the paltry by comparison, 130 hp feels damned lively.
I just wish he'd get his Havasu shop open and perform service on our XX, since I'd imagine he's got guys who know their way around them.

 

[Groper]

@30 sec. she's getting warm @50 sec. she's cherry red Daaauuummm but don't worry we'll slap a head shield on it and call her good LOL. (emotion's no worky)
Well at least you know nobody will keep these things floored for more than a few seconds anyway. (emotion's no worky)
It does sound pretty solid.

 

[mash on it]

.

Now you see one of the reasons the cars are late. When this project started they had indented on sourcing an engine.

Hasn't the engine been done for a year?

Dan'l

 

[Taboma]

Have these cars received CARB certification ?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

.

Hasn't the engine been done for a year?

Dan'l

Over a year.

Do you want to argue they haven’t tested their engine enough? Or they are testing it too much?

That was all shit they would have offloaded to the engine supplier that they had to take time to do themselves.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Have these cars received CARB certification ?

Supposedly yes, I can’t find record of it. I can’t find record of the CARB cert for the new Polaris car either though.

 

[RCDave]

Over a year.

Do you want to argue they haven’t tested their engine enough? Or they are testing it too much?

Why does it matter if the carcus is riddled with those welds!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Why does it matter if the carcus is riddled with those welds!

It doesn’t matter, no customers are taking delivery of those cars.

 

[mash on it]

Over a year.

I just asked a question.
Thanks for the answer.

Do you want to argue they haven’t tested their engine enough? Or they are testing it too much?

That was all shit they would have offloaded to the engine supplier that they had to take time to do themselves.

This is all ego.
That's all I got

Dan'l

 

[riverroyal]

Pop a wheelie and break a weld.

 

[Riley1]

No dog in this fight. I was eagerly awaiting the 4XX 5 years ago. Have since gotten out of the SxS scene. Reminds me more if a seadoo, and I like boats.

I will add though, that I had the misfortune of meeting Robby a couple times, worked at the FBO in chino where he kept his Leer. Lent my gate card to him too. Full of empty promises and fake smiles.

6 years later, he still hasn’t delivered the 4 seat car he advertised. 6 years!

 

[Blackmagic94]

Can’t wait for independent views

No dog in this fight. I was eagerly awaiting the 4XX 5 years ago. Have since gotten out of the SxS scene. Reminds me more if a seadoo, and I like boats.

I will add though, that I had the misfortune of meeting Robby a couple times, worked at the FBO in chino where he kept his Leer. Lent my gate card to him too. Full of empty promises and fake smiles.

6 years later, he still hasn’t delivered the 4 seat car he advertised. 6 years!

Interesting but what is the penalty of handing your FAA or TWIC card to someone else. Sounds like a poor choice

 

[Riley1]

Didn’t

Can’t wait for independent views



Interesting but what is the penalty of handing your FAA or TWIC card to someone else. Sounds like a poor choice

Didn’t say it was a good choice. lol. this was 13 years ago. Just speaking to his character.

 

[RiverDave]

The thing I noticed the most from the pictures other than the welds, enough has been said about those, was the back seat. Doesn't seem and big as I thought it would be. Although I would never site in the back seat if I owned one I do think of the wife and kids back there. The RZR back seat is super cramped even for a smaller person.

I was a little surprised how small it was. There was people sitting in it and they fit… but damn I don’t think my fat ass would want to be there.

 

[Racey]

View attachment 1051162

Ok, RG fan or not, that's funny shit

 

[Blubyu]

Supposed to be a Live tonight, right? Think he addresses any of this weld talk everyone has been talking about?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

No dog in this fight. I was eagerly awaiting the 4XX 5 years ago. Have since gotten out of the SxS scene. Reminds me more if a seadoo, and I like boats.

I will add though, that I had the misfortune of meeting Robby a couple times, worked at the FBO in chino where he kept his Leer. Lent my gate card to him too. Full of empty promises and fake smiles.

6 years later, he still hasn’t delivered the 4 seat car he advertised. 6 years!

No doubt he has made many douche moves. but he was one of the original voices to make 4 seat cars. He made the original concept RZR 800 4 seater in 2009. That car was actually at the show off to the side.

My friend worked at Textron and led the Wildcat XX design team. Robby lobbied them HARD to make a 4 seat version. Textron said there was no market for it. Robby has more orders for 4 seat Speed cars than there are 2 seat Wildcat XXs in existence. Had Textron made a 4 seater, this whole deal wouldn't exist at all.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I was a little surprised how small it was. There was people sitting in it and they fit… but damn I don’t think my fat ass would want to be there.

The wheelbase of this thing is only 3" longer than our RZRs. And yea the rear door is small.