What would you pay to fly into Havasu?

[Ace in the Hole]

Once havasu lost the subsidy it was no longer feasible...the terminal exists and is actually very nice inside... I would pay $200ish round trip from anywhere in PHX to Havasu r/t and would do it pretty much weekly. More than that it doesn't make sense. I'm honestly surprised there isn't some m/f deal for the medial staff that commute in. Wife leaves Monday AM, and comes back Friday Night unless we go up to havasu... I told her it would get old and she's now at that point...

 

[Sleek-Jet]

You can't make a bunch of flights anyway, this is a premium service..... This has to be 3k each direction minimum. It's not Jet Blue

Honestly with the demand in the summer im shocked that JSX hasn't done it. They have winter routes just for snow skiing in CO now

Which tells you something. I don't know what the break even seat count is in the Embrears that JSX flies. The old Beech 1900's had a break even load of 6 people. Anything less than that and it was a money loser.

Maybe some sort of charter club type arrangement. Say buy in is $8-10k (and continuing dues), then what ever price per seat on a trip. 2-3 trips a week... out one evening, back the next morning. Start on Thursday evening, last flight back Tuesday morning. It's going to be closer to 500-600 per trip per seat to keep the operation afloat. Keep the airplane on a 135 certificate so members can take the airplane elsewhere but you will have to figure how to utilize the airplane and crew and still make it running back and forth to Havasu. For a family of 4 that is 2000-2400 a weekend just to get there and back. I mean the drive sucks, but I don't know if it sucks that bad.

 

[whiteworks]

Which tells you something. I don't know what the break even seat count is in the Embrears that JSX flies. The old Beech 1900's had a break even load of 6 people. Anything less than that and it was a money loser.

Maybe some sort of charter club type arrangement. Say buy in is $8-10k (and continuing dues), then what ever price per seat on a trip. 2-3 trips a week... out one evening, back the next morning. Start on Thursday evening, last flight back Tuesday morning. It's going to be closer to 500-600 per trip per seat to keep the operation afloat. Keep the airplane on a 135 certificate so members can take the airplane elsewhere but you will have to figure how to utilize the airplane and crew and still make it running back and forth to Havasu. For a family of 4 that is 2000-2400 a weekend just to get there and back. I mean the drive sucks, but I don't know if it sucks that bad.

I think this is more on point with something I’m thinking about. I’ve got my eye on a creampuff 414 with RAM conversion and low hours. Ideally a flight club type structure with an initial buy in and then hourly operation cost with the club memebers who are rated to fly it. I’d just want to offset operational and ownership costs vs. being profitable. A couple hand picked family’s to be involved is all it would need.

Like I said just spit balling.

The Tecnam 2012 might be an interesting aircraft for a 135 structure for havasu weekenders. But that aquisition is 10x the 414 and would require a profitable business model. The flight club concept would be cool for a few families that are looking to move around quickly over the weekend.

 

[hallett21]

Back in the late 80's early 90's there was a direct flight from LAX to Havasu and a flight from John Wayne to Bullhead then to Havasu. Didn't last long.

I would think a legit American Airlines like plane (twin turbo prop) running between Memorial Day and Labor Day weekend would do pretty well. Thursday at 6-7pm leaving SoCal would let everyone work a relatively full day. And return from Havasu at 5-7pm Sunday. You’re home in bed by 9 without the fatigue of driving.

My guess is that because the FAA is not subsidizing the flight the numbers don’t work at $100 a seat one way.

 

[hallett21]

I think this is more on point with something I’m thinking about. I’ve got my eye on a creampuff 414 with RAM conversion and low hours. Ideally a flight club type structure with an initial buy in and then hourly operation cost with the club memebers who are rated to fly it. I’d just want to offset operational and ownership costs vs. being profitable. A couple hand picked family’s to be involved is all it would need.

Like I said just spit balling.

The Tecnam 2012 might be an interesting aircraft for a 135 structure for havasu weekenders. But that aquisition is 10x the 414 and would require a profitable business model. The flight club concept would be cool for a few families that are looking to move around quickly over the weekend.

What airport does it fly out of for SoCal?

 

[MeCasa16]

This concept doesn’t work unless the government is willing to subsidize it. You also need a company with a large economy of scale to be able to swallow the unforeseen circumstances (breakdowns, delays, weather diverts, etc) to keep making payments when you aren’t getting paid.
Lots of people with deep pockets and means have put pen to paper trying to figure out a way to avoid the drive, but it simply won’t work, unless you can afford your own plane and do it for your own convenience.

Scheduled service or even charter would be way too much money to sustain a business model. There are so many unforeseen costs and circumstances that are barriers to profitability. If there was a way to make a profit, it would be done already. I promise you this isn’t some untapped market. The minute the subsidy went away, the airline went away.

Just like the commercial. I know a thing or two, because I’ve seen a thing or two. This shit is a pipe dream.

 

[whiteworks]

What airport does it fly out of for SoCal?

We’re based out of Cable in Upland, but with that structure mentioned above the plane could pick up a family where ever as it’s just an added cost for them into incur for the convenance. It’s like 10 minutes to john Wayne, 20 minutes to Santa Monica from where I’m sitting.

 

[RiverDave]

Those Riley rockets are badass, amazing what the need to get a heavier payload off the ground of short runways was able to help develop. The rest of that story is better told over beers in person than on a public forum I’m literally sitting where the original concept came to life as I’m typing this.

It wouldn’t surprise me.. lol. Just about everything from that era is all about that shit.

 

[whiteworks]

This concept doesn’t work unless the government is willing to subsidize it. You also need a company with a large economy of scale to be able to swallow the unforeseen circumstances (breakdowns, delays, weather diverts, etc) to keep making payments when you aren’t getting paid.
Lots of people with deep pockets and means have put pen to paper trying to figure out a way to avoid the drive, but it simply won’t work, unless you can afford your own plane and do it for your own convenience.

Scheduled service or even charter would be way too much money to sustain a business model. There are so many unforeseen costs and circumstances that are barriers to profitability. If there was a way to make a profit, it would be done already. I promise you this isn’t some untapped market. The minute the subsidy went away, the airline went away.

Just like the commercial. I know a thing or two, because I’ve seen a thing or two. This shit is a pipe dream.

I wouldn’t say it’s a pipe dream, it’s just an expensive thing I have to admit I’m getting a chuckle seeing folks say $200 round trip for on demand charter red carpet/white glove service in under 30 minutes

 

[angiebaby]

On my job interview at McCulloch in 1983 I took Havasu Airlines from Phx to Havasu. The pilot said would you like to sit in the right front seat? I thought it was the coolest thing ever, if I don’t get the job I’m still moving here.

I don’t think you could make the numbers work today

When we took the seaplane from Seattle to Victoria, Jeff got to ride co-pilot on the way back. I was jealous, but happy he got to have the experience. Seaplanes are absolutely rad, btw.

 

[seanroberts]

It’s very expensive, take my Cessna 310L from John Wayne to Lake Havasu is about 1:10 wheels up to wheels down on an IFR flight plan, about 1hr VFR. I would burn about 34 gallons of fuel each way at about $6.50 a gallon, plus tie down or hanger fees. That doesn’t include any oil or the expense to keep the plane. When you add my insurance, hanger and annual that all runs about $15,000.00 a year without flying it once. I don’t owe anything on the plane and I’ve got lots of hours and my commercial and instructor ratings. So I’m at $220.00 in fuel each way, the bigger the plane the more it cost to run and maintain. It’s not cheap. I would agree a turboprop would be the best route for cost on a charter operation. That’s my .02

 

[Ace in the Hole]

When we took the seaplane from Seattle to Victoria, Jeff got to ride co-pilot on the way back. I was jealous, but happy he got to have the experience. Seaplanes are absolutely rad, btw.

View attachment 1339162 View attachment 1339163

Those things scare the hell out of me. My in-laws took one to pick up their trawler when it was delivered to Vancouver.

A few months later that same plane crashed killing everyone on board. It’s a big nope from me.

 

[H20 Toie]

Under $500 each way and i would use it from burbank lax area

 

[DUNEFLYER]

Under $500 each way and i would use it from burbank lax area

This would be pretty doable if you live close to the airport that the pilot and plane are located.
Very last minute trip this afternoon, ended up flying out solo. Having someone sittin next to ya that is tossing in a couple hundred bucks to ride along would be awesome.

 

[Orange Juice]

City's only commercial airline pulling up stakes

Commercial passenger service is soon ending in Lake Havasu City, leaving a terminal behind and residents with one less option to get to Phoenix and Las Vegas.

www.havasunews.com

 

[EarpRider]

Isn't part of the problem - What do you do once you land in Havasu?
How do you get to your house, how do you launch your boat, how do you get to the market or go to Flying X on Saturday night?

 

[yz450mm]

These guys came into KAPV today as we were fueling up the mighty 172 for lesson number three, their fuel bill was $850 and I'm sure they couldn't care less.

As we were doing our run-up they were pulling down to the cafe to get lunch, then a few hours later flight radar 24 said they were en route to Avalon.

I looked it up, brand new 6.7M plane.

After looking at the costs to buy my own plane in a few years, I'm thinking that the private flight club thing is the only way it would be cost efficient to operate a multi-passenger twin engine (or nice single) plane.

Like Dylan said, an initial buy-in to help with upfront costs, then a monthly club cost to maintain the plane. Pilots would have to be highly qualified, and low hours pilots would need to have a experienced pilot as second in command for X amount of hours. Every pilot in the club would have to do a check ride with the most experienced pilot to be able to fly solo.

 

[arch stanton]

Maybe you can get more passengers that could afford the cost by stopping at a few small airports lets say start in San Diego then orange county and another in La and then on to Havasu. Think of it as a party bus that stops to pick up friends it would add an extra hour + but you have a better shot at filling the plane, and it does not have to be the same airports every week and if it's going to be a business and not a flying club the plane could go AZ and make a few more stops before returning to Havasu again.
As far as transportation once in Havasu Uber for the ride to and from the airport and I'm sure somebody will launch your boat if the price is right.

This really is a go be poor some place else thread

 

[zhandfull]

Thread makes me realize that I have more time than money.

 

[yz450mm]

Thread makes me realize that I have more time than money.

Getting your PPL isn't that bad, and it's super fun. You can be from SoCal to the river in an hour and 15 minutes in your own plane or a rental.

As a PPL you can't legally charter anybody, but if your buddy or friends wanted to join you as passengers then they could easily chip in for the cost later.

 

[boatpi]

As I recall the last commercial flights cause I took them many times was a Beachcraft 1900 operated by US airways. Used to fly into Las Vegas and then take them to Lake Havasu. Then they stopped those flights, and I had to flood of Phoenix and then to Havasu.

 

[zhandfull]

Getting your PPL isn't that bad, and it's super fun. You can be from SoCal to the river in an hour and 15 minutes in your own plane or a rental.

As a PPL you can't legally charter anybody, but if your buddy or friends wanted to join you as passengers then they could easily chip in for the cost later.

I have thought about that a lot. Even have some log book time.

Love flying but have decided pilot in command is probably not for me. Would be great to buy gas and sit in right seat once or twice a month.

 

[yz450mm]

I have thought about that a lot. Even have some log book time.

Love flying but have decided pilot in command is probably not for me. Would be great to buy gas and sit in right seat once or twice a month.

Sounds like you're my first flying buddy.

 

[yz450mm]

I have thought about that a lot. Even have some log book time.

Love flying but have decided pilot in command is probably not for me. Would be great to buy gas and sit in right seat once or twice a month.

We had some fun today, we were getting tossed around a lot by the wind plus dealing with a couple helicopters and one big baller in a turbine single. My CFI held his faith in me, but his hands were definitely ready to take over. Lol.

 

[17 10 Flat]

Havasu Airport was a regular stop for the Ford plane. On the way to or from PAG (premier auto group) Aston Martin, Volvo and Jaguar headquarters in LA. Loved flying in that plane. Lost some FF miles but the direct flight from Detroit was nice.
Airport would let us keep a few vehicles on site for our future use.

 

[BHC Vic]

That’s pretty much how I grew up.. My old man had a rule that he would never live more than 7 miles from an airport..

When I was real young he had a T210 and we’d fly to the river just about every weekend. If we weren’t going to the river we’d be going somewhere in Baja.

He had an old Cadillac that he would leave at the airport he would use that to get us to the keys and launch the boat etc..

Later on in life he bought a P210 Riley rocket and that thing was a game changer.. quiet inside, faster, and way nicer inside.

I am always very appreciative that he worked his ass off to give us a great childhood and life.

I still remember getting up earlier than everyone else and flying to Vegas for breakfast and being back before anyone missed us..

Stacy asked me to get a pilots license awhile back and it’s something I’m strongly considering.. just have to find the time.

Possibly not in fact we are down at the post office right now getting the kids passports so we can start vacationing with the kids out of the country. A plane would help if we were doing the Mexico thing.
RD

I’ve always wanted to fly. My dui’s kind of out that on hold. Last weekend I spent a little time hanging out with Dylan. It’s still a dream I have but I realize it’s a completely different world. Some things in my life would really have to change to get me to that level.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I think this is more on point with something I’m thinking about. I’ve got my eye on a creampuff 414 with RAM conversion and low hours. Ideally a flight club type structure with an initial buy in and then hourly operation cost with the club memebers who are rated to fly it. I’d just want to offset operational and ownership costs vs. being profitable. A couple hand picked family’s to be involved is all it would need.

Like I said just spit balling.

The Tecnam 2012 might be an interesting aircraft for a 135 structure for havasu weekenders. But that aquisition is 10x the 414 and would require a profitable business model. The flight club concept would be cool for a few families that are looking to move around quickly over the weekend.

I'm familiar with one club that has done something similar in the past. At one time they had the usually trainer/advanced single engine airplanes on the line but also had a couple 414's, 2 Pilatus (Pilati?) and a Citation II.

The pitch was club pilots could fly anything, and if needed an instructor would accompany them on the trip. Then one day they pranged an airplane and it was discovered that what they really were doing was running a bootleg charter operation. The club got in some trouble with the FAA but is still around. The twin Cessnas, Pilatus and Citation are all gone though. I looked at joining right around the time the big fast airplanes were leaving the club. Would have been a sweet deal for sure.

I love me a nice 414, especially if it has one of the RAM mods and electric AC. Havasu to SoCal is right in that airframe's wheel house. But I would suggest going full part 135 and not try to sneak around the edges.

 

[mesquito_creek]

The plane doesn’t have to be as fast if you just live in a hanger home on an airpark. I fly the slowest plane of all my friends but I beat everyone door to destination because I can be staring my pre flight in 3-4 minutes from my kitchen table. I don’t even have an attached hanger, I am poor and have to walk about 500 feet to my shade tie down.

 

[whiteworks]

It’s very expensive, take my Cessna 310L from John Wayne to Lake Havasu is about 1:10 wheels up to wheels down on an IFR flight plan, about 1hr VFR. I would burn about 34 gallons of fuel each way at about $6.50 a gallon, plus tie down or hanger fees. That doesn’t include any oil or the expense to keep the plane. When you add my insurance, hanger and annual that all runs about $15,000.00 a year without flying it once. I don’t owe anything on the plane and I’ve got lots of hours and my commercial and instructor ratings. So I’m at $220.00 in fuel each way, the bigger the plane the more it cost to run and maintain. It’s not cheap. I would agree a turboprop would be the best route for cost on a charter operation. That’s my .02

How long have you been flying? My partner has a couple 310’s they use for mutli training, very cool planes ans really nice setup for flying into havasu from SoCal. If you’re up at KCCB stop in and say hello

 

[Big B Hova]

Ubersu? Havaber? WhipperLyft?

Leer jet on them outside. Boat interior and loud stereo with stocked ice chests and hot hvac on the inside.

Arrive pre-hammered to your vacation lol

 

[whiteworks]

These guys came into KAPV today as we were fueling up the mighty 172 for lesson number three, their fuel bill was $850 and I'm sure they couldn't care less.

As we were doing our run-up they were pulling down to the cafe to get lunch, then a few hours later flight radar 24 said they were en route to Avalon.

I looked it up, brand new 6.7M plane.

After looking at the costs to buy my own plane in a few years, I'm thinking that the private flight club thing is the only way it would be cost efficient to operate a multi-passenger twin engine (or nice single) plane.

Like Dylan said, an initial buy-in to help with upfront costs, then a monthly club cost to maintain the plane. Pilots would have to be highly qualified, and low hours pilots would need to have an experienced pilot as second in command for X amount of hours. Every pilot in the club would have to do a check ride with the most experienced pilot to be able to fly solo. View attachment 1339252

Stoked to see you moving forward on your ppl, it’s a big commitment. I really shouldn’t be looking at planes right now, I’m on a very slippery slope and if I go in it will surely be a rabbit hole of training, maintenance, and never ending costs associated with keeping an aircraft and the ability to use it current.

That being said we live in amazing times where humans have the ability to take flight so I might as well exercise the option sooner rather than later.

 

[whiteworks]

I’ve always wanted to fly. My dui’s kind of out that on hold. Last weekend I spent a little time hanging out with Dylan. It’s still a dream I have but I realize it’s a completely different world. Some things in my life would really have to change to get me to that level.

It was good hanging the other day, you’re on solid ground and if you wanted to pursue a PPL there is a path for you. It’s gonna be a lot of work to navigate the system but there is a path for those with issues in their past.

I see a lot of dudes come through that are making a mid life run at the airlines as career. The young kids that live at home and can put in 12 hours a day have a leg up on the middle aged family guys that are moonlighting with aviation training. My hats off to anyone who’s pursuing a certificate, if only to go have breakfast burritos on the weekends at airport cafes, it’s a big commitment just to get there.

 

[mesquito_creek]

5000 feet of asphalt at Riviera with club golf carts and rack storage would get it done!

 

[whiteworks]

I'm familiar with one club that has done something similar in the past. At one time they had the usually trainer/advanced single engine airplanes on the line but also had a couple 414's, 2 Pilatus (Pilati?) and a Citation II.

The pitch was club pilots could fly anything, and if needed an instructor would accompany them on the trip. Then one day they pranged an airplane and it was discovered that what they really were doing was running a bootleg charter operation. The club got in some trouble with the FAA but is still around. The twin Cessnas, Pilatus and Citation are all gone though. I looked at joining right around the time the big fast airplanes were leaving the club. Would have been a sweet deal for sure.

I love me a nice 414, especially if it has one of the RAM mods and electric AC. Havasu to SoCal is right in that airframe's wheel house. But I would suggest going full part 135 and not try to sneak around the edges.

To be honest I’m super sketch about shared aircraft, it would have to be the right people for me to even think about partnerships or a flight club concept. However the flight club model does exist for a reason. The fact that I’m even exploring those concepts tells me I’m not ready to own a plane

 

[Paradox]

If a legit set up, it would definitely be a game changer. We’d be in and commit to at lease twice a month (Thursday afternoon to Sunday) if something like this ever developed for say $400 a seat RT for two passengers. Downside is our closest airport is Aqua Dulce which is in the middle of no where.

I suspect that even at $400 a seat, it’s a pipe dream.

 

[hallett21]

Isn't part of the problem - What do you do once you land in Havasu?
How do you get to your house, how do you launch your boat, how do you get to the market or go to Flying X on Saturday night?

Shuttle service and you keep a beater at the house.

 

[hallett21]

As I recall the last commercial flights cause I took them many times was a Beachcraft 1900 operated by US airways. Used to fly into Las Vegas and then take them to Lake Havasu. Then they stopped those flights, and I had to flood of Phoenix and then to Havasu.

For some reason I remember America West as a little kid.

 

[DWC]

This would be pretty doable if you live close to the airport that the pilot and plane are located.
Very last minute trip this afternoon, ended up flying out solo. Having someone sittin next to ya that is tossing in a couple hundred bucks to ride along would be awesome.

 

[RIVERBORN]

Isn't part of the problem - What do you do once you land in Havasu?
How do you get to your house, how do you launch your boat, how do you get to the market or go to Flying X on Saturday night?

You are talking w guys that are contemplating “private flights”. Lol I’d imagine they can figure a way to get to the house from there.

 

[RIVERBORN]

It’s 4.5 from house to house for me. (Bakersfield). We’ve contemplated the pilot’s license deal. My BIL is taking his last flight today before his completion. In reality I think if I drove to the airport, loaded family, precheck etc, fly, unload, park tie down whatever, be about the same time. MAYBE a little shorter.

 

[SJP]

My office is in my hangar at LGB off of 26L. From work to my house door is 1.5 hours. It was and still is a commitment. Being able to spend the afternoon at my pool in LHC and back for a commitment to my boys the same day - priceless.


View attachment IMG_0217.jpeg

 

[rivermobster]

This would be pretty doable if you live close to the airport that the pilot and plane are located.
Very last minute trip this afternoon, ended up flying out solo. Having someone sittin next to ya that is tossing in a couple hundred bucks to ride along would be awesome.

You have my number...

Next time you have an open seat, Please use it!

(Not kidding either).

 

[gqchris]

I wouldn’t say it’s a pipe dream, it’s just an expensive thing I have to admit I’m getting a chuckle seeing folks say $200 round trip for on demand charter red carpet/white glove service in under 30 minutes

Im paying 300$ one way on American from PHX to LAX later tonight. I was cracking up also for a charter plane for $200. When, in 1975?

 

[gqchris]

My office is in my hangar at LGB off of 26L. From work to my house door is 1.5 hours. It was and still is a commitment. Being able to spend the afternoon at my pool in LHC and back for a commitment to my boys the same day - priceless.


View attachment 1339438

I was waiting for you to chime in Sam! Your setup is what dreams are made of. Thanks for showing me around LGB a while back and your office. Salad was damn good at the cafe also!

 

[86403]

Flying is expensive

 

[foxfam312]

My Daughter Krysta works for Cruise Air out of French Valley Airport here in Temecula Ca, They Fly the Cirrus SR22T Aircraft, Beautiful Aircraft by the way, Give her a call and get pricing.

 

[boatpi]

And YES, it began as America West, sold to US Airways and they continued the flights, ad changed to route running out of Phoenix. And that was a pain. and a much longer flight.

 

[rrrr]

Back in the late 80's early 90's there was a direct flight from LAX to Havasu and a flight from John Wayne to Bullhead then to Havasu. Didn't last long.

I wanna know if anyone paid to fly from Bullhead to LHC.

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

I flew for Mesa Airlines from 1993-1998. We operated into Havasu from LAX then up to Bullhead City using a B1900 flying as United Express. The route was contracted through United Airlines and part of EAS (Essential Air Service) subsidized by the Government. Also Bullhead City to Havasu and Phoenix operating as America West Express contracted with America West Airlines. Mesa also had a maintenance hanger in Bullhead City that serviced about 20 of the airplanes cycling in and out of the Phoenix and LAX markets. Around 1997 the EAS program funding was being cut the routes were no longer profitable and United Airlines did not renew the contract with Mesa to provide air service in many of these markets thus scheduled air service in Havasu and Bullhead City was dropped. Same with the America West code share in the Phoenix market.

 

[HNL2LHC]

I will be hitting the road in a few hours. Flew into PHX Thursday night. Tonight in Corona CA then Vegas M-th nights. It takes about $150 for fuel in the Denali round trip. and yes that is with seat belts buckled before any of you Karens ask. The driving was fun at first but not so much now that I have been many times over the years. But the question is how much I’d be willing to pay. Not really sure what that amount is at, $500 that is bout the starting point to Hawaii travel. I think that I am just going to change my lifestyle to just not have to go to these places out side of Havasu as much.