Tesla reveals semi-truck and new sports car

[SoCalDave]

You'll often hear automakers brag of a sports car's zero-to-60 performance but less often for a big-rig truck. On Thursday night, Tesla boasted of both.
Tesla revealed an all-new version of its Roadster sports car that can go from a stop to 60 miles an hour in 1.9 seconds, a figure that would make it the fastest-accelerating production car ever.


That was after Tesla unveiled its new semi-truck, which CEO Elon Musk said can go zero-to-60 in five seconds with an empty trailer. That's a figure usually associated with luxury sedans, not big trucks.

With a full load, the truck can still reach that speed in 20 seconds, according to Musk, much faster than any diesel-powered truck.

Only after talking about the truck's speed did Musk mention its range. It can go up to 500 miles with a full load at highway speeds, he said.

That's more than twice the distance of most trucking routes, Musk claimed, allowing a driver to make a round trip before recharging. A 300-mile version will also be available.

But truck drivers may still have some reservations.

Regardless of whether Musk is right about the typical length of trucking routes, 500 miles is still far less than diesel trucks can travel. And diesel fuel tanks can be refilled much more quickly than batteries can be recharged

The Roadster will have a range of 620 miles and a top speed of over 250 miles an hour. That would put it, at least, near the 261 mile-an-hour top speed of the $3 million Bugatti Chiron.

The Roadster will also be able to run a quarter mile from stop in 8.8 seconds, Tesla said. For comparison, the 840-horsepower Dodge Challenger Demon, a single-seat car engineered specifically for drag racing, manages it in just under 10 seconds.

Unlike the previous version of the Roadster, Tesla's first model which went out of production in 2012, this car will have four seats.

The Roadster will cost $200,000 and a $50,000 deposit will be required to reserve one.

It is not clear yet what the final price of the truck will be.

The semi's drive systems are guaranteed to last for 1 million miles, Tesla said. Thanks to the low cost of running it, buyers should make back the additional cost in just two years, Tesla claimed.

Inside the Tesla semi's cab, the driver is seated in the center -- rather than on the left or right -- with a large touch screen on each side.

Without a large diesel engine, the driver will have a roomier cab than in other trucks, Tesla said. The truck will also have an enhanced version of Tesla's semi-autonomous driving system, AutoPilot.

 

[McRib]

Isn' musk missing, the model 3 on 2000 of 50k, and a 20 billion in the hole problem?

 

[Gelcoater]

Isn' musk missing, the model 3 on 2000 of 50k, and a 20 billion in the hole problem?

Without new enticement like these, the Ponzi scheme would crumble.

 

[4Waters]

0-60 in 5sec, well I guess all the freight in the trailer will be broken all to shit.

 

[941Punk]

I really hope the truck changes the industry.

 

[Wicky]

I really hope the truck changes the industry.

I just hope the truck will get that asshole truck driver that is driving in the fast lane for 30 miles straight, out of my way.

 

[Enen]

Without new enticement like these, the Ponzi scheme would crumble.

I see Tesla cars on the road every single day. They are producing product albeit still in the red, but there is a viable product that is in the market. Tesla has made huge capital expenditures to ramp up production of a price-point product ( Model 3) which will keep their balance sheet from looking sexy until sales can be fulfilled. In fairness, I think it's a far stretch to call this enterprise a ponzi scheme.

 

[Bigbore500r]

That sports sedan is a bad mofo from a spec standpoint. Looks could be improved. They should call it the Demon smasher lol

 

[Gelcoater]

I see Tesla cars on the road every single day. They are producing product albeit still in the red, but there is a viable product that is in the market. Tesla has made huge capital expenditures to ramp up production of a price-point product ( Model 3) which will keep their balance sheet from looking sexy until sales can be fulfilled. In fairness, I think it's a far stretch to call this enterprise a ponzi scheme.

I suppose time will tell.

 

[SoCalDave]

That sports sedan is a bad mofo from a spec standpoint. Looks could be improved. They should call it the Demon smasher lol

Yeah 0-60 in 1.9 Sec and qtr mile in 8.8 is damn impressive.

 

[GRADS]

You haven't heard? Tesla is folding up....according to the RDP braintrust.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

The truck has been anticipated, but I wonder about yet another car before all the kinks are ironed out with the model 3 production.

Of.course the roadster appears to be in the same mold as the S and X, low volume hand built vehicles versus mass producer consumer car.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

The truck has been anticipated, but I wonder about yet another car before all the kinks are ironed out with the model 3 production.

Of.course the roadster appears to be in the same mold as the S and X, low volume hand built vehicles versus mass producer consumer car.

I'm betting the survival of Tesla will be dependent upon the Model 3 and the semi. If they work and sell, I bet that makes up their bottom line. Finally.

 

[ltbaney1]

the truck is impressive to me, but with only a 500 mile range, what is the charge time? my guess is Tesla will be the largest user shipping the batteries between facilitys. not sure what the normal range is on truck, but 500 sounds low to me?

 

[Gelcoater]

the truck is impressive to me, but with only a 500 mile range, what is the charge time? my guess is Tesla will be the largest user shipping the batteries between facilitys. not sure what the normal range is on truck, but 500 sounds low to me?

They carry what? 100 gallons? 120?

At 3.5-6mpg...
I imagine load and geography will play a big roll.

 

[grumpy88]

Was the 500 mile range determined on 2 year old batteries with 40 k lbs in a trailer dealing with head winds , hot and cold weather and grades ? Real life is what matters

 

[Meaney77]

the truck is impressive to me, but with only a 500 mile range, what is the charge time? my guess is Tesla will be the largest user shipping the batteries between facilitys. not sure what the normal range is on truck, but 500 sounds low to me?

I am not a trucker but disagree with the 500 mile deal for most routes.I would think that this range would dis courage most long haul companies due to distance and recharge times. However on the other hand I could see companies going this route as a way to maintain a safe work environment for truck drivers so they arent exceeding allowable drive time/shift. After 500 miles is up, truck gets recharged, driver sleeps and once charged can go back out on the road type deal.

I would also say that these will be introduced with a hefty price tag and would drive up shipping charges to the consumer.

 

[Gelcoater]

I am not a trucker but disagree with the 500 mile deal for most routes.I would think that this range would dis courage most long haul companies due to distance and recharge times. However on the other hand I could see companies going this route as a way to maintain a safe work environment for truck drivers so they arent exceeding allowable drive time/shift. After 500 miles is up, truck gets recharged, driver sleeps and once charged can go back out on the road type deal.

I would also say that these will be introduced with a hefty price tag and would drive up shipping charges to the consumer.

A lot of truckers team up, one driving and one sleeping...

 

[rvrrun]

Yeah 0-60 in 1.9 Sec and qtr mile in 8.8 is damn impressive.

...but not much fun without a bunch of noise

 

[SBMech]

Good luck trying to track it to show off.

I probably see more Teslas than any of you here in SB, I see 30+ a day. They just built a dealership here.

I have several customers with them. Lets just say that the "repairs" needed and given away are interesting.

Long term will tell the tale, but until you have ridden in one, seen the build quality and the squeaks/rattles etc...

Judge for yourself.

 

[hallett21]

How long can an individual trucker drive before mandatory rest?

 

[sirbob]

 

[pronstar]

Electric drive potentially reduces a huge expense for truck fleet operators - drivetrain maintenance and repair.

Even a series hybrid like a locomotive has driveability advantages over an engine/transmission combo.

 

[SBMech]

Yea well, keep in mind that this is all just "Estimated" since they are just prototypes.

How many high current consumption electric motors will go through unbelievable weather, while towing 80,000 lbs, for how many thousands of hours?

There is a reason that they still use diesel drive trains.

I still think he's all smoke and mirrors. Time will tell.

 

[latestart]

How long can an individual trucker drive before mandatory rest?

10 hours

 

[Uncle Dave]

You haven't heard? Tesla is folding up....according to the RDP braintrust.

I think it was referred to as "collapsing".

ON the 500 mile truck thing - that for sure will not replace a long haul truck.

What it will do is change the dynamic between between available city pairs where 500 miles is a full days drive anyway

Like- LA to San Fran up the 5 into and trips in and out of the ag zones where you cycles lots of short range trips.

It / electrics could completely replace shorter run port to rail headend loads as rail is still cheaper cross the country by a good bit.

UD

 

[DRYHEAT]

10 hours

Actually it’s 11 hours but the rules are so convoluted and ridiculous I don’t even want to try to explain it.

 

[4Waters]

It's 11hrs 10hrs if you're transporting hazmat.

 

[pronstar]

Yea well, keep in mind that this is all just "Estimated" since they are just prototypes.

How many high current consumption electric motors will go through unbelievable weather, while towing 80,000 lbs, for how many thousands of hours?

There is a reason that they still use diesel drive trains.

I still think he's all smoke and mirrors. Time will tell.

Electric motors in locomotives last longer than the diesel gensets that power them

 

[rrrr]

You haven't heard? Tesla is folding up....according to the RDP braintrust.

.

Building a $200,000 two seat sportscar doesn't change the fact they will lose almost $2.5 billion in 2017. Gearing up a line to build this car will cost a few more billion in losses. It will have to be hand built.

It's pretty much a terrible decision.

Building an expensive niche vehicle takes Tesla further away from mass production of a reasonably priced car, the one thing they have been saying is the key to eventual profitability. It's starting to look like Musk's ego is having an undue effect on the company's compass.

What's the recharge time on the semi tractor? Based on its range I'm guessing it'll be at least four hours.

That'll screw up local operations that swap drivers in trucks and run them up to twenty hours a day. Will this inordinate amount of downtime also make the truck unattractive to long haul OTR fleet operators? I think so. How much input was gathered from from big operators like Hunt, UPS, and Fed Ex?

 

[78Southwind]

the truck is impressive to me, but with only a 500 mile range, what is the charge time? my guess is Tesla will be the largest user shipping the batteries between facilitys. not sure what the normal range is on truck, but 500 sounds low to me?

If not teamed up with another driver I am pretty sure that a truck driver needs to take a break before 500 miles are up. From what I heard the batteries will take 30 minutes to charge so it's more of getting the charger infrastructure set up.

 

[SBMech]

Electric motors in locomotives last longer than the diesel gensets that power them

http://www.breitbart.com/california...tesla-model-s-drivetrains-replaced-60k-miles/

Starting to see some failures.....

On your point about traction motors in a train...what's the estimated cost of Tesla's Truck? If it's anything like current train traction motors at that Million mile marker it's going to see something like this quote from a train blog :

Changing a single traction motor combo, even if you have to jack the locomotive is much quicker. The only reason to change trucks is for BO wheels, worn brake rigging or more than one bad traction motor. Even a reconditioned truck with new wheels and rebuilt traction motors is not cheap. It will take 2 men about 160 hours to recondition a set of trucks. That translates roughly into $12,480.00 for labor and around $4000.00 for pins and bushings, add $5000.00 for each wheel set (the actual wheel prices are going sky high lately) and add about $7500.00 for each reconditioned traction motor. That makes a grand total of $91,480.00 for the reconditioned trucks.

Tis a quote from a decade ago...it's probably doubled now.

Think the trucking companies are going to be down with a 200k refit every million miles?

 

[thmterry]

They carry what? 100 gallons? 120?

At 3.5-6mpg...
I imagine load and geography will play a big roll.

My Kenworth has two 120 gallon tanks

 

[Sleek-Jet]

If not teamed up with another driver I am pretty sure that a truck driver needs to take a break before 500 miles are up. From what I heard the batteries will take 30 minutes to charge so it's more of getting the charger infrastructure set up.

We did some back of the envelope calculations on what it would take to serve one charging station for one truck.

Based on 800kW worth of motors and a roughly 7 hour range (500 miles at 70 mph), that pencils out to a 400 amp 3 phase requirement, on the primary side of the transformer to recharge the battery to a 400 mile range in 30 minutes. That is about 5 MW worth of grid capacity, for one recharge station.

The size of the conductor alone to handle that much amperage makes me scratch my head a bit.

Maybe I'm missing something how this is all supposed to work.

Essentially I'd have to build an entire substation to feed a handful of recharge stations for these vehicles, let's say an array of them at the loading dock of a warehouse. A fleet of a couple hundred trucks is going to be interesting. I really don't think most people have any idea how much energy is consumed in just transportation alone.

 

[Gelcoater]

My Kenworth has two 120 gallon tanks

Thanks. Was I even close on mileage?

 

[thmterry]

Thanks. Was I even close on mileage?

Yes, I can get 7 or 7.5 mpg if I keep my foot out of it but I am only pulling a toy hauler not a heavy commercial trailer.

 

[Gelcoater]

Yes, I can get 7 or 7.5 mpg if I keep my foot out of it but I am only pulling a toy hauler not a heavy commercial trailer.

That's actually better than I thought.

I had an F350 with a 460 that didn't get mych better than that with a toy hauler behind it.

 

[Uncle Dave]

That's actually better than I thought.

I had an F350 with a 460 that didn't get mych better than that with a toy hauler behind it.

No shit my old gasser dually would get 9 -7-8 towing anything.

UD

 

[pronstar]

I don't think rebuilding a train truck set really scales down to a rod tractor. A single steel wheel alone probably weighs as much as a tractor does.

But in any event it may not matter the cost because governments are legislating ICE's out, and you can be sure CA will be at the forefront of it

As far as recharging, battery swaps will reduce downtime but it'll still take a shitload of power to charge them back up, regardless of where it takes place.

 

[DRYHEAT]

We did some back of the envelope calculations on what it would take to serve one charging station for one truck.

Based on 800kW worth of motors and a roughly 7 hour range (500 miles at 70 mph), that pencils out to a 400 amp 3 phase requirement, on the primary side of the transformer to recharge the battery to a 400 mile range in 30 minutes. That is about 5 MW worth of grid capacity, for one recharge station.

The size of the conductor alone to handle that much amperage makes me scratch my head a bit.

Maybe I'm missing something how this is all supposed to work.

Essentially I'd have to build an entire substation to feed a handful of recharge stations for these vehicles, let's say an array of them at the loading dock of a warehouse. A fleet of a couple hundred trucks is going to be interesting. I really don't think most people have any idea how much energy is consumed in just transportation alone.

Not to mention who’s going to pay for all infrastructure .

 

[arch stanton]

My dump trucks that do stop and go city driving get 5 to 5.5 MPG. There are some hyper mile semi truck drivers that can get 9 mpg but they only run 60 MPH they are pulling box trailers and have to be thinking all the time about milage , one trick a learned from them is coasting down slight grades I tried it and was able to get a 1 MPG increase on the first day I tried it.
I thought the new semi was going to be a hydrogen fuel cell electric truck

 

[DRYHEAT]

Thanks. Was I even close on mileage?

Thanks. Was I even close on mileage?

Most newer road trucks average 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 MPG, terrain, wind and how much weight you’re hauling are the biggest factors. Most have a fuel capacity of between 220 and 300 gallons.

 

[Cray Paper]

I see Tesla cars on the road every single day. They are producing product albeit still in the red, but there is a viable product that is in the market. Tesla has made huge capital expenditures to ramp up production of a price-point product ( Model 3) which will keep their balance sheet from looking sexy until sales can be fulfilled. In fairness, I think it's a far stretch to call this enterprise a ponzi scheme.

I have been thinking about the Tesla dilema for a while. I think it will come down to people just trusting in the concept, just like people did for Amazon. For the youngsters in the crowd, the DOT.Com bust in the late 90's should have taken Amazon down, they took almost a decade to turn a profit but.. people kept buying the stock even with huge losses, year in and out. In most times, they would never have succeeded but Micro Soft, Apple, McCaw Cellular etc proved small tech companies could turn in to giant killers.

Their is no logical reason Amazon made it out of the 90's, other than optimistic speculation and a guy with a vision.

 

[78Southwind]

We did some back of the envelope calculations on what it would take to serve one charging station for one truck.

Based on 800kW worth of motors and a roughly 7 hour range (500 miles at 70 mph), that pencils out to a 400 amp 3 phase requirement, on the primary side of the transformer to recharge the battery to a 400 mile range in 30 minutes. That is about 5 MW worth of grid capacity, for one recharge station.

The size of the conductor alone to handle that much amperage makes me scratch my head a bit.

Maybe I'm missing something how this is all supposed to work.

Essentially I'd have to build an entire substation to feed a handful of recharge stations for these vehicles, let's say an array of them at the loading dock of a warehouse. A fleet of a couple hundred trucks is going to be interesting. I really don't think most people have any idea how much energy is consumed in just transportation alone.

I don't pretend to understand much of this but from what I heard this is off grid which seems pretty crazy to me. Expected cost of electricity will be $.07 per kWh.

 

[rrrr]

If not teamed up with another driver I am pretty sure that a truck driver needs to take a break before 500 miles are up. From what I heard the batteries will take 30 minutes to charge so it's more of getting the charger infrastructure set up.

There's no fuggin way that battery is going to charge in 30 minutes. It has to be four or five times bigger than a Model S battery, which weighs 1,200 lbs and takes a bit over an hour to charge.

The heat generated by running that much current into the truck battery would be huge. Li-po or Li-ion or whatever they're using would overheat quickly. I'm not making this up, trying to charge the battery in 30 minutes would burn it down. Basic electrical engineering calculations make this a fact. The laws of physics don't care who Tesla or Elon Musk is.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had to design a glycol battery cooling system to run during a charge taking several hours. That means running a glycol pump and a heat exchanger pump and fan.

That estimated weight of 5,000 lbs makes the battery swap idea suspect. That's a hella bunch of work if the operator is running a fleet of 100 trucks. Not only that, the operator would have to buy a second battery for each truck. It'll cost at least $20-30 grand, if not more.

Then there's the manpower and money needed to pull that 5,000 lb battery and replace it during a maintenance shift. The operator of a hundred truck fleet would have to hire about 200 new employees, buy at least 30 lifts that'll move 5,000 lbs, purchase at least 35 480 volt 3 phase chargers, install the 3-4 mW electrical service, and 35 200 amp branch circuits to power the chargers.

The infrastructure would easily cost $20-30 million. Sure, the operator could stagger battery swaps and reduce the cost, but remember, many city distribution center routes run during the daytime to coincide with the operating hours of retail outlets.

Taking all this into consideration shows the hurdles ahead of this enterprise. I suppose Tesla carried out extensive market studies and determined there are companies interested in the truck, but Jeezus it sounds like a fucking huge investment would be required to run a fleet of them.

I appreciate the work Sleek Jet did to determine some of the electrical requirements for a substantial installation.

 

[rrrr]

I don't pretend to understand much of this but from what I heard this is off grid which seems pretty crazy to me. Expected cost of electricity will be $.07 per kWh.

I think you should look at the information linked below. There's no way power will be obtained for $0.07 per kWH, off peak or not.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a

 

[78Southwind]

Here is a guys video of him going for a ride in the 2020 Roadster. I have been following this guy for around a year and he ended up getting a 100% discount for the future Roadster for referring people to buy Tesla S and X's.

 

[78Southwind]

I think you should look at the information linked below. There's no way power will be obtained for $0.07 per kWH, off peak or not.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a

The Megachargers for the Semi's will be solar which will charge the batteries 80% (400 miles) in 30 minutes. Just repeating what I heard and read. I will double check the wholesale price of $.07 per kWh.

 

[rrrr]

The Megachargers for the Semi's will be solar which will charge the batteries 80% (400 miles) in 30 minutes. Just repeating what I heard and read. I will double check the wholesale price of $.07 per kWh.

I would be interested in reading that. That claim is even nuttier. I don't know exactly how many kW per SF the contemporary solar panels put out, but the array would be fuggin huge to produce the current required to charge the battery in hours, much less 30 minutes.

 

[78Southwind]

Out of Elon's presentation...