Temporarily Suspended Longshoremen Strike

[Angler]

OCTOBER SURPRISE !!!!

I think the October surprise will be Biden stepping down.

 

[Andy B.]

The most disheartening aspect of this ordeal is that ONE GUY is responsible for effecting so many lives and businesses. It's criminal...

Kind of like Fauci?

 

[Dan Lorenze]

Some people are great craftsmen, but suck at negotiating compensation. For those people, the Union is worth its fees.

My Cinematographers union is as powerful as the Jelly of the month club.

 

[Kachina26]

My Cinematographers union is as powerful as the Jelly of the month club.

Right up there with rail unions.

 

[Bobby V]

The most disheartening aspect of this ordeal is that ONE GUY is responsible for effecting so many lives and businesses. It's criminal...

Doesn’t the membership have a say in the CBA. I know we did during our contract negotiations.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Two cents, worth less:

IMHO the optics are really bad for the Longshoremen. The comments made about crippling the country are ill timed considering the current events.

I understand the desire to protect jobs and gain fair wages, but the message and delivery are poorly crafted. Regarding the resistance to automation, that is not a battle that can be won by brute force. Sure in the short term they can be disruptive, but that leverage will impact the court of public opinion.

They may be better served to insure the Longshoremen maintain an opportunity to operate, repair, maintain and install that equipment rather then attempt to prevent progress.

 

[Dunerking]

My Cinematographers union is as powerful as the Jelly of the month club.

Same here for SAG and Local 80 (Grip Union)…and the way our industry is going I hope I can make it to the finish line.

 

[Tamalewagon]

I think the union knows that the Dems are between a rock and a hard place on this, and will do anything to get the port/union to settle.

It would be a quick and painless victory that she will claim if so.

 

[NeedlesRat]

Same here for SAG and Local 80 (Grip Union)…and the way our industry is going I hope I can make it to the finish line.

My wife is local 705, and of everyone she knows, she’s the only one working. Once this show ends next month I’m worried because she has nothing lined up, and it’s very quiet out there for work.

 

[17 10 Flat]

Two cents, worth less:

IMHO the optics are really bad for the Longshoremen. The comments made about crippling the country are ill timed considering the current events.

I understand the desire to protect jobs and gain fair wages, but the message and delivery are poorly crafted. Regarding the resistance to automation, that is not a battle that can be won by brute force. Sure in the short term they can be disruptive, but that leverage will impact the court of public opinion.

They may be better served to insure the Longshoremen maintain an opportunity to operate, repair, maintain and install that equipment rather then attempt to prevent progress.

Maybe they can learn to code....wait didn't I see something like that before???

 

[HCP3]

My wife is local 705, and of everyone she knows, she’s the only one working. Once this show ends next month I’m worried because she has nothing lined up, and it’s very quiet out there for work.

 

[EmpirE231]

Union bosses be like...

 

[CarolynandBob]

Unions are nothing but kidnappers holding the American people hostage.

 

[bocco]

So looking through this thread, it looks like the long shoremen are not really under paid. The numbers I would like to see are total compensation. In particular I would love to see the pension numbers. I think a lot of workers with a pension don't realize that they are making double their paycheck. It's not unreasonable for a guy to start a union job at 20 years old. Work 30 years to 50 years old. Then get a check for another 30 years or maybe more if you are lucky.

And my general opinion about all unions is that they should not have a say so in how the companies run their business. No say so on automation or AI. If your work force becomes obsolete it's your problem. Train them up to do new jobs.

No say so on where a car company builds which cars. If GM wants to close a factory it's a business decision.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Maybe they can learn to code....wait didn't I see something like that before???

That's a pretty good metaphor, but not realistic, because AI is going to deskill that at a rapid rate and that gets off shored.

The middle class as we remember it is likely going to disappear in my lifetime. People need to be setting realistic expectations for income opportunity with their kids. The picture we have in our heads of dad coming home with his lunch box from his manufacturing, blue collar job, to his white picket fence and wife and 2.5 kids with a newer Chevy in the driveway are evaporating.

We are truly in a global marketplace. If you live in an expensive geographic location, you will need to adjust income and lifestyle expectations, be an exceptional entrepreneur, process a highly desirable complex and defensible skill, or be a criminal.

 

[Englewood]

Question - Do the union leaders/negotiators still get paid during a strike?

 

[17 10 Flat]

That's a pretty good metaphor, but not realistic, because AI is going to deskill that at a rapid rate and that gets off shored.

The middle class as we remember it is likely going to disappear in my lifetime. People need to be setting realistic expectations for income opportunity with their kids. The picture we have in our heads of dad coming home with his lunch box from his manufacturing, blue collar job, to his white picket fence and wife and 2.5 kids with a newer Chevy in the driveway are evaporating.

We are truly in a global marketplace. If you live in an expensive geographic location, you will need to adjust income and lifestyle expectations, be an exceptional entrepreneur, process a highly desirable complex and defensible skill, or be a criminal.

Not sure if you recall that was a Obama phrase when the auto companies were filing for bankruptcy, He made sure the union folks were taken care of and when the salaried people wanted some relief he said, learn to code.

 

[CLCookie]

Longshoreman Union lead is making near a million a year. He needs to justify his job by creating havoc.

I am not a Union fan, in my opinion they care more about the union than its members. Unions were created due to workplace safety and members rights. Now they are political activist, if they cared about the members political affiliation, they would certainly donate all that money differently.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Never been in a union , never will so I know little about the operations . When I was a salaried worker or hourly I would hope my employer /Boss would feel I was doing a good job and raise my pay based on merit or.......... I would ask (not demand) for a raise .........

 

[clarence]

The picture we have in our heads of dad coming home with his lunch box from his manufacturing, blue collar job, to his white picket fence and wife and 2.5 kids with a newer Chevy in the driveway are evaporating.

AI will be able — is already able — to remove millions of man-hours from a wide range of white-collar work, flooding the labor market with redundant human operatives. But what of tradesmen?

Plumbing, heating, wiring, roofing, domestic repair and renovation? Housebuilding, electricians’ work, gardening, mowing, plastering, bricklaying, tiling, furniture removals, road-mending, ditch-digging, vehicle maintenance and repair? What of the catering trades, cooking and waiting-on-table? What of cleaners, nannies, nurses, hairdressers, roofers, bouncers, dustmen, foresters and dog-walkers?

Will artificial intelligence lead to greater appreciation of ‘working class’ jobs?

Could artificial intelligence make the domestic plumber one day be better regarded and better paid than the jobbing lawyer?

thespectator.com

People who work with their hands have some advantages.

If you want something done in the material world, you still need people.

(I replaced a toilet seat some time back while pondering these issues and reflected that neither an AI nor a worker in Bangalore could have taken that job.)

A lot of young Americans, especially males, are forgoing traditional college to enter the trades, as welders, plumbers, HVAC technicians and the like.

That’s probably smart. AI won’t be able to replace those jobs.

As Brian Wang notes, robots probably will, one day — but that day is nowhere near as close.

The white-collar class derided mass layoffs among the blue-collar workers. It’s about to feel their pain

Companies are already beginning to lay off white-collar jobs for artificial intelligence, according to Post columnist Glenn H. Reynolds.

nypost.com

 

[BHC Vic]

So looking through this thread, it looks like the long shoremen are not really under paid. The numbers I would like to see are total compensation. In particular I would love to see the pension numbers. I think a lot of workers with a pension don't realize that they are making double their paycheck. It's not unreasonable for a guy to start a union job at 20 years old. Work 30 years to 50 years old. Then get a check for another 30 years or maybe more if you are lucky.

And my general opinion about all unions is that they should not have a say so in how the companies run their business. No say so on automation or AI. If your work force becomes obsolete it's your problem. Train them up to do new jobs.

No say so on where a car company builds which cars. If GM wants to close a factory it's a business decision.

I would have to research but I think the average number of years a carpenter receiving a full pension lives is 5 years. Most probably won’t get a full pension. Every hour I work I put money into the pension fund. That money is invested. I think our fund is currently 105% funded. If I could get 6-8k a month for 30 years on top of my annuity and 401k I think I’ll do ok in retirement. Kind of my why would I want to start my own shop and risk that way of thinking. I’ll have a full 30 years at 45. So I’ll finish this and then MAYBE go out on my own or maybe just keep riding the wave and building that pension to 10k a month for me when I retire I no longer have medical. Soooo at 45 maybe I’ll go teach at the prison and get calpers. Maybe start my own business I dunno but it’s nice to have a couple options. I just pray I’m able to get there.

 

[HBCraig]

One of the freight guys I know told me something interesting when I asked about Port Hueneme
He said the break bulk ships won't be allowed in but the RO/RO boats can likely offload. I wonder why

 

[Sportin' Wood]

AI will be able — is already able — to remove millions of man-hours from a wide range of white-collar work, flooding the labor market with redundant human operatives. But what of tradesmen?

Plumbing, heating, wiring, roofing, domestic repair and renovation? Housebuilding, electricians’ work, gardening, mowing, plastering, bricklaying, tiling, furniture removals, road-mending, ditch-digging, vehicle maintenance and repair? What of the catering trades, cooking and waiting-on-table? What of cleaners, nannies, nurses, hairdressers, roofers, bouncers, dustmen, foresters and dog-walkers?

Will artificial intelligence lead to greater appreciation of ‘working class’ jobs?

Could artificial intelligence make the domestic plumber one day be better regarded and better paid than the jobbing lawyer?

thespectator.com

People who work with their hands have some advantages.

If you want something done in the material world, you still need people.

(I replaced a toilet seat some time back while pondering these issues and reflected that neither an AI nor a worker in Bangalore could have taken that job.)

A lot of young Americans, especially males, are forgoing traditional college to enter the trades, as welders, plumbers, HVAC technicians and the like.

That’s probably smart. AI won’t be able to replace those jobs.

As Brian Wang notes, robots probably will, one day — but that day is nowhere near as close.

The white-collar class derided mass layoffs among the blue-collar workers. It’s about to feel their pain

Companies are already beginning to lay off white-collar jobs for artificial intelligence, according to Post columnist Glenn H. Reynolds.

nypost.com

In my previous life I was a Plumber. I started in the ditch, became a design engineer and ultimately a contractor and small business owner. We built production housing in Southwest RivCo. I was ruined in 2008, I left the trades. The plumbing things resonates with me, I will need to be starving to go back to that trade. It is terribly hard to make profit. cash flow is easy, but it is a trick to make profit. Too much risk if you are legit and not doing it under the radar.

The problem with the trades in high density urban areas is the massive flood of immigration. The young men who flooded over the border the last 3.5 years are going to erode the value of the skilled labor jobs . It's a triple whammy. White collar gets killed by off shoring and AI, Trademen get crushed by a flood of hungry immigration, and manufacturing gets automated.

I used my vision of the 50's manufacturing dad as an example, but IMHO the entire middle class is going to get wiped out. If you don't come from a family with some money, it is going to get really hard to climb out of the pit of poverty. Even what we might consider upper middle income professions are getting beat up with the student loan costs. I've got two kids, both with exceptional careers. Both are just getting by and require help from us parents from time to time with larger purchases, like a house or business start up. It is unlikely we will have much for grandchildren because they can't afford kids.

 

[Bobby V]

One of the freight guys I know told me something interesting when I asked about Port Hueneme
He said the break bulk ships won't be allowed in but the RO/RO boats can likely offload. I wonder why

That seems odd since the west coast ports are in a different union and shouldn’t be affected. Unless the ship was supposed to unload in the gulf or east coast.

 

[2Driver]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1840770964314820647

Fuck that threat.
Im surprised this didnt backfire on him, threatening the citizens of this country. There are better ways to say we deserve a raise.

BTW That guys salary is $728,000

 

[traquer]

What is the work that "longshoremen" actually do?

Sounds to me that they don't actually build anything. Machinery and automation can outperform humans in many ways, as seen in the industrial revolution.

The guys who design the machines, set them up and repair them will always be fine. The ones that are just doing repetitive labor, not so much. Sad but true. If there was an artesian or craftsman side to longshoreman than I'd agree on keeping them around, but it seems like the industry is simply moving on.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Fuck that threat.
Im surprised this didnt backfire on him, threatening the citizens of this country. There are better ways to say we deserve a raise.

BTW That guys salary is $728,000

It would be sweet if someone was to cripple him.

 

[CLdrinker]

As a High Voltage Lineman for 40 years I'll argue that.

As a guy that supplies you work orders I know you guys know everything and walk on water while pissing excellence Your not to be fucked with.

 

[CLdrinker]

Question - Do the union leaders/negotiators still get paid during a strike?

Yes

 

[Sandlord]

6 hour workdays and 75$ per hour to drive a forklift.
Fuck yeah, I’m in.


*just something I read on another site

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I wish my union had balls like this. These guys aren’t fighting for the money as much as to keep automation out. Most are ignorant when it comes to this, but when the longshoremen are replaced with automation, that’s billions a year no longer circulating in the economy. Next the second part of getting stuff from the shore to the stores is the railroad, they’re already pushing us out of the cabs as best they can, now take those billions out of the economy and you’ll see construction drop, next Walmart drops, new cars drop ….. it goes on till there’s nothing left.
I’ve heard they have some collective bargaining going on wages but the true fight is again trying to keep labor jobs.

 

[Done-it-again]

I think the October surprise will be Biden stepping down.

I said this in the dungeon and was told no way that Kamal toe would be the 47th prez and Trump will need to change his number to 48....

 

[Done-it-again]

Fuck that threat.
Im surprised this didnt backfire on him, threatening the citizens of this country. There are better ways to say we deserve a raise.

BTW That guys salary is $728,000

He pulled 900k as he gets 160k from another trade union

 

[clarence]

I wish my union had balls like this. These guys aren’t fighting for the money as much as to keep automation out. Most are ignorant when it comes to this, but when the longshoremen are replaced with automation, that’s billions a year no longer circulating in the economy. Next the second part of getting stuff from the shore to the stores is the railroad, they’re already pushing us out of the cabs as best they can, now take those billions out of the economy and you’ll see construction drop, next Walmart drops, new cars drop ….. it goes on till there’s nothing left.
I’ve heard they have some collective bargaining going on wages but the true fight is again trying to keep labor jobs.

While traveling by car during one of his many overseas travels, Professor Milton Friedman spotted scores of road builders moving earth with shovels instead of modern machinery. When he asked why powerful equipment wasn’t used instead of so many laborers, his host told him it was to keep employment high in the construction industry. If they used tractors or modern road building equipment, fewer people would have jobs was his host’s logic.

“Then instead of shovels, why don’t you give them spoons and create even more jobs?” Friedman inquired.

 

[Done-it-again]

Is LA still open?

Long beach is, but I have container sitting since the 26th and the broker cant get a driver an appointing to pick it up....Not sure if they are delaying it on purpose or just a coincidence

 

[Todd Mohr]

Looks like Harold Dagget is leading the way to port automation, he may win this round but I think he's hurting the Longshoreman in the future. If this lasts long the support for the workers will erode quickly. You can't stop progress and pissing off the country will not gain sympathy when the jobs are eliminated. JMHO

 

[farmo83]

Looks like Harold Dagget is leading the way to port automation, he may win this round but I think he's hurting the Longshoreman in the future. If this lasts long the support for the workers will erode quickly. You can't stop progress and pissing off the country will not gain sympathy when the jobs are eliminated. JMHO

This is the truth.

A few years ago there was a big deal.about employees in our office cafeteria wanting 15 an hour.

90 days later it was full of kiosk machines

 

[rrrr]

Harold is living large on those union dues.

Union boss who threatened to ‘cripple’ economy lives in luxe 7,000 square-foot mansion

Photos taken by drone on Tuesday show the British luxury car parked with its top up outside what appears to be a five-car garage attached to his 7,136-square-foot, Tudor-style home located on a 10-…

nypost.com

 

[ConcreteDr]

How many weeks can these folks go without a pay check ?

Months ??

 

[evantwheeler]

Longshoreman strike, Boeing strike, these jackasses need a tour of Detroit and suburbs to see where their future is heading.

 

[rrrr]

What is the work that "longshoremen" actually do?

This reminded me of a Saturday on the Houston Ship Channel docks of Gulf States Toyota around 1978. I was doing a remodel on the pier office, and a rollon-rolloff car carrier from Japan had docked and began discharging Corollas and other models. I walked over to take a look, having never seen a RORO up close.

The Japanese workers drove the cars off the ship and got out, and Port longshoremen got in and drove the hundreds of cars to a huge parking lot.

The Japanese were wearing blue coveralls, black steel toe shoes, a white bump cap, and safety glasses. They had a lanyard around their necks with a whistle attached. Those guys were efficient machines.

The longshoremen were almost to a man wearing dirty clothes, unshaven, many looked hungover, and they didn't bother to stop chain smoking while they drove the new cars. No safety gear was in sight.

Just an observation.

 

[rrrr]

Why??? Serious question. I’m good at what i do and I don’t want to wear bags anymore. Those days are done. I want to earn what I’m worth right here. Union or non union I don’t care I should be paid more for what I do. Only problem is there’s no way in hell I’d make anywhere near what I do non union. Non union doesn’t even have an apprenticeship. But again this isn’t a union be non union this is what do I actually deserve to make and what does it take to live comfortably. Again 200k in California is not a lot and saying someone who wants 200k is the problem is a little unfair

Dude, you're a welding instructor.

 

[Todd Mohr]

What's stopping the ports from automating now, I'd hope they have been thinking about it for months knowing this strike was going to happen. If I were in automation sales I would be calling daily, maybe that started 6 months ago. Don't get me wrong I'm not for people losing jobs, but this is gonna happen at some point to some degree. I know it would take years to convert to automation, might make sense to start at a small scale now before the new contract is signed. Harold might not be in as good a position as he thinks he is.

 

[BHC Vic]

Dude, you're a welding instructor.

No… if I were anything im a carpenter. Today I was a welding instructor. In a couple weeks I’ll be an interior systems instructor, then an osha and Red Cross instructor, then a procore and sketch up instructor. At the end of the day I’m a guy that’s made a living hanging drywall in the union. It’s what I do for money, not what I am.

 

[Angler]

What's stopping the ports from automating now, I'd hope they have been thinking about it for months knowing this strike was going to happen. If I were in automation sales I would be calling daily, maybe that started 6 months ago. Don't get me wrong I'm not for people losing jobs, but this is gonna happen at some point to some degree. I know it would take years to convert to automation, might make sense to start at a small scale now before the new contract is signed. Harold might not be in as good a position as he thinks he is.

Union is demanding way too much. Automation will happen sooner or later.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

What's stopping the ports from automating now, I'd hope they have been thinking about it for months knowing this strike was going to happen. If I were in automation sales I would be calling daily, maybe that started 6 months ago. Don't get me wrong I'm not for people losing jobs, but this is gonna happen at some point to some degree. I know it would take years to convert to automation, might make sense to start at a small scale now before the new contract is signed. Harold might not be in as good a position as he thinks he is.

Do any municipal projects happen that fast?

 

[Todd Mohr]

Do any municipal projects happen that fast?

I would say no, but in 5 years or whenever the new contract is up they could be prepared to take a step towards automation. Maybe Harold knows that and is just getting while the getting is good, who knows what is going on behind closed doors. Making Americans suffer does not sit right, and his comments about crippling us is going to bite him at some point.

 

[zhandfull]

How many weeks can these folks go without a pay check ?

Months ??

One week will be painful for most port workers. Four weeks will start affecting their credit report.

 

[Big B Hova]

No… if I were anything im a carpenter. Today I was a welding instructor. In a couple weeks I’ll be an interior systems instructor, then an osha and Red Cross instructor, then a procore and sketch up instructor. At the end of the day I’m a guy that’s made a living hanging drywall in the union. It’s what I do for money, not what I am.

So your not a board monkey....

 

[BHC Vic]

So your not a board monkey....

I’ve spent more of my life as a board donkey than I have welding