What would you do to Bring Ski Racing Back in the U.S.?

[RiverDave]

Late 70's early 80's we would have 36 skiers in 16-19 boys. Three heats of 12 skiers, and that was just in Region II. We would have approximately, 25 race weekends that would start in January with the Polar Bear and end in October with marathons in Havasu.

That is when ski racing was competitive and a whole lot of fun!

What do you think would have to happen to Bring Ski Racing back to it's former glory?

RD

 

[RyanPartridge]

What do you think would have to happen to Bring Ski Racing back to it's former glory?

RD

Wakeboard amnesia.

And the desire to go fast.

 

[wildone]

Wakeboard amnesia.

And the desire to go fast.

$$$$, $$$$ And More $$$$$

 

[schiadart73]

What do you think would have to happen to Bring Ski Racing back to it's former glory?

RD

BIG DOLLARS AND BIG BOATS killed ski racing, not the danger as most people would say. Shorten the ropes to 180' max and limit the size of the skiis. Bring back the flatbottoms to bring the cost down. I personally retired because there was too many $60,000 boats with $5,000 drivers, and that was in 1985.

 

[Kdub157]

and also, at this point in ski racing, if you shorten ropes, only allow certain boats, you going to get all the big dogs who sponsor every race to be discouraged. how about we expand ideas instead of limiting them.

 

[schiadart73]

and also, at this point in ski racing, if you shorten ropes, only allow certain boats, you going to get all the big dogs who sponsor every race to be discouraged. how about we expand ideas instead of limiting them.

So we want to keep the 10 or so dogs happy and not have 50 or 60 of us mutts get back into the sport. If they put the money they spend on the worlds back into US racing I guarantee the sport would grow. Don't get me wrong, I have been a world team member and still have family and good friends that race. I think the Puddingstone weekend and opening up the nationals was a great start.

 

[AFUEL7067]

The worlds and the politics involved with the selection killed ski racing ,

 

[schiadart73]

The worlds and the politics involved with the selection killed ski racing ,

That did have a lot to do with it. There was too much effort and money for only 3 women and 3 men to go over seas. That is why I said to put the money they spend back into US racing.
Politics, absolutely, I didn't agree with any of the teams choices until the late 90's but at that time we were running out of quality skiers.

 

[Skyskier]

BIG DOLLARS AND BIG BOATS killed ski racing, not the danger as most people would say. Shorten the ropes to 180' max and limit the size of the skiis. Bring back the flatbottoms to bring the cost down. I personally retired because there was too many $60,000 boats with $5,000 drivers, and that was in 1985.

I'd have to agree with you on this,..........I'd also like to see the starts made with EVERYBODY up, lined up an the flag dropped when EVERYBODY was even steven, ........you got 8 or more boats in a class ? start them farther up river an make it a loooooooong front straightaway .....you miss your start ? you're gonna have to "race" catchup mode I saw more than 1 race start when there were guy's still feeding out lines ?.......I asked my Pop's what he thought about the huge amounts of money it would take to be "competitive these days, on the one hand, he felt it pretty much relative to his day ( 1960's), flat bottom 18 ft. bare hull, $ 2 to 4 K, crate engines, long blocks, maybe a grand, an Andy Clark racing ski, $60, with bindings, $85, a "good" life jacket, $20, Bell Racing helmet, $40 to $60, ..............a good weeks salary back then, $120 take home , race entry fee's, $5 per class,.........bottom line, racing wasn't cheap back then, just like today, you wanna play ? ya gotta pay, and it'll be the same tommorrow.

 

[skifaster]

That did have a lot to do with it. There was too much effort and money for only 3 women and 3 men to go over seas. That is why I said to put the money they spend back into US racing.
Politics, absolutely, I didn't agree with any of the teams choices until the late 90's but at that time we were running out of quality skiers.

Unfortunately this is a common misconception for years. Not sure how it was paid for before 1995 when our family first got involved with the Worlds, but I know how it has worked since then. The money isn't taken from ski racing in the US, clubs, the NWSRA, or anything like that. Once it is determined how much it will cost to send the team over, that amount is divided by the number of team members. That is each team members responsibility. They usually sell raffle tickets to help raise the money and some people that can afford it simply write a check. So it doesn't take money away from ski racing here in the US. I have heard this complaint over and over again and it is a shame that is how people view it. If it were true, I would agree with the complaint 100% and my family has gone to every Worlds since 1995 except 1.

But catering to World Team Members and only running marathons has definitely hurt the sport. It doesn't give the new guy or casual racer a place to get started. With the Puddingstone events and the US Open, hopefully the focus can get back to getting new people in the sport and people who quit years ago. Unfortunately most of us sit on the side and complain rather than try and make a difference. Myself included at times.

 

[AFUEL7067]

Mass starts were dropped in favor of international starts , flights are boring nothing like 20 boats side by side going into the first turn after a 5 mile or better straight. Many skiers worked their tail off to go to the worlds and had more points during the selection year and others where chosen who may have been better or who had done something in the past but not that year and discouraged a lot of good skiers, also some of the world team leaders lacked leadership skills and didnt know how to deal with teams or people,they made alot of bad choices.Water Ski racing became worlds oriented and the main focus was on what was best for a few. The gang who ran it then will never admit that it turned into a good ol boy deal but it did and it was the demise . I think its great that there is a grass roots effort to get things going again but I can tell you this i sat in meetings in El Segundo and Redondo beach in the 80s when there was still a ray of hope and thats all it was , it was big talk and no do and nothing changed . With out the average class or age racer the world team had no place to play, look where it ended up.....

 

[racerden]

BIG DOLLARS AND BIG BOATS killed ski racing, not the danger as most people would say. Shorten the ropes to 180' max and limit the size of the skiis. Bring back the flatbottoms to bring the cost down. I personally retired because there was too many $60,000 boats with $5,000 drivers, and that was in 1985.

I don't agree 100% that big dough and big boats clobbered ski racing.
#1-First and foremost, there aren't any boat and ski clubs left. What started & bolstered our sport the MOST was a bunch of families who had the common interest of boating then got together on weekends and formed some sort of club. From these clubs waterski competition arose. The NWSRA was formed and the respective clubs then hosted their sanctioned race which generated funds for them to host meetings, fun outings, Christmas events, etc. Somewhere along the line these clubs started to dwindle (perhaps because of watersports evolution, see #2) and the respective NWSRA Regions took over the racing. This basically ended growth as we knew it.
#2-Second, watersports has evolved like snow sports. Wakeboarding (like snowboarding) is now in the forefront. It's not a bad thing, but it is the real deal. On any given day, families can tune into their media and see these evolving watersports that do not include waterskiing. Key word here is exposure; something we cannot duplicate at our level.
#3- Costs, big boats and superteams (big dollars). I understand the US Open hosted the largest boat turn-out in a long time; and everyone had a V-bottom. As for the superteams, any competition has them: Indycar, NFL, even the Olympics. Competition thrives on this, and frankly our sport depends on their existance. However, everyone can be beaten; no one is immune to defeat. If a boat owner feels he/she is not competitive, run slower classes or even the MPH limiting class (which is a blast to say the least).
Conclusion- We need more grass roots events that we as racers need to talk up. Outside of the existing racing families generation growths, this is the only effective way I can see to grow our sport.

Enough of my soapbox, there ya have it.
________
Ipad Guide

 

[skifaster]

Mass starts were dropped in favor of international starts , flights are boring nothing like 20 boats side by side going into the first turn after a 5 mile or better straight. Many skiers worked their tail off to go to the worlds and had more points during the selection year and others where chosen who may have been better or who had done something in the past but not that year and discouraged a lot of skiers, also some of the world team leaders lacked leadership skills and didnt know how to deal with teams or people.Water Ski racing became worlds oriented and the main focus was on what was best for a few. The gang who ran it now and then will never admit that it turned into a good ol boy deal but it did and it was the demise .

I agree world team selections have always been controversial, however, with how many World Championships Team USA has won (10 times in 16 Events) it is hard to argue the process. We could go on points like Australia does to pick the team, but on paper they had a better team this year, yet the US Team won. Our process has been controversial, but it has also worked, 10 times.

Also, so many people complain that World Team Selection and the "Politics" involved have led to the demise of ski racing. Catering to events that benefit World Team Members/Hopefuls is what hurts the sport more than a controversial selection process.

There were a lot of people that hadn't raced in a few years that came out at Parker for the US Open a couple weeks back. Hopefully that trend will continue next year and people will give the sport a try again.

 

[schiadart73]

I too have been involved in the fund raising, raffles,sponsorships etc. but in my opinion I would have rather been raising money and writing my own checks to save the sport in the US. It would be nice to have prize money for Catalina or see 100+ boat lined up at Boulder Beach for the 50 & 75. Bring back the club involvement, Invitationals, Clear Lake marathon weekends with circles and region races with the true nationals.

 

[schiadart73]

I don't agree 100% that big dough and big boats clobbered ski racing.
#1-First and foremost, there aren't any boat and ski clubs left. What started & bolstered our sport the MOST was a bunch of families who had the common interest of boating then got together on weekends and formed some sort of club. From these clubs waterski competition arose. The NWSRA was formed and the respective clubs then hosted their sanctioned race which generated funds for them to host meetings, fun outings, Christmas events, etc. Somewhere along the line these clubs started to dwindle (perhaps because of watersports evolution, see #2) and the respective NWSRA Regions took over the racing. This basically ended growth as we knew it.
#2-Second, watersports has evolved like snow sports. Wakeboarding (like snowboarding) is now in the forefront. It's not a bad thing, but it is the real deal. On any given day, families can tune into their media and see these evolving watersports that do not include waterskiing. Key word here is exposure; something we cannot duplicate at our level.
#3- Costs, big boats and superteams (big dollars). I understand the US Open hosted the largest boat turn-out in a long time; and everyone had a V-bottom. As for the superteams, any competition has them: Indycar, NFL, even the Olympics. Competition thrives on this, and frankly our sport depends on their existance. However, everyone can be beaten; no one is immune to defeat. If a boat owner feels he/she is not competitive, run slower classes or even the MPH limiting class (which is a blast to say the least).
Conclusion- We need more grass roots events that we as racers need to talk up. Outside of the existing racing families generation growths, this is the only effective way I can see to grow our sport.

Enough of my soapbox, there ya have it.

Denny, all valid points and I agree, they should adapt to more of the boat classes like Australia. My only argument is clubs were formed by families and the average family like mine could not afford the big boats, hence the family boat was not used and we all skied behind somebody else.I was a member of the LBB&SC, Marina B & SC and Orange Co. B & SC which lasted maybe 2 years and they all dropped from the Association in the early 80's. The Invitationals used to be the funnest races of the year but you had to be a club member to race.

 

[racerden]

Denny, all valid points and I agree, they should adapt to more of the boat classes like Australia. My only argument is clubs were formed by families and the average family like mine could not afford the big boats, hence the family boat was not used and we all skied behind somebody else.I was a member of the LBB&SC, Marina B & SC and Orange Co. B & SC which lasted maybe 2 years and they all dropped from the Association in the early 80's. The Invitationals used to be the funnest races of the year but you had to be a club member to race.

I was Pasadena Speedboat guy...man, that was some fun. And yup, the invitationals were a blast. Remember the Driver Ski Race? That wasn't fun at all but you said no, you'd loose you team..or worse
________
Babe Movie

 

[AFUEL7067]

LBBSC Club of Champions :thumbsup

 

[RiverDave]

I make it no secret that I know very little about the History of Ski Racing, etc.. etc..

I know a few people that were (and some are coming back) involved with ski racing at one time. Whenever I ask them why did ski racing diminish, or more to the point why did they themselves stop participating (just getting to the route of the problem) they always grumble the world "politics."

When I question what about the politics, or even what politics.. The text book answer is always given regardless of who I ask. "You wouldn't understand your not a ski racer."

I was telling mr. Anderson about this yesterday, and the conclusion that I have come too over the years is that some people bitch, because they like to bitch.. That's the end of that story.

You may have seen on this website people joke towards me saying "It's not rocket science" as I'm often accused of over simplifying a complicated situation, and that's my tag line damn near everytime.. LOL

I don't think this is that hard of a problem to figure out though? Ski racing is fledgeling, those in charge of it would most certainly have to be willing to accept fresh ideas, or change or face extinction.

So back to THE INITIAL QUESTION OF THE THREAD what would you do to bring it back? (Not what caused it's decline)


So I'll ask it again? To all the old timers that don't participate because of this reason or that.. I'll put it flat. What would YOU do to increase participation at ski race events in the U.S. I do not care about what has transpired in the past.. PART 2 of that question. If those changes were made, would YOU come back and participate again?

From what little I know of the subject, it sounds to me like a couple of people should put aside their differences, swallow some ego, and do what is best for SKI RACING IN THE US, and not what is necesarily better for themselves.

I for one do not believe that big dollars, and big boats killed anything. As with anything, you can break it into different classes. Sometimes a lower class, can actually be more competitive / fun then say the "top dog" class. This is no different the ANY type of racing. More often then not the slower classes / limited classes have more participation, and are A LOT more competitve / team work orientated, then an open class.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

Current suggestions to bring back Ski Racing from this thread. If you edit out all the chatter, these are the current suggestions from everyone in this thread.

Bring back the flatbottoms to bring the cost down. I personally retired because there was too many $60,000 boats with $5,000 drivers, and that was in 1985.

With the Puddingstone events and the US Open, hopefully the focus can get back to getting new people in the sport and people who quit years ago.

I think its great that there is a grass roots effort to get things going again...

Key word here is exposure...

#3- Costs, big boats and superteams (big dollars). I understand the US Open hosted the largest boat turn-out in a long time; and everyone had a V-bottom. As for the superteams, any competition has them: Indycar, NFL, even the Olympics. Competition thrives on this, and frankly our sport depends on their existance. However, everyone can be beaten; no one is immune to defeat. If a boat owner feels he/she is not competitive, run slower classes or even the MPH limiting class (which is a blast to say the least).
Conclusion- We need more grass roots events that we as racers need to talk up. Outside of the existing racing families generation growths, this is the only effective way I can see to grow our sport.

Enough of my soapbox, there ya have it.

It would be nice to have prize money for Catalina or see 100+ boat lined up at Boulder Beach for the 50 & 75. Bring back the club involvement, Invitationals, Clear Lake marathon weekends with circles and region races with the true nationals.

Denny, all valid points and I agree, they should adapt to more of the boat classes like Australia.

All seem to be good suggestions so far. What else do we have? Seems the common theme would be more grass roots events/racing, and more "COMPETITIVE" classes on real world budgets, with real world boats..

Any other ideas? or comments on the current suggestions?

RD

 

[AFUEL7067]

Dave efforts like yours and Anderson are a step in the right direction. also consider a boat and ski club, all will agree clubs are a pain, but in the day the four main clubs made it happen. More good came out of the clubs than bad ........ not to mention epic trips to Mammoth and Glamis etc....

 

[Skyskier]

IF they brought back the flat bottoms I know two, really OLD, guy's that would have at least 3 teams in place for the 2010 season :thumbsup
I'd also like to see a 62 & older class

 

[skifaster]

IF they brought back the flat bottoms I know two, really OLD, guy's that would have at least 3 teams in place for the 2010 season :thumbsup
I'd also like to see a 62 & older class

Just to be clear, the Flatbottom class was added back to the schedule for the US Open in Parker this year and not one boat showed up. Understandable given the lack of publicity, but with the event being held at Parker it was disappointing that none showed up. I am sure the class will be on the schedule for next year and hopefully it will happen.

There have been several suggestions for a 60 & over class of some sorts for next years US Open. With the popularity of the 51 & Over at this years US Open, I think the classes could be re-arranged to make that happen.

 

[Firecracker]

So we want to keep the 10 or so dogs happy and not have 50 or 60 of us mutts get back into the sport. If they put the money they spend on the worlds back into US racing I guarantee the sport would grow. Don't get me wrong, I have been a world team member and still have family and good friends that race. I think the Puddingstone weekend and opening up the nationals was a great start.

If it wasn't for those big dogs there would be NO ski racing. They are the only ones who donate the big $$$ to help us keep the sport around, and at least break even on events.

Classes like the 60 mph class, and the new Formula 3 class coming around will help. Because there are limitations in those classes, and it is more affordable to race those classes.

There had to be 2 heats of skiers in the 60 mph class at the Open. And there is talk of adding hte F3 class to the next worlds. That give everyone a competitive edge in the sport. A first year skier can come out and beat the most expereinced skier in the 60 mph class. It's strictly based on time.

 

[Firecracker]

Just to be clear, the Flatbottom class was added back to the schedule for the US Open in Parker this year and not one boat showed up. Understandable given the lack of publicity, but with the event being held at Parker it was disappointing that none showed up. I am sure the class will be on the schedule for next year and hopefully it will happen.

There have been several suggestions for a 60 & over class of some sorts for next years US Open. With the popularity of the 51 & Over at this years US Open, I think the classes could be re-arranged to make that happen.

The unfortunate fact about this year is two boats that would have showed were unable to attend due to the fact taht the kilos were the same weekend in Oregon. I know Rankin misses racing it...

 

[Firecracker]

I make it no secret that I know very little about the History of Ski Racing, etc.. etc..

I know a few people that were (and some are coming back) involved with ski racing at one time. Whenever I ask them why did ski racing diminish, or more to the point why did they themselves stop participating (just getting to the route of the problem) they always grumble the world "politics."

When I question what about the politics, or even what politics.. The text book answer is always given regardless of who I ask. "You wouldn't understand your not a ski racer."

I'd like to comment on this as well. I started racing in 2003, and this year is the first time I've really started to feel accepted in the ski racing world. As I've talked to some people that have been in it a long time, they say you have to prove yourself before you are welcome. Sadly I do feel that is not far from the truth.

Katelin and her family, Bemo, Mike King, Gary Heinbuch, and Kelly Ireland all played a big part of me staying around because they were always nice, and welcoming. If it wasn't for them and a select few others I would not have stayed.

But I do say this, with the grassroots races I have noticed more people opening up to the new skiers and this is great. It's not going to drive them away because we're all assholes...

 

[Crazyhippy]

Just to be clear, the Flatbottom class was added back to the schedule for the US Open in Parker this year and not one boat showed up. Understandable given the lack of publicity, but with the event being held at Parker it was disappointing that none showed up. I am sure the class will be on the schedule for next year and hopefully it will happen.

There have been several suggestions for a 60 & over class of some sorts for next years US Open. With the popularity of the 51 & Over at this years US Open, I think the classes could be re-arranged to make that happen.

There was one flatty (ss/ps boat)in the pits. He claimed to have an observers seat ready to go as well...

I'm planning (and the wife has already approved) to race a full season next year as a Novice. It's not a cheap sport by any means, as i'm anticipating 3-4K in competition costs (hotels, fuel in boat and truck, entry fees, etc) for the season, not including Training fuel, equipment (wetsuit, lifelines for driver and observer, helmets, ropes, skis, goggles, boat, etc), or boat maintenence/repair.

I'm having trouble finding a willing victim to sit facing backwards @ 70ish. The wife will drive (for training at least), and we've been kidnapping her nieces (8 and 11) to observe. They are ok into the mid 50's, but freak out faster than that.

I'd like to see more relaxing circle type days. The bay area has 3-4 more a year than so-cal. Clearlake or the Delta is just too far to drive from Phoenix.

 

[Crazyhippy]

But I do say this, with the grassroots races I have noticed more people opening up to the new skiers and this is great. It's not going to drive them away because we're all assholes...

@ the open, i saw a group of 12 & under boys go up to Todd Haig and inform him that they planned on beating them @ Catalina next year. Todd responded w/ something along the lines of "I better up my training regiment if i'm going up against you guys..."

I've been around alot of sports, and NEVER seen someone @ the pinnacle of the sport be that approachable and friendly:thumbsup

 

[red ant]

I personally think all the response to the ski racing threads on this forum is fantastic for the sport. Thank You to all. I am just a parent and spectator in the sport. That being said...the atmosphere is changing for the better. The grassroots races are great events. The US Open was a lot more fun this year. Great weather. great venue, awesome racing. Just remember, it takes a tremendous amount of work by a few people to put this all together. Lets not forget all the donations that people make. Not just money either. The big dogs really do help finance the sport. Like it or not-it is a fact these days.

Yes, to race open classes, and be competitive a high dollar boat is needed. All other classes can be raced with a lot less expensive boat. No, this is not the least expensive sport to be involved in. Boats are money pits, we all know this and still love them. Check out age class, novice, intermediate, 60 mph f2 and hopefully soon to come f3. I believe there is a class for everyone . Come have some fun.

 

[AFUEL7067]

Firecracker they have to open up they dont have a choice other than to play by themselfs lol. Adding a 60 and over and a FB class wont do much for the sport.And since we are being honest try having a grass roots race at mead and see who shows wont be many.It is a known fact if you want to draw participants to a ski race there are only three venues used in recent years that work puddingstone. parker and catalina. as far a being accepted I always felt welcome and enjoyed every minute of it .The few big dogs as they are being called not by me are paying for what they screwed up.... When this grass roots racing was tried in the late 80s the boat owners failed the system by not participating because of wear and tear on their equipment ... and egos... Guys like Ron Wilson Bob Stark Bill Van Meter Gary Steele are what you need to revive this sport guys who lived and breathed ski racing not only where they racers they were leaders.... This forum is a good start ........

 

[hobo]

Circle races will bring people back.
Not everybody can ski a marathon.Years ago when they killed the circles that took away from the new blood coming in. Clubs had to bid for a ski race.There were 5 cirlcles and more than 5 clubs. Long Beach(still here), Los Angeles(still here),Pasadena,Pomona,San Diego(still here), Desert ,just from what I remember. These clubs organized these races and did a great job.

Then a small group went to the National body and said " We don't need the clubs anymore we can run them " :thumbsdown That was the begining of the end. New families did not want to join club and the clubs folded or had very few that are members.

 

[obnoxious001]

This forum is a good start ........

There you have it.

Actually,, if a few more groups similar to RDP(or lets think in terms of regional ski clubs) started getting interested, it would go a long way towards helping ski racing. I know of one particular RDP member who attended Puddingstone for only 2 hours and decided to buy a ski race boat, even though he was not participating there.

My take on the whole thing, when I was a kid (in the Pasadena club), the sport was extremely family oriented. The family ski boats were the race boats. No one had heard of wakeboarding or jet skis, everyone on the water was a water skier.

I ran a turbo Schiada for a number of years. Honestly, it would have been completely out of my budget had I not been able to trade labor for some parts,, and do all my own work on the boat. I had a great (although smaller than the big guys) group of skiers and friends, even though I needed them to help with the cost of the race gas.

The Grassroots deal is really great. I kind of think ski racing as a whole needs to concentrate on things to attract new skiers,, even offering free lessons. Should be able to get some free press in local newspapers prior to events at various locations. I personally pulled up 3 new skiers in just a few weeks time of running my "training" boat at Puddinstone, worked with a couple of others that are not quite there yet.

Oh yes,, I am one of the guys who told RD that politics were one of the main reasons I got away from ski racing. I still love it, and have publicly offered to help anyone who shows an interest.

 

[Halvecto]

My .02 cents:

Facilitate a great, clean, fun family atmosphere! Which sounds like what the old ski clubs were about. Highlight the slower, young age class brackets and encourage all the boats to offer to pull and participate at any level at all. Get families started early, when speed is not a major factor. There are some great folks involved. The Meltons and Alexanders (boat #51 & 52) were very helpful and generous. The toddler exhibition and 0-12 classes were great fun. As has been stated, it has usually been a family or an individual that took an interest in the sport and was willing to help anyone give it a go. I have four kids, three of whom have been in a race this year (11,13,15 yrs. old). I ski a bit also, but primarily to set the example for them (read slow poke). I thought Andy Anderson and others did a great job of this at the US Open and put on some awesome big dog races as well!

The main reason I have pushed for our involvement is because it is one of the few hobbies that allows all of us to enjoy something together. I get to appease my gear head and speed interest, my kids get to be competitive and do something that none of their friends do, and we do it all together in a small confined area called a boat. Having your kid jump in the boat after a race, give them a hug or high five makes a memory for a lifetime. Like a long running race, it is the finishing of the task that initially is as valuable as what place they came in. I realize that will probably change. But this has a unique and different impact in my view than watching them play a sport where I am a coach or fan (we are very involved in other sports including soccer, tennis, football, basketball, etc.).

I would like to simply make these occasional weekends a priority for family time. It is a high dose of unique time together that incorporates teaching them about pushing themselves beyond where they think they can go. What other sport allows a young kid to get to the point of wanting to stop, but because they can trust Dad or Mom, pushes them to continue? Most young kids will not go beyond the first feeling of discomfort, let alone pain. To watch them have a real sense of accomplishment after skiing hard for 10-25 minutes is very neat.

We are not fast. But who cares! In fact quite the opposite, our boat is the "family truckster" of Halletts and we are the slowest boat out there (working on that It was very cool to come in and tell my son he skied all out, he "out-skied" the boat). When the weekend is done, stories galore.

For the record; if you want to give it a try in a race, and want to be sure not to be pulled on your head, look us up!

 

[Oz Dude]

My $0.02 from what I've observed down here.

In the 70's and 80's ski racing in Oz was, well, pretty big. 400+ teams would show up for the Sydney Bridge to Bridge race, and probably a 1/4 of those "teams" were there for the once a year run that they could then tell all their mates about - that they ran, and finished (hopefully) "The Bridge".

EVeryone I have ever known that has waterskiing in their blood has either done it, or their father (or mother) did it, or they want to do it....and now comes the catch...

It all fell apart becasue of the dreaded "I" - Insurance. As popular and as important as the Bridge to Bridge race is for Aussies, it got canned one year because they couldn't get race coverage. And that's what it all comes down to people. As the regulations and the bullshit level rises, the membership and interest in the sport drops.

I am amazed at the work put in by the people who run most of the associations here, mainly because most of them are either retired, or not far off it. They do it because they love the sport. It's certainly not for the money! You only have to listen to the announcer at any event, the part where they are begging for volunteers, to realise one of the other reasons why the sport is in trouble. We all want to have fun but we don't want to spend hours "working" when everyone else is having fun, especially when it means that we will most likely get yelled at by unhappy competitors over someone doing something somewhere, none of which is in my direct control but go ahead and yell till you feel better. I'll be ok after 50hours of therapy.

So, RD, back to your question - what would it take?? Grass roots clubs and getting families back into it. With so many competing interests for kids these days, if you want to commit ot the sport you have to get them interested in it or you can forget it. Without the support of the next generation, the current one will wither on the vine.

A local club to me, Cliftonville, is a shining example of what really IS possible if you apply yourself. Membership is $25pa. A day's racing entry fee for the whole family is $90 and you basically run what ya brung. There is no BS, no politics, and no getting away with crap. You want insurance, pay for your own. You get hurt, make sure you have personal cover. That's the easy part.

Watching how this group interacts and how much the kids are into it is what makes it special. There are 10-12 races per event and they have a short and a long course. Kids as young as 5 race, as do teenagers, adults, seniors, twin turbo go fast boats, and 60mph novices.

I think one of their sponsors put it aptly at last year's trophy presentation day - "the best thing about coming here is that you don't have to worry if you don't have a chromed diff on your car" ie there are no pretences, no prizes for who has the most money, but everyone helps everyone else. I watch skiers hop on behind 3 different boats in any given day sepending on who's got what available. Break a boat? No problem, someone else will have a ride available somewhere. Wanna start something? Leave - you don't need to bring everyone else down with your presious crap.

I was at one event last year and there were probably 12 BBQ's going along the foreshore. Of those 12, I got offered anything from a sausage to chicken skewers and a plate of trimmings from about 8 of em. I wasn't even competing there, just out taking some photos.

The best of the best of all of it though? Not once at any of their events have I heard a kid of any age utter those fateful words "I'm bored".

Back to the big picture - events like The Bridge are now finally seeing increases in numbers year upon year. Popularity is returning to the sport as more and more people make their way into it, or back into it. As new boats get older, replacements are being bought and so the old one gets sold off to another team. If they already had a boat, it goes on to someone else, andso on. There will be a continual growth from that alone BUT it wouldn't happen if we only had our Classic River Races (ie marathons). Nope.

Without the clubs all over the country, people would not pay thousands of dollars in insurance, much less 2 helmets, 2 jackets, 2 firesuits, assorted flares, sheets, kits, and other safety gear, plus the cost of scrutineering via replacement of wearable parts (irrespective of if they're worn or not), plus, plus, plus. If you want to just enter a boat and pay for the driver and observer in any of the unrestricted classes, be prepared to throw away about $4K even if you have the jackets, etc. And then be prepared to throw away another $20K travelling to the events, accommodation, entry fees, fuel, and that's just for the Classics. If people couldn't put all of that in a "justified expense" column they wouldn't do it. Club racing gives them the reason to sign off on it.

So, I think you guys need to look at the issue and break it down:
- Find a way to lower insurance costs (limiting liability, carrying personal insurance, etc)
- Get some (or all) of these old clubs back out of mothballs
- Get everyone to start volunteering their time so this can happen - 2 hours form everyone involved in a round robin system would be a good start
- Don't yell at the volunteers - they're only doing what they're supposed to do and they have feelings as well
- Get the kids interested and make it fmaily friendly
- Get kid classes firmly established and bring in a couple of speed restricted classes with limited entry costs. 60mph and 70mph class have been great for Oz but they've dropped the ball a little bit cause tyhey're not following up on how to bring more people into these classes which leads to:
- Do some basic marketing - you all go to lay around at your favourite spot on the river with 500 other people so start talking to people and hand out flyers
- Run more Fun Days and have people on hand to help beginners
- Get a website setup where people with a boat can advertise for skiers and vica versa. Victorian Ski Racing does it here and people from all over Oz use the resource. It's a pity that the Austrlaian Waterski Racing Federation don't put some money into this idea and have someone run a dedicated marketplace for competitors and craft.

Basically it all comes down to effort, and in this day and age, everyone "wants" but nobody "gives". If everyone could give a little, then amazing things would happen...

I need a lay down :blah:

Oz

 

[hobo]

I forgot the Marina Boat and ski club sorry.
If you look at the lakes and rivers,there are not very many waterskiers. Mostly wakeboards.

The clubs brought help and family support.Take away the clubs involvement and you take away the family and helpers.

 

[hobo]

I disagree with firecracker. "without the big dogs":thumbsdown BULLPUCKY.
If it wasn't for the people to help you would not have ski racing. If you look back at the money thrown at ski racing," The Big Dogs" will open their wallet and tell you how to run things, ask them for help and there to busy.

 

[River Lynchmob]

@ the open, i saw a group of 12 & under boys go up to Todd Haig and inform him that they planned on beating them @ Catalina next year. Todd responded w/ something along the lines of "I better up my training regiment if i'm going up against you guys..."

I've been around alot of sports, and NEVER seen someone @ the pinnacle of the sport be that approachable and friendly:thumbsup

That is Todd to a T...I have known his since he was about 7 years old and he is a great ambasidor for the sport. He is always approachable and friendly to anyone who approaches him. He was non stop at the Puddingstone Grassroots day as well. He and Andy (along with mnay others) really made that a HUGE step in the right direction. It is always an invaluable asset to have a top dog be that approachable and genuinely helpful to new faces.

 

[SKIA36]

That is Todd to a T...I have known his since he was about 7 years old and he is a great ambasidor for the sport. He is always approachable and friendly to anyone who approaches him. He was non stop at the Puddingstone Grassroots day as well. He and Andy (along with mnay others) really made that a HUGE step in the right direction. It is always an invaluable asset to have a top dog be that approachable and genuinely helpful to new faces.

x2

 

[stokerwhore]

x3

 

[RiverDave]

Firecracker they have to open up they dont have a choice other than to play by themselfs lol. Adding a 60 and over and a FB class wont do much for the sport.And since we are being honest try having a grass roots race at mead and see who shows wont be many.It is a known fact if you want to draw participants to a ski race there are only three venues used in recent years that work puddingstone. parker and catalina. as far a being accepted I always felt welcome and enjoyed every minute of it .The few big dogs as they are being called not by me are paying for what they screwed up.... When this grass roots racing was tried in the late 80s the boat owners failed the system by not participating because of wear and tear on their equipment ... and egos... Guys like Ron Wilson Bob Stark Bill Van Meter Gary Steele are what you need to revive this sport guys who lived and breathed ski racing not only where they racers they were leaders.... This forum is a good start ........

AFuel, in this thread, lets just stick to what it takes to bring it back..

If ya like you or I can start another thread on what originally took it down.. I'm just trying not to get sidetracked.

The logic being simple. Solicit opinions / ideas on what works. People then say "If this then / that" I.E. If the flatbottom class was brought back, the I WOULD....

Then I'll campaign to the powers that be to make said changes. If changes are successfull, then I will be calling back upon the "If this then that" crowd.. (followin me)

Then you have more people involved. Once you have a few more, then it's like anything else in life. People bring people and it multiplies from there.

I think if there were roughly twice as many boats / spectators at puddingstone, then ski racing would on it's way back up. Because inevitably some wakeboard kid is gonna look at that, and say.. I wanna try that!

RD

 

[Skyskier]

AFuel, in this thread, lets just stick to what it takes to bring it back..

If ya like you or I can start another thread on what originally took it down.. I'm just trying not to get sidetracked.

The logic being simple. Solicit opinions / ideas on what works. People then say "If this then / that" I.E. If the flatbottom class was brought back, the I WOULD....

Then I'll campaign to the powers that be to make said changes. If changes are successfull, then I will be calling back upon the "If this then that" crowd.. (followin me)

Then you have more people involved. Once you have a few more, then it's like anything else in life. People bring people and it multiplies from there.

I think if there were roughly twice as many boats / spectators at puddingstone, then ski racing would on it's way back up. Because inevitably some wakeboard kid is gonna look at that, and say.. I wanna try that!

RD

There's a flat bottom regatta every thanksgiving at the bluewater, I've been going for the past 5 years an every year gets more boats showing up. I've recognized a few as "ski race rigs" from back in my day. Last year there were a couple of guy's that came from Texas to run, an 1 guy came all the way from Florida. These guy's just wanna race thier flat bottoms, PERIOD :thumbsup.................I'd be willing to bet if somebody from the ski race assoc. showed up an asked these guy's how many would be willing to show up at the ski races, WITH A HOTBOAT class, there'd be more than a few that would pull skiers as well.

 

[RiverDave]

There's a flat bottom regatta every thanksgiving at the bluewater, I've been going for the past 5 years an every year gets more boats showing up. I've recognized a few as "ski race rigs" from back in my day. Last year there were a couple of guy's that came from Texas to run, an 1 guy came all the way from Florida. These guy's just wanna race thier flat bottoms, PERIOD :thumbsup.................I'd be willing to bet if somebody from the ski race assoc. showed up an asked these guy's how many would be willing to show up at the ski races, WITH A HOTBOAT class, there'd be more than a few that would pull skiers as well.

Well when and where? I'll drag someone from the NWRSA with me to ask em.

RD

 

[stokerwhore]

the guy from florida had a GN boat but hey any port in a storm:thumbsup

 

[Skyskier]

Well when and where? I'll drag someone from the NWRSA with me to ask em.

RD

Friday & Saturday of thanksgiving weekend, and Ross put's on the spring regatta at the bluewater sometime in April, same dealio, flat bottom regatta. If you want to give Ross Wallach a call, I KNOW he'd be happy to assist in ANYTHING he could do to further promote boat racing of ALL kinds. He is also the promoter for the Parker 300 that is running this weekend
Ross Wallach (310) 318 4012

 

[RiverDave]

I have Ross's e-mail. He does seem like a good guy giving everything he's got to promote the sport of hotboat racing.

So it would seem, that perhaps bringing back some old classes, (which according to skifaster has already been done) then working with a race coordinator to get some of their current participants involved might be a viable plan to at least get some new (or rather old), blood back into it.. At least from a boat perspective.

RD

 

[ocphoto]

I think if there were roughly twice as many boats / spectators at puddingstone, then ski racing would on it's way back up. Because inevitably some wakeboard kid is gonna look at that, and say.. I wanna try that!

RD[/QUOTE]

Puddingstone was a great time it got my son "a Wakebaord Kid" to say "I want to give this a try." The support he got from skiers, drivers, and observers to get him gear, a boat, and an observer just about 15 minutes before the race started was unbelievable. He got a big DNF but he now wants to race all next year. We will be practcing with him this weekend after the Parker 300.
Thanks to all involved in putting the Grassroots event together and all that worked with my son on his first ski attempt!

 

[schiadart73]

There's a flat bottom regatta every thanksgiving at the bluewater, I've been going for the past 5 years an every year gets more boats showing up. I've recognized a few as "ski race rigs" from back in my day. Last year there were a couple of guy's that came from Texas to run, an 1 guy came all the way from Florida. These guy's just wanna race thier flat bottoms, PERIOD :thumbsup.................I'd be willing to bet if somebody from the ski race assoc. showed up an asked these guy's how many would be willing to show up at the ski races, WITH A HOTBOAT class, there'd be more than a few that would pull skiers as well.

Time to jump back in!
Back in the day we used to put on exhibitions at Marine Stadium during the circle races, in fact LBB & SC used to have their own race weekend for boat races at the Stadium. Not to be negative but again we could not run the big boats and put on a show. We also used to put on an exhibition at the Unlimiteds in San Diego. I believe Nor-Cal B & SC used to do the same.
They should have a couple of teams go to Bluewater Thanksgiving weekend and ask for 15 minutes of coarse time to put on an exhibition.

 

[Crazyhippy]

Time to jump back in!
Back in the day we used to put on exhibitions at Marine Stadium during the circle races, in fact LBB & SC used to have their own race weekend for boat races at the Stadium. Not to be negative but again we could not run the big boats and put on a show. We also used to put on an exhibition at the Unlimiteds in San Diego. I believe Nor-Cal B & SC used to do the same.
They should have a couple of teams go to Bluewater Thanksgiving weekend and ask for 15 minutes of coarse time to put on an exhibition.

I was thinking the same thing, some "filler" in the drags, circles, jetski races, etc. Hell maybe even the offshore stuff pre Catalina:thumbsup:champagne:

Beyond that, the Needles V-drive thing every year has quite a few "K" boats that dont see the race track, but might be willing to tow skiers...

I'd say set up a relay to ski Desert Storm, but i'm afraid someone would get run over:bash:

 

[Skyskier]

Time to jump back in!
Back in the day we used to put on exhibitions at Marine Stadium during the circle races, in fact LBB & SC used to have their own race weekend for boat races at the Stadium. Not to be negative but again we could not run the big boats and put on a show. We also used to put on an exhibition at the Unlimiteds in San Diego. I believe Nor-Cal B & SC used to do the same.
They should have a couple of teams go to Bluewater Thanksgiving weekend and ask for 15 minutes of coarse time to put on an exhibition.

I skied the invitationals at the stadium & the gold cup races in San Diego 1965 & 66, & 67..............were you there then ? We were also in the LBB&SC

 

[RiverDave]

I was thinking the same thing, some "filler" in the drags, circles, jetski races, etc. Hell maybe even the offshore stuff pre Catalina:thumbsup:champagne:

Beyond that, the Needles V-drive thing every year has quite a few "K" boats that dont see the race track, but might be willing to tow skiers...

I'd say set up a relay to ski Desert Storm, but i'm afraid someone would get run over:bash:

Most the races listed are already on such a tight timeline that they don't have time for "filler."

I do think though that maybe they'd consider ditching the jet ski races in favor of flatbottoms pulling skiers though. You can watch teh beach empty out during the jetski races.. LOL

RD

 

[racerden]

NWSRA just sent a questionare to every one about what we would like to see in ski racing (which is awesome). One of the questions asked if we would like to see more L.A. based one day events. The Grass Roots program had positive returns for the initial 2 events. My suggestion is to stick with what's working; Have more L.A. based fun events, ensure exceptional NWSRA leadership in 2010, require all active Region 2 members attend at least one event (for exposure reasoning), then tweak things as necessary.
Other than this Grass Roots event concept, I can't see what other realistic choice we have.
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