Retaining wall help/ Sideyard (update sept)

[Socalx09]

Just had the huge shed removed, and going to make the side yard another entertaining area. Waiting for the haul away guys to come back to finish taking the rest of the debris.

Since I am stuck at the house all day long watching my grandma. My dad wants to pay me to do the retaining wall. I want to move the current retaining wall about 20 inches back. This is Corona so it does not rain a lot and the slope is not huge.

I know about the 6 inch 3/4 gravel base under ground, and 6 inches of the wall material to be underground. My question is for the backfill, I am reading and watching that it needs to have 12-16 inches of depth. What I am confused about is it looks like they are talking width wise. And, I’m seeing the backfill go all the way down to the bottom where the drain go. So am I correct that I need 12-16 inches of width of backfill gravel and then the gravel to go all the way down to the drain pipe? I know to wrap the gravel on the soil side with fabric and not against the material side.

I’m connecting the draining pipe to the pipe underground that runs down the center to the curb.

Also, is this all overkill for such a small slope? We never have any flooding problems there with the current wall.

My dad wants to use railroad ties which I read will require dead man T’s. I don’t like it because I hate wood, and the backyard is mostly stucco, custom rock work and stone work.
Area is 25 feet long.

Made the design on my computer, couldn’t figure out how to make a raised planter so the black line would be the retaining wall.

 

[NicPaus]

Most likely a decent footing under the existing retaining wall. A lot of work for only 20".

 

[Socalx09]

Most likely a decent footing under the existing retaining wall. A lot of work for only 20".

Still trying to figure out how far I can move it back to the fence. Still talking the neighbor into redoing the fence. But, even moving back 20 inches makes a bit of difference especially with the fireplace area going in the corner. I am not going be breaking the wall down, the gardner is going to be doing that. My dad removed one block section towards the fence, the block that was half way underground came out pretty easy.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Depending on permit/ or not...you could do a cast concrete to give you the freeform flow. Legally speaking, retaining wall permiting is a pain. Engineering and hydrology BS. I did a lot of waterproofing on them, and the designs were overkill, I thought. A lot though, had to do with proximity to existing structures, and ground loading. Whatever you do, just make sure a neighbor's patio slab doesn't crack. Lawyers get paid more than civil engineers, and nobody wants to pay after the fact. CYA...always!

 

[DirtyWhiteDog]

Check your city's or county's website. many have standard retaining wall plans for under 4' with no surcharge. Some don't require permits under 2' retaining. Personally I would put the new wall right at the fence line.

 

[nrbr]

Consider a stackable retaining wall as well. There are some really nice designs and they go together fairly easily. Orco block is where I got mine last time. Just stack, fill with gravel and the backfill you seem to have down. Easy peasy

 

[Melloyellovector]

Personally I’d do retaining and property line wall together, would need permit for sure ( would end up being 8ft tall from your side )

If doing next to wall most cities under 24in is considered a planter wall and usually no permit required.
Anything retaining we use 8x8x16 or larger only not 6in
Footings should resemble pic at minimum, if not and you or your neighbor plant anything behind wall it will fail.

If the basic images above don’t help explain, may I suggest maybe you shouldn’t attempt yourself, lol

 

[braindead]

From what I can tell based on your photos it looks like you have less than 20 inches in arise between the existing wood fence and your level dirt area, so I'd stay as far away as I could from the building department unless you want this project to drag on and cost you a helluva lot more money and time.

If it were me I'd connect a corrugated drain pipe wrapped in weed cloth encased in gravel under the 6 inch base for your retaining wall and I would stack these on top of it. They're inexpensive and easy to work with and can be cut with a diamond blade on a grinder.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Tan-Brown-...mon-4-in-x-12-in-Actual-4-in-x-12-in/4570002#

Nice part about these is you can change up the wall by weaving in and out instead of going completely straight to add some depth

 

[$hot]

Some new block and a few day laborers, don't worry about permitting it. just my .02

 

[LHC Kirby]

I would go close to fence and stackable stuff.

 

[monkeyswrench]

View attachment 705266 Personally I’d do retaining and property line wall together, would need permit for sure ( would end up being 8ft tall from your side )

If doing next to wall most cities under 24in is considered a planter wall and usually no permit required.
Anything retaining we use 8x8x16 or larger only not 6in
Footings should resemble pic at minimum, if not and you or your neighbor plant anything behind wall it will fail.

If the basic images above don’t help explain, may I suggest maybe you shouldn’t attempt yourself, lol

Yep, this stuff /\ is what I was talking about. Getting away without permit is easy, until adjacent property notices a crack. Even if it was a previous issue, they can try to pin it on you. If you get into the math end of stuff, the existing slope allows for X amount of dead load, that allotment now needs to be contained by the retaining wall. I just did the waterproofing end of it, sometimes the retaining wall was integrated into the back of a water feature. Higher than my pay-grade. Melloyellow deals with this stuff frequently...probably not a bad source of info. Maybe get some projected elevations together, for proposed set backs, and see what works in both your comfort level, and budget.

 

[ChumpChange]

Call Trump. He's good at walls.

 

[highvoltagehands]

LMAO! Now that's fuckin funny. Good one CC.

 

[highvoltagehands]

If you want to safe money and avoid retaining wall, Get the neighbor to share cost of replacing that old 6' wood fence with a new 8' tall fence(maybe you might cover extra 2' costs). The new 8' fence will have 6' panels with 12"- 24" kick boards at bottom on your side the fence to help support & retain neighbors existing grade.
Remove the existing brick down to footer and the the fill dirt over to new 8' fence. Grade the new pad with slight slope away from house.

 

[Yellowboat]

Most city's max out fences at 6 unless you get a variance.

 

[Socalx09]

Thanks everyone. I am not going to get the city involved. Nothing in this project will need a permit besides I guess the wall. The fireplace will run on propane. It will be a retaining wall under 24 inches. The current retaining wall is 12 inches not including the cap. It actually doesn’t look like much of a retaining wall besides the block being placed underground. No drainage, the under ground level block comes right out so far. The shared fence neighbor who is the original owner says the small wall has been there forever and thinks I am over thinking building the new wall. I just went on YouTube and watched about 20 videos on retaining walls and made notes. I know to all the contractors/engineers on here, it is much more than that, but no funds to afford that!

The neighbor would only want a block wall if the fence would be changed which is not affordable to both of us. The fence thing is being negotiated. It would be nice to have the extra room all the way to the fence and like in @highvoltagehands picture. That would be ideal.

So as ideal as making the wall and fence one thing, it just isn’t in the budget. Neighbor doesn’t have a patio slab anywhere near that side of the fence. It is just dirt. He actually took all the wood from the shed we just took down. It was a 10x20 shed for my dad work tools.

I do enjoy this type of work and challenging myself. I know I’m a chick, but I think growing up with my dad I always had a knack for this type of thing. He got sad when I went to college for business instead of contracting school.

I do want to go away from the railroad ties. I hate wood. My cousins have a retaining wall made out of it and my dad loves it. So it’s stuck in his head.

Melloyellovector- Thank you for the diagram. I will look it over and make sure I understand it before I proceed. I’m not too scared to admit if I realize I can’t do it, but it is worth saving $$$ if I feel like I can do it correctly.

Really appreciate all the suggestions and help before I decide to tackle this.

Here is some of the work I did/help.


Old shed right before demo.

Stairs I put in last year so my dads lab with arthritis didn’t have to jump up and down to the potty area. I did not tile it. I don’t enjoy tiling.

I helped my dad frame the bbq island. The stucco guys and tile guy made it pretty.

 

[highvoltagehands]

Most city's max out fences at 6 unless you get a variance.

You're correct, but if the two properties are at different grade elevations, the overall fence height can be taller as long as it's not more than 6' above the highest property grade. So if the neighbor wants a 6' fence, the overall fence height on the lower side might need to be 7-8' tall on low side.

 

[sirbob]

You're correct, but if the two properties are at different grade elevations, the overall fence height can be taller as long as it's not more than 6' above the highest property grade. So if the neighbor wants a 6' fence, the overall fence height on the lower side might need to be 7-8' tall on low side.

Not in San Clemente.

In this city you need to step it up and have 12in between the retaining wall and the fence on top. Anything is possible with a variance but going straight up more than 6 ft on either side will not fly.

Short story we just dealt with - an unknown neighbor wanted to go higher than 6' - he was denied. He drove around the neighborhood and listed all the houses that had a fence/retaining wall where one side was higher than 6' and went to city and said - why do they get it and I don't.

The city then sent letters to everybody threatening to make us take them down. In the end we were able to keep ours as - existing non conforming because it was built before the code was in effect.

They do not allow anything higher without a major fight. I think I know who the person was - it happened about 6 months ago. Literally this past week I see a wall going up at his house (finishing up a total remodel of house) and his side yard wall is 4' retaining then 12" set back into his yard is another 4' wall for a total of 8' when you stand next to it on the sidewalk.

 

[monkeyswrench]

SoCal, I don't have tech skills, so bare with me...In the back portion, you could sweep into a radius, digging out the hill a bit more, and continue the "retaining wall" around a little towards your house. This would work as bench seating, if you did a fire ring as the central hub of the radius. I don't know if you were going for vertical fireplace with chimney, or marshmallow/weinnie roaster.

 

[Pelon]

I used a stackable concrete block. In my jurisdiction under 3 feet does not require a permit. No mortar or concrete required, only 3/4 or 1 inch gravel so no need for a mason. Any landscaper can do it.

 

[Cole Brewed]

I used a stackable concrete block. In my jurisdiction under 3 feet does not require a permit. No mortar or concrete required, only 3/4 or 1 inch gravel so no need for a mason. Any landscaper can do it. View attachment 705306

I like the look of you wall (and driveway). May be an option at my house. Where did you find that stackable block system, possibly a link?

 

[Pelon]

I like the look of you wall (and driveway). May be an option at my house. Where did you find that stackable block system, possibly a link?

Allen Block
https://www.allanblock.com/

Bought at L & L Building Materials in Irwindale

 

[Cole Brewed]

Allen Block
https://www.allanblock.com/

Bought at L & L Building Materials in Irwindale

Thank you

 

[wzuber]

How many different ideas would you like? haha
An alternative fence/wall combo plan I would consider incorporating into your design would be to use Min. 4"x4"x1/4" (wall thickness) steel tube posts set @ 8' on centers into min. 12" x 30" concrete footings set 30" below YouR finish grade level. From there you could use whatever material you prefer for the retaining portion (painted steel plate, corrogated type sheet, pressure treated lumber, dry stack block/stone etc.) I would recommend powder coating the posts however you could paint them yourself with a good industrial grade epoxy primer and a good industrial grade oil or water base top coat. You could use steel tubing between the posts for fence rails and re-install the existing dog eared fencing or if planned and bracketed correctly re-use the existing fence panels sans the wood posts or replace all with alternative material as you wish. If using lumber for the soil retaining material I would recommend welding brackets to the posts to attach/retain that material which if executed correctly would allow for quick, simple replacement if the need should arise in the future. For retaining I think the dry stack stone materials offer great options and with some curve shape implemented as Monkey mentioned also provides some nice seating areas for guests etc. and allow for any water absorbed into the soil to leach out without damage to the retaining wall system. If you excavate a "footing" for the wall stones you will need to compact the gravel base with a jumping jack type compactor.

 

[Yellowboat]

You're correct, but if the two properties are at different grade elevations, the overall fence height can be taller as long as it's not more than 6' above the highest property grade. So if the neighbor wants a 6' fence, the overall fence height on the lower side might need to be 7-8' tall on low side.

That has not been my exp when dealing with code enforcement.

 

[monkeyswrench]

That has not been my exp when dealing with code enforcement.

Code Cops vary wildly. Huntington Beach and Whittier were the ones that had some fun ones. Some cities have guys that focus on their pet peeves, but let other things fly with impunity. Differing city and county codes as well. Loads of fun!

 

[Socalx09]

SoCal, I don't have tech skills, so bare with me...In the back portion, you could sweep into a radius, digging out the hill a bit more, and continue the "retaining wall" around a little towards your house. This would work as bench seating, if you did a fire ring as the central hub of the radius. I don't know if you were going for vertical fireplace with chimney, or marshmallow/weinnie roaster.

It actually was going to be a wood burning fireplace until I found out you can't have new construction wood burning in California. I am going to see about incorporating seating like you suggested. I like that idea. I haven't decided if I am going to set it up in the corner or in the middle of the front fence yet. I would like to do another fire pit ring since it appears must people like to sit around a fire, but that would break up this zone a bit. It is suppose to be a fun zone. Cornhole, darts, etc. We have no grass in the backyard so going with low golf type grass for the majority of the sideyard except for the fireplace area. Thats why I am trying to make it as wide as I can. We host a lot of sporting events/holidays and the bbq island area gets busy and people sitting near the fire pit can't see. And the other outdoor tv is on the other side and it creates two separate zones. This section won't have any covered area to just hang a tv so that is were I thought of a fireplace. I ordered the tv lift to raise the tv to come up from the fireplace. Our other fireplace in the patio is never on. We had a gas line coming out of the kitchen into the patio area. I guess the previous owners hooked up their bbq there. So I decided to just make it into a fireplace tv area. I believe it has been turned on 2 times in 4 years. Which is the reason this fireplace will just be on a propane tank, no sense in with dealing with new gas lines and more permits.

fire pit infront of bbq island

fireplace ideas

 

[Melloyellovector]

FYI, Wood burning is city specific not all of California.

 

[wzuber]

Those pics. of your existing designs and work look really well thought out, functional and attractive. Those fireplace designs look great and appear like they will work really well with the size and shape of the space being used. The many various stack stone materials would incorporate very nicely with those examples shown. The fence system could provide for a convenient back rest for guests if the retaining wall system is planned accordingly. The wall seating arrangement could be viewed as an amphitheater like design allowing more peeps to have a good view of activities in the space. You could even have some nice removable/storable seat cushions made for the wall top for guests to sit on. Maybe a storage compartment could be incorporated into the f.p. design plan if space permits? A clean, simple and secure wall mounted t.v. enclosure system incorporated into your design plan located on the house wall could allow for good viewing, weather protection and security. Whatever you choose to do I'm sure it will turn out nice and be a very nice place for friends to party and chill. Can I be your friend? haha

 

[Socalx09]

Those pics. of your existing designs and work look really well thought out, functional and attractive. Those fireplace designs look great and appear like they will work really well with the size and shape of the space being used. The many various stack stone materials would incorporate very nicely with those examples shown. The fence system could provide for a convenient back rest for guests if the retaining wall system is planned accordingly. The wall seating arrangement could be viewed as an amphitheater like design allowing more peeps to have a good view of activities in the space. You could even have some nice removable/storable seat cushions made for the wall top for guests to sit on. Maybe a storage compartment could be incorporated into the f.p. design plan if space permits? A clean, simple and secure wall mounted t.v. enclosure system incorporated into your design plan located on the house wall could allow for good viewing, weather protection and security. Whatever you choose to do I'm sure it will turn out nice and be a very nice place for friends to party and chill. Can I be your friend? haha

I think I am going to try to incorporate seating on the retaining wall or fireplace wall. I was going to mount the tv on the side of the house, but since I use indoor TVs outside(never been an issue) I have to be aware of reflections. I already got a table and placed the tv in multiple angles. Mounting it on the house wall made it unwatchable except during the night with how the sun hit it. If I put the tv on the left corner or in the middle of the front fence. The tv was very watchable during the day. Plus, we have an electrical outlet behind that fence for the front yard Christmas lights, so we can just run that back 5 feet and have power.

I’m trying to have this done before the Super Bowl. They are coming back Friday to finish cleaning up. The gravel all has to go since it’s pea gravel. I thought I could reuse it for the retaining wall, but that requires 3/4 gravel. So hopefully this weekend if it doesn’t rain, I can get out the orange spray can marker and start getting creative on what I am going to do and incorporate some of the ideas I got from the thread.

If you are in SoCal, I’ll send you an invite to a party!

 

[Socalx09]

Gravel is all gone. I started digging behind the existing retaining wall this week and doing a bit each day. The gardner shows up today in the morning and asks me what I was doing. I explained it to him, he tells me he can do it for $100. Calls his brother, they start digging a wide trench to the new location of the wall. They were knocking it out a lot faster than I was. The soil is pretty soft. They are coming back tomorrow for an hour to finish the rest and level it to the floor. Luckily there is a lot of low areas in the other planter so I just wheel barreled the dirt to even it out and didn’t have to pay to dispose of it.

Not sure if my dad is going to be able to run the electrical this weekend before Christmas for the tv that will be on fire fireplace. There is one open circuit on the sub panel for the pool/bbq island. Need to add the extension line for the landscape lights for the new retaining wall area. Relocate the sprinkler lines. Also need to try to get a hold of the stucco guy since the dogs have done damaged on the side wall.

Then it will be retaining wall building time! I have faith it will be ok since this original wall held up for so long and it’s not really a true retaining wall.

 

[Socalx09]

Drainage pipe done and connected it to the drain pipe that goes to the curb. Got the gravel foundation under it and wall stacked. Backfilled with gravel with landscape fabric. My dad ended up choosing the stackable stone wall. We finished it tonight. It states a maximum of 2 feet high including the first buried row. It’s at 6 rows including the buried row at 4in a block so at 24 inches height now. Might look for caps tomorrow. Not sure if this style had them. Hopefully it holds up! It was the style in the budget now. I’m assuming it will hold up as the last wall was just a regular wall. Very happy that the wall was moved back. It may not seem like much, but in person it makes a difference IMO. Next step is to keep digging the 2 foot trench for relocating the electrical outlet near the fireplace area. Got about 14 inches trench now. But waiting right now because my dad found a capped gas line center of the yard near the center drainage that the previous owners already had there. Had no idea it was there. Not sure if previous owners had that put there. Waiting to hear back from the company that ran the gas line for the bbq island. My dad doesn’t mess with gas lines!

Than grass sod and start building the fireplace frame!

Also got a sweet deal on a new patio set. $500. Still not sure how the guy let it go for that price. Came with covers and a firepit.

 

[Socalx09]

Finally had time to update this thread and post a picture.

Just had time today to tile some of the stack stone on the bottom. One of the neighbors had leftover marble pieces. So seeing if those three pieces can be pieced together for the ledge.

 

[Socalx09]

 

[Socalx09]

There is a false wall. And, it has a fire rating clearance behind the firebox. The tv goes in the false wall and is insulated so it doesn’t have extreme temperatures. Tv goes up and down so you can’t see it. We broke the tv screen installing it so right now there’s a broken tv in it until The whole project is done.

I didn’t make the concrete base wide enough. So by the time I put the dura rock and the stacked stone, it went out past the base. Probably will dig out some grass and put some pavers in front of it.

 

[Ziggy]

Nice work young lady.
.
But.....
That popcorn machine is making my mouth water

 

[Socalx09]

Nice work young lady.
.
But.....
That popcorn machine is making my mouth water

Thank you! Project is taking forever to finish. But, it’ll be done one day!

Love the popcorn machine! $40 off Craigslist! Fresh popcorn for parties

 

[Socalx09]

Here’s another update. Was able to stone the front and had the granite installed Friday morning. Between heat and rain, this project is going be about 10 months! Unfortunately -Home Depot stopped selling Roman beige ledger stone. I’m 4 boxes short, so going to floor and decor to see if their Roman beige matches. It’s for the sides so 100% isn’t ideal.. if not there’s a guy in Pasadena selling 25 boxes for $20 a box so might have to make that drive! Fireplace is set on concrete base. I should have made the base a bit wider. By the time I put the stacked ledger stone, it went past the base. Probably going to find some large travertine pieces and place in front of it.

Not sure I like the wood look for the fireplace. Maybe I need to shorten the legs of the tray. Something is off.

Also decided to tear up the old tile that was before the grass. I never liked it and it was a small area! I’m sure my dad will be pleased once he comes home from hunting lol.

Before(best picture I can find of the shed that use to be there.

After

And the best part.... the TV! That my dad and I broke installing so I need to find a new tv lol

 

[TomD]

Nice job!!!