SoFlo Boat Accident follow up story……….

[C-Ya]

This was in this mornings paper. I thought some of you would find it interesting. Personally………. I think alcohol was involved. The 60 empty containers is how I come to that conclusion. Here is the story and pic of boat.

 

[stephenkatsea]

He was never tested for alcohol? Yet, a Miami Dade County firefighter said he appeared intoxicated when pulled out of the water. Plus the 60 bottle deal. Odd.

 

[rivrrts429]

“Appearing” intoxicated is subjective. It’s almost like when a cop says they “smell” something so they then can search your call. Everyone’s perception is completely unique just like taste in food.

The empty can/bottle thing doesn’t mean shit either. Everytime I tie a trash bag to a cleat on the boat when we’re beached I end up with a bag of empty soda and beer cans and I rarely if ever drink on the water.

This very well could be an accident and would be equally devastating to convict a potentially innocent man.

I have no idea if he’s guilty or not and the eyewitness accounts aren’t good but two years later and witness accounts can change drastically.

The firefighter saying he seemed intoxicated could also be from the captain being thrown from the boat during the accident. If you’ve ever been pitched from a vessel at speed you’d be disoriented too.

It doesn’t seem they have much of a case and the DA succumbed to media and family pressure. Would be unfortunate if he indeed is innocent…

 

[FlyByWire]

If you don’t get a chemical test within a couple hour period, “looking” intoxicated really doesn’t mean shit.. and neither does the 60 empty alcohol bottles and cans.. but they didn’t have those til the next day. Oops. If someone dies and the operator admits to having consumed alcohol, sorry, you’re getting balanced out.

 

[outboard_256]

“Appearing” intoxicated is subjective. It’s almost like when a cop says they “smell” something so they then can search your call. Everyone’s perception is completely unique just like taste in food.

The empty can/bottle thing doesn’t mean shit either. Everytime I tie a trash bag to a cleat on the boat when we’re beached I end up with a bag of empty soda and beer cans and I rarely if ever drink on the water.

This very well could be an accident and would be equally devastating to convict a potentially innocent man.

I have no idea if he’s guilty or not and the eyewitness accounts aren’t good but two years later and witness accounts can change drastically.

The firefighter saying he seemed intoxicated could also be from the captain being thrown from the boat during the accident. If you’ve ever been pitched from a vessel at speed you’d be disoriented too.

It doesn’t seem they have much of a case and the DA succumbed to media and family pressure. Would be unfortunate if he indeed is innocent…

What about the body cam video of him saying he drank 2 beers that day. To me that's the smoking gun.

 

[FlyByWire]

What about the body cam video of him saying he drank 2 beers that day. To me that's the smoking gun.

It could be. But without at least an FST, which I’d have to think they did if they ruled out alcohol… there isn’t anything to hang anybody over.

 

[was thatguy]

It could be. But without at least an FST, which I’d have to think they did if they ruled out alcohol… there isn’t anything to hang anybody over.

If you found 60 empties in a motorized vehicle involved in a mishap…what direction would your professional expertise lead you to investigate?

 

[Smitty7]

Text messages ? Are we talking normal cops or the detectives ?

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

If you found 60 empties in a motorized vehicle involved in a mishap…what direction would your professional expertise lead you to investigate?

Hey man, I was just on my way to the recycling center with these to get a little extra cash. I didn't have a plastic bag to bag them up, I just tossed them in the car. I thought they were closing soon so maybe I was driving too fast.

 

[FlyByWire]

If you found 60 empties in a motorized vehicle involved in a mishap…what direction would your professional expertise lead you to investigate?

Oh I already addressed that part.

There’s objective signs of impairment that go well beyond empties. For a firefighter to make that claim kind of kicks the cops in the nuts, but I think it depends on their comfortability with D/BUI. My particular agency, it’s kind of our bread and butter.

 

[rivrrts429]

If you found 60 empties in a motorized vehicle involved in a mishap…what direction would your professional expertise lead you to investigate?

If your neighbor shows you his 60 gun collection what does your expertise lead you to believe? Is he guilty of shooting up a school?

 

[rivrrts429]

What about the body cam video of him saying he drank 2 beers that day. To me that's the smoking gun.

What’s illegal about two beers? I understand your point but two beers isn’t going to do anything to someone who weighs a hundred pounds or more.

The cops are going to try and FSB test someone they think could potentially be under the influence. If I was the captain I’d skip the FSB tests and advocate for a breathalyzer to clear my name but I’m sure the scene was chaotic. It doesn’t sound like their training or assumptions lead them to think he was impaired.

 

[C-Ya]

The reason why there was no FST is because the driver had Afluenza…….

Afluenza: Symptoms are a fat wallet and influential friends.

 

[havasujeeper]

Sounds like those cops dropped the ball. At this point, it is "too little, too late", but I'm guessing the civil trial may become costly for the driver.

 

[lbhsbz]

If your neighbor shows you his 60 gun collection what does your expertise lead you to believe? Is he guilty of shooting up a school?

Depends…if they’re all in his truck with partially empty mags parked in front of a school that just got shot up…I’d consider the possibility. If they’re in a safe or elsewhere, no.

I’m trying to figure out how 60 plus empty bottles/cans remained in a boat that was capsized.

 

[FlyByWire]

What’s illegal about two beers? I understand your point but two beers isn’t going to do anything to someone who weighs a hundred pounds or more.

The cops are going to try and FSB test someone they think could potentially be under the influence. If I was the captain I’d skip the FSB tests and advocate for a breathalyzer.

Absolutely nothing.. I’m 6’7” 265 and 2 beers isn’t shit for me.. but it’ll get you looked at a little closer, like you go into a little bit.

That last part happens all the time, big crashes with potential prosecution or death, we’re always going to explore impairment… always. I’ve had several people ask me to let them take a chemical test so they have it in writing what their BAC was or is.. even when I told them flat out I could tell they weren’t impaired.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Lots of speculation. He could have been impaired or maybe he just didn't see the channel marker. Thirteen passengers on board could have easily blocked his line of sight.

 

[rivrrts429]

Absolutely nothing.. I’m 6’7” 265 and 2 beers isn’t shit for me.. but it’ll get you looked at a little closer, like you go into a little bit.

That last part happens all the time, big crashes with potential prosecution or death, we’re always going to explore impairment… always. I’ve had several people ask me to let them take a chemical test so they have it in writing what their BAC was or is.. even when I told them flat out I could tell they weren’t impaired.

You get it and understand it. Thats just plain good police work.

My friends who are CHP and city cops approach the situation similarly.

I’m not convinced this guy was/is innocent but it’s dangerous to advocate to ruin someone’s life based on circumstantial evidence at this point. That’s not justice.

Sadly, none of it will bring back the young lady who passed or neurologically repair the one injured. There are zero winning outcomes.

 

[BingerFang]

Sad deal for those 2 girls. What a nightmare situation.

 

[zhandfull]

Sounds like there was a boat load of witnesses that day on what transpired leading up to the accident. Thinking they would not be charging without some damaging statements from the other girls that were ejected from the boat.

 

[was thatguy]

If your neighbor shows you his 60 gun collection what does your expertise lead you to believe? Is he guilty of shooting up a school?

Are there 60 spent cartridges in his car and dead kids in the vicinity?

 

[was thatguy]

Hey man, I was just on my way to the recycling center with these to get a little extra cash. I didn't have a plastic bag to bag them up, I just tossed them in the car. I thought they were closing soon so maybe I was driving too fast.

I’d go with the Highway sponsored clean up story.
You know…”this hwy sponsored by such and such…”
Make it a Good Samaritan lie.
“Filled 2 bags today ocifer…!”

 

[was thatguy]

The reason why there was no FST is because the driver had Afluenza…….

Afluenza: Symptoms are a fat wallet and influential friends.

Normally I take umbrage with most of what you post…but when you’re right you’re right!

Plus…this is RDP…where a good % of the membership assumes and claims that they drive just fine at 0.079, and the automatic response is to minimize any kind parallel between vehicle carnage/ deaths and driving under the influence.

 

[FlyByWire]

Normally I take umbrage with most of what you post…but when you’re right you’re right!

Plus…this is RDP…where a good % of the membership assumes and claims that they drive just fine at 0.079, and the automatic response is to minimize any kind parallel between vehicle carnage/ deaths and driving under the influence.

Shiiiiiiit .79 is absolutely good to go!

 

[was thatguy]

Shiiiiiiit .79 is absolutely good to go!

Um…0.79 means you’re dead!
(I HOPE you mean 0.079!)

 

[530RL]

The reason why there was no FST is because the driver had Afluenza…….

Afluenza: Symptoms are a fat wallet and influential friends.

Ah yes, Afluenza

As the saying goes, it is much easier to be rich and guilty than poor and innocent.

 

[FlyByWire]

Um…0.79 means you’re dead!

Challenge accepted.

 

[rivrrts429]

Are there 60 spent cartridges in his car and dead kids in the vicinity?

Where does it say he was inebriated? Either the cops did their job or they didn’t. Assuming they didn’t is an entirely different thread conversation. Either we’re saying the quiet part out loud or we’re not.

I’d like to think that, fundamentally at their core, cops are going to be deliberant, thorough and disciplined when deaths and severe injuries are involved. Of course there is always human error potential but there are dozens of law enforcement involved in these situations to keep the crime scene as contained and accurate as possible.

Now, if we’re all assuming something nefarious was going on and everyone involved was complacent in a cover-up then we have an entirely different thread about to begin…

 

[CLdrinker]

What’s illegal about two beers? I understand your point but two beers isn’t going to do anything to someone who weighs a hundred pounds or more.

The cops are going to try and FSB test someone they think could potentially be under the influence. If I was the captain I’d skip the FSB tests and advocate for a breathalyzer to clear my name but I’m sure the scene was chaotic. It doesn’t sound like their training or assumptions lead them to think he was impaired.

Hey man. I found out that 3 beers equals .081

Most expensive 3 beers ever.

 

[rivrrts429]

Hey man. I found out that 3 beers equals .081

Most expensive 3 beers ever.

At 6’2” and a measly 185lbs is why I don’t pack a cooler of beers on the boat

Was it two beers back-to-back moments before the accident or was it two beers hours apart?

The DA is essentially doing a trial by media at this point. Nothing I’ve read is hard evidence.

Does my assumptions say otherwise, yes. But to convict the guy based on the evidence at this point is wild. These are the same people advocating for less government intrusion.

 

[rrrr]

There are ten living and able witnesses to the crash that know what happened, including the driver's daughter.

If they're not willing witnesses, subpoena the girls in the boat and make them testify about the driver's consumption or non-consumption of alcohol in the period prior to the crash. That'll reveal the truth, and it's the only way I see that equal justice can be done for all parties involved.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Seems a FST would have been beneficial, to say the least. May have ruled out a lot of the ‘what if’s’ and ‘maybe’s’.

 

[rivrrts429]

Seems a FST would have been beneficial, to say the least. May have ruled out a lot of the ‘what if’s’ and ‘maybe’s’.

I wouldn’t have a whole lot of faith in FSB tests after the alleged suspect has been rag dolled into the water after an impact. It’s the same reason Joe Rogan refuses to interview the loser of a UFC fight anymore after they’ve been knocked out. They’re not clear headed.

Just go right to a breathalyzer.

FST’s are only in place to strengthen the DUI case. They’re an investigative tool, nothing more. Neither law enforcement or suspect have to do them if they decline them. Breathalyzer is a little different and a blood-draw or breath is mandatory if court ordered.

 

[242Baja]

Tragic story. Boats and beer can be fun, but safest when the captain isn't drinking

 

[C-Ya]

This is a news video that summarizes what happened.

This news video has the body cam video, taken on L.E. Boat.

 

[Dog]

I didn't read all the comments so someone may have brought this up already.
What have the "12 minors" on the boat said? Were they drinking for this birthday celebration also? A lot of people on the boat to not know more of the story.

 

[stephenkatsea]

I wouldn’t have a whole lot of faith in FSB tests after the alleged suspect has been rag dolled into the water after an impact. It’s the same reason Joe Rogan refuses to interview the loser of a UFC fight anymore after they’ve been knocked out. They’re not clear headed.

Just go right to a breathalyzer.

FST’s are only in place to strengthen the DUI case. They’re an investigative tool, nothing more. Neither law enforcement or suspect have to do them if they decline them. Breathalyzer is a little different and a blood-draw or breath is mandatory if court ordered.

My bad. I was referring to a breathalyzer, when I wrote FST.

 

[bilz]

You all are aware that "two beers" is typically what " you" remember drinking. It is also what you toss out to leo, to explain why you smell like booze. I would think the FF has "prolly" been around accident scenes that may involve alcohol.

 

[havasujeeper]

Seems every DUI I arrested always seemed to have "just two, barely!"

 

[QC22]

The beauty of our system is innocent until proven guilty. If they don't have compelling evidence I don't understand why he is in jail right now. The whole situation totally sucks, but none of us knows what really happened that horrible evening.

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

Shit, I'm clocking in at 5'6" 152lbs, I can smell a beer and be at .08!!


I don't drink at all when operating vehicles, being a paramedic with an ambulance drivers endorsement a dui for me is .04, not worth the risk, especially when it's my vehicles being operated

 

[FCT]

Absolutely nothing.. I’m 6’7” 265 and 2 beers isn’t shit for me.. but it’ll get you looked at a little closer, like you go into a little bit.

That last part happens all the time, big crashes with potential prosecution or death, we’re always going to explore impairment… always. I’ve had several people ask me to let them take a chemical test so they have it in writing what their BAC was or is.. even when I told them flat out I could tell they weren’t impaired.

I did that with the CHP Sgt in Riverside when I had a girl rear end me in my semi and decapitate herself. I wanted anything and everything on record to make sure my name stayed clean.

 

[FlyByWire]

Seems every DUI I arrested always seemed to have "just two, barely!"

Yep!

I always just go ahead and start writing 2 drinks in my notes before I’m even done asking the question..

 

[RiverDave]

Normally I take umbrage with most of what you post…but when you’re right you’re right!

Plus…this is RDP…where a good % of the membership assumes and claims that they drive just fine at 0.079, and the automatic response is to minimize any kind parallel between vehicle carnage/ deaths and driving under the influence.

Really?

The last two times I have seen you in person were at the Boathouse bar.. next your gonna tell me ya had one beer and that was it.. 2 beers in one hr you are right at what BAC? Maybe we can ask one of the resident cops on here.

RD

 

[was thatguy]

Really?

The last two times I have seen you in person were at the Boathouse bar.. next your gonna tell me ya had one beer and that was it.. 2 beers in one hr you are right at what BAC? Maybe we can ask one of the resident cops on here.

RD

Actually it was once at boathouse, once at Shagrues.
And that was about what, 3 years ago?
Shagrues was one whiskey (pappy 12 year old neat) Boathouse was 2 beers.
No need to ask any cop…I know exactly what my bac was. (At least as accurately as my little hand held says it was, but it’s pretty close)
Generally it takes about 2 double whiskeys (4 shots or more) to put me at 0.065-0.08 depending on the time lapse.
2 beers in an hour and I’m well under 0.07 and have proven it more than once. I also always kept my receipt showing the number of drinks.
It’s not proof but it’s better than not having it because EVERYONE says they had 2 beers or drinks. It’s kind of a novelty to the cops when you can show them that. Lol
And you’ve never seen me drink more than one beer that I can recall?
I did have 2 of Tim’s beers at the DS street fair 2 years ago, then walked around for 2 hours. (Got yelled at for carrying the empty can around till I found a garbage can)
And I had 2 beers at Smiths one day (hmmm that was with Tim as well…I see a pattern!)

 

[C-Ya]

Actually it was once at boathouse, once at Shagrues.
And that was about what, 3 years ago?
Shagrues was one whiskey (pappy 12 year old neat) Boathouse was 2 beers.
No need to ask any cop…I know exactly what my bac was. (At least as accurately as my little hand held says it was, but it’s pretty close)
Generally it takes about 2 double whiskeys (4 shots or more) to put me at 0.065-0.08 depending on the time lapse.
2 beers in an hour and I’m well under 0.07 and have proven it more than once. I also always kept my receipt showing the number of drinks.
It’s not proof but it’s better than not having it because EVERYONE says they had 2 beers or drinks. It’s kind of a novelty to the cops when you can show them that. Lol
And you’ve never seen me drink more than one beer that I can recall?
I did have 2 of Tim’s beers at the DS street fair 2 years ago, then walked around for 2 hours. (Got yelled at for carrying the empty can around till I found a garbage can)
And I had 2 beers at Smiths one day (hmmm that was with Tim as well…I see a pattern!)

It looks like RiverDave hit a nerve……… LOL

 

[was thatguy]

It looks like RiverDave hit a nerve……… LOL

Lol, hardly.
What did hit a nerve was my DUI 25 years ago.
$30K total and a whole lot of pain in the ass.
That’ll make you a believer.