ww3

[monkeyswrench]

The CIA...One of the few jobs that you aren't supposed to tell people you are applying to, or work there. Really, can't think of another legal job like it

 

[angiebaby]

You'll never find evidence when it comes to the CIA.

So, no evidence. Just a meme. Gotcha I'm certainly convinced.

"Allegations made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Carry on.

 

[4Waters]

So, no evidence. Just a meme. Gotcha I'm certainly convinced.

"Allegations made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Carry on.

I was able to confirm the relationship but not CIA involvement

 

[rmarion]

All the evidence of every major incident gets pushed under the rug. I had pictures and video of the missile hitting the Pentagon years ago and that has almost all disappeared in the internet. Those pics and video were before it became so easy to photoshop or as AI to create something.

Missile vids still available.... two new vids from different angles have emerged....

most people, Blue pill vs Red pill

 

[hallett21]

Missile vids still available.... two new vids from different angles have emerged....

most people, Blue pill vs Red pill

Link? I’d love to see them.

 

[rmarion]

Link? I’d love to see them.

 

[hallett21]

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Haven’t watched these yet but to clarify I think the plane hitting the pentagon by some guys who learned how to fly Cessnas is Bullshit.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Haven’t watched these yet but to clarify I think the plane hitting the pentagon by some guys who learned how to fly Cessnas is Bullshit.

Missiles or planes, the official story is a bit off camber. I think they said it was a spiral decent from altitude, to cruise in 4ft off the deck...by guys that had zero actual commercial flight time, and limited simulator time.

 

[4Waters]

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I always thought the explosion at the pentagon was way smaller than at world trade, pentagon always seemed off to me compared to the other 2.

 

[coolchange]

Missiles or planes, the official story is a bit off camber. I think they said it was a spiral decent from altitude, to cruise in 4ft off the deck...by guys that had zero actual commercial flight time, and limited simulator time.

Spiral decent from altitude landing is a common and difficult landing that can be seen practiced at many airbases

 

[monkeyswrench]

Spiral decent from altitude landing is a common and difficult landing that can be seen practiced at many airbases

True, but how many goat herders are practicing that maneuver with a commercial airliner? There are many talented pilots, no doubt, but I wouldn't think they're fresh out of flight school.

 

[sonicss31]

 

[rrrr]

Jet fuel in a ball of fire can't melt steal I beams. As much as you (and I) would not like to believe it do some research and you will be surprised what you will find

Good one for you is a video of the plane nose coming through the building. = it could never happen! A goose direct hit will crush the nose.

Jet fuel burns at 4,400°F. Steel melts at 2,700°F. But that's immaterial. The steel didn't melt. Structural steel loses its load bearing capacity at 1,000°F. It becomes plastic and deforms, then the structure fails. ASTM E119 details the conditions under which this occurs.

Steel columns and beams in multistory buildings are protected by spray on fire resistant coating material. It is applied wet by pressure guns to a thickness of 2-3", and prevents building fire heat from compromising the steel's modulus of elasticity.

The WTC North and South towers, along with WTC 7, collapsed for a very simple reason. The violence of the aircraft impacts stripped the towers' fireproofing protection, and the heat from combustion of flammable materials like furniture, paper, and carpets, along with the thousands of gallons of flaming jet fuel, destroyed the structural integrity of the buildings. WTC 7 failed similarly, its fireproofing and structure compromised by the hundreds of tons of debris that hit the structure when the towers collapsed.

As for airliner construction, yeah, the nose isn't robust. It's fiberglass, because the radar antenna is underneath it. But the fuselage is a massive structure with a very large strength to weight ratio. The kinetic energy of those Boeing 767s traveling at 500+ MPH easily overcame the steel perimeter construction of the towers. The steel was designed for vertical loads, not point impacts containing millions of megajoules.

This chain of events was so simple and obvious that I'm stating these facts without having spent five minutes researching the exact sequences of destruction. I didn't need to, anyone with a basic grasp of building construction and a beginner's background in structural steel elements would instinctively understand this.

But believe what you want to. The reality is easily explainable, the facts and calculations are indisputable.

 

[4Waters]

Jet fuel burns at 4,400°F. Steel melts at 2,700°F. But that's immaterial. The steel didn't melt. Structural steel loses its load bearing capacity at 1,000°F. It becomes plastic and deforms, then the structure fails. ASTM E119 details the conditions under which this occurs.

Steel columns and beams in multistory buildings are protected by spray on fire resistant coating material. It is applied wet by pressure guns to a thickness of 2-3", and prevents building fire heat from compromising the steel's modulus of elasticity.

The WTC North and South towers, along with WTC 7, collapsed for a very simple reason. The violence of the aircraft impacts stripped the towers' fireproofing protection, and the heat from combustion of flammable materials like furniture, paper, and carpets, along with the thousands of gallons of flaming jet fuel, destroyed the structural integrity of the buildings. WTC 7 failed similarly, its fireproofing and structure compromised by the hundreds of tons of debris that hit the structure when the towers collapsed.

As for airliner construction, yeah, the nose isn't robust. It's fiberglass, because the radar antenna is underneath it. But the fuselage is a massive structure with a very large strength to weight ratio. The kinetic energy of those Boeing 767s traveling at 500+ MPH easily overcame the steel perimeter construction of the towers. The steel was designed for vertical loads, not point impacts containing millions of megajoules.

This chain of events was so simple and obvious that I'm stating these facts without having spent five minutes researching the exact sequences of destruction. I didn't need to, anyone with a basic grasp of building construction and a beginner's background in structural steel elements would instinctively understand this.

But believe what you want to. The reality is easily explainable, the facts and calculations are indisputable.

The towers moved a lot, I did a quick search but didn't find out how far the towers swayed from impact. Here is a video at 8x speed showing the tower swaying. Speed the video up x2 and you can really see the swaying

 

[hallett21]

Jet fuel burns at 4,400°F. Steel melts at 2,700°F. But that's immaterial. The steel didn't melt. Structural steel loses its load bearing capacity at 1,000°F. It becomes plastic and deforms, then the structure fails. ASTM E119 details the conditions under which this occurs.

Steel columns and beams in multistory buildings are protected by spray on fire resistant coating material. It is applied wet by pressure guns to a thickness of 2-3", and prevents building fire heat from compromising the steel's modulus of elasticity.

The WTC North and South towers, along with WTC 7, collapsed for a very simple reason. The violence of the aircraft impacts stripped the towers' fireproofing protection, and the heat from combustion of flammable materials like furniture, paper, and carpets, along with the thousands of gallons of flaming jet fuel, destroyed the structural integrity of the buildings. WTC 7 failed similarly, its fireproofing and structure compromised by the hundreds of tons of debris that hit the structure when the towers collapsed.

As for airliner construction, yeah, the nose isn't robust. It's fiberglass, because the radar antenna is underneath it. But the fuselage is a massive structure with a very large strength to weight ratio. The kinetic energy of those Boeing 767s traveling at 500+ MPH easily overcame the steel perimeter construction of the towers. The steel was designed for vertical loads, not point impacts containing millions of megajoules.

This chain of events was so simple and obvious that I'm stating these facts without having spent five minutes researching the exact sequences of destruction. I didn't need to, anyone with a basic grasp of building construction and a beginner's background in structural steel elements would instinctively understand this.

But believe what you want to. The reality is easily explainable, the facts and calculations are indisputable.

The common rebuttal is that no building has collapsed due to fire previously. Ironically when you google buildings that have collapsed due to fire only WTC articles come up lol.

A lot of innocent people suffered that day.

 

[4Waters]

The common rebuttal is that no building has collapsed due to fire previously. Ironically when you google buildings that have collapsed due to fire only WTC articles come up lol.

A lot of innocent people suffered that day.

All that fire proofing broke off the steel from the impact and that's how the steel was exposed and weakened

 

[rrrr]

The common rebuttal is that no building has collapsed due to fire previously. Ironically when you google buildings that have collapsed due to fire only WTC articles come up lol.

A lot of innocent people suffered that day.

Which ignores the fact large sections of the fireproofing was destroyed by the impact. The reason it's there is because fires burn above the plastic deformity limit of structural steel. Remove it, and guess what happens?

 

[rrrr]

The towers moved a lot, I did a quick search but didn't find out how far the towers swayed from impact. Here is a video at 8x speed showing the tower swaying. Speed the video up x2 and you can really see the swaying

The video shows how quickly the fire propagated and intensified. There's a rather long video of a North Tower building corner with the fire raging, and molten steel is flowing out in a shower that looks like it was caused by a huge oxyacetylene torch. I was shocked when the buildings collapsed, but I certainly wasn't surprised.

I've never seen any mention of the fact both planes hit each tower with the wings rolled about 30°. I believe this was planned and intentional, because it spread the impact damage vertically through several floors of the building. That action made it almost certain then buildings would collapse.

 

[530RL]

The video shows how quickly the fire propagated and intensified. There's a rather long video of a North Tower building corner with the fire raging, and molten steel is flowing out in a shower that looks like it was caused by a huge oxyacetylene torch. I was shocked when the buildings collapsed, but I certainly wasn't surprised.

I've never seen any mention of the fact both planes hit each tower with the wings rolled about 30°. I believe this was planned and intentional, because it spread the impact damage vertically through several floors of the building. That action made it almost certain then buildings would collapse.

To your multiple points, There is a premise by many that these groups are a bunch of uneducated goat herders. They are not. They didn’t hijack and crash those planes in specific ways out of luck or happenstance.

These terrorist organizations throughout the world are led by, financed by and contain some of the best educated minds in the world educated by the best universities in the world. Yes they are sick and filled with fealty to strange religious beliefs but we see that everywhere.

These were well planned events using true believers as sacrificial lambs by seriously educated and scientific minds. Not just these events but all sorts of well engineered inventions in the battlefield from roadside hard to detect explosive devices as well as now drones.

That is why taking them serious, as opposed to thinking this was an inside job by governments is so important. It is exactly part of their strategy. Take the focus off the real threat. America and developed western countries needs serious people in serious jobs to deal with these threats that have always existed and will always exist.

The conspiracy theories just makes peace loving people who want to live a good life and make a better life for future generations at greater risk from not achieving that life. It takes the focus off the real threat.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

To add to the fireproofing issue, there was a documentary about the building of the trade center towers and how the fireproofing contractor was some mafia guy who basically skimmed off the project and skimped on materials and training the staff on application.

The towers did not have enough fireproofing of the steel beams, it was not properly applied and it was coming off on its own exposing the steel.

So you can say that the systemic corruption of NYC brought their own buildings down, or at least contributed.

No one can know for sure if the fireproofing was adequate for the impact of jets larger than existed at the time the buildings wee designed, but I'm pretty damn sure had the fireproofing been adequate more people would have survived by giving more time before the towers fell for evacuations to take place.

Unfortunately for most above the impact zones, the building design doomed them. The centrally clustered stairways were cut off by the impact of the planes, and sprinklers were not required in skyscrapers at the time it was built.

 

[rrrr]

To your multiple points, There is a premise by many that these groups are a bunch of uneducated goat herders. They are not. They didn’t hijack and crash those planes in specific ways out of luck or happenstance.

These terrorist organizations throughout the world are led by, financed by and contain some of the best educated minds in the world educated by the best universities in the world. Yes they are sick and filled with fealty to strange religious beliefs but we see that everywhere.

These were well planned events using true believers as sacrificial lambs by seriously educated and scientific minds. Not just these events but all sorts of well engineered inventions in the battlefield from roadside hard to detect explosive devices as well as now drones.

That is why taking them serious, as opposed to thinking this was an inside job by governments is so important. It is exactly part of their strategy. Take the focus off the real threat. America and developed western countries needs serious people in serious jobs to deal with these threats that have always existed and will always exist.

The conspiracy theories just makes peace loving people who want to live a good life and make a better life for future generations at greater risk from not achieving that life. It takes the focus off the real threat.

Yep. Your construct also explains an underlying assumption in most JFK assassination theories. While it might go unsaid, there is a common undercurrent in them, that being the belief that it's impossible the complete fuckup Lee Harvey Oswald was able to kill a US president acting alone.

His cheap mail order surplus Italian military rifle, a moving target, his employment at the Texas School Book Depository, his brief residence in Russia, and other coincidental occurrences made it impossible he acted alone. If he didn't act alone, then the act had to have been conceived and executed by nefarious actors in the highest echelons of the state. It makes the death explainable, and therefore must be what came to pass.

Yet these things have occurred throughout history, and hinge on the improbable and the vagaries of fortune. World War I happened because a driver took a wrong turn, and an aimless 19 year old with a beat up revolver and ideas of revolution was on the scene when the car stopped to turn around.

 

[rrrr]

To add to the fireproofing issue, there was a documentary about the building of the trade center towers and how the fireproofing contractor was some mafia guy who basically skimmed off the project and skimped on materials and training the staff on application.

The towers did not have enough fireproofing of the steel beams, it was not properly applied and it was coming off on its own exposing the steel.

So you can say that the systemic corruption of NYC brought their own buildings down, or at least contributed.

No one can know for sure if the fireproofing was adequate for the impact of jets larger than existed at the time the buildings wee designed, but I'm pretty damn sure had the fireproofing been adequate more people would have survived by giving more time before the towers fell for evacuations to take place.

Unfortunately for most above the impact zones, the building design doomed them. The centrally clustered stairways were cut off by the impact of the planes, and sprinklers were not required in skyscrapers at the time it was built.

But this claim mirrors exactly what I posted above. It cannot be that the huge impact of the aircraft, which made the buildings visibly sway and deposited the engines of United Flight 175 ten blocks away from the South Tower after they traveled completely through the structure, caused the damage to the fireproofing. It must have been due to criminal malfeasance, and as a result more people died than would have otherwise.

Yet there is no proof this is true. The stories were heresay. It ignores the effect of a 300,000 lb Boeing 767 carrying at least 15,000 lbs of fuel hitting the buildings at 500+ MPH. Theres no doubt the indescribable violence of the impact fully stripped huge amounts of fireproofing from the steel, and caused structural damage that made the building inescapably vulnerable to the fires that followed. There certainly wasn't any way to inspect the remains of the structures and determine the fireproofing integrity after the collapse.

The other fact is most of those killed were on the floors above the impact zones, and they were doomed to die the second the buildings were hit, because the fires prevented any escape through the stairwells, even if they hadn't been destroyed the impact.

The fireproofing sprayed on steel doesn't fall off. It is mechanically bonded to the structure after it is applied and dries, and difficult to remove. It takes a lot of effort. I know this personally, because over the years my company performed modifications to these type structures many times, adding structural members or welding thick steel plates to I beam flanges in multistory buildings to increase floor loading capacities for data center equipment. The fireproofing had to be scraped off by hand tools, and replaced after changes were made. It's a homogeneous material that aggressively adheres to the steel.

Television "documentaries" that pushed this story, and others with similar claims of human failings brought on by greed and malicious intent, were common in the years after the tragedy. They had the same credibility as reality shows about Alaskan gold mining.

Again, this is simply common sense. I don't need to investigate the details of the carnage to conclude the buildings were fatally weakened and going to collapse. It would have been a miracle if they didn't.

The WTC towers and WTC 7 had 100% coverage fire sprinkler systems designed to the requirements of NFPA 13, and they were regularly tested and fully operational when the attack occurred. The impact of the aircraft immediately destroyed the vertical risers of the systems, rendering them useless.