The Future of Desert Storm

[Englewood]

It appears that many of the big players are no longer gonna be a part of it.

It looks like Low Altitude, Bananas, and many others are moving on...

If DCB decided to go to Tickfaw, there would be nobody left to run desert storm.

Has Desert Storm already seen its best days?

 

[oldschool]

 

[USMC2010]

140+/- out of 200max possible boats in the poker run and only 30 registered for the shootout this year. Why would the event be in jeopardy?

 

[RiverDave]

It appears that many of the big players are no longer gonna be a part of it.

It looks like Low Altitude, Bananas, and many others are moving on...

If DCB decided to go to Tickfaw, there would be nobody left to run desert storm.

Has Desert Storm already seen its best days?

I'd be happy to answer that question.. Not only no, but fuck no.

I had a guy tell me one time something so simple it's surprising that it isn't used as an example more often. He coached Pop Warner football, and every couple of years they would have some star quarter back. Well occasionally that quarter back would have to move to another town, and everybody would say "We are screwed!! How can we live without this guy?" and on and on.. Well every time someone else stepped up and they things continued on as normal.

What you are seeing right now is a bunch of guys swinging their dick around, and giving Nichols a hard time because he cancelled the shoot out on Sunday. It was hugely dissapointing to a lot of people there's no denying that. The fact is though when that call was made the weather wind was blowing pretty good, and with the predictions out here in the Desert you never know which way it's going to go. Nobody knew that the wind was going to decrease and end up turning into a really nice afternoon.

The pictures being posted of the smooth water with comments like "Are you kidding me?" don't paint an even remotely accurate picture. That morning at 8:00 am it was blowing hard and the waves were crashing on the beach of the nautical etc.. That decision was likely even made earlier than that. It takes a long long time to setup the shoot out course, stage the control boat / radar boat etc.. Not really fair to Jim to make it sound like he just cancelled the Shoot out. Even more unfair to make completely unfounded claims like "Oh people got their boats fixed, it's on.. Oh boats broke it's cancelled."

There was some big time boats that came out to run the shoot out this year that most everyone (including myself) didn't even know were here. Turbine Daytona, some 2500 HP per side Monster came from out of New York etc.. I don't think anyone wanted that shoot out to go off more than Jim, but he has to do what's right with the information sitting in front of him at the time. I'm sure had he known the wind was going to decrease like that, he would've loved to have finished it out.

What's the inverse of this? If he ran it, and a boat wrecked instantly people would say "Well it was windy, and the event promoter should have known better etc.." Jim already left the course at 1 mile shoot out / 1 mile shut down area, when everyone else shortened theirs to 3/4 mile (which I believe is what brought out some of the big unknowns, and likely contributed to Outerlimits & MTI showing up this year). With what happened last year, he made the right call not to gamble on safety at all.. Even if it was dissapointing to a lot of people. Everybody talks about what a great show it was last year with Predator / Dial 911 kind of going back and forth. You'll note nobody online really talks about the fact that both those boats got a little loose on the final runs trying to get just a little more. Doesn't take much more than that to have something end badly.

Next year DS will be back, and it will be bigger and better than ever. Honestly this year with the exception of the heat at the Street fair, was one of the best ones yet.

RD

 

[Englewood]

I'd be happy to answer that question.. Not only no, but fuck no.

I had a guy tell me one time something so simple it's surprising that it isn't used as an example more often. He coached Pop Warner football, and every couple of years they would have some star quarter back. Well occasionally that quarter back would have to move to another town, and everybody would say "We are screwed!! How can we live without this guy?" and on and on.. Well every time someone else stepped up and they things continued on as normal.

What you are seeing right now is a bunch of guys swinging their dick around, and giving Nichols a hard time because he cancelled the shoot out on Sunday. It was hugely dissapointing to a lot of people there's no denying that. The fact is though when that call was made the weather wind was blowing pretty good, and with the predictions out here in the Desert you never know which way it's going to go. Nobody knew that the wind was going to decrease and end up turning into a really nice afternoon.

The pictures being posted of the smooth water with comments like "Are you kidding me?" don't paint an even remotely accurate picture. That morning at 8:00 am it was blowing hard and the waves were crashing on the beach of the nautical etc.. That decision was likely even made earlier than that. It takes a long long time to setup the shoot out course, stage the control boat / radar boat etc.. Not really fair to Jim to make it sound like he just cancelled the Shoot out. Even more unfair to make completely unfounded claims like "Oh people got their boats fixed, it's on.. Oh boats broke it's cancelled."

There was some big time boats that came out to run the shoot out this year that most everyone (including myself) didn't even know were here. Turbine Daytona, some 2500 HP per side Monster came from out of New York etc.. I don't think anyone wanted that shoot out to go off more than Jim, but he has to do what's right with the information sitting in front of him at the time. I'm sure had he known the wind was going to decrease like that, he would've loved to have finished it out.

Next year DS will be back, and it will be bigger and better than ever. Honestly this year with the exception of the heat at the Street fair, was one of the best ones yet.

RD

Good to know...Better to be safe than sorry after all the poker run accidents last year.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Next year DS will be back, and it will be bigger and better than ever. Honestly this year with the exception of the heat at the Street fair, was one of the best ones yet.

RD

I was out at the Street Fair around 3 PM. Bad idea LOL.

 

[Meaney77]

Curious why they dont push the even out by a month or so? Weather always seems dicey right about now and everyone (promoter, participants, vendors, spectators, etc) put so much time and effort into making it successful seems like pushing the dates out is a no brainier.

We stayed home this year just because of this.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Curious why they dont push the even out by a month or so? Weather always seems dicey right about now and everyone (promoter, participants, vendors, spectators, etc) put so much time and effort into making it successful seems like pushing the dates out is a no brainier.

We stayed home this year just because of this.

Mothers Day, Memorial Day.. it starts getting dicey into May.

To be honest, had the event been a day or two sooner or a day or two later it would have been perfect conditions. had they had it on the traditional weekend, it would have been worse.

 

[guest hs]

I have a great idea for this event. Hold the event in February the weather is cooler no wind and hardly any boat traffic ?????

 

[Bpracing1127]

My .02 are I used to take 3 days off of work to attend this event. Last year I didn't take any extra days and only came out sat and missed Friday. This year I took Friday off and that was a great day of boating. I will from now on do a last min take days off if the weather plays nice. I spend way too much money to sit at the house and go this sucks. I am in favor of moving the weekend to a different time of year. Everyone knows mid April to mid May is horrible weather wise (wind) or its perfect. Vs any other time of year it's great. I'll take the great over the 50-50 chance of it working out. My vote is 2 weeks before memorials day.

 

[sirbob]

Desert Storm has become much more than a poker run or a shoot out.

The shoot out is / was only going to be for a select few. And the poker run itself is just really a "save the date" on the calendar for the kick off to the boating season.

If it has "seen it best days" its only because the city isn't doing enough to keep it going.

Guys like Low Altitude come and go all the time (in fact I hear he has been trying to dump that boat since his divorce last year/ it was for sale at last years event).

Same as Dave mentioned above, I work in sales - I can't tell you amount of times I heard a manager cry that he lost a top rep. Low and behold the newbe comes along and is selling more than the last guy in no time. The truth is no event like this is beholden to a small group.

Jim started it and if he keeps doing it or not - The city leaders would be criminal to let it go away now. BTW - in my option, the date is one of the things that makes it so attractive (even if the weather can be unpredictable).

Its the kick off to the season!

 

[28Eliminator]

Float the shootout date (wednesday, saturday or sunday), weather dependant. Everyone be on 24 hour notice..

 

[CLdrinker]

Float the shootout date (wednesday, saturday or sunday), weather dependant. Everyone be on 24 hour notice..

It's common sense like this that gets in the way of a perfectly good shit show.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

140+/- out of 200max possible boats in the poker run and only 30 registered for the shootout this year. Why would the event be in jeopardy?

But which 30?

There has been a TON of comments about folks come to see the big, fast, expensive hardware. If they decide to not risk a "Blow-out" and stay at their home lake, how long is the event viable? If its simply a party to start the season off, fine. But I bet there are some really disappointed crews of these fast, big programs guys that travels big miles, spent big dollars and go home without their shootout.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

But which 30?

There has been a TON of comments about folks come to see the big, fast, expensive hardware. If they decide to not risk a "Blow-out" and stay at their home lake, how long is the event viable? If its simply a party to start the season off, fine. But I bet there are some really disappointed crews of these fast, big programs guys that travels big miles, spent big dollars and go home without their shootout.

That is part of the deal with any hobby.

 

[done]

Float the shootout date (wednesday, saturday or sunday), weather dependant. Everyone be on 24 hour notice..

I agree, use the best day for the Shootout, maybe after the poker run on the same day if its great weather, Start the poker run earlier in the morning so you
would have that option.Friday, sat or sunday.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

That is part of the deal with any hobby.

Agree. But, why would anyone keep doing the same thing every year, at the same time, and expect a different result. You know what that is defined as...right?

How many folks on this board are disappointed that Predator isn't part of this any more? I know I am. Just his one single absence, is missed. Remove 10-15 of the big, fast top name "legend" boats. It becomes less and less interesting.

I have no dog in this fight, just seems illogical to NOT consider a more predictable time of year.

 

[Icky]

News article on it http://www.havasunews.com/news/dese...cle_989a1f2c-33b0-11e7-97b4-7f21aba16a02.html
The final event of the 2017 Desert Storm Poker Run and Shootout ? which had already been postponed a day ? was canceled early Sunday morning, concluding the week-long activities until next year.

None of the 34 registered participants were able to race in the Desert Storm Shootout this year due to wind gusts that created ?big swells? through the two-mile course from Site Six to Spectator Point, said organizer Jim Nichols.

?I?ve got a six-man buoy team out there just freezing right now and putting them in the water to fight these swells would be really painful,? he said around 6 a.m. on Sunday. ?And I talked to all of the top guns that would be running today and they said no.?

 

[USMC2010]

But which 30?

There has been a TON of comments about folks come to see the big, fast, expensive hardware. If they decide to not risk a "Blow-out" and stay at their home lake, how long is the event viable? If its simply a party to start the season off, fine. But I bet there are some really disappointed crews of these fast, big programs guys that travels big miles, spent big dollars and go home without their shootout.

You don't think that if that "30" weren't here that others would not participate? We just had one post a bit ago about how he doesn't anymore because the boats are too big to play with. If the few big money players don't come and adjustments were made I bet the overall profit/success would be minimally impacted (it is a charity event right?). I won't participate for 2 reasons, cost which I think is high to bring in the people that feel better the more they spend and the second reason, my 25 foot boat will beat the hell out of anyone on it and that isn't much fun. We learned that going up to Pirates Friday afternoon, it was not an enjoyable trip. I'm not afraid of change.

 

[Bobby V]

I have a great idea for this event. Hold the event in February the weather is cooler no wind and hardly any boat traffic ?????

I don't think the turnout will be very good with just the snow birds attending. And besides, that the same time as the balloon festival.

 

[headshothills]

I'd be happy to answer that question.. Not only no, but fuck no.

I had a guy tell me one time something so simple it's surprising that it isn't used as an example more often. He coached Pop Warner football, and every couple of years they would have some star quarter back. Well occasionally that quarter back would have to move to another town, and everybody would say "We are screwed!! How can we live without this guy?" and on and on.. Well every time someone else stepped up and they things continued on as normal.

What you are seeing right now is a bunch of guys swinging their dick around, and giving Nichols a hard time because he cancelled the shoot out on Sunday. It was hugely dissapointing to a lot of people there's no denying that. The fact is though when that call was made the weather wind was blowing pretty good, and with the predictions out here in the Desert you never know which way it's going to go. Nobody knew that the wind was going to decrease and end up turning into a really nice afternoon.

The pictures being posted of the smooth water with comments like "Are you kidding me?" don't paint an even remotely accurate picture. That morning at 8:00 am it was blowing hard and the waves were crashing on the beach of the nautical etc.. That decision was likely even made earlier than that. It takes a long long time to setup the shoot out course, stage the control boat / radar boat etc.. Not really fair to Jim to make it sound like he just cancelled the Shoot out. Even more unfair to make completely unfounded claims like "Oh people got their boats fixed, it's on.. Oh boats broke it's cancelled."

There was some big time boats that came out to run the shoot out this year that most everyone (including myself) didn't even know were here. Turbine Daytona, some 2500 HP per side Monster came from out of New York etc.. I don't think anyone wanted that shoot out to go off more than Jim, but he has to do what's right with the information sitting in front of him at the time. I'm sure had he known the wind was going to decrease like that, he would've loved to have finished it out.

What's the inverse of this? If he ran it, and a boat wrecked instantly people would say "Well it was windy, and the event promoter should have known better etc.." Jim already left the course at 1 mile shoot out / 1 mile shut down area, when everyone else shortened theirs to 3/4 mile (which I believe is what brought out some of the big unknowns, and likely contributed to Outerlimits & MTI showing up this year). With what happened last year, he made the right call not to gamble on safety at all.. Even if it was dissapointing to a lot of people. Everybody talks about what a great show it was last year with Predator / Dial 911 kind of going back and forth. You'll note nobody online really talks about the fact that both those boats got a little loose on the final runs trying to get just a little more. Doesn't take much more than that to have something end badly.

Next year DS will be back, and it will be bigger and better than ever. Honestly this year with the exception of the heat at the Street fair, was one of the best ones yet.

RD

I understand what your saying, but remember the giraffe comment... HAHAHA I know people are upset about the Shoot-out being canceled, but Dave, you know better than anyone that the organization of the Poker Run and the politics, recognition, drivers meeting recognition, and all the bullshit in between was a complete cluster F. This is what Im hearing from all of those people, has nothing to do with the Shoot Out being canceled, has to do with a ton of other stuff that didnt go over well, this included the participants of the poker run and the sponsors of the poker run. Everyone complained about the traffic during the poker run, it wasnt safe in areas, drivers didnt adhere to the drivers meeting rules, sponsors didnt get recognized at the drivers meeting or awards banquet. These are just a few things that I personally was involved in and share the same opinion as others on.. There was some seriously fucked up shit that went down this weekend... These guys that do this every year and have to go through this and spend money, time, etc.. They are done, its come to a point when its not worth the hassle, its become a hassle. Then toss in all this other BS, politics, traffic, near misses, etc, and now they throw their hands up...

Im not saying there wont be the next guy that steps up and keeps it going and takes their place, but until there is better organization, communication, driver accountability, people will continue to drop out. There were several things that did go off without a hitch, the Kruisin' for Kids was awesome, will will continue to do this every year we can. The Horizon Party was Awesome, the RDP Party was Awesome, the Poker Run... Sucked ass!! We wont do it again, as many others are claiming they wont either... Until there is better organization, control, etc, people will find other ways to spend their money.. Dont be surprised if you see a bunch of these guys opt for TickFlaw if the dates are close again next year...

 

[kiethco]

I've never been, I'm just a life long boater that's been watching from the sidelines every year. I wonder if a good estimate of the attendance is culled and other goodies like how far people travel along with the demographic of attendees. If anyone has that info running the analytics and reaching out would give a pulse of the event months out.
After watching this years hype leading up to the event I don't think it's peaked yet. What you may lose in high end boats could be made up in, as others have said, making this event the kick off for the season. What's in it for the guy with a 50-150k boat? There are plenty of those that could make a show and shine interesting. Poker run? I've never done one but would love to!
Knowing what I know, which ain't much, and knowing the boating community, I agree with most, this event will thrive. I'll be a noob out there next year.

 

[twocents]

Question -- I never made it over to Power in the Park at Windsor 4 -- How was it? A hit....just okay....or a miss?

 

[hallett21]

I understand what your saying, but remember the giraffe comment... HAHAHA I know people are upset about the Shoot-out being canceled, but Dave, you know better than anyone that the organization of the Poker Run and the politics, recognition, drivers meeting recognition, and all the bullshit in between was a complete cluster F. This is what Im hearing from all of those people, has nothing to do with the Shoot Out being canceled, has to do with a ton of other stuff that didnt go over well, this included the participants of the poker run and the sponsors of the poker run. Everyone complained about the traffic during the poker run, it wasnt safe in areas, drivers didnt adhere to the drivers meeting rules, sponsors didnt get recognized at the drivers meeting or awards banquet, title sponsor was thrown under the bus and publicly humiliated in front of everyone. These are just a few things that I personally was involved in and share the same opinion as others on.. There was some seriously fucked up shit that went down this weekend... These guys that do this every year and have to go through this and spend money, time, etc.. They are done, its come to a point when its not worth the hassle, its become a hassle. Then toss in all this other BS, politics, traffic, near misses, etc, and now they throw their hands up...

Im not saying there wont be the next guy that steps up and keeps it going and takes their place, but until there is better organization, communication, driver accountability, people will continue to drop out. There were several things that did go off without a hitch, the Kruisin' for Kids was awesome, will will continue to do this every year we can. The Horizon Party was Awesome, the RDP Party was Awesome, the Poker Run... Sucked ass!! We wont do it again, as many others are claiming they wont either... Until there is better organization, control, etc, people will find other ways to spend their money.. Dont be surprised if you see a bunch of these guys opt for TickFlaw if the dates are close again next year...

Shocked to hear this. Never participated in the poker run but always assumed with the amount of money coming into town that this event was run with the upmost professionalism.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

We were heading south out of Thompson Bay on Sunday morning and it was white capped. I was VERY surprised that the day turned out to be so nice. If the shoot out was at 2pm the conditions would have been perfect.

I think if what Chris said is true about sponsors not getting recognized or publicly humiliated, that is a major cause for concern. Those are the people funding this thing and if they don't get what they paid for then that will trickle out into the community and without sponsors, there is no Desert Storm.

I say just do the street fair and not have any shootout or poker run. Just a bad ass street show of awesome boats, industry vendors, some boating and a weekend of parties.

 

[rivermobster]

Agree. But, why would anyone keep doing the same thing every year, at the same time, and expect a different result. You know what that is defined as...right?

How many folks on this board are disappointed that Predator isn't part of this any more? I know I am. Just his one single absence, is missed. Remove 10-15 of the big, fast top name "legend" boats. It becomes less and less interesting.

I have no dog in this fight, just seems illogical to NOT consider a more predictable time of year.

Not me! LoL

I take a week off every year to go to this event. It's the beginning of boating season for me and I couldn't care less who shows and who doesn't!

I go to have a good time and catch up with with my friends on here.

It's a blast for me every year, and it will be just as much fun next year.

Till then...

 

[Sleek-Jet]

What sponsor was publicly humiliated and how?

 

[gmnhra]

I did the very first one of these years ago and continued until a few years ago when a 25 Daytona was just a bad idea for the poker run.
So now I enjoy Thursday on the street...always a great time..
And then cruise the pontoon (no I was not the guy in the middle of traffic...) down to the pump station on Friday and enjoy seeing gig fast stuff go by.
Saturday, I sit on my deck at the Islander and hope to see the shootout...

A couple of observations this year...
It seemed the distance between first group of boats was pretty wide...there was not much "side by side" running down to the springs...
After a burger and a cocktail (don't judge) at outer harbor, I cruised back up north. when leaving I noticed the card stop boat pulling up and heading home (maybe 1pm)..
The lake from outer harbor to copper canyon was flat as a pancake....even the "shootout " course was pretty flat..
Two thoughts...
For the Poker run, why not have give the first fast group (make the group bigger...say 30-40 boats) a chance to really run the lake. start the run in Thompson bay like it used to...put the first card at springs and the second back up in front of crazy horse...hold the second group until all/most of the first guys get back (at those speed what, 12 minutes???) then release the second group...
This would allow boats to run the course without oncoming traffic....
Send the first group north from crazy horse and make the "course" include traveling around the lake clockwise and put a card stop at landing...I have not thought out the next card stop but you get my drift...
The theme of this thought is to make the poker run last longer than 2 hours and use the whole day...staging and holding flights of boats would keep traffic down, might mitigate oncoming traffic conditions in narrow areas, and might improve safety...
What the hell do I know

OR

as suggested watch the weather and run the shootout after the poker run if Saturday or Sunday look sketchy...As I observed.. the poker run was done by 1pm..

all in all..great event...

always room for improvement

 

[headshothills]

Shocked to hear this. Never participated in the poker run but always assumed with the amount of money coming into town that this event was run with the upmost professionalism.

Trust me, we were shocked and mortified as well as humiliated also... You would think the level of organization and professionalism would be there, thats exactly what we thought... It needs to be ran/organized by a committee that can dedicate the time, resources, and authority needed to run this, you cannot have a single person, as a hobby, and being flown around on a weekly basis for their regular job and expect them to have the time and energy to pull something this big off.. Dont get me wrong, there was a lot of people that helped, Karl did an awesome job at the Street Fair, Teague did an awesome Job with K4K, but theres always room for improvement, and when you dictate how things will be and not listen to the people around you in order to help and make it better, everyone suffers....Which is what Im see as a result... Dont get me wrong, had a blast with everything BUT the poker run... and to pay $488 bucks to deal with what we dealt with, I can find much better ways to feel better about spending 488 bucks like giving it to K4K charity.... And that was just for 2 people for the poker run, there are others that paid and donated much much more than that, and for them to not be recognized, or have to deal with the same stuff, they share the same opinion...

 

[hallett21]

Trust me, we were shocked and mortified as well as humiliated also... You would think the level of organization and professionalism would be there, thats exactly what we though... It need to be ran/organized by a committee that can dedicate the time, resources, and authority needed to run this, you cannot have a single person, as a hobby, and being flown around on a weekly basis for their regular job and expect them to have the time and energy to pull something this big off.. Dont get me wrong, there was a lot of people that helped, Karl did an awesome job at the Street Fair, Teague did an awesome Job with K4K, but theres always room for improvement, and when you dictate how things will be and not listen to the people around you in order to help and make it better, everyone suffers....Which is what Im see as a result... Dont get me wrong, had a blast with everything BUT the poker run... and to pay $488 bucks to deal with what we dealt with, I can find much better ways to feel better about spending 488 bucks like giving it to K4K charity.... And that was just for 2 people for the poker run, there are others that paid and donated much much more than that, and for them to not be recognized, or have to deal with the same stuff, they share the same opinion...

I knew that Jim was the leader but I just assumed he was running a committee as you stated. The poker run alone should have at least 3 people running it. And you should always be listening to the participants if there are ideas to improve the event.

 

[TCHB]

This year the town seemed to have more people running around all week. I launched at 0630 and channel was allready 70% full with boats coming in by the droves. It seems more crowded and more HP boats than ever. There were a couple boats missing but other boats filled the spots. Had a good time and look forward again to next year.

I know the city must love the event with all hotels full and restaurants packed. I can not imagine how much fuel was pumped into cars and boats! This really helps our little city in the middle of no where.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Another thing to consider is most other poker runs are long events. What I mean by this is for example the key west poker run is over 180 miles long. Takes all day. With many stops for food and bsing. Havasu being only 20 something miles is border line too small for these boats. They spend lots of money to come and stay for a week to run there boat for a hour at a time. (Springs to pirates), as well as battle weather and have their boat sit on a trailer for one whole day. So DS needs to think outside of the box for the shootout/ poker run. To make it worth while for the other guys to come. Otherwise is a dcb regatta black socks a must.

 

[Carlson-jet]

Isn't this a fund raiser that One of the Nicest Men along with his lovely Wife and Family I have ever met promotes to raise funds for a good cause?

I don't want to go on much further other than to say what GOOD people do to help others should be rewarded much better then what I'm reading.

 

[Tank]

DS isn't going anywhere. Attendance swells and drops depending on a vast number of associated factors such as economy, date, etc. DS is also ever morphing and growing and adjusting to be better itself. Remember when it was just a lunch run to the springs on Friday and a poker run on Sat? Then for a couple years there were offshore races involved, then the idea of a shootout, the street party was added and took off, etc. It's always changing to hopefully make things better. Before the economy took a dump there was over 200 entrants, then it shrunk to just over 100 after the economy fell. In the beginning just getting 100 was a huge accomplishment. Like Dave and others say, people come and go. Manufacturers like the event but can't attend every year so they come and go too. Just the nature of the beast in an ever evolving industry. But no, DS isn't going anywhere unless Jim totally walks away but even then others would take the reigns.

 

[hallett21]

Isn't this a fund raiser that One of the Nicest Men along with his lovely Wife and Family I have ever met promotes to raise funds for a good cause?

I don't want to go on much further other than to say what GOOD people do to help others should be rewarded much better then what I'm reading.

This has also gone from a grassroots event to nationally covered in the boating community no?

Sounds like this event is beginning to outgrow the capabilities of current management. Not saying anyone needs to step down but possibly bring in more help.

Hard to bring in help though if you're not willing to hear new ideas. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. just going by whats being posted.

 

[Joker]

I say bring it to a real lake, like Mohave where there's room to air it out and seldom an issue with wind.

 

[shintoooo]

and seldom an issue with wind.

LOL

 

[Dirtbag]

The simple answer is to get feedback from the poker runners and shootout participants and sponsors. But you also need to be constrctive about the criticism. Send Jim an email with your thoughts on what was wrong what was good and what can use improvement. Anyone running a big show like this is bound to first, take it personal, and second want it to be better. There is no ? on the dollars spent by participants and sponsors. There is no question it is a huge event for the city. Then you have the beneficiaries from all the work.

If you are upset send Jim an email. Dont blow him up on one of THE hottest websites which jim im sure is a member here. He might want the help. You all think he needs the help. Maybe his pride gets in the way of asking. So many factors. But there is no way Jim meant to offend anyone. Best thing for all involved is to send Jim an email like i said above or for jim to send out a survey.

Anyone complaining on the call of cancelling the shootout can suck a fat one. It was windy as shit in the morning. Safety should always be first. I was definitely bummed but i would never want someone put in harms way for my entertainment.

 

[Tank]

Another thing to consider is most other poker runs are long events. What I mean by this is for example the key west poker run is over 180 miles long. Takes all day. With many stops for food and bsing. Havasu being only 20 something miles is border line too small for these boats. They spend lots of money to come and stay for a week to run there boat for a hour at a time. (Springs to pirates), as well as battle weather and have their boat sit on a trailer for one whole day. So DS needs to think outside of the box for the shootout/ poker run. To make it worth while for the other guys to come. Otherwise is a dcb regatta black socks a must.

You'd be surprised. I've done the KW poker run nearly every year since 2000 and have been doing the Havasu PR since the late 90's when it was the Hotboat poker run! There's a huge difference between that actually sets Havasu apart from all the other PR's in the county. KW and others, the destination is the poker run. You run your boat to KW and you're there. the vast majority of poker runners don't use their boat again unless they run out to the sand bar on Saturday. Other poker runs are very much the same. limited actual boat use. Havasu on the other hand, you have multiple days of running around the lake, going to havasu springs, pirates, topac etc. Your boat is actually your destination. Yes, the street party takes one day of actual boating days away but lets be honest, the street party is the single largest event of the poker run. It's the place to be on Thursday.

Havasu is an enigma and has morphed into a huge event from fairly humble beginnings. They're CONSTANTLY thinking outside the box, thus the ever changing events and formats. It's not going anywhere. people will always come. Anytime a "list of must do poker runs" comes along, DS is always on there. Boaters come and go and new ones come along who want to experience DS. :thumbsup

 

[Spudsbud]

Anyone with the "cahonies" to pull the plug knowing he's disappointing alot of people but does it for the safety of all involved , states volumes about the character and integrity of the gentleman.
Kudos to you Sir.

 

[Tank]

This has also gone from a grassroots event to nationally covered in the boating community no?

Sounds like this event is beginning to outgrow the capabilities of current management. Not saying anyone needs to step down but possibly bring in more help.

Hard to bring in help though if you're not willing to hear new ideas. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. just going by whats being posted.

The simple answer is to get feedback from the poker runners and shootout participants and sponsors. But you also need to be constrctive about the criticism. Send Jim an email with your thoughts on what was wrong what was good and what can use improvement. Anyone running a big show like this is bound to first, take it personal, and second want it to be better. There is no ? on the dollars spent by participants and sponsors. There is no question it is a huge event for the city. Then you have the beneficiaries from all the work.

If you are upset send Jim an email. Dont blow him up on one of THE hottest websites which jim im sure is a member here. He might want the help. You all think he needs the help. Maybe his pride gets in the way of asking. So many factors. But there is no way Jim meant to offend anyone. Best thing for all involved is to send Jim an email like i said above or for jim to send out a survey.

Anyone complaining on the call of cancelling the shootout can suck a fat one. It was windy as shit in the morning. Safety should always be first. I was definitely bummed but i would never want someone put in harms way for my entertainment.

Jim is EXTREMELY approachable, is always looking for constructive advise and more over is always willing to bring on volunteers!! People really think they have good ideas, no better way to see them come true than to get involved directly and volunteer!! :thumbsup

 

[Cray Paper]

Lots of good dialogue regarding your local poker run, it's awkward, but airing the issues will make it better if the people that put it on are willing to listen. You cant please everyone, but the people that pay should get what was promised. I don't know if that happened or not, but from the posts on this site it sounds like it didn't.

I had a similar experience at one of our local poker runs, in Lake Chelan. I paid for 4 people to attend the poker run, pre funk party, pre-run breakfast, lunch and after party dinner / open bar. My wife and I invited our best friends, the husband just happened to be a senior project exec for the company I work for and was my boss. The breakfast and dinner were a shit show, the food was gone when the events were supposed to start (hundreds of local "friends" showed up that didn't pay, one of the heavy set women tried to start a fight with my boss's 90 pound wife over a scrap of desert) and the bar was dry. I had to run everyone 4 miles back down the lake in heavy wind chop late in the day, tied the boat up at the hotel dock then tried to find a restaurant that wasn't packed. Not that big of a deal, but that weekend cost me 2K, and my friends thought it sucked. When I mentioned it on our local forums I caught a bunch of bullshit about how I should just be happy the event took place and I should stop whining.

 

[shueman]

Trust me, we were shocked and mortified as well as humiliated also... You would think the level of organization and professionalism would be there, thats exactly what we thought... It needs to be ran/organized by a committee that can dedicate the time, resources, and authority needed to run this, you cannot have a single person, as a hobby, and being flown around on a weekly basis for their regular job and expect them to have the time and energy to pull something this big off.. Dont get me wrong, there was a lot of people that helped, Karl did an awesome job at the Street Fair, Teague did an awesome Job with K4K, but theres always room for improvement, and when you dictate how things will be and not listen to the people around you in order to help and make it better, everyone suffers....Which is what Im see as a result... Dont get me wrong, had a blast with everything BUT the poker run... and to pay $488 bucks to deal with what we dealt with, I can find much better ways to feel better about spending 488 bucks like giving it to K4K charity.... And that was just for 2 people for the poker run, there are others that paid and donated much much more than that, and for them to not be recognized, or have to deal with the same stuff, they share the same opinion...

Maybe you should become a "volunteer", join up in the committee decisions, and help make the Event better ... Jim's group of dedicated volunteers work ALL YEAR on putting together these events ... many have been there throughout the years ... give it a try

 

[headshothills]

Maybe you should become a "volunteer", join up in the committee decisions, and help make the Event better ... Jim's group of dedicated volunteers work ALL YEAR on putting together these events ... many have been there throughout the years ... give it a try

:thumbup:

 

[SummitKarl]

Agree. But, why would anyone keep doing the same thing every year, at the same time, and expect a different result. You know what that is defined as...right?

How many folks on this board are disappointed that Predator isn't part of this any more? I know I am. Just his one single absence, is missed. Remove 10-15 of the big, fast top name "legend" boats. It becomes less and less interesting.

I have no dog in this fight, just seems illogical to NOT consider a more predictable time of year.

I know I am but it's not about the boat it's about missing my friend for the weekend I expect to see him and catch up, Desert Storm ceased being all about the boats along time ago (at least for me), yes the boats are the attraction but it's the friendships we've all made that draw us to come together each year and kick off a new boating season. That's what Desert Storm has become it's a time and place for all of us to gather around something we all love to do, I could fill that street with production boats now and still have one hell of a turn out because I really do believe the show is secondary to our desire to see and be with our friends and that is what will keep Desert Storm going for many years to come

 

[BasilHayden]

I know I am but it's not about the boat it's about missing my friend for the weekend I expect to see him and catch up, Desert Storm ceased being all about the boats along time ago (at least for me), yes the boats are the attraction but it's the friendships we've all made that draw us to come together each year and kick off a new boating season. That's what Desert Storm has become it's a time and place for all of us to gather around something we all love to do, I could fill that street with production boats now and still have one hell of a turn out because I really do believe the show is secondary to our desire to see and be with our friends and that is what will keep Desert Storm going for many years to come

Karl,

I know how hard everyone works, but as a multi year participant and an even longer attendee, there is a lot of good feedback in this thread. It was not very well organized for the poker run and the drivers meeting (please read this as painful). I also heard what seemed like a direct shot at a major sponsor, perhaps it was mis-worded or I wasn't in on the joke but if I was that sponsor I would walk and never come back. Also would have been nice to try a little to get names and boats right, but what the heck, I enjoyed having the only Howard 28 offshore ever built in the event. Seems they really like my 22 offshore and were willing to upgrade me to the 28 but didn't think the Bullet was PC enough.

Seriously though I understand the comments regarding so what if Low Altitude doesn't return, but I can honestly see the comments regarding unless you have a DCB, why come? I really hope those who care seriously think about all that has been said rather than stick their head in the sand. I love this event but it isn't everything it could be. Also stunning that the city dignitaries at the Saturday event totaled the City Manager... Where were the elected officials to welcome the folks who brought all this traffic into town to spend $.

Last, Maybe I missed it, but sure would have liked to learn about the Wed night party earlier than Thursday at registration, I cant have been the only one.

FYI, I hope you know, not calling out Karl, but do believe he has the ear of the right party that needs to hear this...

 

[Tank]

Agree. But, why would anyone keep doing the same thing every year, at the same time, and expect a different result. You know what that is defined as...right?

How many folks on this board are disappointed that Predator isn't part of this any more? I know I am. Just his one single absence, is missed. Remove 10-15 of the big, fast top name "legend" boats. It becomes less and less interesting.

I have no dog in this fight, just seems illogical to NOT consider a more predictable time of year.

Spoke with Gary over the weekend. He'll be back with another boat. Like I and others have said, people come and go, not everyone can make it every year.

 

[stephenkatsea]

1) Weds run with the SN kids continues to grow. 2) Street Party - Continues to improve. RD's contribution was epic this year. Although lack of Skaters was apparent. Have no idea what drove that. 3) Poker Run - It is not a closed course. The lake during the PR continues to be open to all boaters. I have no idea what it would take to change that. Reported lack of obeying of rules at the start doesn't help much. Yes in the past, seeing 8-10 of the best hauling ass down the lake, neck and neck, was great. But, those days seem to be gone, since the DCB roll over a few years ago. But, even then the lake remained open to the potential of some guy pulling his kids on a tube on the course. Open course, open lake. 4) Shoot Out - IMHO JN's call Sunday morning was correct. In the interest of safety, weather will always be a factor. One serious DS crash and that would likely be the end of DS. Should closed cockpit gas turbine boats run against open cockpit piston driven boats? ? I'm not sure. Desert Storm Shoot Out - Another open deal? If you've got it and want to run it, bring it.

Been watching this event since it was known as "Desert Thunder" (?) put on by Az Performance Boats (?). It has always been good. Although, some years are better than others. Ever watch a Super Bowl ?

And local favorites, returned to the event, will be a good thing.

 

[AzGeo]

and so, maybe this kind of event could cater to many more boaters by adding 'new flavors ' to the program .

The 'effort' currently given at all levels is incredible and I would hate to lose any of the 'big boats', but just incase the 'threats' become true, how about a plan that could reinvent the entire week of events .

Every time a boating event encounters 'Havasu's crazy winds', (IMO) the heads instantly fall off the chickens .

Outdoor events always need to deal the the elements, and no one can accurately predict what may come on this river .

How about, right off the bat, double the paid participation, by offering 3 Poker Runs within the 4 days of events . (with pre-planned variables for weather conditions) Set up 'texting groups' using the 3 poker run groups, and send out 'Official correct instant event info' via text multiple times during each day . (get a local phone store/provider to donate their services for this)

Opening up the 'Poker Run lifestyle' to many more boaters, while keeping participants entertained and happy . (more small/intimate events and parties every day/night, at or sponsored by local businesses)

The 'unlimited class' those 100 MPH +', the 'River Rat class' those who MUST go back to work on Monday (51 MPH to 99 MPH), and the 'party class' of under 50 MPH boats and crews that want to 'actually just participate in a Poker Run' .

Work with the Havasu Marine Association, to organize all three poker runs, stops, people, safety, etc ..

The entire lake would only require 'safety rules and safety patrols' during the 'unlimited Poker Run', and the other two classes would be operated under 'normal boating rules and practices' .

Open this next Desert Storm to everyone that has ever wanted to be a part of it, with the boat and crew they already have .

The 'card hands rules' remain with the same rules for each Run (independently), but add on new 'trophies' for 'best crew', 'best looking boat', 'best whatever' . Disperse the accolades to more participants than just the 'mega guys', by including EVERYONE .

All paid participants would be welcome to display their 'mojo' on Thursday night, from 'pontoon boats' to 'mega boats' and everyone in between .

Local businesses could 'sponsor a trophy' or 'enter their own boat', it's all for charity and fun .

It seems as though this program has been run to 'the highest of standards' in the past, and now some would voice questions as to 'quality of its operation', when the program has just faced one of it's most difficult 'weather effected events' .

It takes a lot of 'time money and effort' to put on a program like Desert Storm, it also takes similar

'time money and effort' to bring out a 'mega poker Run boat' .

What about some 'diversity', in order to keep this great event in Havasu ?

"Can't we all just get along" ?

 

[SummitKarl]

Karl,

I know how hard everyone works, but as a multi year participant and an even longer attendee, there is a lot of good feedback in this thread. It was not very well organized for the poker run and the drivers meeting (please read this as painful). I also heard what seemed like a direct shot at a major sponsor, perhaps it was mis-worded or I wasn't in on the joke but if I was that sponsor I would walk and never come back. Also would have been nice to try a little to get names and boats right, but what the heck, I enjoyed having the only Howard 28 offshore ever built in the event. Seems they really like my 22 offshore and were willing to upgrade me to the 28 but didn't think the Bullet was PC enough.

Seriously though I understand the comments regarding so what if Low Altitude doesn't return, but I can honestly see the comments regarding unless you have a DCB, why come? I really hope those who care seriously think about all that has been said rather than stick their head in the sand. I love this event but it isn't everything it could be. Also stunning that the city dignitaries at the Saturday event totaled the City Manager... Where were the elected officials to welcome the folks who brought all this traffic into town to spend $.

Last, Maybe I missed it, but sure would have liked to learn about the Wed night party earlier than Thursday at registration, I cant have been the only one.

so I guess I shouldn't tell you about the Tuesday Fun run to Priates cove

There are always things we can do better, I for one have allot of things I can do to improve what I do, but so much surrounds communication, we do our best to get it out there and on the website and news letters prior to the event short of calling each participant or spectator, even the lanyards on the bags have the complete schedule on them but yet hundreds upon hundreds of calls, when is this? when is that? it's over whelming at times to answer the same question over and over and over again when you know the person was given the info, I am not kidding even some/most participants don't even bother to read the rules they sign and say they have read or they just don't think those rules apply to them, I don't know which one it is but it happens all the time. I know Dave posted the Schedule on this site. I think it has more to do with our Cell phone society these days as no one seems to look past their phone for anything anymore, my best advice is to go to the Lakeracer website down load the schedule and bring it with you. About the city stuff I thought Charlie did well and was glad to see my very busy friend out of the office having a nice dinner at the park, I liked what he had to say and he showed us the city's never ending enthusiasm for Desert Storm (they do help us allot) The Mayor was out of town and I would much rather hear from the man that tells it like it is rather then someone telling you what you want to hear to get re-elected, yes Charlie is not the speaker The Mayor is but I still think he did a good job and was proud to have him at Desert Storm, never forget Charlie is one of us "Boater" screen name "Cityguy" he is the best and brightest hope we have to fend off government intrusion to the Lake