I know there's a lot of experience and wisdom on here so figured I'd throw this out there as I am at my wits end with my local Toyota dealer. My wife's 4Runner AC decided to shit the bed last week. We just had our 2nd child who's 3 weeks old now. (Perfect timing). Anyways I took it into the local Toyota dealer to have them diagnose the issue. They came back and said it needed a new AC compressor and AC compressor clutch and recommended a new AC relay. Said it would be 1250 bucks to get it fixed. I spoke with my brother who's a Mercedes master tech and he checked on the parts for me. Around 600 bucks for factory Toyota parts. I tell the dealer I will pick up the car and pay the 200 dollar diagnosis fee. I have my brother get me the parts and we replaced them this past weekend in about an hour and he recharged it back to factory specs. Go to check the AC and it's the exact same as it was. I contact the dealer and tell the advisor what happpened and I told him I wanted to bring it back in to them as my brother doesn't have a Toyota scanner to troubleshoot. So i get a call today and am told it now needs a fan clutch and they recommend a new condenser due to their being a little overspray from a bumper repair on the condenser from when my wife decided to play bumper cars 5 + years ago. I tell the advisor to replace the fan clutch and that the AC had worked fine for the last 5 years with the overspray and not to do the condenser. I also left a message for the service manager and have yet to receive a phone call back. What's your guys thoughts on the phone call I get tomorrow saying the fan clutch didn't fix it. Also do you think I should raise hell to have them refund the initial diagnosis fee they charged for an incorrect diagnosis?
Opinions needed on dealer service
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rivermobster
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Couple of questions...
What year is this thing?
Is the check engine light on?
What Exactly is it doing or not doing?
What are the pressure readings after your bro in law recharged it?
4Waters
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I don't know what to tell you to do about the dealer but the fan clutch most likely won't fix it, that said are you sure the dampers are working in the a/c suitcase behind the dash when there's a problem it's supposed to default back to defrost so the damper might be stuck on heat no matter what you have the selector on. Just a guess hope this helps.
It's an 03 with the V8. No check engine light. AC compressor was cycling on and off. Dealer confirmed pressures were correct after recharge. Not sure on the readings.
Dampers are working as it puts out cold air then stops when the compressor kicks off. Dealer suggested a fan clutch as there saying it's putting out cold air when driving but at a stop it overpressurizes as there's not much air going across the condenser with the fan clutch not working properly.
I would think maybe one of your electric fans is not working. Those keep stuff cool at a stop. Is the car running warmer than normal at a stop? If your system has a high pressure switch, it will kick the compressor off when the pressure gets too high. This is usually caused by getting to hot-not enough air circulating or over charged with freon. I believe the fan clutch is beneficial at running rpms, not idle.
rivermobster
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The compressor is supposed to cycle on and off. Are you saying it's cycling and not getting cold??
If the compressor is cycling on and off, WITH THE PRESSURES CORRECT, it's most likely a bad pressure switch.
There is an easy way to verify this...
Jump the pressure switch and then see what the pressures are and what the temperature is at the A/C outlets. If everything works as it should with the pressure switch jumped, (the compressor stops cycling and the temp at the ducts are at 42 degrees or so) replace the pressure switch. I highly suggest you have gauges hooked up when you jump the switch, so you can see if they go too high, if there is a blockage somewhere in the system.
Personally, I think you need a third opinion from a real A/C guy.
A/C on a 03 vehicle should be pretty simple to diagnose, by someone that knows what he's doing. You do not need a scan tool.
If the fan clutch is bad, the high side pressure will be way too high and the system will not cool properly, but the compressor should still not be cycling on and off excessively.
P.S. Anyone check the cabin filter lately?? Is there good air flow through the dash vents??
bk2drvr
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Can you provide more details on what the problem is? You say it blows cold while you are moving down the road but when you are stopped it will only blow warm? If you start moving again does it start blowing cold again?
bk2drvr
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Also do you notice any reduction in air pressure at the vents? When the vent fans are at high speed do they seem to be moving the usual amount of air?
Old Texan
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When I get a high repair estimate, I always get a second or third opinion. Dealers are as prone to making a misdiagnosis as independent shops.
Changing parts gets expensive and is frustrating.
Changing parts gets expensive and is frustrating.
rivermobster
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SBMech
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Like Joe already said, that is not a complicated system.
Anyone competent with a set of gauges on it should be able to see what is really going on in 30 minutes.
Fan clutch will make it not cool properly at idle in traffic, but if all other parts of the system work properly going down the road it would work fine.
You don't really have a recourse with the diagnostic fee, without having proof from another qualified shop that looked at it BEFORE you changed all the parts. They can simply tell you your parts are faulty, incorrectly installed etc...since you have no real repair order from another A/C shop.
If you HAD let them fix it, THEN you could have gotten credit for misdiagnosis etc since it did not fix your problem.
Your Brother did not do his own diagnosis before just changing parts?
Justfishing
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The theory of A/C is pretty simple. You have a high pressure side that is a liquid and releases excess heat at the condenser. The liquid then goes to the evaporator and passess through and orifice and goes to low pressure and in the process goes from a liquid to a gas and becomes cold and absorbs heat (have you ever felt the side of propane cylinder when a grill is on. the cold area is the gas and the warm area is the liquid). Then the gas goes through the compressor and is converted back a liquid and the cycle repeats.
Any moisture in the system will collect at the orifice and reduce efficiency. The system should have had its dryer replaces and evacuated to remove moisture. After charging the high and low side pressure should be in the proper range. If it can not be achieved that is an indication of a bad compressor, restriction, freon charge on mot enough air flow.
Auto A/C works a little different than your home ac.To control the temp only some of the air is blown over the evaporator. This is controlled by the blend door, The blend door is buried under the dash and can be hard to determine its operation, The ac itself could be working fine but the blend door could be the problem.
Any moisture in the system will collect at the orifice and reduce efficiency. The system should have had its dryer replaces and evacuated to remove moisture. After charging the high and low side pressure should be in the proper range. If it can not be achieved that is an indication of a bad compressor, restriction, freon charge on mot enough air flow.
Auto A/C works a little different than your home ac.To control the temp only some of the air is blown over the evaporator. This is controlled by the blend door, The blend door is buried under the dash and can be hard to determine its operation, The ac itself could be working fine but the blend door could be the problem.
bk2drvr
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Any update on this? Curious to know the root cause of the issue.
rivermobster
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This should take anyone that knows what they are doing no time at all to figure out!
Go pick up your truck and take it somewhere else. No way you're still under warranty, so there is no reason to be at this dealership!
#stopthebleedeing
Dealer service manager finally called me back last night after I raised hell with the customer service lady as to why I couldn't get a a call back from a service manager within 24 hours of leaving a message for him. Said there going to make it right and I should have the car back tonight. We'll see this has been a fiasco like I've never seen. I am going to make sure I go to pick the car up and go through it with the service manager. Thanks for all the advise and knowledge!
Hello. How do you know it was not diagnosed correctly? What was wrong with the compressor was it leaking or making noise or was the clutch bad. If the compressor would not run at all then there would be know way to check the rest of the a/c system until primary work was done. If the compressor came apart inside and was making noise i would recommend replacing the condenser. If they get metal in them you may not ever get it flushed out. As to the fan clutch. I have seen many fan clutches go bad and cause the a/c pressure to get high and the system to not cool correctly at idle or low speed. Now let talk about price a person can always buy the parts cheaper than they will charge at a shop. Many dealers service department sell the parts less over the parts counter than they do at there service department. If you take your car in for diagnoses and decline the repairs and then take it back after the repairs were done by you and your friend I do not see that going in you favor.
I hope it all works out for you.
I hope it all works out for you.
If some goes in to a business and declines the repairs and then comes back in and is asking for money back do you think they will be treated as a valued customer.there is a saying that you can not give goodwill if there is no goodwill to be had.
rivermobster
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That's a positive thing that they are going to make it right. That's the best thing they can do.
Clearly the idiot tech is replacing parts left and right instead of correctly diagnosing the problem, and lying to the service manager about what he is doing.
Make sure you get an invoice. The story will be all lies, but at least you'll have something to fall back on!
When I first took it in the compressor was cycling on and off from overpresuring the system. I didn't ask for any money back for the original diagnosis just told them I needed it fixed asap as my wife needed her car back and I was sick of the BS back and forth. They are replacing the condenser and receiver dryer. At this point there shouldn't be much more to replace although I'm pretty sure 2/3 of the parts they threw at weren't needed. Lesson learned for me for sure.
rivermobster
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There are lots more parts to replace. Let's see how this plan plays out.
Thanks for the update. 👍
