Trailer Bearing's

[Meaney77]

What would cause a trailer bearing/ hub to come loose?

Background- I keep my boat in Havasu so it doesn't see many freeway miles. 2 seasons ago I had a bearing go south on the passenger rear side of the trailer as we were headed back to Havasu from Parker.

I took my boat and trailer into Brake Master in Havasu to repair. Obviously not my 1st choice but they were the closest in proximity from where the issues started. I didn't want to drive all over town, wheel was wobbling and smoking. The guy at Brake Master said they fix them all the time and could have the parts and have it fixed for me and ready to pick up the next morning so we wouldn't loose a day on the water. So he fixed it and we picked it up everything was good.

I continued to tow my boat back and forth from storage to the Islander all through last season. I maybe towed it a total of 200 miles if that, and then in October during our last trip out I had the same issue. I took my trailer back and peaked on the Manager at Brake Master about how this is unacceptable- I explained that I only tow a few miles around town and this shouldn't have happened if it was put back together correctly. After some back and forth discussion he covered the labor and got me the parts at cost (which I paid for) and fixed it again.

So I drop the trailer off, they fix it, I pick it up on Saturday afternoon. I drove from Brake Master to The Islander. I pulled my boat out of the water and take it back to storage. As I pull into my storage lot, I hear a loud noise, and see the bearing buddy blow out as I go around the corner. I stop and check it out and can shake the wheel- same problem I had before. ( I may have towed 10 miles) By this time its late in the day and Brake Master is closed so I just put it back in storage and figured I will deal with it in April when it warms up and we start boating again. I called the Manager and peaked on him some more and also stopped payment on the work they did ( I had to pay for parts).

So my question is- any idea whats causing the issue? Its the same wheel/ hub. All parts were replaced with new. New bearings, new pads, new rotor/hub. Its not hard to service these things, I have done them several times in the past. Does Brake Master have a bunch of lackeys that are working on stuff? Are they replacing with the wrong parts? or is there a bigger issue like a bent axle or something else going on that I need to look into and worry about?

Next July we are headed to Tahoe and bring the boat, its a long tow and I dont want to have any issues.

Thanks for your input.

 

[spectra3279]

What would cause a trailer bearing/ hub to come loose?

Background- I keep my boat in Havasu so it doesn't see many freeway miles. 2 seasons ago I had a bearing go south on the passenger rear side of the trailer as we were headed back to Havasu from Parker.

I took my boat and trailer into Brake Master in Havasu to repair. Obviously not my 1st choice but they were the closest in proximity from where the issues started. I didn't want to drive all over town, wheel was wobbling and smoking. The guy at Brake Master said they fix them all the time and could have the parts and have it fixed for me and ready to pick up the next morning so we wouldn't loose a day on the water. So he fixed it and we picked it up everything was good.

I continued to tow my boat back and forth from storage to the Islander all through last season. I maybe towed it a total of 200 miles if that, and then in October during our last trip out I had the same issue. I took my trailer back and peaked on the Manager at Brake Master about how this is unacceptable- I explained that I only tow a few miles around town and this shouldn't have happened if it was put back together correctly. After some back and forth discussion he covered the labor and got me the parts at cost (which I paid for) and fixed it again.

So I drop the trailer off, they fix it, I pick it up on Saturday afternoon. I drove from Brake Master to The Islander. I pulled my boat out of the water and take it back to storage. As I pull into my storage lot, I hear a loud noise, and see the bearing buddy blow out as I go around the corner. I stop and check it out and can shake the wheel- same problem I had before. ( I may have towed 10 miles) By this time its late in the day and Brake Master is closed so I just put it back in storage and figured I will deal with it in April when it warms up and we start boating again. I called the Manager and peaked on him some more and also stopped payment on the work they did ( I had to pay for parts).

So my question is- any idea whats causing the issue? Its the same wheel/ hub. All parts were replaced with new. New bearings, new pads, new rotor/hub. Its not hard to service these things, I have done them several times in the past. Does Brake Master have a bunch of lackeys that are working on stuff? Are they replacing with the wrong parts? or is there a bigger issue like a bent axle or something else going on that I need to look into and worry about?

Next July we are headed to Tahoe and bring the boat, its a long tow and I dont want to have any issues.

Thanks for your input.

If the spindle is shot, it will kill bearings quick

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[Meaney77]

If the spindle is shot, it will kill bearings quick

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What would cause a spindle to go south?

 

[spectra3279]

What would cause a spindle to go south?

Bad bearings

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The bearings can sieze and start spinning on the spindle. This wears away where the race sits

 

[4Waters]

What would cause a spindle to go south?

The original bearings going south

 

[fishing fool]

If the race was not set all the way it could have mover causing movement in the hub damaging the bearing.

 

[milkmoney]

If the race was not set all the way it could have mover causing movement in the hub damaging the bearing.

What in the fuck did u jus say ???

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[fishing fool]

Another thing to think of. How often do you use the trailer? If there is not enough grease in the bearing and water got in there it could have corroded the bearing and it took this long to let go.

This is wat happened to a pulley bearing in my boat.

 

[Meaney77]

Bad bearings

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The bearings can sieze and start spinning on the spindle. This wears away where the race sits

If the race was not set all the way it could have mover causing movement in the hub damaging the bearing.

Woudnt this all be easily noticed when they reassembled 2 different times?

 

[530RL]

They put new races in with the new bearings and did not seat the races all the way and they moved?

They used cheap bearings and races as opposed to Timken?

They did not seat the bearings in the races when first tightening them up?

They are using the wrong bearing seal that is upon initial assembly not allowing the inner bearing to sit flush on the inner stop.

They are not using a thrust washer on the assembly or have the wrong size thrust washer?

No pin on the adjusting nut?

What did the first set of bearings look like when they pulled them out?

There is not a lot of stuff there to allow it to come loose and move....

 

[spectra3279]

Woudnt this all be easily noticed when they reassembled 2 different times?

If they actually know what to look for and not just slapping parts on. If you have a good race, just slip it on and see how tight the race fits. T should be snug but not where you have to drive it on. Once it's on, see if it's easy to slide off. If it is, good chance it's spinning on the spindle.

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[fishing fool]

This is a race that the bearing set in. The race is in the hub, if it is not set in all the way you will get play when it moves.

I'm sorry you are a little slow and do not understand how things work.

What in the fuck did u jus say ???

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[spectra3279]

View attachment 612296
This is a race that the bearing set in. The race is in the hub, if it is not set in all the way you will get play when it moves.

I'm sorry you are a little slow and do not understand how things work.

Also if the spindle race spins on the spindle. This will do the same.

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[Meaney77]

View attachment 612297

They put new races in with the new bearings and did not seat the races all the way and they moved?

They used cheap bearings and races as opposed to Timken?

They did not seat the bearings in the races when first tightening them up?

They are using the wrong bearing seal that is upon initial assembly not allowing the inner bearing to sit flush on the inner stop.

They are not using a thrust washer on the assembly or have the wrong size thrust washer?

No pin on the adjusting nut?

What did the first set of bearings look like when they pulled them out?

There is not a lot of stuff there to allow it to come loose and move....

I asked similar questions when I was talking to the manager. He indicated that when they pick these parts up from the local parts house the unit is sold in a complete kit- essentially all of the new parts are a ready in the hub assembly they just need to pack the bearings and install.

 

[highvoltagehands]

X2 on Bearing races. Might need to go brake shop to have hub/bearings pressed correctly, check spindle. I've also been told when mounting to tighten the castle nut, back it off, tighten it down again, back off, so on until all the play is taken out, Mount wheel & rotate tire checking for lateral movement or out of balance. if everything looks good, remove tire, back castle nut off one notch and pin it. Vibrations from Out of balance wheels can ruin bearings very quickly also.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Usually when a trailer bearing starts to fail , we don’t see it right away , so continuing to drive on it destroys the spindle . The bearings don’t seat right and bearing preload is impossible to set properly

 

[milkmoney]

View attachment 612296
This is a race that the bearing set in. The race is in the hub, if it is not set in all the way you will get play when it moves.

I'm sorry you are a little slow and do not understand how things work.

Huh????[emoji4] [emoji202]

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[Boat 405]

If the spindle is shot, it will kill bearings quick

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This, you'll need a new spindle. A good trailer shop like adrenaline can cut off the old one and weld on a new one.

 

[Meaney77]

Thanks for the input guys. Planning to drop the trailer off at Adrenaline prior to the season starting for a refresh. Hoping they can figure it out.

 

[highvoltagehands]

Thanks for the input guys. Planning to drop the trailer off at Adrenaline prior to the season starting for a refresh. Hoping they can figure it out.

Curious, So Let us know what you find out deepballs.

 

[shunter2005]

Sounds more like shoddy work. Most of those places don't know shit from Crisco. A few might, but most where I live, don't. Would I let them repair the brakes on my wife's car or my truck? Nope.

Unless they installed a new hub or hub w/rotor or hub w/drum, which all usually have new races installed, they may not have installed a new inner and/or outer race in the hub. May have just stuck a new bearing in the old race and said, "Adios" to save some time and work (lazy). It happens all the time, at more places than you would think. The problem is, the old race is worn and the new bearing isn't, which will usually lead to another catastrophic failure very soon. I would take it apart myself to see just what they did or didn't do, or get Adrenaline to document what they find and then take that info and pics back to Brake Master, if necessary.

I'm not going to say it doesn't happen, but I have changed plenty of bad bearings and races in my time and I have rarely seen a spindle that was so bad that it couldn't be rehabed/repaired. That is some hard ass steel. Had an outer bearing come apart and found the race was welded to the spindle. Applied heat to it and then finessed it with a big assed hammer to get it off. Some emery cloth to clean it up, inspected it and it was good to go.

Afterwards, I kept losing bearing buddys off of that same wheel. After losing the 3rd one, I did some checking and found the inside diameter of the hub where the bearing buddy rides was too large, so it would not stay in when you turned in the opposite direction. All I could figure was when the bearing went bad, the hub got hot and expanded by a few 1000th's. New hub and bearing buddy installed and the problem went away.

 

[jpf091959]

I am 58 and owned boats since high school and the one thing I still don't understand is why trailer bearings fail. It has been decades since I replaced wheel bearing in a car or truck, but damned if bearings, races, etc don't fail on a trailer. I just don't get it.

 

[Jimmy]

If the race was not set all the way it could have mover causing movement in the hub damaging the bearing.

What in the fuck did u jus say ???

View attachment 612296
This is a race that the bearing set in. The race is in the hub, if it is not set in all the way you will get play when it moves.

I'm sorry you are a little slow and do not understand how things work.

 

[77charger]

I am 58 and owned boats since high school and the one thing I still don't understand is why trailer bearings fail. It has been decades since I replaced wheel bearing in a car or truck, but damned if bearings, races, etc don't fail on a trailer. I just don't get it.

I grease mine after each trip before parking boat. Never had a bearing failure. Imo others I know that own boats think once a year at best is enough grease.

 

[buck35]

I am 58 and owned boats since high school and the one thing I still don't understand is why trailer bearings fail. It has been decades since I replaced wheel bearing in a car or truck, but damned if bearings, races, etc don't fail on a trailer. I just don't get it.

I think the side loading on tandams must be what kills them , plus being dunked . I was watch a buddy back into a tight space with his and the tires were more skidding than rolling as he was backing in.

 

[lbhsbz]

Have a very good look at the bearing races, they will generally tell the story.

 

[mjc]

I am 58 and owned boats since high school and the one thing I still don't understand is why trailer bearings fail. It has been decades since I replaced wheel bearing in a car or truck, but damned if bearings, races, etc don't fail on a trailer. I just don't get it.

I think it has a lot to do with getting bearing hot on the way to the ramp and then dunking them in cold water causing water to get sucked into the bearing. I never had a bearing failure but lots of drum brakes failed from the hot to cold thing. Now that i trailer 3 miles they don't get hot enough to have any problems.

 

[Kailuaboy89]

The seals have to seal properly so the bearings can bear.....

 

[shunter2005]

Have a very good look at the bearing races, they will generally tell the story.

Exactly. Here is what 4 of 6 looked like when they came out. Also, a little problem with the hub.

 

[SoCalDave]

I would agree with the others here that the dipping is what kills bearings especially if the seals are not maintained. I remove, clean, inspect, repack and replace the seals every other year no matter how often or how many miles it travels. I also keep a cheap infrared gun in the truck to shoot each hub when stopped for gas, etc.
I'm a little OCD about my trailer bearings as i do not want to be that guy on the side of the freeway in 100+ degree heat. I've seen it all to often on my trips to the river.
Your situation is somewhat strange and it will be interesting to hear of the root cause once identified.

 

[lbhsbz]

Exactly. Here is what 4 of 6 looked like when they came out. Also, a little problem with the hub.

View attachment 612713 View attachment 612714 View attachment 612715

What a horribly shit casting that is. Who made that rotor? Any other casting numbers on it?

That bearing failed due to water intrusion.

 

[Done-it-again]

I would agree with the others here that the dipping is what kills bearings especially if the seals are not maintained. I remove, clean, inspect, repack and replace the seals every other year no matter how often or how many miles it travels. I also keep a cheap infrared gun in the truck to shoot each hub when stopped for gas, etc.
I'm a little OCD about my trailer bearings as i do not want to be that guy on the side of the freeway in 100+ degree heat. I've seen it all to often on my trips to the river.
Your situation is somewhat strange and it will be interesting to hear of the root cause once identified.

How hot do you see your hubs when it’s 100+ out?

 

[rush1]

You can fix that hub by peening it, that will keep the race from spinning However hubs are really cheap these days I would just replace it.I keep a spare hub in my towing box I bring with me when I tow

 

[rush1]

https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Hubs_and_Drums.aspx

 

[lbhsbz]

You can fix that hub by peening it, that will keep the race from spinning However hubs are really cheap these days I would just replace it.I keep a spare hub in my towing box I bring with me when I tow

No, you don't fix a hub/rotor like that...that POS has such horrible inclusions in the casting Iit should have went to the foundry scrap pile. That actually looks like a US or canadian made piece...most of the chinese stuff over the last 15 years don't put any text into the casting, but stamp it into a machined surface.

One critical element of a spindle or hub is that the bearing fits need to be concentric and squared with each other. This can only happen if both the inner and outer bearing fits are machined in the same fixturing....performing a repair will screw everything up, and for a high speed bearing, will always end badly.

 

[rush1]

Funny I've fixed hundreds of them when I worked at ABC mobile brake never had a problem ,however you'll know when you do it if it's going to work or not.I've repaired some I thought that wouldn't work and they were fine, again they are so cheap today why bother I would just replace it too

 

[lbhsbz]

Funny I've fixed hundreds of them when I worked at ABC mobile brake never had a problem ,however you'll know when you do it if it's going to work or not.I've repaired some I thought that wouldn't work and they were fine, again they are so cheap today why bother I would just replace it too

To clarify...I suppose anything is fixable...but a casting with those types of inclusions likely has a whole lot more that you can't see. That chunk should go to the scrap bin.

 

[shunter2005]

What a horribly shit casting that is. Who made that rotor? Any other casting numbers on it?

That bearing failed due to water intrusion.

Agreed!!! Bad casting.

The hub/rotor came from UFP and was installed on my Extreme trailer in 2001. In it's defense, the big hole was covered by the race, so no one could see it until the race was removed. I called and talked to UFP about it and sent pics. I really didn't expect much, since it is 15 yrs old, I really just wanted to let them know. They really didn't say much, other than we will show it around and see where it goes. They did tell me that they do not cast their own stuff and they are made offsite (a little cya). I would venture to guess that the races were probably installed by the manufacturer and UFP probably never even looked at the inside. It lasted 15 years with no one the wiser.

This all started with what I thought was a frozen caliper while bleeding the system, but turned out to be a very loose caliper as the single mounting bolt holding the caliper to the mounting bracket was missing and the caliper was only held in place by the very thin caliper retainer wire. As loose as it was, it's a miracle that the wire didn't break or fall off and cause the entire caliper to come off. I removed the bearing buddy just to check and of course, found water intrusion. Then pulled the hub and found the bearing and race in that condition. Everything just escalated from there and I am putting new bearings, races and seals in all the hubs now, whether they are good or not.

The UFP hub/rotor has been replaced ($75, which isn't that bad) with a new UFP hub/rotor, plus new calipers, pads and bearings/races/seals, all around.

 

[shunter2005]

To clarify...I suppose anything is fixable...but a casting with those types of inclusions likely has a whole lot more that you can't see. That chunk should go to the scrap bin.

It's on the way.

 

[SoCalDave]

How hot do you see your hubs when it’s 100+ out?

Not as hot as one would think, usually around the 125-130 range. The break rotor (drum breaks) tend to run a bit hotter due to application at exit.

 

[Meaney77]

Quick update -

After seeing One-A-Day's post on having his trailer redone I figured I would give Frank's Trailer a go. Frank was super easy to work with, he drove over to my storage unit looked at my trailer and gave me a few options. Option 1 was to just address the wheel bearing and spindle I have been having issues with. Option 2 was to go through the trailer and do a full redo- I went with option 2.

I have yet to see the work in person but I am hoping to get out to Havasu within the next few weeks to check it out. Here are a few pic's Frank set me through the process.

This is great- here is a shot of the shitty work Brake Master did- keep in mind this was after picking the trailer up pulling my boat out of the water and returning to storage- maybe 5 miles. Needless to say I had a few words for the manger and I am in the process of getting my money back. I will believe it when I see it- this is a safety hazard and should have never left the shop like this.

You can see the spindle is pretty hammered Frank is welding a new ones on.

Trailer is sanded down, all pits are filled and sanded.

Paint and final assembly

Overall happy with my experience so far. Frank stuck to his bid, had great communication and had it done in a little over a week. I will get a closer look at it when I am out there next.





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[lbhsbz]

Bad bearings

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Tapered roller bearings...or any roller element bearing for that matter,

What would cause a trailer bearing/ hub to come loose?

Background- I keep my boat in Havasu so it doesn't see many freeway miles. 2 seasons ago I had a bearing go south on the passenger rear side of the trailer as we were headed back to Havasu from Parker.

I took my boat and trailer into Brake Master in Havasu to repair. Obviously not my 1st choice but they were the closest in proximity from where the issues started. I didn't want to drive all over town, wheel was wobbling and smoking. The guy at Brake Master said they fix them all the time and could have the parts and have it fixed for me and ready to pick up the next morning so we wouldn't loose a day on the water. So he fixed it and we picked it up everything was good.

I continued to tow my boat back and forth from storage to the Islander all through last season. I maybe towed it a total of 200 miles if that, and then in October during our last trip out I had the same issue. I took my trailer back and peaked on the Manager at Brake Master about how this is unacceptable- I explained that I only tow a few miles around town and this shouldn't have happened if it was put back together correctly. After some back and forth discussion he covered the labor and got me the parts at cost (which I paid for) and fixed it again.

So I drop the trailer off, they fix it, I pick it up on Saturday afternoon. I drove from Brake Master to The Islander. I pulled my boat out of the water and take it back to storage. As I pull into my storage lot, I hear a loud noise, and see the bearing buddy blow out as I go around the corner. I stop and check it out and can shake the wheel- same problem I had before. ( I may have towed 10 miles) By this time its late in the day and Brake Master is closed so I just put it back in storage and figured I will deal with it in April when it warms up and we start boating again. I called the Manager and peaked on him some more and also stopped payment on the work they did ( I had to pay for parts).

So my question is- any idea whats causing the issue? Its the same wheel/ hub. All parts were replaced with new. New bearings, new pads, new rotor/hub. Its not hard to service these things, I have done them several times in the past. Does Brake Master have a bunch of lackeys that are working on stuff? Are they replacing with the wrong parts? or is there a bigger issue like a bent axle or something else going on that I need to look into and worry about?

Next July we are headed to Tahoe and bring the boat, its a long tow and I dont want to have any issues.

Thanks for your input.

Your spindle is fucked.

Tapered roller bearings...or any roller element bearing for that matter, need to have contact over the entire length of the roller element with the bearing race in order to support the load. With a straight spindle...and assuming the roller element, inner, and outer bearing races are all ground correctly such that the contact is correct...they'll damn near live forever with the appropriate pre-load.

If your spindle is bent to any degree between the inner bearing fit and the outer bearing fit...you'll be riding on one end or the other of the rollers...which means all the weight on that wheel has a bearing surface of about .020" times effectively nothing. Set a ball bearing on a piece of piece of glass...how much is touching the glass?...that's your bearing surface. Failure is imminent.

Also, tapered roller bearings, for best life, should be set a bit loose. Absolute best life is just a weeeee bit past zero freeplay with a misiscule amount of preload, but if you go have a nano-miniscule past that point, the bearing will fail immediately. So, it's best to settle for 95% bearing life and have a bit of freeplay. More freeplay actually increases the load capacity of the bearing in a single axis (to a point). Set your trailer bearings up so you can just barely feel a bit a play with the wheel off the ground and wiggling it, and if you have good grease seals and bearing buddies, and straight spindles, you'll likely not have any issues for the next 30 years if you treat 'em right. Use a good waterproof marine grease...not a moly based grease...moly greases are for 2 pieces of metal that rub together, not elements that roll over each other.


Edit: Damn...old ass thread back from the dead...didn't catch that. Anyway...hope the above info can help someone. I sat through lots of classes with major bearing manufacturers and that's what I learned.

 

[prorider]

Usually its those damn surge brakes dragging and gets it hot as hell in a hurry ,worst invention ever.

 

[RCDave]

I grease mine after each trip before parking boat. Never had a bearing failure. Imo others I know that own boats think once a year at best is enough grease.

I do the same. Never had a bearing go bad