Setting up a 454 for 20.5 Campbell

[wettrthebettr]

found my engine on post 22

I have a question about setting up a 454 for a 71 Campbell 20.5 ft cruiser.
I received my boat with no engine, So I am getting ready to set up a 454 for the cruiser.
Yesterday I looked at a 454 late 73 - 85,# 361959, freshly built with a
Summit 1302 Cam.540 lift, 292 duration.
The motor ran great, compression kinda low 125 to 128 psi, but the different percentage between the high and low was good.
The Vacuum reading was bouncing from 13 to 15
It seems to me the cam is to hot for that stock engine, with the stock head springs.
So now tomorrow I'm going to check out a stock 454 PCM engine with a 72c Tranny.
I Figure it should fit fine with the right engine mounts.
I do not need a race engine with that heavy Campbell, she's just a cruiser.
So what do all ya 454 builders think?
Thanks,

 

[obnoxious001]

That's not a very wild camshaft. Are you sure the heads didn't get new springs? Do you know what pistons are in it? I would be more concerned with what the static compression ration of the engine is with the heavy boat.

 

[wettrthebettr]

When I looked up the summit 1302 cam info, it said Requires 9.5:1 and higher compression and up graded valve springs.
The 2 bolt engine and stock Heads had the old valve springs .
I decided not to purchase the engine
If i had to change the set up on that engine I might as well built it my self.
Im not sure about the static compression ration, It was just a stock 454 with a summit 1302 cam.
I think a stock 454 is 8 to 1
So what would be a good engine set up for a 71 Campbell 20.5 ft boat?

 

[obnoxious001]

When I looked up the summit 1302 cam info, it said Requires 9.5:1 and higher compression and up graded valve springs.
The 2 bolt engine and stock Heads had the old valve springs .
I decided not to purchase the engine
If i had to change the set up on that engine I might as well built it my self.
Im not sure about the static compression ration, It was just a stock 454 with a summit 1302 cam.
I think a stock 454 is 8 to 1
So what would be a good engine set up for a 71 Campbell 20.5 ft boat?

Wise choice not to buy that one, the guy who assembled it apparently had no clue, and who knows what else would have been wrong with it. There are various "stock" heads, which would change the compression ratio.

I would suggest something around 9 or 9.5-1, probably large oval heads depending on your expectations. Without too much cam you would still end up close to 500 hp from a 454. Dual plane intake manifold(I would prefer air gap style), 750 carb, V drive marine pan of course.

 

[wettrthebettr]

That 454 came out of a V-drive flatty, And it had a 10 Qt oil pan that leaked.
I have all winter for a engine, It will be 3-4 weeks before I can install them below deck.
I have a set of 454 large oval heads that are fresh, that's why i'm thinking about building my own engine
There is a PCM 454 and tranny out of a ski boat I can get for 1,000 bucks.
I'm looking at Erson Cam E121021 IN 292° EX 310 DUR, .514” .530” Lift
or Erson Cam E120320 IN 284° EX 284°, .542” .542” Lift

 

[Carlson-jet]

Wise choice not to buy that one, the guy who assembled it apparently had no clue, and who knows what else would have been wrong with it. There are various "stock" heads, which would change the compression ratio.

I would suggest something around 9 or 9.5-1, probably large oval heads depending on your expectations. Without too much cam you would still end up close to 500 hp from a 454. Dual plane intake manifold(I would prefer air gap style), 750 carb, V drive marine pan of course.

Would this be with a flat tappet or Roller cam? Both?

 

[obnoxious001]

Would this be with a flat tappet or Roller cam? Both?

Either one works fine. Flat tappet means you need to run proper oil, or additive, both of which would have additional zinc. Roller costs more, but likely would see horsepower gains, and not require "cam break in".

 

[wettrthebettr]

9 or 9.5-1 is what I'am looking for.
late 70's block, with the 1979 heads I got , double springs, truck oval ports, flat tapped
Comp, Marine/Oval Track, Cam Kit 280AH: Cam,0.547 lift,280 Dur, & Holley 750
I think this set up will fit my Campbell nice.
The fuel tanks will take about 4 weeks or more now because of the holidays,
so might as well build the engine now.
I might change the cam a couple times before I need it, LOL
i will use rotella 15-40 oil

 

[obnoxious001]

Better double check on the Rotella, I think they have pulled some of the additives out of it. I recommend a couple of different brands of racing oil for the engines I build, whether flat tappet or roller cam. You should have your springs tested for seat and open pressure rather than assuming they will be ok, unless you know them to be set up properly.

 

[wettrthebettr]

Your right, That Rotella has less ZDDP cause is hard on catalytic converters, and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) systems perform better when there are more detergents.
Lucas racing oil has 3,097 ppm of ZDDP, and Red Line has 2200 ppm of ZDDP, I use Red line in my Harley.
There is a balance of the ZDDP that should be looked at, it not good to get to much ZDDP.
The Comp cam kit comes with lifters and springs for that cam, or Isky or Erson cam kit.
I'm not sure which Brand Cam and kit i am going with yet.
Thanks for the input.

 

[wettrthebettr]

Hey This is going to be a Sweet set up for the oil filter and oil Change
and I don't have to cut the floor to change the oil filter
Remote Oil Filter Mount, mounted to the transom
For easy oil filter change, and and a oil pan drain hose
To drain the engine oil out the transom drain hole, No mess.

 

[obnoxious001]

Hey This is going to be a Sweet set up for the oil filter and oil Change
and I don't have to cut the floor to change the oil filter
Remote Oil Filter Mount, mounted to the transom
For easy oil filter change, and and a oil pan drain hose
To drain the engine oil out the transom drain hole, No mess.
View attachment 704817 View attachment 704810

Use #12 line, and I don't like the idea of clamp on fittings on high pressure oil lines. For oil drains I normally put a -10 AN fitting into the pan with a cap, then have a piece of 5/8" hose with the correct fitting to go through the drain hole and thread onto it when it's time to change oil, no extra line in the boat, and the oil drains much faster.

 

[wettrthebettr]

Well it aint what it used to be building engines any more, The local shops want a arm and a leg, and I need my arms and legs.
What happen to the good old days when ya could build a engine cheaper than a long block already built.
Long gone I see, I can get a Marine 454 long block 400hp 9.96 ratio for 3,200 , $150. shipped to my front door.
DYNO TESTED to make sure Horsepower and Torque ratings are accurate.
Motorworks Inc. Spokane, WA
Anyone heard of them??

 

[DRYHEAT]

Never heard of the company but $3200 sounds awfully cheap for a long block marine engine, I’d be questioning what kind of parts are in it and how well it was put together. Make sure you get a good warranty I’ve heard a lot of horror stories of deals like this gone bad.

Sometimes it’s worth a few extra dollars upfront to deal with a known entity.
Good luck with your project.

 

[wettrthebettr]

Yeah, i have been checking there background on BBB. they have a 3 star rating. not many complaints, most were worked out.
Marine applications: Covered for the first twelve (12) months or unlimited hours
I'm thinking of getting a short block and take the cam and timing cover out, and build it up from there.
they use molly rings, Forged Hypereutectic ,pistons,Roller block
I have heads large oval ports, and going to get a comp marine Cam 11-232-3 lift 505-515, Dur 262-268. , flat tappet
comp lifters-tric flow TFS21400001,
Valve springs- 911-16
HV oil pump
I have a 6" Hurricane large oval ports
750 Holley
and some other stuff. It should be a good fit
I would rather have a local shop take care of the Block but the cost is unreasonable cost.

 

[Dalton]

theres a crate engine company called blueprint, somewhat mixed reviews, they have a strong warranty. obnoxious is a engine builder, but I know its hard for the smaller shops to get things out at that price point. (3500)

 

[obnoxious001]

, Forged Hypereutectic ,pistons,

That is two different terms. For any kind of performance marine engine you want "forged". Hypereutectic pistons is a fancy way of saying "cast", just a better alloy.

 

[ElAzul]

Yeah, i have been checking there background on BBB. they have a 3 star rating. not many complaints, most were worked out.
Marine applications: Covered for the first twelve (12) months or unlimited hours
I'm thinking of getting a short block and take the cam and timing cover out, and build it up from there.
they use molly rings, Forged Hypereutectic ,pistons,Roller block
I have heads large oval ports, and going to get a comp marine Cam 11-232-3 lift 505-515, Dur 262-268. , flat tappet
comp lifters-tric flow TFS21400001,
Valve springs- 911-16
HV oil pump
I have a 6" Hurricane large oval ports
750 Holley
and some other stuff. It should be a good fit
I would rather have a local shop that care of the Block but the cost is unreasonable cost.

Unreasonable how? Are they a good reputable shop? Being cheap on a marine engine almost never works out in the long run just sayin

 

[wettrthebettr]

Well it was over 2500 just for the block work, thats not including the pistons and rings by phone,
then when I went back to to talk to one of the guys I've known for 20 years, He told me 2,000
I felt better talking to him.
The biggest problem is finding a good gen 4 block .
I'm almost ready to just to get a running gen 4 454 and 400 trany out of Motor home.
Low hp, I can deal with that later.
The two below deck fuel tanks are being delivered dec 27th, then the Rudder can be hooked up.
That leaves the engine installation so the V-drive can be fitted to the tranny, then the
Electrical and plumbing can be hooked up,floor and upholstery can be install.
I need to get this campbell together by Feb, March the latest.
I'm going in for Hip replacement.

 

[obnoxious001]

Well it was over 2500 just for the block work, thats not including the pistons and rings by phone,
then when I went back to to talk to one of the guys I've known for 20 years, He told me 2,000
I felt better talking to him.
The biggest problem is finding a good gen 4 block .

What does that $2,000 or $2,500 include? I have 4 bolt blocks, but don't like giving them up if I am not building the engine, because they are more difficult to find out here in Parker than they were in California.

 

[wettrthebettr]

thank you very much, I think I'm going to buy a complete stock 454 from Marine industries for 2500.
Then next year or two build the hp up.
update for this 454, it is a gen V, I decided not to get it.
drove to lake Havasu City and bought a gen IV engine.

 

[wettrthebettr]

drove to Lake Havasu City and bought a complete Mercruiser 454 out of a v-drive, holley carb to dooley pan, Torque and power test preformed at Pro Marine in Havasu
379.5 hp 364.1 trq
it has many items I needed for the Campbell the search is over.