Pool heaters?

[satellitemike]

Are they all basically the same? Our current one, 22 years old, has shit the bed.
Any inmates in the business in SW Riverside country?

 

[Melloyellovector]

we typically do pentair equipment, but can do all
where at in riverside, and how soon you need done? One of my guys can do on the side

 

[Pivot]

Im not sure how they have changed in 20 years. But the pentair mellowyellow installed on our pool is crazy efficient and heats quick. Spa goes from 60 to 90 in no time

 

[SoCalDave]

Im not sure how they have changed in 20 years. But the pentair mellowyellow installed on our pool is crazy efficient and heats quick. Spa goes from 60 to 90 in no time

Another vote for Pentair equipment.

 

[Melloyellovector]

A 20 year old heater was maybe 70% efficient when new at best, over 20 years it may have been 50% at best before it died.
New heater is around 84% efficient.

 

[GRADS]

I was in the same boat, I had a Hayward heater that was 23 years old and it finally died. I replaced it with a new Pentair heater. Now we use the hot tub twice as much as before and the gas bill is half of what it was. Much, much more efficient.

 

[boatpi]

I have had 2 of the pentair 400k all worked
Great fast heat up.

 

[satellitemike]

we typically do pentair equipment, but can do all
where at in riverside, and how soon you need done? One of my guys can do on the side

Murrieta, 15 and Clinton Keith.
No rush but if they want the work I'm open as soon as they are. Ball park $$$?

 

[Riley1]

Something must be wrong with my 5 yr old pentair since everyone is talking about speed and efficiency with theirs. . Just took an hour to go from 53° to 83°. Still waiting to go in. We’ve calculated that it costs us $20-25 per night. Usually 4 hours or so.

 

[satellitemike]

Something isn't right!

 

[GRADS]

Something must be wrong with my 5 yr old pentair since everyone is talking about speed and efficiency with theirs. . Just took an hour to go from 53° to 83°. Still waiting to go in. We’ve calculated that it costs us $20-25 per night. Usually 4 hours or so.

Our spa is 6.5' in diameter and approximately 3.5' deep. With the new heater we can heat it from 50° to 100° in about 50-60 minutes. We figure it costs about $5-7 or so to sit in it.

 

[charred1]

Most the guys I know that have replaced their pool heaters in the last couple years have all gone with Raypak.

 

[satellitemike]

Most the guys I know that have replaced their pool heaters in the last couple years have all gone with Raypak.

I've never heard of that make, why are they using them?

 

[caribbean20]

We replaced our 20 something year old swimming pool heater with a Rheem unit (same as Raypak, I think) a few years ago. It heats our small 10k gallon pool very fast.

Only issue we had was intermittent failure of the ignition module to light the flame two summers ago. I beat on the internals with a rubber mallet and back on it came. No lip from that unit last summer, I think it got religion.

 

[stephenkatsea]

We have a Pentair electric pool heater. We use it only for our spa. Found that floating a cover on the spa speeds up and retains the heat when the spa is not is use. The 8’ dia plastic over came from Amazon. It‘s basically heavy duty bubble wrap. Heater works well and the bubble wrap really helps. Pentair pool heater was here when we bought our home in 2013. Realize it could take a dump tomorrow. Over T’giving our visiting NYC SIL thought it wasn’t quite warm enough for him. So he cranked the analog knob up, without me knowing it. Didn’t take long for those of us in the spa to start saying WTF? This is getting Hot! Daughter and grandson even dove into the very cold, non heated, big pool (15 x 30). When I put a manual thermo in the spa, temp was 110 and climbing! Crazy hot. So, we all got out. Thought the pool heater thermo had messed up. It was then the SIL spoke up and said he’d “dialed up“ the temp (without knowing WTF he was doing). About 102 for the spa seems good for us, winter or summer.

 

[Mr. C]

Im not sure how they have changed in 20 years. But the pentair mellowyellow installed on our pool is crazy efficient and heats quick. Spa goes from 60 to 90 in no time

We went from a 22 yr old pentair 400
To This about 2-3 years ago.
So much more efficient and heats ours up very quick.

 

[Pivot]

I've never heard of that make, why are they using them?

Been around a very long time. We install these in commercial hvac and plumbing systems.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Raypak has been around for ever. For residential and commercial.
on a heater only install, theyre all pretty similar. pentair and starite are identical same manufacture just different cabinets, thye have a spiral type exchanger makes them more efficient. Hayward and Laare now have similar option, also helps minimize footprint

as far as heating, on a 7ft spa should avg 1 deg per minute. So from 53 deg to 100 should be 47 mins give or take
air and ground temps play a small role in this.
also heat mode - pump speed should be 2600rpm range or lower. The slower the water gets thru exchanger the higher the heat rise
if spa mode is set at 3450 rpm it will actually take longer, to fast thru exchanger plus if thru jets aerating water with cold air temps will lower the avg heat rise.

Price avg 3600-4000 depending on what’s needed for install

 

[Hardly Satisfied]

we typically do pentair equipment, but can do all
where at in riverside, and how soon you need done? One of my guys can do on the side

How much for a Pentair salt cell ?

 

[dirtslinger2]

Raypak has been around for ever. For residential and commercial.
on a heater only install, theyre all pretty similar. pentair and starite are identical same manufacture just different cabinets, thye have a spiral type exchanger makes them more efficient. Hayward and Laare now have similar option, also helps minimize footprint

as far as heating, on a 7ft spa should avg 1 deg per minute. So from 53 deg to 100 should be 47 mins give or take
air and ground temps play a small role in this.
also heat mode - pump speed should be 2600rpm range or lower. The slower the water gets thru exchanger the higher the heat rise
if spa mode is set at 3450 rpm it will actually take longer, to fast thru exchanger plus if thru jets aerating water with cold air temps will lower the avg heat rise.

Price avg 3600-4000 depending on what’s needed for install

OK, I'm ready for your wizardary math.

We're going to heat our new pool for the first time for a New Years Party. 17K Gallons, 400BTU Pentair Natural Gas heater, and current water temp is 50 degrees.

How long do you think it's going to take to get the pool up to around 80 degrees?

 

[Melloyellovector]

OK, I'm ready for your wizardary math.

We're going to heat our new pool for the first time for a New Years Party. 17K Gallons, 400BTU Pentair Natural Gas heater, and current water temp is 50 degrees.

How long do you think it's going to take to get the pool up to around 80 degrees?

General rule on pools is 1 deg per hour ( smaller pool may get 1 deg per 35-45 mins )
so in theory would take 30 hours of heating, reality on a 17k gal pool likely 2 days running 12 hours per day should get ya there
if natural gas costs about 8.00 per hour for 400k btu x 30 = cost would be roughly 240 to get it there, plus how ever many days your trying to maintain that temp.
propane costs and certain nat gas area costs can differ drastically higher

 

[Melloyellovector]

How much for a Pentair salt cell ?

1000-1200
#520555 40k gal cell
you can find online for less then I can purchase from distributor

 

[dirtslinger2]

General rule on pools is 1 deg per hour ( smaller pool may get 1 deg per 35-45 mins )
so in theory would take 30 hours of heating, reality on a 17k gal pool likely 2 days running 12 hours per day should get ya there
if natural gas costs about 8.00 per hour for 400k btu x 30 = cost would be roughly 240 to get it there, plus how ever many days your trying to maintain that temp.
propane costs and certain nat gas area costs can differ drastically higher

Awesome, so since this is new experience for me, my pool currently runs 8hrs a day, 8am-4pm.

Should I switch up my filter time, so it runs for 12 or more?, and only heat during those hours? You think I should run it at night, or during the day, I don't want to loose all my heat that I put into it overnight??

I'm not sure what our NG cost is, but you're probably close. I'm not on Propane. My rough guess was get it hot by NYE, enjoy it for the night, turn it off at midnight, and hope it didn't cost more than like $600 for the party.

 

[satellitemike]

Awesome, so since this is new experience for me, my pool currently runs 8hrs a day, 8am-4pm.

Should I switch up my filter time, so it runs for 12 or more?, and only heat during those hours? You think I should run it at night, or during the day, I don't want to loose all my heat that I put into it overnight??

I'm not sure what our NG cost is, but you're probably close. I'm not on Propane. My rough guess was get it hot by NYE, enjoy it for the night, turn it off at midnight, and hope it didn't cost more than like $600 for the party.

You should probably look into a pool cover and or those heat absorbing things you put in the pool if you have good sunlight hitting it.

 

[dirtslinger2]

You should probably look into a pool cover and or those heat absorbing things you put in the pool if you have good sunlight hitting it.

I've got great sunlight, but I really don't want to deal with trying to fold up and store a cover, or like 30 of those rings.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Awesome, so since this is new experience for me, my pool currently runs 8hrs a day, 8am-4pm.

Should I switch up my filter time, so it runs for 12 or more?, and only heat during those hours? You think I should run it at night, or during the day, I don't want to loose all my heat that I put into it overnight??

I'm not sure what our NG cost is, but you're probably close. I'm not on Propane. My rough guess was get it hot by NYE, enjoy it for the night, turn it off at midnight, and hope it didn't cost more than like $600 for the party.

Natural Chemistry makes a liquid you pour in that’s called cover free. It’s a liquid solar blanket. Will help retain heat. Turn heater on 3 days before add liquid cover and retain good part of the heat.

 

[dirtslinger2]

Natural Chemistry makes a liquid you pour in that’s called cover free. It’s a liquid solar blanket. Will help retain heat. Turn heater on 3 days before add liquid cover and retain good part of the heat.

WhATTT???? I gotta look this up.

 

[Hardly Satisfied]

1000-1200
#520555 40k gal cell
you can find online for less then I can purchase from distributor

Thanks . Wow they are pretty pricey these days..

 

[Melloyellovector]

Thanks . Wow they are pretty pricey these days..

So is a cheeseburger, lol

 

[Joker]

How much for a Pentair salt cell ?

How much for a Pentair salt cell ?

Brand new. $800.00

 

[dirtslinger2]

General rule on pools is 1 deg per hour ( smaller pool may get 1 deg per 35-45 mins )
so in theory would take 30 hours of heating, reality on a 17k gal pool likely 2 days running 12 hours per day should get ya there
if natural gas costs about 8.00 per hour for 400k btu x 30 = cost would be roughly 240 to get it there, plus how ever many days your trying to maintain that temp.
propane costs and certain nat gas area costs can differ drastically higher

I wanted to update this. You were ridiculously close to this number.

I ended up heating the pool starting on the 30th, heated it for 12 hours, then on the 31st started again. We got the pool up to about 84 before I called it quits.
Over the week of Xmas and new years, we ran the spa 3 times, heated the pool for about 24hrs total, and ran the fire pit for several days straight.
We were dreading to see our gas bill, and holy hell, it was $240 total, so you were super close, and now we aren't afraid to run the spa and firepit whenever we want.

 

[scottchbrite]

There are a few calculators out there on the Trouble Free Pools forum. They work pretty well. I’m on propane and it currently costs me about $15 an hour of heater run time.
I finally finished my solar pool heater ground mount array. Im a few panels short though. I’m curious how well it will work this spring/fall. I turned it on the other day, 71* and sunny, and it raised the pool 1 degree in about 4 hours.

 

[Tamalewagon]

There are a few calculators out there on the Trouble Free Pools forum. They work pretty well. I’m on propane and it currently costs me about $15 an hour of heater run time.
I finally finished my solar pool heater ground mount array. I need a few panels short though. I’m curious how well it will work this spring/fall. I turned it on the other day, 71* and sunny, and it raised the pool 1 degree in about 4 hours.

The solar heaters don't work very well during the winter but in summer months, it works very well. Our pool gets up in the 90's on the coast.

 

[scottchbrite]

The solar heaters don't work very well during the winter but in summer months, it works very well. Our pool gets up in the 90's on the coast.

Thats what I’ve been told. I literally just finished it and was checking it for leaks, so I let it run to see what it would do out if curiosity. We are in the foothills above Murrieta and get the costal influence. Ours gets to aprox 80-82 for a brief time in the summer. We’re hoping to expand the swimming season now.

 

[Caydens Cat]

Thats what I’ve been told. I literally just finished it and was checking it for leaks, so I let it run to see what it would do out if curiosity. We are in the foothills above Murrieta and get the costal influence. Ours gets to aprox 80-82 for a brief time in the summer. We’re hoping to expand the swimming season now.

Summer in Murrieta with pool solar you’ll want to turn it off it’ll get so warm! I’m a bit in land SD and we’ll run 90 degrees with it on. like a huge spa

 

[Spitfire]

Anyone using a heat pump style heater? I wouldn’t think if you had a spa that would be the way to go if you have a spa. I just have a 20k gal pool, no spa. I heard They are great to extend the season and efficient and low cost?

 

[scottchbrite]

Summer in Murrieta with pool solar you’ll want to turn it off it’ll get so warm! I’m a bit in land SD and we’ll run 90 degrees with it on. like a huge spa

We run usually 10-15* cooler than the city area of Murrieta. My neighbor can see the ocean from his house on a clear day. We really only have 6-8 weeks of true, Inland Empire summer weather it seems.

@dirtslinger2 - did you try any of that liquid pool cover yet? I think that would help with keeping any heating gains.

 

[boatpi]

When I had my house in Havasu, I had a pool that was about 18 feet wide by 50 feet long and I got one of the big reels with the solar pool cover nothing more than a bunch of heavy duty plastic with bubbles in it.

Wow, did it work? I would reel it out and the sun hits it so as an example, it would extend my very comfortable warm pool season by one month early and one month late from the morning until 4 PM. It would heat the water approximately 6 to 7° at the sun was out. And it was free.

 

[dirtslinger2]

We run usually 10-15* cooler than the city area of Murrieta. My neighbor can see the ocean from his house on a clear day. We really only have 6-8 weeks of true, Inland Empire summer weather it seems.

@dirtslinger2 - did you try any of that liquid pool cover yet? I think that would help with keeping any heating gains.

I didn't, I just chanced it

 

[Parker Dreamin]

What about the Heat Pump / Chiller options ? We are in Indio and the pool gets too hot in the summer. Looking for feedback and what the best model is. We have a pool and spa - Pool is about 13K gallons.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Anyone using a heat pump style heater? I wouldn’t think if you had a spa that would be the way to go if you have a spa. I just have a 20k gal pool, no spa. I heard They are great to extend the season and efficient and low cost?

What about the Heat Pump / Chiller options ? We are in Indio and the pool gets too hot in the summer. Looking for feedback and what the best model is. We have a pool and spa - Pool is about 13K gallons.

Heat pump/chillers yes they work
not great for heating a spa, they are great for chilling a spa
making water comfortable for swimming in the 80s in ca is pretty much do able nearly year round
summer months they will heat a spa but take long time

cost wise there is nothing low about them. High equipment cost, high install cost, high operating cost. Unless you have elec Solar with credits waiting to be used up. they draw 40-50 amps same as AC, plus pump that’s drawing 12-20 amps so minimum your using mid 50-70 amps while using. In ca that’s gonna add up quick

Note: if trying to add to existing pool equipment, you will need all new power to supply heat pump chiller. avg pool systems / panels only have 40-50 amps supplying pumps, lights, outlets etc… meaning you need an addl 50 amps just for heat pump chiller with 100 amp supply at main to pool
if house panel isn’t 200+ amps you have another added cost to upgrade house panel.

 

[Spitfire]

Heat pump/chillers yes they work
not great for heating a spa, they are great for chilling a spa
making water comfortable for swimming in the 80s in ca is pretty much do able nearly year round
summer months they will heat a spa but take long time

cost wise there is nothing low about them. High equipment cost, high install cost, high operating cost. Unless you have elec Solar with credits waiting to be used up. they draw 40-50 amps same as AC, plus pump that’s drawing 12-20 amps so minimum your using mid 50-70 amps while using. In ca that’s gonna add up quick

Note: if trying to add to existing pool equipment, you will need all new power to supply heat pump chiller. avg pool systems / panels only have 40-50 amps supplying pumps, lights, outlets etc… meaning you need an addl 50 amps just for heat pump chiller with 100 amp supply at main to pool
if house panel isn’t 200+ amps you have another added cost to upgrade house panel.

Thank you for the deeper insight. Cooling I certainly don’t want in my application. Looks like the sun will continue to be my heater!

 

[Orange Juice]

Thank you for the deeper insight. Cooling I certainly don’t want in my application. Looks like the sun will continue to be my heater!

Solar water heater might work in Arizona. Might be able to put together a simple DIY system.

Amazon.com

 

[86403]

Raypak has been around for ever. For residential and commercial.
on a heater only install, theyre all pretty similar. pentair and starite are identical same manufacture just different cabinets, thye have a spiral type exchanger makes them more efficient. Hayward and Laare now have similar option, also helps minimize footprint

as far as heating, on a 7ft spa should avg 1 deg per minute. So from 53 deg to 100 should be 47 mins give or take
air and ground temps play a small role in this.
also heat mode - pump speed should be 2600rpm range or lower. The slower the water gets thru exchanger the higher the heat rise
if spa mode is set at 3450 rpm it will actually take longer, to fast thru exchanger plus if thru jets aerating water with cold air temps will lower the avg heat rise.

Price avg 3600-4000 depending on what’s needed for install

What's the lifespan for a 400k Pentair heater (coastal SD)? Thx

 

[Melloyellovector]

What's the lifespan for a 400k Pentair heater (coastal SD)? Thx

Cabinets on pentair is plastic, so coastal has zero concern.
id suggest doing the HD version for cupro nickel exchanger.
biggest concern on heaters is water chemistry of pool/spa

warranty is 1 year single pc of equipment, 3 years of you have 3 pentair equipment installed.
you should get 10 years range before needing parts, thermistor, pressure switch, bypass etc

 

[86403]

Mine is 14 years old and started having issues. Sounds like the thermal regulator has gone bad. Seems like an easy fix. Just wondering at what point it might need to be replaced. Thanks.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Mine is 14 years old and started having issues. Sounds like the thermal regulator has gone bad. Seems like an easy fix. Just wondering at what point it might need to be replaced. Thanks.

When repairs get close to half the cost to replace, then it’s no longer worth it.
thermal regulator cheap easy fix, consumable
basically first to go and usually from chems in pool water. Ocean air can’t even get to that, it’s literally inside the header