We're having a property line dispute

[sprintcvx]

Our house is just over 1 acre of propriety that we bought over 30 years ago. Owner neighbor died a few years back and the family sold it to a flipper for $345k. The flipper just put a cubic ton of money into a remodel, including a ton of landscaping and a new fence, that we come to find out, it's all on our propriety. The flipper is very vague about the survey and there is no "stake" because of the new asphalt and wants to know if we want - #1 They pay us a little portion then we adjust the boundary line to match the new fence #2 - Remove the fence and adjust the boundary line to match the new survey #3 - Leave the fence and just let the new owners know. It's 4-6K sq ft and would take our property below the acre line. Entrance to their property is basically our property and the line is 10 feet from the corner of their garage( there's 35 ft. set backs). There has been more than one sub upset; stories within themselves. Just listed for $2.5 MIL. Enough red flags have been raised for us to wonder - What other options do we have and what should our next steps be to protect our property?
I know there's quite a few RE people on this board and wondering what our options were.

 

[rmarion]

I don't know shit..

just a Google search...

Neighbor Built Fence Over the Property Line. Does He Now Own That Land?

The fact that your neighbors are not actively "using" the portion of your land behind their fence would not stop them from asserting an ownership claim based on adve

www.nolo.com

 

[Sandlord]

Another option would be to install a fence on the property line. Then have his fence torn down

 

[rrrr]

Don't draw conclusions from a Google search. Contact an attorney that specializes in real estate issues.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Don’t sign a damn thing and go see a real estate attorney asap.

 

[coolchange]

Get your property line settled to your line. Or there will always be a problem. Who the fuck just makes up shit?

 

[Singleton]

Don’t sign a damn thing and go see a real estate attorney asap.

This. He must likely built the fence knowing the lines, but knew his property would be under the acre limit. Get the correct survey from the city and don’t sign or pay anything. Make sure selling agent is aware of dispute as well.

 

[530RL]

I’d tell them than they need to move the stuff to their property. Have a surveyor come out on your dime and set the appropriate property pins. The surveyor will give you a survey pointing out the property line violations.

Send them a certified letter with new survey and violations so that they must disclose to any buyer. If the flipper is a dick about it, file a lis pendens outlining the property dispute with the survey attached. A title company will most likely not choose to insure over that making a sale of the property very difficult.

I hate sloppy work where people just assume they can fuck up and make it your problem.

Lastly remember the most important axiom in life when it comes to property disputes……”no good deed goes unpunished”. He fucked up, it is not your job to “work” it out with him, it is his job to do it right. He is not going to be your neighbor, the new owner is. Settle you dispute with this flipper so you can have a good relationship with the new neighbor.

 

[fishing fool]

#2 - Remove the fence and adjust the boundary line to match the new survey

What else to you need???

 

[MonkeyButt70]

#2 - Remove the fence and adjust the boundary line to match the new survey

What else to you need???

This 100%. Just move it and be done.

 

[530RL]

#2 - Remove the fence and adjust the boundary line to match the new survey

What else to you need???

This 100%. Just move it and be done.

If I understand the original post, The new entrance if adjusted and given to the neighbor may now make the OP’s property in violation of set backs.

Also, his property may require one acre minimum. If the entrance is given to the neighbor he may now be in violation of that?

 

[rivrrts429]

Go to a lawyer and let him/her handle it. It’s not your job to find a solution for the flipper.

 

[fishing fool]

If I understand the original post, The new entrance if adjusted and given to the neighbor may now make the OP’s property in violation of set backs.

Also, his property may require one acre minimum. If the entrance is given to the neighbor he may now be in violation of that?

I understand now. Make new owner pay for survey and then move fence to there. The city will let them both know where the property line is.

 

[Joker]

We’ve got the same issue but they built on only 1’ of our property line. My issue is paying 7k for a survey.

 

[Go-Fly]

There's no such thing as a property line dispute once the survey is completed. The rest can be solved with simple conversations.

 

[RichL]

Don't draw conclusions from a Google search. Contact an attorney that specializes in real estate issues.

Don’t sign a damn thing and go see a real estate attorney asap.

Get your property line settled to your line. Or there will always be a problem. Who the fuck just makes up shit?

^^^This^^^

Even if you don't have the entire property surveyed, have a surveyor locate the corner pins along the line in question. If you don't address this now it will come back to bite you later. We all make mistakes but it sounds like the flipper is trying to make his screw up your problem.

 

[530RL]

We’ve got the same issue but they built on only 1’ of our property line. My issue is paying 7k for a survey.

That is crazy. I can get one done for a typical metes and bounds lot for under a thousand bucks.

If it is a property in a subdivision with platted lots 350 bucks.

 

[Gramps]

He needs to do a do over on the correct property line. Nothing less nor different. That way you avoid any issues in the years ahead

 

[evantwheeler]

I entered escrow on a house with a fence line that did not match the line or shape of the recorded plot plan. I questioned the seller and also the neighbor whose property i believe the fence encroached onto, no body thought anything of it. I required a survey of lot corners and string line of the property line as a contingency. The fence was/is 3’ onto neighbors property, giving the corner of my garage an ~2.5’ setback from the actual property line. My title company could not provide me the legal codes that protected me, but they said that because the fenceline had not been disputed in a number of years (it was either 15 or 25), that i could not be forced to move the fence. I was very uneasy and took the risk. I bought the neighboring property 2 months ago so i never have to deal with the fence line issue with anyone but the county when i go to do a lot line adjustment someday. I found out the real issue, and one i was not protected from, is if my house burned, i couldnt rebuild on the same foundation because it encroaches into the current setbacks which were NOT in place when the house was built.

Make the flipper move the fence. He should pay for the survey, he should have done so prior to putting up the fence.

 

[530RL]

The leverage the OP has is the flipper needs or wants to sell the house.

He should use that to his advantage on how to avoid costs and expenses in this dispute.

 

[evantwheeler]

4-6k sq ft is over 10% of the size of your lot. Fu*k no, do not let this slide.

 

[evantwheeler]

How much work does one need to do to take a $345k property and turn it into $2.5 million? Was there a house there previously? Are you on the water?

 

[Go-Fly]

How much work does one need to do to take a $345k property and turn it into $2.5 million? Was there a house there previously? Are you on the water?

Sounds like you just move the fence.

 

[RogerThat99]

I had that happen to a buddy. The neighbor built the fence over the property line. My buddy found out and thought he would deal with it later. Years later, the neighbor put the house up for sale. According to our County, it had been to long and the property lines were adjusted.

Personally, I would move the fence if it drops you under an acre.

 

[Taboma]

One thing I've learned. Don't advise the surveyor there's a dispute. If they think their findings could end up requiring they be justified in court, they'll charge a lot more for a "Legal" Survey.

 

[pronstar]

You paid for it, it’s your property.
And the onus is on you to defend it.

 

[lbhsbz]

Our house is just over 1 acre of propriety that we bought over 30 years ago. Owner neighbor died a few years back and the family sold it to a flipper for $345k. The flipper just put a cubic ton of money into a remodel, including a ton of landscaping and a new fence, that we come to find out, it's all on our propriety. The flipper is very vague about the survey and there is no "stake" because of the new asphalt and wants to know if we want - #1 They pay us a little portion then we adjust the boundary line to match the new fence #2 - Remove the fence and adjust the boundary line to match the new survey #3 - Leave the fence and just let the new owners know. It's 4-6K sq ft and would take our property below the acre line. Entrance to their property is basically our property and the line is 10 feet from the corner of their garage( there's 35 ft. set backs). There has been more than one sub upset; stories within themselves. Just listed for $2.5 MIL. Enough red flags have been raised for us to wonder - What other options do we have and what should our next steps be to protect our property?
I know there's quite a few RE people on this board and wondering what our options were.

Build another fence on your property line and keep his fence

 

[LHC Kirby]

Contact lawyer

Survey

Have them move the fence to proper property line.

Lawyer should have a lien or whatever on the property asap to stop any sale or the problems will be so much worse.

 

[NicPaus]

That is crazy. I can get one done for a typical metes and bounds lot for under a thousand bucks.

If it is a property in a subdivision with platted lots 350 bucks.

I called about 8 companies for So Cal. $4500-6500. It depends if there are other recorded surveys within a few houses. Otherwise it's like $700 additional county fee. I am still waiting on county. Mine was submitted to LA county 6 months ago.

I have heard and been through several property line disputes. Depends on how long they have been using your property. I had title company come out and verify it was off on the property I am working on. They would not do anything neither would the city or LA county. Told me to hire a lawyer. I talked to several surveyors, builders and people in my circle. I tore the fence down and built a wall on the property line. Neighbor threatened to sue me. But the other neighbor mediated for me. Got lucky the other neighbor is a surveyor and does lot split engineering. He surveyed it for us and now we are cool neighbors. It was 14k worth of land I just purchased. If I hired a lawyer most likely the fence would still be where it was and both of us out 8k a piece to fight eachother.

 

[NicPaus]

To the op. I would give him a 3 day notice to move the fence line to the property line or you will remove it. If you have to drive a few posts in on property line and run some wire for now to mark the line. Take pictures of your fence markings on the property line to document it. Do not leave the fence.

 

[Big B Hova]

Drill a bunch of glory holes 🕳 and see what happens. If the new neighbors say stop putting your junk through my fence.... just tell them "it's my fence!"

 

[C_J_J_C]

If you have even a 1% doubt the flipper did it intentionally take the fense down immediately. No negotiations and do not let the fence stay up for even one more day.
He can pay for a survey if he wants the fence put back up.

 

[NicPaus]

I re read what you posted. There new garage is 10' from your property line? Set back is 35'? I would go to the building department and let them know there is a setback violation.

Getting your own survey would help you know exactly where it should be. But will cost you money. If they had a proper survey done and the line is where it should be. I would tell them to give you a copy before going to city. Try and be nice at first. Just make it clear the fence will not be on your property period. Them using your property in any way gives them easement rights over time. Post up a no trespassing sign as well.

 

[Brokeboatin221]

Rent a backhoe and fix it

 

[CLdrinker]

That is crazy. I can get one done for a typical metes and bounds lot for under a thousand bucks.

If it is a property in a subdivision with platted lots 350 bucks.

Shit I can look it up on land vision for free lol

 

[DLC]

I would send a cert letter and also take the fence Down like tomorrow!

make him get a survey !

once it’s sold your going to have a big problem w/ your new neighbor!

Did he gets permits for the improvements?
Call the city make a big stink, get the inspector out there!

If he screwed up a fence line what else did he F up.

Flipper won’t give a crap once it’s sold.

 

[Mcob25rg]

I’m an asshole about property issues, so you might want to skip my opinion, but if it was me, I’d do the survey, give him 24 hours to get it all off your property, then rent a backhoe and put it all on his property. Your ground is worth fighting for, he knew better than to assume anything in this regard, you’re being run over so he can make a HUGE ORIFIT- when he gets the money, you’re toast. If you are really going to give in on this, can I have 4,000 sq ft for free also?

 

[Orange Juice]

There's no such thing as a property line dispute once the survey is completed. The rest can be solved with simple conversations.

Build another fence on your property line and keep his fence

I think he owns the neighbors fence, just has to have it move to the property line,

I suggest splitting the surveyor costs, and have both lots pined and recorded. Then move the fence, and split the cost of having it moved. Shouldn’t be too bad, and the neighbor already bought the material.

 

[boatpi]

Survey will detail it all. I would never settle for under 1 acre. Send a registered letter to flipper advising them of violation and give them 10 days to adjust violation. If you sue, even in small claims, and when you get a judgment, a lien can be placed on the property. That could take months. Best to work it out.

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Drops you under an acre? Nope. Have them move the fence.

 

[FreeBird236]

I think he owns the neighbors fence, just has to have it move to the property line,

I suggest splitting the surveyor costs, and have both lots pined and recorded. Then move the fence, and split the cost of having it moved. Shouldn’t be too bad, and the neighbor already bought the material.

I'm having a problem with the OP incurring any cost, how's he at fault?

 

[Taboma]

Shit I can look it up on land vision for free lol

I have found GIS aerial parcel map imagery (Assuming that's what land vision is) to not necessarily represent accurately. The dimensions transferred from the original parcel maps are accurate, but the imagery it's transposed over hasn't always been shot absolutely perpendicular to the parcel.

 

[Go-Fly]

If you don't know where the corners of your property are, by means of legal enforcement, it's your responsibility to prove the encroaching party wrong. They think they are in the right too. Yes it sounds wrong but that's how life is. You start by talking to your neighbor, "dude, your fence and driveway are on my property". If they say no it's not, then why start a fight you can't win with words. You pay to have your property surveyed. Mark the property line with hot pink locator paint or flags. Now your words have meaning. Start with talking first, move to an attorney if you don't get immediate results. Let a professional take care of it from there. By being an asshole, you can spend a lot of extra money to prove your right anyways. Trust me, I've learned by some very painful lessons.

 

[DC-88]

Get survey asap and have it Recorded. Cost will depend on datum available in proximity to the site . Ours are typically 2-3K for small lots in older hoods. Personally I’d get it marked with multiple 2’ or 3’ offsets onto your side so you can get the fence or wall exactly on your side of the line if it’s long or has multiple angles . Then your take “your” existing fence down and sell boards on offer up to pay toward survey cost or re use them in the correct location. It’s usually better to own walls or fencing rather than split them on the line from my experience. Let the flipper waste money on a lawyer if they go there.

 

[PlumLoco]

A simple trip to city hall should get you detailed picture showing lot lines. It didn't cost us anything and our property had some very unusual aspects to how things were done 120 years ago.
A second thought is, doesn't a person need to get a substantial new fence permitted? That would seem to be an easy way to get it removed.

@sprintcvx , if you are anywhere close to Corona, CA I could probably save you a lot of money on a legit professional survey.

 

[Good Stuff]

Our house is just over 1 acre of propriety that we bought over 30 years ago. Owner neighbor died a few years back and the family sold it to a flipper for $345k. The flipper just put a cubic ton of money into a remodel, including a ton of landscaping and a new fence, that we come to find out, it's all on our propriety. The flipper is very vague about the survey and there is no "stake" because of the new asphalt and wants to know if we want - #1 They pay us a little portion then we adjust the boundary line to match the new fence #2 - Remove the fence and adjust the boundary line to match the new survey #3 - Leave the fence and just let the new owners know. It's 4-6K sq ft and would take our property below the acre line. Entrance to their property is basically our property and the line is 10 feet from the corner of their garage( there's 35 ft. set backs). There has been more than one sub upset; stories within themselves. Just listed for $2.5 MIL. Enough red flags have been raised for us to wonder - What other options do we have and what should our next steps be to protect our property?
I know there's quite a few RE people on this board and wondering what our options were.

I sell Title Insurance for a living. There are so many state law variables to deal with that my answer may not necessarily apply to yours.

Did he move an existing fence or was there an existing fence in that spot? If there was an old fence in that spot it could very well be a title claim and they will pay you for the missing property and record an adjustment so you aren’t paying property tax on property you no longer have.

If you want the land fight for it to be returned. If you don’t want it or necessarily care about it then you need to get paid out for what you would essentially be selling to them and still get a lot adjustment recorded to keep you from legally owning it and paying taxes on it with the county.

I’m sure I can pull you a plat map of your existing lot lines and measurements if you want to shoot me a PM.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Years back at my first house my neighbor and I built a "good neighbor fence" sort of splitting our odd shaped back yards ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when we sold the house we had sort of lost sight of that fact and after escrow that "split became a nightmare . We resolved it amicably but it wasnt simple

 

[angiebaby]

I would send a cert letter and also take the fence Down like tomorrow!

make him get a survey !

once it’s sold your going to have a big problem w/ your new neighbor!

Did he gets permits for the improvements?
Call the city make a big stink, get the inspector out there!

If he screwed up a fence line what else did he F up.

Flipper won’t give a crap once it’s sold.

We just built a fence, and the city required a survey before a permit would be issued. Lucky for us, the survey was only $350 (gotta love small-town Montana ). In Reno, we lived in Washoe County, not the city, and I looked up replacing our existing fence (we decided to just paint it). Guess what . . . I needed a permit. So I'm guessing the flipper next to the OP did not get a permit. Is the garage new? Was a variance filed for the setback? There are a lot of questions I would be asking the county or city.

To the OP, absolutely do not do choice #3. I don't understand your comment about there not being stakes because of the asphalt. Was the asphalt put in before or after the survey? If before, I believe the surveyor would have put a spray paint marker or pin to designate corners. I would ask for a copy of that survey report very nicely. If they refuse, tell them you will have your own survey done. Then contact the county/city, a surveyor, and an attorney if necessary. Let the city/county know there is a dispute.

We had a dispute when we sold our ranch in SoCal. The ranch encompassed four parcels of 12 acres and two homes on separate parcels that were very close together and shared a patio (100+ year old adobes). You could see the county pin on the patio between the homes clearly marked "RIV CO." We sold the homes separately after attempting to sell it all together for about a year. One home sold first, and the guy wanted to purchase both homes, but couldn't afford both. So he did his best to sabotage our sale. He got it in his head that the property line map on Zillow was accurate. It went through the second house. So he thought he would end up with both homes by default. He told one of our potential buyers that there was a property line dispute and "I don't know who put that pin in there." So we paid to have a legal survey done. It was in 2014, but it was only about $900. Turns out, he lost about 1000 sq ft of what we thought was his property over it. He had just put in new sprinklers. Karma is a bitch.

 

[stephenkatsea]

When we purchased the vacant lot adjacent to our LHC home I was surprised to find out the County/State did not require a survey to identify property boundaries. Seller and I split the cost of a surveyor. Pins were placed and survey filed with city/county. Now a new owner has covered those pins with about 5 ft of fill soil. And has yet to re-establish pins at the surface.

 

[angiebaby]

I think he owns the neighbors fence, just has to have it move to the property line,

I suggest splitting the surveyor costs, and have both lots pined and recorded. Then move the fence, and split the cost of having it moved. Shouldn’t be too bad, and the neighbor already bought the material.

Why should the OP pay for any of the cost of having the fence moved? He didn't put it in the wrong spot. He didn't necessarily want a fence there. He is being inconvenienced by someone attempting to take land from him and claim it as their own.