Prop shaft seals

[AZLineman]

What's everyone using for prop shaft seals? While I'm changing stuff around I might try something new. I've been running the first gen seal from Phil with the two seals and the bearing for almost 10 years and it worked pretty good but I want to get that bearing off my shaft. By drag boat buddies swear by the delrin seal housing with the 2 seals and Phil now swears by his new trip seal deal with no bearing but a piece of delrin strut bushing in the back of it. Thoughts?

 

[BamBam]

Use what has been working for you...

Schiada uses a PSS - Packless Shaft Seal but it needs pumped (not force fed) water to cool it

 

[lenmann]

Use what has been working for you...

Schiada uses a PSS - Packless Shaft Seal but it needs pumped (not force fed) water to cool it

So I thought Stan was using the PSS seal too, and he may have been at one time, so that's what I used on my build. When I overfilled my v-drive and it overheated barfing hot oil all over my thigh and the bottom of the boat I learned that the PSS hose has a fairly low resistance to heat. If is gets too warm, like when your v-drive overheats, the bellows will relax reducing the pressure it needs to seal properly on the prop shaft collar. In my case that led to lake water mixing with stinky Lucas gear lube making a helluva turquoise mess in the bottom of my hull. At the risk of stating the obvious, lake water filling the hull via the shaft log is not good

After talking to Stan I learned that he is now using the Tides Marine shaft seal. It uses a lip seal and plastic bushing arrangement that doesn't rely on bellows pressure to seal. As BamBam noted it also needs pumped water to avoid burning up the bushing that runs on the prop shaft. I now have the Tides Marine unit on my heap. Full disclosure: I have yet to test it on the lake, waiting for the driftwood to clear a bit.

Tides Marine link:

seriesOne Shaft Seal 1000

seriesOne Shaft Seal 1000

www.tidesmarine.com

 

[BamBam]

So I thought Stan was using the PSS seal too, and he may have been at one time, so that's what I used on my build. When I overfilled my v-drive and it overheated barfing hot oil all over my thigh and the bottom of the boat I learned that the PSS hose has a fairly low resistance to heat. If is gets too warm, like when your v-drive overheats, the bellows will relax reducing the pressure it needs to seal properly on the prop shaft collar. In my case that led to lake water mixing with stinky Lucas gear lube making a helluva turquoise mess in the bottom of my hull. At the risk of stating the obvious, lake water filling the hull via the shaft log is not good

After talking to Stan I learned that he is now using the Tides Marine shaft seal. It uses a lip seal and plastic bushing arrangement that doesn't rely on bellows pressure to seal. As BamBam noted it also needs pumped water to avoid burning up the bushing that runs on the prop shaft. I now have the Tides Marine unit on my heap. Full disclosure: I have yet to test it on the lake, waiting for the driftwood to clear a bit.

Tides Marine link:

seriesOne Shaft Seal 1000

seriesOne Shaft Seal 1000

www.tidesmarine.com

Thank you for the info. I will look into that one

 

[Racey]

PSS with the water fitting, they call it the "high speed". You can't use the standard speed PSS that doesn't have cooling. Bellows relaxing won't be an issue with the water pumping through it keeping it cool

SKIA36's has always had one on it. It's over 20 years old now.

 

[Riverbottom]

PSS for the win. I have had them in my Biesemeyer and two Vector v-drives without issue. My Malibu ski boat has had one for sixteen years without a leak, and over a thousand hours.

 

[lenmann]

@AZLineman if you decide to go the PSS route I have a brand new one in the box that I'll make you a deal on. Also have gently used one that needs a new bellows.

 

[Outdrive1]

PSS is the shit, if your rigging allows you to run water to it. I’m a fan of Peterson Specialties billet rope seal set up. Basically the same design as the plastic ones but billet with the black rope that jet pumps use.

 

[AZLineman]

I have not seen Toms seal

 

[Outdrive1]

I have not seen Toms seal

He builds them, they even have a nifty spanner wrench with them. 1” and 1 1/8th. Give him a call. I think they are 100 bucks.

 

[AZLineman]

Ok. Thanks.

 

[BassLakeCruiser]

D21 all the way. Support people that support the v drive community. He is always the first to help and answer questions. I don’t see that anywhere else

 

[AZLineman]

D21 all the way. Support people that support the v drive community. He is always the first to help and answer questions. I don’t see that anywhere else

That's the one I've decided to go with and I agree I have used Phil for many things through the years. His best bud Joe too.

 

[025]

I’m a pretty big fan of the pss seals. I’ve seen the garlock lip style groove prop shafts.

 

[025]

D21 all the way. Support people that support the v drive community. He is always the first to help and answer questions. I don’t see that anywhere else

Phil is a good guy and works hard to support the vdrive community

 

[sintax]

I’m a pretty big fan of the pss seals. I’ve seen the garlock lip style groove prop shafts.

i've heard of this happening, I know i've also seen this same thing on the drive side compensator spacer on my 78 shovelhead. Its pretty wild to think that rubber can wear away steel, but it can

 

[Blownbillybob]

I ran the new D21 one and had a problem talked with him and made an new bushing worked good !!! Then improved upon that design an incorporated 1 from an old Rex marine 1 I had laying around !!! I worked really good !! Except for the heat !! So I built another 1 that has a water jacket on it and so far it’s worked great !!!!

 

[AZLineman]

I ran the new D21 one and had a problem talked with him and made an new bushing worked good !!! Then improved upon that design an incorporated 1 from an old Rex marine 1 I had laying around !!! I worked really good !! Except for the heat !! So I built another 1 that has a water jacket on it and so far it’s worked great !!!!

Well that's bitchen. Wic get one. The new one from Phil that just showed up last night with the three lip seals and the piece of delrin prop strut bushing jammed in the end is going to get hot and fail?

 

[Blownbillybob]

Mine ate up the delrin ?? I made a bronze bushing insert instead of the delrin!!
My first 1 I made I put a seal after the delrin to try and hold the grease in the housing cause all mine was gone ??

That seamed to work better !!!! But was still getting some good temp in it so I made the water cooled 1 after !!!

 

[Blownbillybob]

Mines on the right

 

[Blownbillybob]

I also went to that blue silicone hose it seems a little more pliable/flexible the the black rubber hose and as u can see I don’t have a lot of room !!! An was thinking maybe the black hose could be side loading the shaft seal !

 

[AZLineman]

Did the delrin get eaten or melt? I would think there is enuf water in there to cool it.

 

[Blownbillybob]

Did the delrin get eaten or melt? I would think there is enuf water in there to cool it.

Seemed like melted ?

 

[Outdrive1]

Well that's bitchen. Wic get one. The new one from Phil that just showed up last night with the three lip seals and the piece of delrin prop strut bushing jammed in the end is going to get hot and fail?

Mine caught on fire, threw grease everywhere. Then it put itself out when it let all the water rush in. Maybe I installed it wrong? All I know is rope seals are simple

 

[AZLineman]

Mine caught on fire, threw grease everywhere. Then it put itself out when it let all the water rush in. Maybe I installed it wrong? All I know is rope seals are simple

WTF. The new style like this? Pretty hard to get it wrong unless your shaft alignment is bad.

 

[J DUNN]

My Mandella had the original style seal from back in the 80's when it was rigged. Last spring at Classic Performance Regatta it was leaking like a siv so Brummett put the PSS in it. Dry as a bone now. Back to feeling mildly safe that my duck bills are my only form of bilge pump.

 

[AZLineman]

I ran this one for about 10years (new bearing/seals ev coup yrs) but it has always leaked a lil water/grease and my buddy had one fail recently were the bearings seized and ate his aquamet shaft and they are not cheap these days

 

[alohajeff]

I ran this one for about 10years (new bearing/seals ev coup yrs) but it has always leaked a lil water/grease and my buddy had one fail recently were the bearings seized and ate his aquamet shaft and they are not cheap these days

I had bad luck with a similar setup to that. Having to grease the thing every weekend was less fun than just living with the drip-drip-drip of the old Bronze / rope seal deal. The Alignment was AOK and I still had issues. New bearings, new lip seals, same problems.

The only reason I replaced the rope seal system years ago was I got tired of the drip-drip-drip. Well, the simple bearing setup I had (not saying all have the same issues) wasn't for me either so last year I started running the PSS. Time will tell but so far I still prefer the old rope seal the best. The PSS has a major potential issue that was almost a deal breaker. If something in the bilge were to push the boot and sealing lip away from the carbon seal water will GUSH in like a mo-fo. I used that trick to partially flood my bilge last year (cleaning it out) and the coolness of being able to clean the bilge out from time to time wore off and then made me paranoid the damn thing was going to sink my boat.

Aloha

 

[AZLineman]

While i have run Phils old (not good for the shaft i have found out the hard way) and his new version on hand i believe im going with the Glide system. I've been talking to them on and off all week about applications like most of us use and they're actually going to build me a one off for R&D and I'm gonna try and it may work out really well. I'm going to cool it with the water coming out of the case rather than dumping it in the log. Its a dual teflon seal deal. I'm sick of greasing and slinging grease all over the inside of the bilge and on the sides of my seats. When do you think how fast that prop shaft is turning grease is coming out anyway you look at it. I'm also not too sure about the delrin bushing for long high-speed cruising and not getting enough water up to it in a v hull and having a melting point of 178°. The glide material has a melting point of 230 but the higher speed the more water its gonna get. They're also talking about building me one with a Kevlar liner that's good to 500° to test. They also hooked me up with some glide strut bearings that I'm going to try. They have been very helpful and are quite interested in seeing how their products work in this environment. To be continued.....

 

[AZLineman]

Correction it's going to be a carbon fiber shaft seal/liner