USS America - a different class of aircraft carrier - "Lightning Carrier"

[WhatExit?]

I didn't know about this class of ships in our Navy...

Behold USS America Sailing With 13 F-35Bs Embarked Aboard
The Marines are inching closer and closer to executing their "Lightning Carrier" concept that would see amphibious assault ships bristle with F-35Bs.

USS America (LHA-6) is executing "routine operations" in the eastern Pacific, but her complement of aircraft is anything but. Deployed aboard are no less than 13 F-35Bs, and possibly even more stowed away in her hangar deck. This is the closest we've seen the USMC and the "Gator Navy" come to executing the notional "Lightning Carrier" concept, which would see the amphibious assault ships packed with nearly two dozen F-35Bs in the full-on fixed-wing aircraft carrier role. You can read all about this idea in this past feature of ours. It even eclipses the USS Wasp's (LHD-1) cruise to the South China Sea last Spring when it was spotted with ten F-35Bs aboard.

The controversial America class was designed for expanded aviation capabilities, with the space that would have been taken up by the ship's floodable well deck and other ground-assault related equipment being used for more hangar capacity and aviation support facilities. The first two to ships in the class, America and Tripoli, retain this unique configuration, with the third in the class and those that follow becoming their own subclass as they regain their well deck and have a number of other alterations you can read all about here.

Regardless, USS America is better suited for expanded F-35 operations than any other amphibious assault ship in the fleet and she had to go through a refit just after being delivered for additional modification to be better suited for taking on the F-35's unique capabilities and especially its hot and powerful exhaust plume when in vertical landing (STOVL) mode. This included treating and reinforcing landing areas on the ship and relocating and hardening components on the vessel that may be directly impacted during F-35B boarding operations.

Still, even with these modifications, it looks as if America may have fallen victim to the F-35's exhaust plume. Take a look at the large satcom dome near the port-aft part of the ship. It looks like it has been badly damaged. This is very near where the F-35Bs lineup beside the ship and cross over onto its deck before landing vertically after their missions.

U.S. NAVY PHOTO BY MASS COMMUNICATION SPECIALIST 3RD CLASS CHAD SWYSGOOD
13 F-35Bs plus two MV-22s on deck. Also, note the damaged satcom dome.

Plussing up the fixed-wing tactical aircraft component dramatically for some Amphibious Ready Group cruises will definitely give the Navy's big-deck amphibs a boost in air combat capability, including the ability to field more constant aerial patrols, if necessary, but it comes at a cost. Traditionally, these ships deploy with six to eight AV-8Bs or F-35Bs, having the fixed-wing portion of the fixed-wing component of the air wing provide a potent, but limited capability to support amphibious assaults and other traditional Marine tasks.

U.S. NAVY PHOTO BY MASS COMMUNICATION SPECIALIST 3RD CLASS VANCE HAND
VMFA-122 Flying Leathernecks F-35Bs coming aboard the USS America.

When more of these jets are added, less USMC amphibious fighting capability can be deployed. But that doesn't mean doing so doesn't make a lot of sense for some missions, in effect turning these ships into light to medium aircraft carriers capable of "first day of war" operations. This is something I have long held up as the biggest advantages of the F-35B and the F-35 program overall—giving America double the carriers capable of kicking-down the enemy's door as combat operations open up.

If you add in a few of Ospreys for aerial refueling, a couple of MH-60s for utility and search and rescue tasks, and an advanced drone for persistent aerial surveillance tasks, you have an impressive fixed-wing carrier force capable of executing relatively high-tempo operations and many of the missions that their larger counterparts are capable of.

It's not like the Harrier hasn't also turned amphibious assault ships into full-on carriers during wartime operations, as well. But those aircraft are smaller and far less capable than the F-35B, and those types of operations have been very limited in nature.

It will be interesting to see if USS America goes on cruise with a similar complement. With just two of the Navy's big deck amphibious assault ships uniquely suited for greatly expanded F-35 operations, if there are to be Lightning Carriers at all, it will most likely be them implementing this hard-hitting configuration.

 

[lavey jr]

I’ve been on that ship and was part of their fist deployment. It’s a great ship, but I prefer being on an aircraft carrier or a cruiser.

 

[WhatExit?]

I’ve been on that ship and was part of their fist deployment. It’s a great ship, but I prefer being on an aircraft carrier or a cruiser.

Why? How many crew are on a ship like the Lightning Carrier?

 

[HCP3]

Why? How many crew are on a ship like the Lightning Carrier?

LHA's:
Crew: 1204 (102 officers)
Load: 1,687 troops (plus 184 surge)

CVN's:
Crew: 4,539 (ship, air wing and staff)

 

[lavey jr]

Why? How many crew are on a ship like the Lightning Carrier?

For all my deployments I was deployed with a squadron part of the air wing. Can’t speak on the point of view for the people attached to the ship.

Carrier; better food and it had 3 different food galleys to choose from, more aircraft for more excitement and stuff going on, the carrier still gets visits from other aircraft such as F-35’s and V-22’s along with foreign aircraft visits. Yes the carrier has a ton more people on it but it’s also a ton bigger than the LHA so there’s a lot more room (perspectively speaking). On a carrier you don’t have to wait in ridiculous lines to get food where as on the LHA you’ve either gotta get in line a while before the galley opens or else you’ll be stuck behind a bunch of Marines who are mainly just on the ship for transit purposes and don’t have to get back to work on the aircraft in a timely manner, there are some aviation Marines on the ship who work on the aircraft, but not near as many.

Cruiser; a lot less people, some of the best food in the Navy I’ve ever had, make friends with the cook staff and they’ll let you come back there and cook your own food with them when the galley is closed, only two helicopters on the ship so when it comes to aviation stuff you’re the ones who make it happen.

Just a short list why I preferred those two ships over the America.

 

[HBCraig]

So the V 22 is an Osprey right?

Is the F35 a kin to a Herrier (SP?) ?

 

[Lavey29]

Hey Jr thank you for your service to our country and your service (along with family) to the boating community. First me your dad and uncle in 1991 at the boat show.

 

[HCP3]

So the V 22 is an Osprey right?

Is the F35 a kin to a Herrier (SP?) ?

V-22 Osprey. Correct.
F-35 B-model variant is replacing the AV-8B Harrier.

 

[HBCraig]

V-22 Osprey. Correct.
F-35 B-model variant is replacing the AV-8B Harrier.

And is the Osprey only in the Marines?

 

[HCP3]

And is the Osprey only in the Marines?

Marines and Air Force.

 

[Blackmagic94]

I didn't know about this class of ships in our Navy...

Behold USS America Sailing With 13 F-35Bs Embarked Aboard
The Marines are inching closer and closer to executing their "Lightning Carrier" concept that would see amphibious assault ships bristle with F-35Bs.

USS America (LHA-6) is executing "routine operations" in the eastern Pacific, but her complement of aircraft is anything but. Deployed aboard are no less than 13 F-35Bs, and possibly even more stowed away in her hangar deck. This is the closest we've seen the USMC and the "Gator Navy" come to executing the notional "Lightning Carrier" concept, which would see the amphibious assault ships packed with nearly two dozen F-35Bs in the full-on fixed-wing aircraft carrier role. You can read all about this idea in this past feature of ours. It even eclipses the USS Wasp's (LHD-1) cruise to the South China Sea last Spring when it was spotted with ten F-35Bs aboard.

The controversial America class was designed for expanded aviation capabilities, with the space that would have been taken up by the ship's floodable well deck and other ground-assault related equipment being used for more hangar capacity and aviation support facilities. The first two to ships in the class, America and Tripoli, retain this unique configuration, with the third in the class and those that follow becoming their own subclass as they regain their well deck and have a number of other alterations you can read all about here.

Regardless, USS America is better suited for expanded F-35 operations than any other amphibious assault ship in the fleet and she had to go through a refit just after being delivered for additional modification to be better suited for taking on the F-35's unique capabilities and especially its hot and powerful exhaust plume when in vertical landing (STOVL) mode. This included treating and reinforcing landing areas on the ship and relocating and hardening components on the vessel that may be directly impacted during F-35B boarding operations.

Still, even with these modifications, it looks as if America may have fallen victim to the F-35's exhaust plume. Take a look at the large satcom dome near the port-aft part of the ship. It looks like it has been badly damaged. This is very near where the F-35Bs lineup beside the ship and cross over onto its deck before landing vertically after their missions.

U.S. NAVY PHOTO BY MASS COMMUNICATION SPECIALIST 3RD CLASS CHAD SWYSGOOD
13 F-35Bs plus two MV-22s on deck. Also, note the damaged satcom dome.

Plussing up the fixed-wing tactical aircraft component dramatically for some Amphibious Ready Group cruises will definitely give the Navy's big-deck amphibs a boost in air combat capability, including the ability to field more constant aerial patrols, if necessary, but it comes at a cost. Traditionally, these ships deploy with six to eight AV-8Bs or F-35Bs, having the fixed-wing portion of the fixed-wing component of the air wing provide a potent, but limited capability to support amphibious assaults and other traditional Marine tasks.

U.S. NAVY PHOTO BY MASS COMMUNICATION SPECIALIST 3RD CLASS VANCE HAND
VMFA-122 Flying Leathernecks F-35Bs coming aboard the USS America.

When more of these jets are added, less USMC amphibious fighting capability can be deployed. But that doesn't mean doing so doesn't make a lot of sense for some missions, in effect turning these ships into light to medium aircraft carriers capable of "first day of war" operations. This is something I have long held up as the biggest advantages of the F-35B and the F-35 program overall—giving America double the carriers capable of kicking-down the enemy's door as combat operations open up.

If you add in a few of Ospreys for aerial refueling, a couple of MH-60s for utility and search and rescue tasks, and an advanced drone for persistent aerial surveillance tasks, you have an impressive fixed-wing carrier force capable of executing relatively high-tempo operations and many of the missions that their larger counterparts are capable of.

It's not like the Harrier hasn't also turned amphibious assault ships into full-on carriers during wartime operations, as well. But those aircraft are smaller and far less capable than the F-35B, and those types of operations have been very limited in nature.

It will be interesting to see if USS America goes on cruise with a similar complement. With just two of the Navy's big deck amphibious assault ships uniquely suited for greatly expanded F-35 operations, if there are to be Lightning Carriers at all, it will most likely be them implementing this hard-hitting configuration.

PLAN cannot be happy about this. In fact when we steamed by the south China seas they had to piss their pants. What the f35 brings to the fight is game changing.

 

[lavey jr]

Hey Jr thank you for your service to our country and your service (along with family) to the boating community. First me your dad and uncle in 1991 at the boat show.

You’re welcome!
I remember as a kid always going in the showroom to look at the engine in your 29. Awesome setup!

And is the Osprey only in the Marines?

Marines and Air Force.

The V-22 Osprey is also on its way to the Navy very soon. A couple of squadrons are getting ready for the transition, not sure if I’m allowed to say which ones...

 

[Spudsbud]

Thank you for your service Sir. And ship perpective.

 

[Lavey29]

You’re welcome!
I remember as a kid always going in the showroom to look at the engine in your 29. Awesome setup!





The V-22 Osprey is also on its way to the Navy very soon. A couple of squadrons are getting ready for the transition, not sure if I’m allowed to say which ones...

Funny, I've considered doing a twin 32 with Chris. I've always loved that yellow one with the Teague. Not sure when but someday.

 

[rrrr]

In the age of drones, standoff missiles, and smart munitions, the F-35B is just a shiny toy for the Marines and a waste of money.

With dispatch reliability below 50% and operating costs near $50,000 per hour, the overall F-35 program is still a mess after 13 years of efforts to bring it under control.

JMHO.

 

[Blackmagic94]

In the age of drones, standoff missiles, and smart munitions, the F-35B is just a shiny toy for the Marines and a waste of money.

With dispatch reliability below 50% and operating costs near $50,000 per hour, the overall F-35 program is still a mess after 13 years of efforts to bring it under control.

JMHO.

Lol. Clueless

 

[rrrr]

Quite the opposite.

 

[Blackmagic94]

Quite the opposite.

Well explain how latency of a drone is not issue in a combat EW rich AO? Explain how the mission readiness rate is 3x better then the 8Bs they replaced. Explain how having stealth vs non stealth for 3 branches of the military is not important but for the marines their first and only LO airframes. Explain how smart munitions get into the AO without a launch platform. Explain how a combat drone can perform anything other then ISR and cannot perform CAP or other missions.

 

[rrrr]

I'm not interested in a big argument. I think it's ridiculous to think the $100 million F-35B is an effective tac air solution. It'll never see a day of the combat it has supposedly built for. The Harriers saw two weeks of action in their lifetime.

 

[Blackmagic94]

I'm not interested in a big argument. I think it's ridiculous to think the $100 million F-35B is an effective tac air solution. It'll never see a day of the combat it has supposedly built for. The Harriers saw two weeks of action in their lifetime.

So I guess all the bombs that it’s already dropped for the usaf USMC and IDF don’t count. Interesting.

I guess that it can direct SM3s of a AEGIS at air threats from hundreds of miles away doesn’t impress you


Or that it’s IR tracked a NASA launch out of Florida while it flew CAP over DC which was like 800 miles away.


Not sure about the B but the other models are around 80 million and dropping now. So

 

[Blackmagic94]

Also your lack of retorts shows you have no factual counter to that other then your feelings. Let me guess you work on a10s. Lol

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Also your lack of retorts shows you have no factual counter to that other then your feelings. Let me guess you work on a10s. Lol

Watch it. I liked the responses until you brought up the warthog...haha love the plane

 

[rrrr]

So I guess all the bombs that it’s already dropped for the usaf USMC and IDF don’t count. Interesting.

I guess that it can direct SM3s of a AEGIS at air threats from hundreds of miles away doesn’t impress you


Or that it’s IR tracked a NASA launch out of Florida while it flew CAP over DC which was like 800 miles away.


Not sure about the B but the other models are around 80 million and dropping now. So

And what do any of those capabilities have to do with down and dirty close air support? As for stealth, the F-35Bs are observable with the latest phased array radars, so when and if they ever fly support for an amphib landing necessitating a low level reduced speed, by then weapons advancements will allow a Chinese enlisted crew run by a noncom to blast them out of the sky, like the NVA did with SAM-2s.

Their sensor and ECM suites will be obsolete by the time they are deployed in squadrons. The time elapsed between LRIP builds and thus different Block numbers will make spare parts inventories a nightmare, especially if there is an emergency forward deployment of squadrons located at different CONUS bases.

But the B models look good at airshows, so that's a plus.

 

[Blackmagic94]

You need to stop believing the Russian sales brochures.
F35i have flown over Iran undetected. F35i have dropped bombs on Iranian positions in Russian territory of Syria with s300/400s present undetected in broad daylight.

facts

explain how an a10 provides CAS in a peer on peer exchange with s400s present and below. They don’t. They die.

a10s are great when you own the sky but back to your argument why fly an a10 at tens of thousands an hour to operate when a turbo prop COIN like a at6 super tuq or bronco can drop SBDs on mud huts with better effect and less cost.

the F35 does a lot more then just kill mud huts. You are thinking in the past when the future you don’t grasp

 

[Blackmagic94]

That also means you don’t understand how the f35 electronics work. You don’t need to swap out parts. It can literally reconfigure it’s systems to do different things electronically.


It literally can change the way it’s radar works or turn itself into a ecm jammer. So then the Chinese fire a different frequency. It can adapt to that. It’s literally mind blowing

 

[Blackmagic94]

He also forgets that there are operation squadrons of all types of f35s and USMC variants already did a 6 month tour in the gulf and dropped more bombs and had a better mission readiness rate then the harrier could have ever dreamed about. But hate on haters lol

 

[Rvrluvr]

Hey. If you clowns are gonna argue....can you do it in a non code language us simpletons can understand?? Jeeze. The nerve

 

[rrrr]

I haven't said shit about the A-10, and I'd hope the F-35 has a better dispatch rate than the forty year old Harriers, even though it's less than 30% fleet wide. That's really something to brag about.

And I'm discussing the F-35B, so I don't care about what the other variants have or haven't done.

 

[rrrr]

That also means you don’t understand how the f35 electronics work. You don’t need to swap out parts. It can literally reconfigure it’s systems to do different things electronically.


It literally can change the way it’s radar works or turn itself into a ecm jammer. So then the Chinese fire a different frequency. It can adapt to that. It’s literally mind blowing

My comment was about airframe parts, not electronics.

 

[Blackmagic94]

My comment was about airframe parts, not electronics.

I haven't said shit about the A-10, and I'd hope the F-35 has a better dispatch rate than the forty year old Harriers, even though it's less than 50% fleet wide. That's really something to brag about.

And I'm discussing the F-35B, so I don't care about what the other variants have or haven't done.

The B has seen combat. Do you have anything based on fact or just conjecture

 

[Blackmagic94]

Neither Syrian or Russian air defenses attempted to engage the F-35Bs during the missions against ISIS, he said.

"We would see Russian airplanes airborne as well as Syrian, but everyone maintained their lines of de-confliction that were set up prior," Shoop said.

Overall, the F-35 exceeded expectations during its first deployment, Shoop said. The squadron was able to keep 75 percent of its aircraft operational at all times, allo

 

[rrrr]

Neither Syrian or Russian air defenses attempted to engage the F-35Bs during the missions against ISIS, he said.

"We would see Russian airplanes airborne as well as Syrian, but everyone maintained their lines of de-confliction that were set up prior," Shoop said.

Overall, the F-35 exceeded expectations during its first deployment, Shoop said. The squadron was able to keep 75 percent of its aircraft operational at all times, allo

Not engaging them doesn't mean they didn't see the F-35s. Fact.

Did I say the F-35B hadn't seen combat? I didn't think so. They sure as hell haven't seen close air support and interdiction during an amphibious assault, which is what the Marines claim they will use them for. If that ever happens (which I doubt), the aircraft won't be on the beach using their VTOL capability, they'll be standing off miles away firing missiles. They don't need STOL/VTOL capability for that, do they? If they try to come in low and slow for CAS using their $40 million VTOL fan, they'll get shot out of the sky.

Ohhh...red text! I'll use some of that too.

Do you understand what system wide readiness rate means? It doesn't matter if one squadron has a 75% rate for one deployment. BFD. The readiness rate of the test squadron at Edwards is less than 10%. The F-35 fleet as a whole has a 27% readiness rate. Pretty sorry for a $100 million wonder aircraft. You have anything to say about that, or am I spouting conjecture again?

The 23 aircraft in the test fleet achieved an abysmal “fully mission capable” rate of 8.7 percent in June 2019 according to the chart, which covers December 2018 through mid-July 2019. A fully mission capable aircraft can perform all of its assigned missions, a particularly important readiness measure for multi-mission programs such as the F-35. The June rate was actually an improvement over the previous month, when the fleet managed a rate of just 4.7 percent. Since the beginning of operational testing in December 2018, the fleet has had an average fully mission capable rate of just 11 percent.

The Pentagon’s operational testing director has stated that the test fleet needs an 80 percent availability rate to meet the demanding schedule of the program’s test and evaluation master plan.

The operational test fleet readiness chart shows that aircraft being used for operational testing are actually performing worse than the rest of the F-35 fleet, which could achieve only a 27 percent fully mission capable rate, according to the latest available figures.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...st-fleet-struggling-low-readiness-rates-72816


You just want to fucking argue and be an asshole. I'm done.

 

[Blackmagic94]

You literally said by the time they see combat they will be outdated.

Sounds like you are denying they did and now you are back pedaling.

and comparing readiness rates of LRIP aircraft and test units is dumb. Go pull the numbers on any of the teen series. Better yet see how many people died in those during that vs the f35 in testing. Hmmm

 

[Blackmagic94]

You are also pulling data that is almost a year old. But hey let’s not let your butthurt get in the way




Also let’s re exam this


The Iranian government executed their air force general after it was discovered he hid the information that Israeli F35s flew over multiple Iran sites this year and they were unable to fire or stop the aircraft.


so let’s think about that one.


And your point that it can be detected is dumb. Stealth isn’t invisible. It’s LO you know what that means, it’s not zero. It’s low. Now with the f35 sensor suite it can jam and confuse your precious ultra high band and low band radars and then fly the needle between the gaps to make it even harder to see. Sure they can see it but can they see it to stop its incoming weapons. Probably not. Maybe not fast enough to stop an attack. Etc.

 

[rrrr]

Let's expand a little on my claim about spare parts, LRIPs and Block numbers. I didn't need to do a Google search before coming up with that statement, common sense dictates that what I said is accurate.

But here's what's going on:

Still, F-35 aircraft were unable to fly nearly 30% of the time during the study due to spare parts shortages, according to GAO. The DoD also had a repair backlog of about 4,300 parts.

“DoD is taking steps to fix these issues, such as improving the reliability of parts,” says GAO. “However, it has not fully determined actions needed to close the gap between warfighter requirements and the performance the F-35 supply chain can deliver.”

The F-35 fleet is also suffering from mismatched parts. The DoD purchases certain sets of F-35 parts years ahead of time to support aircraft on deployments, including on US Navy (USN) aircraft carriers and US Marine Corps (USMC) amphibious assault ships. But the parts do not fully match the military services' needs because F-35 aircraft have been modified over time, says the GAO.

“For example, 44% of purchased parts were incompatible with aircraft the Marine Corps took on a recent deployment,” says the GAO. “Without a process to modify the sets of parts for deployments, DoD may be unable to meet the services' operational needs.”

To make matters worse, the DoD has spent billions of dollars on F-35 spare parts, but does not have records for all the parts it has purchased, where they are, or how much they cost.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...st-fleet-struggling-low-readiness-rates-72816


What a surprise, huh? But what do I know, I just read AW&ST and make up shit.

 

[welldigger00]

Lol!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rrrr]

You literally said by the time they see combat they will be outdated.

Sounds like you are denying they did and now you are back pedaling.

and comparing readiness rates of LRIP aircraft and test units is dumb. Go pull the numbers on any of the teen series. Better yet see how many people died in those during that vs the f35 in testing. Hmmm

I said if and when the F-35B is ever used for its supposed mission, the aircraft's current defenses will be compromised by enemy capability. That means spending billions more to prop up an aircraft that on a fleet wide basis, today, can't perform its mission 73% of the time, and the Marines' justification of the STOL/VTOL B version for CAS is typical military BS.

The test fleet readiness numbers are absolutely indicative of the huge problems the program has, because Lockheed and the services are giving those aircraft maximum logistical support and they still aren't ready to fly 91.3% of the time. Why is considering those numbers "dumb"? They are supposed to be operational aircraft, not prototypes.

The operational test fleet’s low readiness rates are surprising, considering the high-profile nature of the fleet’s mission. Under federal law, a major defense acquisition program cannot legally proceed to full-rate production until the director of operational test and evaluation (DOT&E) submits a final report to the secretary of defense and Congress following the conclusion of the testing process. Because of this, the operational testing fleet receives extra support in the form of larger maintenance crews, and is presumably higher on the priority list to receive spare parts.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...st-fleet-struggling-low-readiness-rates-72816

 

[rrrr]

You are also pulling data that is almost a year old. But hey let’s not let your butthurt get in the way

A year old?

The links I posted above were written on:

August 11, 2019

The 23 aircraft in the test fleet achieved an abysmal “fully mission capable” rate of 8.7 percent in June 2019

.

April 26, 2019

Still, F-35 aircraft were unable to fly nearly 30% of the time during the study due to spare parts shortages, according to GAO. The DoD also had a repair backlog of about 4,300 parts.

.

Here's another tidbit I found. Initial and secondary LRIP aircraft that cost over $100 million will be junk within a few years, and those built more recently may not be better.

The F-35 first flew on 15 December 2006. In July 2015, the United States Marines declared its first squadron of F-35B fighters ready for deployment. However, the DOD-based durability testing indicated the service life of early-production F-35B aircraft is well under the expected 8,000 flight hours, and may be as low as 2,100 flight hours. Lot 9 and later aircraft include design changes but service life testing has yet to occur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II

Excerpt from a FY2017 DOD report:

The JPO suspended durability testing for the F-35B after completion of the second lifetime of testing in February 2017; the test article had so many repairs it was no longer representative of the production aircraft. The program has not yet procured another durability test article for the F-35B to begin the third lifetime of testing.

The effect of the failures observed and repairs required during the first two lifetimes of testing on the service life certification of the F-35B aircraft is still to be determined. The service life for all three variants is planned to be 8,000 hours, however the F-35B service life may be less than that, even with extensive modifications to strengthen the aircraft already produced.

https://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2017/pdf/dod/2017f35jsf.pdf

I could fill up pages with reports of the F-35B's cost overruns, failures, inability to perform mission requirements, and dismal readiness rates. It's an expensive boondoggle that will never perform up to its contract requirements. The Navy and Lockheed are doing everything they can to deflect scrutiny of the program.

And what's with the butt hurt comment? Can't you discuss this like a man without using kiddie insults?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

The F35 hubub reminds me a lot of the F22.

It was touted as an over complex, expensive POS that was very fragile and "an F15 could kick its ass".

When the O'bama Pentagon (under Robert Gates) canceled the contract suddenly the F22 was the greatest air superiority fighter of all time!

The Lightning II certainly seems like 10lbs of shit in a 5lbs bag, but systems need time to proof to see how high the dough rises.