2013 BlueWater 336 Enduro - small update

[RiverDave]

I am just trying to keep people somewhat informed.

Here's where we are at as of right now. A lot of things have been said by a lot of people about this race. A lot of things have been said about me personally. I will not claim some kind of innocence here, I have said a lot of things that I believe to be true as well. NONE OF IT MATTERS..

Lets just get back to racing.

For this years race the rules that have been submitted to the APBA for approval are essentially the same as last years for every single boat except for the Nordic. I hope that answers the main questions that the racers have been asking.

The "Hang Up" is basically tailoring some specific rules around the boat to get the closing speeds to a reasonable level. I am unsure of the specifics of it, but I believe they are going to make them run a prop / pitch that will slow the boat down to where some of the other boats would be at, and that's under review right now. The long story short, that portion under review is why they haven't been signed off on yet, and why we haven't officially posted them.

We have our coast guard permit under review right now, and Scott is finishing (or has finished) the final portion of the safety plan to be submitted to the coast guard so we should have that wrapped up completely from our end either today / tomorrow.

The rest of the updates are primarily things that I have been working on or have to do with promotion. I will have a meeting with Scott tonight and update the things above if there is more to add.

"RiverDavesPlace LLC" - was finalized over the weekend and is now in place.
Tribal Permits for CRIT - Have been mailed and should be in place as soon as they receive the check.



Initial Teaser Graphics are done, but we will have several iterations before the race, and the graphics department is working on shirt graphics.

Met with Mad Dog communications and have a plan and a budget for radio advertisements to cover from the 40 to the 10 freeway for promotion for 30 days running approximately 200 ads across 3 stations.
Met with several printing companies to discuss options on "programs" and have settled in on a 32 page program and depending upon entries / sponsorships we will either be running 1000 of them or 2000 of them.
Working on sponsorship packages for companies today, and should have something "presentable" to send out day after tomorrow as soon as the graphics guys get them done.

(this will be added too throughout the day)

RD

 

[RiverDave]

If you are planning on running the Enduro this year, we are going to have "team profiles" in the program. I would like to get a head start on as much of the program layout as possible as it's going to be a huge undertaking in itself. If you wouldn't mind, please e-mail me the following if you are planning on running.

Members and titles of your team : Person A - Driver Person B - Crew Chief etc..
Boat # and photos of team / boat (If you do not have professional grade pictures of your boat. do not worry. If you have run the Enduro before we will have pics of the boat)
A brief Story about your team. How long you have been racing the Enduro? What brought the team together? Anything unique about the boat / team itself? etc..
Any specifics on the boat you would like to share? Hull type / motor builder / specs / etc.. Other races you campaign in. Career accomplishments? SPONSORS FOR YOUR TEAM..

All of the information that is sent to me will be kept in confidence, and not published until the registrations are in, and the programs are actually published / printed and delivered at the race itself.

[email protected]

 

[PWhitcomb]

I am just trying to keep people somewhat informed.

Here's where we are at as of right now. A lot of things have been said by a lot of people about this race. A lot of things have been said about me personally. I will not claim some kind of innocence here, I have said a lot of things that I believe to be true as well. NONE OF IT MATTERS..

Lets just get back to racing.

For this years race the rules that have been submitted to the APBA for approval are essentially the same as last years for every single boat except for the Nordic. I hope that answers the main questions that the racers have been asking.

The "Hang Up" is basically tailoring some specific rules around the boat to get the closing speeds to a reasonable level. I am unsure of the specifics of it, but I believe they are going to make them run a prop / pitch that will slow the boat down to where some of the other boats would be at, and that's under review right now. The long story short, that portion under review is why they haven't been signed off on yet, and why we haven't officially posted them.

We have our coast guard permit under review right now, and Scott is finishing (or has finished) the final portion of the safety plan to be submitted to the coast guard so we should have that wrapped up completely from our end either today / tomorrow.

The rest of the updates are primarily things that I have been working on or have to do with promotion. I will have a meeting with Scott tonight and update the things above if there is more to add.

"RiverDavesPlace LLC" - was finalized over the weekend and is now in place.
Tribal Permits for CRIT - Have been mailed and should be in place as soon as they receive the check.



Initial Teaser Graphics are done, but we will have several iterations before the race, and the graphics department is working on shirt graphics.

Met with Mad Dog communications and have a plan and a budget for radio advertisements to cover from the 40 to the 10 freeway for promotion for 30 days running approximately 200 ads across 3 stations.
Met with several printing companies to discuss options on "programs" and have settled in on a 32 page program and depending upon entries / sponsorships we will either be running 1000 of them or 2000 of them.
Working on sponsorship packages for companies today, and should have something "presentable" to send out day after tomorrow as soon as the graphics guys get them done.

(this will be added too throughout the day)

RD

You will probably remove this post but you and Scott are in way over your heads and knowledge. That is why you are 60 days out with A- no approved rules, B- No CG permits, C- No Officials Staff, D- No set and approved Safety procedure, E- No approved INS, F- No rescue team capable of handling an open course race like this or do you at this point even have enough patrol boats commited to secure a race course.

All of your response to many of the real questions that have been asked about this event are diverted to I am talking with Scott tonight or response of were working this out. What you need to understand is this is not a joke nor is it a closed course event. I understand you have proposed a 12 ml course, the lack of experience that you and Scott bring to the table to run this event is going to get one of these drivers hurt.

Pull the plug on this so you don't destroy what took 8 years to build and even worse hurt someone. I would also suggest that you do not reply that all precautions are being taken for these drivers, as you and Scott have no idea what precautions need to be taken based on your past records of putting on boat races.....

 

[RiverDave]

You will probably remove this post but you and Scott are in way over your heads and knowledge. That is why you are 60 days out with A- no approved rules, B- No CG permits, C- No Officials Staff, D- No set and approved Safety procedure, E- No approved INS, F- No rescue team capable of handling an open course race like this or do you at this point even have enough patrol boats commited to secure a race course.

All of your response to many of the real questions that have been asked about this event are diverted to I am talking with Scott tonight or response of were working this out. What you need to understand is this is not a joke nor is it a closed course event. I understand you have proposed a 12 ml course, the lack of experience that you and Scott bring to the table to run this event is going to get one of these drivers hurt.

Pull the plug on this so you don't destroy what took 8 years to build and even worse hurt someone. I would also suggest that you do not reply that all precautions are being taken for these drivers, as you and Scott have no idea what precautions need to be taken based on your past records of putting on boat races.....

Pwhitcomb, This thing isn't over anyones head. It's really not as complicated as a lot of people are making it out to be.

For example that entire statement about "safety" above is based on perception and not reality.

The safety crew comes recommended from the APBA on their "wish list" of what THEY would like to see in a race course as far as safety. It's not a Scott thing, or a Dave thing. It's a simple question to an organization that sanctions races.

"What would you like to see as far as safety, patrol boats, rescue boats, etc. If YOU could do it anyway you want" APBA response : We would like too see XYZ. (This guy, this crew supported with this many boats etc)

OK then XYZ it is. Anybody in the APBA will tell you this plan has in fact MORE SAFETY then the old plans on the short course.

As for the rest..

A. Been hung up with never ending politics.. Finally past that, and waiting on approval currently.
B. Been hung up with never ending politics.. Finally past that, and waiting on approval currently.
C. I actually believe we already do have the officials, but that's not my department.
E. Approved Insurance comes immediately after the sanction / rules approval.
F. Terry Toby's team is more then capable of handling the rescue for this event.

RD

 

[PWhitcomb]

Pwhitcomb, This thing isn't over anyones head. It's really not as complicated as a lot of people are making it out to be.

For example that entire statement about "safety" above is based on perception and not reality.

The safety crew comes recommended from the APBA on their "wish list" of what THEY would like to see in a race course as far as safety. It's not a Scott thing, or a Dave thing. It's a simple question to an organization that sanctions races.

"What would you like to see as far as safety, patrol boats, rescue boats, etc. If YOU could do it anyway you want" APBA response : We would like too see XYZ. (This guy, this crew supported with this many boats etc)

OK then XYZ it is. Anybody in the APBA will tell you this plan has in fact MORE SAFETY then the old plans on the short course.

As for the rest..

A. Been hung up with never ending politics.. Finally past that, and waiting on approval currently.
B. Been hung up with never ending politics.. Finally past that, and waiting on approval currently.
C. I actually believe we already do have the officials, but that's not my department.
E. Approved Insurance comes immediately after the sanction / rules approval.
F. Terry Toby's team is more then capable of handling the rescue for this event.

RD

Your kidding yourself and fooling others.

let me see if you can give some clairification of your SAFETY for this race?

What is your APBA number

How many rescue boats staffed with divers for either a 6 or 12 mile course

How many patrol boats

What is the response time to a driver who enters the water

Now as far as your statement to APBA and recomendations. That what they are and at best the minimum, if you are going by those you will fail!!!!!

How many incident reports have you filled out, how many drivers have you visited in the hospital, and how many families have you had to call. So when you make a statement to me the Safety is based on preception and not reality, you have just solidified your lack of knowledge, experience, and capibilities of running a safe race. Go do your homework......

As to your response that all the issue were tied up in politics, next race try creating something other than a name for the event. It is not politics, it's a staff of officials trying to protect what they created and have in documentation.

 

[BigSteve]

Your kidding yourself and fooling others.

let me see if you can give some clairification of your SAFETY for this race?

What is your APBA number

How many rescue boats staffed with divers for either a 6 or 12 mile course

How many patrol boats

What is the response time to a driver who enters the water

Now as far as your statement to APBA and recomendations. That what they are and at best the minimum, if you are going by those you will fail!!!!!

How many incident reports have you filled out, how many drivers have you visited in the hospital, and how many families have you had to call. So when you make a statement to me the Safety is based on preception and not reality, you have just solidified your lack of knowledge, experience, and capibilities of running a safe race. Go do your homework......

As to your response that all the issue were tied up in politics, next race try creating something other than a name for the event. It is not politics, it's a staff of officials trying to protect what they created and have in documentation.

At the end of the day the APBA will or will not approve the race RIGHT !

So, lets hear about your team, boat , crew chief and drivers.

I'm looking forward to the longer course, the short course is boring IMHO

 

[GN22]

Is it possible to get a dollar amount for each class winner to see if its worth running this race! What about a roll call? hard to fill a 32 page program if we don't no who is racing or who is sponsoring the event, sponsors on poster look pretty thin (just sayin)

 

[138]

Longer course that's smart! Hope you get secondary insurance Dave. There is no way you could get enough rescue boats on that long of a course.

 

[IN AWE]

At the end of the day the APBA will or will not approve the race RIGHT !

So lets here about your team,boat,crew chief and drivers.

I 'am looking forward to the longer course, the short course is boring IMHO

You should know who PWhitcomb is. He is the chief referee for the SCSC and was an assistant referee for the APBA (still might be). He and his family have been involved in behind the scenes boat racing since before he was in high school.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

 

[BigSteve]

You should know who PWhitcomb is. He is the chief referee for the SCSC and was an assistant referee for the APBA (still might be). He and his family have been involved in behind the scenes boat racing since before he was in high school.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

Good post

No, I don't know him.

I do know that the long course has been run many times in the past

And I would like to run the long course :thumbup:

I want to here more positive things about the race

I am just sick of all the Bullshit

That's why I don't do Show and Shines or Park and Blabs

I like to just get in and drive, and leave the Bullshit behind

I enjoy the purity of boating.

 

[PWhitcomb]

At the end of the day the APBA will or will not approve the race RIGHT !

So lets here about your team,boat,crew chief and drivers.

I 'am looking forward to the longer course, the short course is boring IMHO

You might want to reframe from responding until you have some actual knowledge of this event and are able to actually answer the questions that I have asked. For you to simplfy by stating APBA will or will not approve is reassuring, you obviously don't know APBA and again in way over your head.

So you have now dodge the questions which means you are not an APBA member, you have no clue what Safety you need to provide to run this event, and you have now just stated that the short course is boring so you will jeperdise the Safety of the drivers to make it exciting??? WTF..

Do you think that a longer course has not been proposed before? The reason a longer course has not been offered by a staff of officials that have been doing this race for 8 years and have been putting on races in this region for well over 14 years is because of Safety..... Now you come in with no clue and propose a 12 mile course with your broad experience of conducting races and think you know this better than people who actually do these type of events.

You want to know my team, my boat, my drivers, and my crew cheif. EVERY boat is my boat, EVERY driver is my driver, EVERY crew cheif is my crew cheif, and EVERY team that enters is my team. I have been a Cheif Referee in Region 12 for over 14 years and was the Cheif Referee for SCSC for many of these 14 plus years. I have officiated everything from club races, to US Series, to UIM Worlds. I think you better figure out how to put on the safest event instead of weather or not it's boring. Every Team that attends are friends or family of mine, so yes I have a vested interest on weather you even know what your doing.

Terry Toby runs a good rescue and we are friends, but ask Terry how many times he has provided rescue for this event or even an open course event on a 12 mile course with crappy radio communication, or better yet thse types of race boats.

You need to understand taht the only sucessful race is a safe race and you have not been able to provide any solid information that your proposed 12 mile course is safe.

Like I said, you and Scott are in way over your heads...

 

[SFV2RVR]

You might want to reframe from responding until you have some actual knowledge of this event and are able to actually answer the questions that I have asked. For you to simplfy by stating APBA will or will not approve is reassuring, you obviously don't know APBA and again in way over your head.

So you have now dodge the questions which means you are not an APBA member, you have no clue what Safety you need to provide to run this event, and you have now just stated that the short course is boring so you will jeperdise the Safety of the drivers to make it exciting??? WTF..

Do you think that a longer course has not been proposed before? The reason a longer course has not been offered by a staff of officials that have been doing this race for 8 years and have been putting on races in this region for well over 14 years is because of Safety..... Now you come in with no clue and propose a 12 mile course with your broad experience of conducting races and think you know this better than people who actually do these type of events.

You want to know my team, my boat, my drivers, and my crew cheif. EVERY boat is my boat, EVERY driver is my driver, EVERY crew cheif is my crew cheif, and EVERY team that enters is my team. I have been a Cheif Referee in Region 12 for over 14 years and was the Cheif Referee for SCSC for many of these 14 plus years. I have officiated everything from club races, to US Series, to UIM Worlds. I think you better figure out how to put on the safest event instead of weather or not it's boring. Every Team that attends are friends or family of mine, so yes I have a vested interest on weather you even know what your doing.

Terry Toby runs a good rescue and we are friends, but ask Terry how many times he has provided rescue for this event or even an open course event on a 12 mile course with crappy radio communication, or better yet thse types of race boats.

You need to understand taht the only sucessful race is a safe race and you have not been able to provide any solid information that your proposed 12 mile course is safe.

Like I said, you and Scott are in way over your heads...

Cheif Referee for over 14 years....so does that mean you overlook the scoring for these events also? If you do then let me be the first to tell you that your scoring sucks!:thumbsdown
What was done to steve and his team last year was pure bullshit. I was at the scoring section for the entire race, and when ross said he was gonna have his "scoring staff" go over the scoring sheets to make the race official, and comes back an hour later and said its official, it should be a done deal. Then come 6 months later he's talking about a co-championship because there was a scoring issue? Fucking lame!

 

[BigSteve]

You might want to reframe from responding until you have some actual knowledge of this event and are able to actually answer the questions that I have asked. For you to simplfy by stating APBA will or will not approve is reassuring, you obviously don't know APBA and again in way over your head.

So you have now dodge the questions which means you are not an APBA member, you have no clue what Safety you need to provide to run this event, and you have now just stated that the short course is boring so you will jeperdise the Safety of the drivers to make it exciting??? WTF..

Do you think that a longer course has not been proposed before? The reason a longer course has not been offered by a staff of officials that have been doing this race for 8 years and have been putting on races in this region for well over 14 years is because of Safety..... Now you come in with no clue and propose a 12 mile course with your broad experience of conducting races and think you know this better than people who actually do these type of events.

You want to know my team, my boat, my drivers, and my crew cheif. EVERY boat is my boat, EVERY driver is my driver, EVERY crew cheif is my crew cheif, and EVERY team that enters is my team. I have been a Cheif Referee in Region 12 for over 14 years and was the Cheif Referee for SCSC for many of these 14 plus years. I have officiated everything from club races, to US Series, to UIM Worlds. I think you better figure out how to put on the safest event instead of weather or not it's boring. Every Team that attends are friends or family of mine, so yes I have a vested interest on weather you even know what your doing.

Terry Toby runs a good rescue and we are friends, but ask Terry how many times he has provided rescue for this event or even an open course event on a 12 mile course with crappy radio communication, or better yet thse types of race boats.

You need to understand taht the only sucessful race is a safe race and you have not been able to provide any solid information that your proposed 12 mile course is safe.

Like I said, you and Scott are in way over your heads...

Thank You for your service !

I am sure you have the experience to have a well informed opinion

And I'm sure there are many consideration to be taken into account

for safety in general.

There are many hurdles in racing to overcome

and i see you come from a family that has been involved

My family has been involved in racing too.

They were part of the team that brought F-1, and the streets of Long Beach together.

I realize the hard work that goes into it

I do think you and I are on the same page, at the end of the day

Once again thank you for your service, you're the backbone of the sport.

 

[PWhitcomb]

Steve,
I think we are on the same page. My concern is directed at the Safety for all the drivers on a long course. Yes in the 7 hour we ran the long course, but that was way before the speeds we are going now and what we have learned over the years in providing Safety on the course. Look there were alot of thing I did before some time ago but that does not mean I would do them again today. The staff that has put this event on for the last 8 years has not approved a longer course for Safety reason even though many driver are in the same opinion as you and want a longer course. I find it hard to beleive that this year a couple gentleman think they can run this race with no experience and offer a 12 mile course and keep it safe. This isn't BS, these are the questions that need to be asked and the most important issue to address in running this event.

As for the gentlemans post on scoring, I was not at the event last year so I cannot comment on that issue. I can tell you I have proposed in the past, that each boat is responsable for their own scoring with some type of supervision of those scorers. This way any issues go back to the scorer that you provided.

I wish you all good luck and a safe event, but don't ever settle for just what APBA recomends. APBA does not have your back as the officials in R 12 do.

 

[swiftmike]

Hey Dave,

I have a lot of experience with race communications! I've been desert racing for the last 12 years and doing a lot of people coms as my father owns a telecommunications business. Please let me know if you need any help with 2 way radios or anything. We could possibly setup a repeater on a mountain top that would give you full coverage of the course....or anything else I could possibly help with.

Quote of the day "Any fool can criticize, complain, and condemn--and most do" - Dale Carnegie

Thanks
Mike

 

[RiverDave]

Is it possible to get a dollar amount for each class winner to see if its worth running this race! What about a roll call? hard to fill a 32 page program if we don't no who is racing or who is sponsoring the event, sponsors on poster look pretty thin (just sayin)

I have a personal thing today that I have to run to Parker for. But I will try to work on that for you later today.

Longer course that's smart! Hope you get secondary insurance Dave. There is no way you could get enough rescue boats on that long of a course.

Actually we can, and it's not nearly as difficult as you would think? Rescue boats every 1/2 mile (line of sight), with Terry's crew of 18 guys, plus the La Paz County Sheriff's boats, plus the La Paz County Dive boats, plus their divers..

I'm only making the point, because it's very tiring to hear "YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T!" It's already been done.. It's been done in the past, it will be done in the future. Like I said, this is not as complicated as people are making it out to be.

Hey Dave,

I have a lot of experience with race communications! I've been desert racing for the last 12 years and doing a lot of people coms as my father owns a telecommunications business. Please let me know if you need any help with 2 way radios or anything. We could possibly setup a repeater on a mountain top that would give you full coverage of the course....or anything else I could possibly help with.

Quote of the day "Any fool can criticize, complain, and condemn--and most do" - Dale Carnegie

Thanks
Mike

I appreciate the offer! PM me your #, and Scott and I might take you up on that. I already have the mountain location scouted, and it is accessible by truck.

RD

 

[138]

I have a personal thing today that I have to run to Parker for. But I will try to work on that for you later today.



Actually we can, and it's not nearly as difficult as you would think? Rescue boats every 1/2 mile (line of sight), with Terry's crew of 18 guys, plus the La Paz County Sheriff's boats, plus the La Paz County Dive boats, plus their divers..

I'm only making the point, because it's very tiring to hear "YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T!" It's already been done.. It's been done in the past, it will be done in the future. Like I said, this is not as complicated as people are making it out to be.


RD

Safety.....Hum what boat will you be driving Dave? The beach is a safe place to park your butt and bring in the money.

 

[Outdrive1]

Wow, I really think the distance is possible. We ran the ski marathons in Parker all the way to the police station, from there it's line of sight to the Pirates. Actually there are less places to launch and easier to do crowd control on that last stretch. I would not have pulled a skier that distance had I thought we were in jeopardy of being somewhere a rescue boat couldn't get to us.

 

[Outdrive1]

I understand the Enduro boats as a whole are going faster than boats with skiers with the exception of the Nordic and Todd. Yet I'd have to believe boats and skiers are at a bigger risk than a single person in a race boat.

 

[PWhitcomb]

I have a personal thing today that I have to run to Parker for. But I will try to work on that for you later today.



Actually we can, and it's not nearly as difficult as you would think? Rescue boats every 1/2 mile (line of sight), with Terry's crew of 18 guys, plus the La Paz County Sheriff's boats, plus the La Paz County Dive boats, plus their divers..

I'm only making the point, because it's very tiring to hear "YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T!" It's already been done.. It's been done in the past, it will be done in the future. Like I said, this is not as complicated as people are making it out to be.



I appreciate the offer! PM me your #, and Scott and I might take you up on that. I already have the mountain location scouted, and it is accessible by truck.

RD

This is my last post as you just put it out there that you are not prepared to Safely provide rescue for a 12 mile course. 1 boat every 1/2 mile and with 2 divers per rescue boat and you stated 18 rescue personal. Do the math you do not have enough to staff the resuce boats. I do not know what is more troublsome, the fact your not experienced enough for this event or the relaxed approach of it's not that difficult to do. I hope your ego does bite you on this for the drivers sake. BTW it's not that it can't be done, it's you do not have the experience in doing it right.

Good luck to you in this venture and will all pray you are able to run this safely.

 

[Outdrive1]

This is my last post as you just put it out there that you are not prepared to Safely provide rescue for a 12 mile course. 1 boat every 1/2 mile and with 2 divers per rescue boat and you stated 18 rescue personal. Do the math you do not have enough to staff the resuce boats. I do not know what is more troublsome, the fact your not experienced enough for this event or the relaxed approach of it's not that difficult to do. I hope your ego does bite you on this for the drivers sake. BTW it's not that it can't be done, it's you do not have the experience in doing it right.

Good luck to you in this venture and will all pray you are able to run this safely.

So how about offering your consultation or services to make it better?

 

[hallett21]

I think Dave said 18 rescue personnel PLUS the sherif boats plus their divers so that would be more than 18 personnel no?

 

[Bobby V]

I have a personal thing today that I have to run to Parker for. But I will try to work on that for you later today.



Actually we can, and it's not nearly as difficult as you would think? Rescue boats every 1/2 mile (line of sight), with Terry's crew of 18 guys, plus the La Paz County Sheriff's boats, plus the La Paz County Dive boats, plus their divers..

I'm only making the point, because it's very tiring to hear "YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T!" It's already been done.. It's been done in the past, it will be done in the future. Like I said, this is not as complicated as people are making it out to be.



I appreciate the offer! PM me your #, and Scott and I might take you up on that. I already have the mountain location scouted, and it is accessible by truck.

RD

This is my last post as you just put it out there that you are not prepared to Safely provide rescue for a 12 mile course. 1 boat every 1/2 mile and with 2 divers per rescue boat and you stated 18 rescue personal. Do the math you do not have enough to staff the resuce boats. I do not know what is more troublsome, the fact your not experienced enough for this event or the relaxed approach of it's not that difficult to do. I hope your ego does bite you on this for the drivers sake. BTW it's not that it can't be done, it's you do not have the experience in doing it right.

Good luck to you in this venture and will all pray you are able to run this safely.

18 rescue personal PLUS La Paz County.PLUS La Paz Sheriffs PLUS their divers. :rolleyes

 

[PWhitcomb]

18 rescue personal PLUS La Paz County.PLUS La Paz Sheriffs PLUS their divers. :rolleyes

You guys are making this too easy, I expected more but I am not surprised.

RD stated "a rescue boat every 1/2 mile, Toby has 18 rescue personal, and the La Paz county Sheriffs boats and divers" and you all said yes!!!!!!!!

So 1 rescue boat every 1/2 mile on a 12 mile course is 24 rescue boats (I call BS, does not have) 24 rescue boats with 2 divers per boat is 48 divers (I call BS again as RD said Toby only had 18 rescue personal) Oh? La Paz Sheriffs have 30 rescue personal they are supplying (BS) now let's add a driver to all 24 rescue boats (BS again) Too easy to read through RD Bullshit statement on Rescue, but you fell for it.

So let's give RD the benifit of the doubt. Let's position a rescue boat in the center of the course every 1/2 mile, still staff it with 2 divers on each boat and 1 driver. That still puts RD at having 12 rescue boats, 24 divers, and 12 drivers. (BS does not have) And the La Paz Sheriffs do not have the balance to make up what RD posted he had. He is not and will not be prepared for a 12 mile course. BTW Terry Toby only has 3 rescue boats which means alot of boats need to be barrowed and transformed into rescue boats to meet what RD posted. Food for thought!

 

[boat527]

Wouldnt a 12mi course only need enough safety personnel for 6mi ( distance between turn pins)

If that is so, your numbers are off..

Something more important,, your post from yesterday noon ish said , " this is my last post"..

Well, don't let the door hit you on the way out..

All the pot stirring is bs and un neccesary..use PM's instead, it would be more professional.

 

[IN AWE]

It would take 11 rescue boats on a 12 mile coarse @ a half mile each.

But, it would be wise to put a rescue at each corner for a minimum total of 13.

Sent from my Liberated Droid X.

 

[boat527]

It would take 11 rescue boats on a 12 mile coarse @ a half mile each.

But, it would be wise to put a rescue at each corner for a minimum total of 13.

Sent from my Liberated Droid X.

Thank you

 

[Riverbound]

You guys are making this too easy, I expected more but I am not surprised.

RD stated "a rescue boat every 1/2 mile, Toby has 18 rescue personal, and the La Paz county Sheriffs boats and divers" and you all said yes!!!!!!!!

So 1 rescue boat every 1/2 mile on a 12 mile course is 24 rescue boats (I call BS, does not have) 24 rescue boats with 2 divers per boat is 48 divers (I call BS again as RD said Toby only had 18 rescue personal) Oh? La Paz Sheriffs have 30 rescue personal they are supplying (BS) now let's add a driver to all 24 rescue boats (BS again) Too easy to read through RD Bullshit statement on Rescue, but you fell for it.

So let's give RD the benifit of the doubt. Let's position a rescue boat in the center of the course every 1/2 mile, still staff it with 2 divers on each boat and 1 driver. That still puts RD at having 12 rescue boats, 24 divers, and 12 drivers. (BS does not have) And the La Paz Sheriffs do not have the balance to make up what RD posted he had. He is not and will not be prepared for a 12 mile course. BTW Terry Toby only has 3 rescue boats which means alot of boats need to be barrowed and transformed into rescue boats to meet what RD posted. Food for thought!

I thought you said you were posting your last post?

Here's the reality of the situation. If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem. There's a select group of you guys that claim you care and its all about driver safety and whatever bill shit you spew. Yet you do NOTHING to help solve the problem. There are many of us that know what Ross has pulled over the last couple years. Yet you guys make him out to be some sort of hero. It's obvious there are people that are in support of Ross and want to "have his back" and you guys make your allegiance painfully clear. There are also those that support RD. at this point who gives a fuck? If you "racers" really gave a shit about the race and your sport, you would be actively involved in making it better not trying to tear it down every chance you get.

With your credentials, have you reached out to rd or Scott? And I'm not talking bitching on an online forum like a 2 year old. Man up. Get off your ass and do something or shut up and sit back. It really is pathetic to see how you "professionals" act. :thunbsdown

With the politics and egos involved in this small time sport I can't believe RD ever thought it was a good idea to even want to be involve in this. You guys go around message board to message board beating your chest yet do nothing to make your small time sport move forward.

 

[CampbellCarl]

Just a point of clarification............is a rescue boat also a tow boat? Are these terms being co-mingled?

Is RD saying a tow boat (for broken boats) every half mile and then in adition to the tow boats every half mile there are XXX rescue boats staffed with YYY rescue people i.e. divers and first aid responders?

Perhaps we're talking about two different boat types and purposes for being there.

 

[twocents]

Just one additional point of clarification -- the original Parker 9-Hour course was a 13-mile lap (6.5 miles upriver, and 6.5 miles down river). Depending upon where the turn buoys were located at each end of the course, it spanned 6.5 miles of the river give or take a couple of hundred feet. The course was surveyed (privately paid for by one racer) for accuracy back in the 1970s and submitted for APBA endurance record approvals to accommodate a specific racer interested in setting 'special event record recognition'.

 

[RiverDave]

You guys are making this too easy, I expected more but I am not surprised.

RD stated "a rescue boat every 1/2 mile, Toby has 18 rescue personal, and the La Paz county Sheriffs boats and divers" and you all said yes!!!!!!!!

So 1 rescue boat every 1/2 mile on a 12 mile course is 24 rescue boats (I call BS, does not have) 24 rescue boats with 2 divers per boat is 48 divers (I call BS again as RD said Toby only had 18 rescue personal) Oh? La Paz Sheriffs have 30 rescue personal they are supplying (BS) now let's add a driver to all 24 rescue boats (BS again) Too easy to read through RD Bullshit statement on Rescue, but you fell for it.

So let's give RD the benifit of the doubt. Let's position a rescue boat in the center of the course every 1/2 mile, still staff it with 2 divers on each boat and 1 driver. That still puts RD at having 12 rescue boats, 24 divers, and 12 drivers. (BS does not have) And the La Paz Sheriffs do not have the balance to make up what RD posted he had. He is not and will not be prepared for a 12 mile course. BTW Terry Toby only has 3 rescue boats which means alot of boats need to be barrowed and transformed into rescue boats to meet what RD posted. Food for thought!

Lol.. It is a rare talent to pull off what you just pulled off that quickly. You literally came in, proclaimed something simple to be impossible.. Backed it with credentials, and then displayed that you have exactly zero clue about the race itself, The Parker strip, or pretty much anything relevant to the conversation.

Bravo sir.. BRAVO!! .

For the life of me I don't understand why people keep doing there best to hate on this thing..

 

[RiverDave]

Safety.....Hum what boat will you be driving Dave? The beach is a safe place to park your butt and bring in the money.

Don't plan on running any boat Carl.. I will be a little busy helping out with the event.

It would be foolish to think that I would even have time to do it?

 

[PWhitcomb]

Lol.. It is a rare talent to pull off what you just pulled off that quickly. You literally came in, proclaimed something simple to be impossible.. Backed it with credentials, and then displayed that you have exactly zero clue about the race itself, The Parker strip, or pretty much anything relevant to the conversation.

Bravo sir.. BRAVO!! .

For the life of me I don't understand why people keep doing there best to hate on this thing..

Let me just say this. I not trying to hurt or tarnish this event in any way. I have not expressed my point possibly the right way. In my 14 years as being a referee the river (which I do know very well) has not been kind to me and several events. More so than any other race course I have officiated at, the river has taken more friends then one could imagine with me as the referee and I am telling you it is the hardest thing to go through. Thus with this being an open event and now maybe a 12 mile course scares me. I am the strongest advocate for driver safety at all my events and I can just hope that you and SS make this your top priorty.

Be smart, be safe....

 

[Outdrive1]

Let me just say this. I not trying to hurt or tarnish this event in any way. I have not expressed my point possibly the right way. In my 14 years as being a referee the river (which I do know very well) has not been kind to me and several events. More so than any other race course I have officiated at, the river has taken more friends then one could imagine with me as the referee and I am telling you it is the hardest thing to go through. Thus with this being an open event and now maybe a 12 mile course scares me. I am the strongest advocate for driver safety at all my events and I can just hope that you and SS make this your top priorty.

Be smart, be safe....

You really should offer to consult or help at this point.

 

[420HOA]

I thought you said you were posting your last post?

Here's the reality of the situation. If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem. There's a select group of you guys that claim you care and its all about driver safety and whatever bill shit you spew. Yet you do NOTHING to help solve the problem. There are many of us that know what Ross has pulled over the last couple years. Yet you guys make him out to be some sort of hero. It's obvious there are people that are in support of Ross and want to "have his back" and you guys make your allegiance painfully clear. There are also those that support RD. at this point who gives a fuck? If you "racers" really gave a shit about the race and your sport, you would be actively involved in making it better not trying to tear it down every chance you get.

With your credentials, have you reached out to rd or Scott? And I'm not talking bitching on an online forum like a 2 year old. Man up. Get off your ass and do something or shut up and sit back. It really is pathetic to see how you "professionals" act. :thunbsdown

With the politics and egos involved in this small time sport I can't believe RD ever thought it was a good idea to even want to be involve in this. You guys go around message board to message board beating your chest yet do nothing to make your small time sport move forward.

Well said Billdoe :thumbup:

 

[138]

Don't plan on running any boat Carl.. I will be a little busy helping out with the event.

It would be foolish to think that I would even have time to do it?

..I do not have a dog in this fight but I have never once raced or watch you in a race boat in a race. The longer you make the race the flatter the water will get, the higher the speeds. I love fast water and Parker but that extra distance with how fast the new boats can go in nasty water will make for a deadly combo in flat water. Better have enough people that know how to assist drivers when something goes wrong because that little extra distance will bring all the boats speeds up more than you know.

 

[RiverDave]

..I do not have a dog in this fight but I have never once raced or watch you in a race boat in a race. The longer you make the race the flatter the water will get, the higher the speeds. I love fast water and Parker but that extra distance with how fast the new boats can go in nasty water will make for a deadly combo in flat water. Better have enough people that know how to assist drivers when something goes wrong because that little extra distance will bring all the boats speeds up more than you know.

Yes Carl I am well aware.. and no I have not raced a boat.

I also don't know shit about computers..
Yet somehow someway this whole message board thing seems to be working out. How is that possible?

You enlist or hire the help of the experts in the fields that you are addressing, and let them do their job to their potential.

RD

 

[138]

I really do hope that you have the experts you need to not only ensure the safely off all participants and spectators, but also for yourself as this will be a high profile event and would not want anything to ruin all that you have worked hard for in creating riverdavesplace for all of us boaters. Safety and liability are not to be taken lightly. We all enjoy and want to continue racing in Parker for years to come. Just trying to look out for the future of racing as well as making sure your ass is covered. I might come off as a jerk but I really do care about what happens to people, you included.

 

[throttle]

Date?

 

[420HOA]

Dave, did you get the CG permit ? :twoweeks

 

[RiverDave]

Dave, did you get the CG permit ? :twoweeks

The wheels turn slow in the system of government.. The answer to the question is everything has been submitted, and we are just waiting to hear back.

RD

 

[420HOA]

:deadhorse: :twoweeks :fsakes

 

[Moneypit]

:deadhorse: :twoweeks :fsakes

Two weeks to what?? Isn't this race scheduled for sometime in October?? Is the two weeks a CG deadline??
I do agree with some posters, that rather than come on here and rant about why it can't be done, do something to help!!! The "longer" course only amounts to an extra mile one way, meaning that instead of a 5 mile up river run, it becomes a 6 mile up river run, which computes to a 2 mile longer course totaling a 12 mile lap... I really have a hard time seeing how that extra mile becomes such a "safety" issue???... I've been to the recent past "Enduros", (not from decades ago), and have never seen any La Paz LE units on the water. Dave has arranged to have them out there, which IMO, is a step in the right direction for additional safety, as well as getting the event "closer to home" for the residents of Parker and surrounding communities... Parker was built by boaters, doing what boaters do,(spend money), and the interactions between the "Hotrod boats" and the local LE hasn't always been in a positive light in recent years... Maybe THIS interaction will set things in a positive direction concerning recreational Hotrod boats in the future... This is still an APBA Region 12 event, and it would seem to me the only thing that has changed is the "promotion" of the event... If SCSC/APBA members and officials are so worried about how things are being done please step up and assist in their area of expertise... Scoring comes to mind.... Dave has busted his ass to make this race a success. The politics alone has been an enormous hurdle to overcome, and for what?? Money? Fame???... What??? As I heard it, the city of PARKER, and the BLUEWATER, actually ASK him to do it because they were both "disappointed" in the way the last two were handled... Once Dave began to get his feet wet he realized he needed experienced help in the "race" end of the deal, so he got Scott to oversee that end.... No single person could ever do what needs to be done to make this happen... It has taken, and will take again, a select team of volunteers to assist those "in charge" of making this happen... AND no, I'm not racing, or fielding a team to race, nor have I ever raced in this event... I have been an APBA member heavily involved in circle racing since 1990, (PS89), and I too have lost friends to this dangerous sport. I hate to think I might lose friends because of petty bickering, name calling, and general hate and discontent, when the big picture is out there for all to see... The future of this race is in jeopardy, big time...
So, if you have any POSITIVE ideas please contact Dave or Scott through PMs or the telephone.. No one gains anything by coming to a public forum and stirring the shit up with continued NEGATIVE comments and reasons why "it can't be done"....
Ray
PS there was a comment about "Safety boats" vs "Tow boats".... Both are necessary, and if needed, I'll bring my old jetboat as a volunteer "tow boat" again.... (Victoria where are you???)

 

[twocents]

I guess I'm still confused regarding the race course. The original Parker 9-Hour course was a 13-mile lap (6.5 miles from buoy to buoy). The more recent Enduro 300 course has been a 6-mile lap (3 miles from buoy to buoy, hence the 50 laps for 300 miles). How long is the proposed course for the 2013 event?

 

[N2Racing]

Two weeks to what?? Isn't this race scheduled for sometime in October?? Is the two weeks a CG deadline??
I do agree with some posters, that rather than come on here and rant about why it can't be done, do something to help!!! The "longer" course only amounts to an extra mile one way, meaning that instead of a 5 mile up river run, it becomes a 6 mile up river run, which computes to a 2 mile longer course totaling a 12 mile lap... I really have a hard time seeing how that extra mile becomes such a "safety" issue???... I've been to the recent past "Enduros", (not from decades ago), and have never seen any La Paz LE units on the water. Dave has arranged to have them out there, which IMO, is a step in the right direction for additional safety, as well as getting the event "closer to home" for the residents of Parker and surrounding communities... Parker was built by boaters, doing what boaters do,(spend money), and the interactions between the "Hotrod boats" and the local LE hasn't always been in a positive light in recent years... Maybe THIS interaction will set things in a positive direction concerning recreational Hotrod boats in the future... This is still an APBA Region 12 event, and it would seem to me the only thing that has changed is the "promotion" of the event... If SCSC/APBA members and officials are so worried about how things are being done please step up and assist in their area of expertise... Scoring comes to mind.... Dave has busted his ass to make this race a success. The politics alone has been an enormous hurdle to overcome, and for what?? Money? Fame???... What??? As I heard it, the city of PARKER, and the BLUEWATER, actually ASK him to do it because they were both "disappointed" in the way the last two were handled... Once Dave began to get his feet wet he realized he needed experienced help in the "race" end of the deal, so he got Scott to oversee that end.... No single person could ever do what needs to be done to make this happen... It has taken, and will take again, a select team of volunteers to assist those "in charge" of making this happen... AND no, I'm not racing, or fielding a team to race, nor have I ever raced in this event... I have been an APBA member heavily involved in circle racing since 1990, (PS89), and I too have lost friends to this dangerous sport. I hate to think I might lose friends because of petty bickering, name calling, and general hate and discontent, when the big picture is out there for all to see... The future of this race is in jeopardy, big time...
So, if you have any POSITIVE ideas please contact Dave or Scott through PMs or the telephone.. No one gains anything by coming to a public forum and stirring the shit up with continued NEGATIVE comments and reasons why "it can't be done"....
Ray
PS there was a comment about "Safety boats" vs "Tow boats".... Both are necessary, and if needed, I'll bring my old jetboat as a volunteer "tow boat" again.... (Victoria where are you???)

So why did you post this then??

 

[RiverDave]

I guess I'm still confused regarding the race course. The original Parker 9-Hour course was a 13-mile lap (6.5 miles from buoy to buoy). The more recent Enduro 300 course has been a 6-mile lap (3 miles from buoy to buoy, hence the 50 laps for 300 miles). How long is the proposed course for the 2013 event?

12 mile lap, 6 miles up and back.. From Blue Water to south end of La Paz and back.

RD

 

[twocents]

Okay Dave, thanks for the course clarification. It's twice as long as the previous Enduro 300 course and almost the same distance (less than a half mile from turn buoy to turn buoy) from the original Parker 9-Hour course.

 

[Moneypit]

So why did you post this then??

Do you see my post as negative?? I tried very hard to be positive.... Maybe I fell short of my goal, but if you're truly "N2Racing" you need to be supportive of Dave's efforts to keep this race alive... I am...
Ray

 

[Riverbound]

Do you see my post as negative?? I tried very hard to be positive.... Maybe I fell short of my goal, but if you're truly "N2Racing" you need to be supportive of Dave's efforts to keep this race alive... I am...
Ray

Ray. I thought your post was very well written and was constructive not destructive like most of the people that have posted in here.

 

[RiverDave]

:deadhorse: :twoweeks :fsakes

The coast guard is processing the permit now, so it should be done in the next couple of days.

RD