Need some electric fuel pump advice

[SixD9R]

Hello everyone. I been having fuel pump issues on my tunnel jet for some time now and was wondering if the RDP the brain trust would be able to offer some advice. I have a carbed '92 gen 5 BBC that is an Indmar engine. For the first 15-20 years that I have owned it, the original fuel pump worked flawlessly. The original pump was a Carter, something like the one in the pic below. I have to run electric since the engine has no provision for a mechanical pump. I stated having issues after the boat would sit for a while in that the pump wouldn't suck fuel from the tank even though the pump was running. But, if I disconnect the outlet line and dump some fuel down it everything would be great for a while until the boat sat again. I replaced the pump with another one like the pic and the new one immediately sucked fuel without priming and all was well for a while. I then started having the same problem again after a few years. I suspect the alcohol in today's fuel is causing the problem but not sure. So, now I'm looking to replace the pump again because I really don't want to take a chance of it failing on the water. I would love to swap to a Holley red but Holley is warning right on their website that the pump must be gravity fed and that includes the marine version as well. I even contacted Holley to inquire about pulling fuel and was told the same thing. Since the boat has saddle tanks, gravity feed is not possible. Additionally, I once heard that it's regulation in marine applications the pump has to suck fuel rather than gravity feed for safety reasons but not really a point for me since my tanks are so low. So, does anyone have any experience with Holley red pumps in suction applications? Or is there another pump I should be looking at? Hopefully one that won't break the bank. Sorry for the long message and thank you very much for any possible help! Normally suction and head are a good thing when used together

 

[4Waters]

Look at aeromotive

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com

 

[CoolCruzin]

Carter is a good pump
Just replace it again

 

[wet hull]

I run the Aeromotive on a N/A 540. My fuel pressure guage at the carbs, also Aeromotive holds so perfect on set pressure you would think it wasn't working.

 

[braindead]

I've been running the Holley red for 5 years as a sucker / pusher and it's worked great, I also have saddle tanks and the pump is mounted near the middle of the transom

If you haven't already u should wire the pump to work off of the oil pressure in the engine, not the key. So in case of an accident when the motor shuts off the pump shuts off

 

[was thatguy]

I have a 10 year old blue Holley on the Miller.
BBC with 2 4150 750 holleys with single regulator at a fuel block before the carbs.
It doesn’t have an oil pressure sensor or a relay. Works fine mounted low on a stringer after the dual tank T.

On my Hydro I had an Aeromotive that was a damn nice pump. It was overkill but was quality for sure. I had it on a relay, with a regulator and a return.

In your case, I would not hesitate to put in a Holley Blue with the supplied regulator.

 

[rivrrts429]

Look at aeromotive

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com

This ^^^^^ and never look back again. The price is higher but the cost is lower. Think about how much you’ve already spent on the other pumps. The Aeromotive likely would still be working fine.

 

[Ragged Edge]

Look at aeromotive

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com

X 2. I have two of these in the Fountain: https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/marine-carbureted-ho-fuel-pump/

Installed them in 2011 and they have been bullet proof so far. If you need more flow/higher pressure go with this one: https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/marine-carbureted-ss-fuel-pump/ and a regulator.

 

[SixD9R]

Thanks for all the reply's guys! I'm torn between the Holley and the Aeromotive. The Aeromotive guys are making a great argument and I'm actually sold on the quality. My problem is I'm just not sure if I want to spend the money. I have another project in my toy garage to do this summer and the mrs. is really getting tired of me spending time and money on that. This project might put me in the dog house lol.

When I do the pump, I'm going to upgrade the filters and all the lines to braided and that is also not a cheap proposition. I presently have rubber from the tanks to the pump and stainless hard line from the pump to the carb.

Thanks again and happy boating!

 

[was thatguy]

Thanks for all the reply's guys! I'm torn between the Holley and the Aeromotive. The Aeromotive guys are making a great argument and I'm actually sold on the quality. My problem is I'm just not sure if I want to spend the money. I have another project in my toy garage to do this summer and the mrs. is really getting tired of me spending time and money on that. This project might put me in the dog house lol.

When I do the pump, I'm going to upgrade the filters and all the lines to braided and that is also not a cheap proposition. I presently have rubber from the tanks to the pump and stainless hard line from the pump to the carb.

Thanks again and happy boating!

I’ve had both.
Arromotive is next level, but not always required.

 

[4Waters]

Thanks for all the reply's guys! I'm torn between the Holley and the Aeromotive. The Aeromotive guys are making a great argument and I'm actually sold on the quality. My problem is I'm just not sure if I want to spend the money. I have another project in my toy garage to do this summer and the mrs. is really getting tired of me spending time and money on that. This project might put me in the dog house lol.

When I do the pump, I'm going to upgrade the filters and all the lines to braided and that is also not a cheap proposition. I presently have rubber from the tanks to the pump and stainless hard line from the pump to the carb.

Thanks again and happy boating!

You don't want rubber lined fuel line, you want PTFE, it won't breakdown from the E85 blend fuels.

https://hotrodfuelhose.com/blogs/ra...eck-is-it-why-is-ptfe-hose-better-than-rubber

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220985/

 

[Taboma]

Hello everyone. I been having fuel pump issues on my tunnel jet for some time now and was wondering if the RDP the brain trust would be able to offer some advice. I have a carbed '92 gen 5 BBC that is an Indmar engine. For the first 15-20 years that I have owned it, the original fuel pump worked flawlessly. The original pump was a Carter, something like the one in the pic below. I have to run electric since the engine has no provision for a mechanical pump. I stated having issues after the boat would sit for a while in that the pump wouldn't suck fuel from the tank even though the pump was running. But, if I disconnect the outlet line and dump some fuel down it everything would be great for a while until the boat sat again. I replaced the pump with another one like the pic and the new one immediately sucked fuel without priming and all was well for a while. I then started having the same problem again after a few years. I suspect the alcohol in today's fuel is causing the problem but not sure. So, now I'm looking to replace the pump again because I really don't want to take a chance of it failing on the water. I would love to swap to a Holley red but Holley is warning right on their website that the pump must be gravity fed and that includes the marine version as well. I even contacted Holley to inquire about pulling fuel and was told the same thing. Since the boat has saddle tanks, gravity feed is not possible. Additionally, I once heard that it's regulation in marine applications the pump has to suck fuel rather than gravity feed for safety reasons but not really a point for me since my tanks are so low. So, does anyone have any experience with Holley red pumps in suction applications? Or is there another pump I should be looking at? Hopefully one that won't break the bank. Sorry for the long message and thank you very much for any possible help! Normally suction and head are a good thing when used together
View attachment 738317

I bought this exact same pump when I made my portable fuel transfer pump. I use this to move gas between water and land vehicles so it doesn't sit and go bad.
First few times I used it, it pumped great --- albeit not as good as an old Holley Blue I'd used for years prior (It burned up in the house fire). The last time I went to transfer fuel, it sounded like it was running, but wasn't pumping. A couple of whacks with my big ass screwdriver handle and it took off pumping again. This time I tried to make sure I fully drained it before storing it.
My Holley electrics both blue and red have worked fine sucking up from my tanks in my boat, which would be a more normal marine application since as you stated, gravity feed isn't allowed.
Good Luck !!

 

[TrollerDave]

I have a 10 year old blue Holley on the Miller.
BBC with 2 4150 750 holleys with single regulator at a fuel block before the carbs.
It doesn’t have an oil pressure sensor or a relay. Works fine mounted low on a stringer after the dual tank T.

In your case, I would not hesitate to put in a Holley Blue with the supplied regulator.

Mine is the same way. The only issue is after it has sat for a couple of months and the gas has evaporated out. To prime the pump, I have to either park on a hill, transom at the bottom. Or disconnect the fuel lines at the tanks and pour enough gas into them to prime the pump.

Hello everyone. I been having fuel pump issues on my tunnel jet for some time now and was wondering if the RDP the brain trust would be able to offer some advice. I have a carbed '92 gen 5 BBC that is an Indmar engine. For the first 15-20 years that I have owned it, the original fuel pump worked flawlessly. The original pump was a Carter, something like the one in the pic below. I have to run electric since the engine has no provision for a mechanical pump. I stated having issues after the boat would sit for a while in that the pump wouldn't suck fuel from the tank even though the pump was running. But, if I disconnect the outlet line and dump some fuel down it everything would be great for a while until the boat sat again. I replaced the pump with another one like the pic and the new one immediately sucked fuel without priming and all was well for a while. I then started having the same problem again after a few years. I suspect the alcohol in today's fuel is causing the problem but not sure. So, now I'm looking to replace the pump again because I really don't want to take a chance of it failing on the water. I would love to swap to a Holley red but Holley is warning right on their website that the pump must be gravity fed and that includes the marine version as well. I even contacted Holley to inquire about pulling fuel and was told the same thing. Since the boat has saddle tanks, gravity feed is not possible. Additionally, I once heard that it's regulation in marine applications the pump has to suck fuel rather than gravity feed for safety reasons but not really a point for me since my tanks are so low. So, does anyone have any experience with Holley red pumps in suction applications? Or is there another pump I should be looking at? Hopefully one that won't break the bank.

How long is a "while" that it has problems starting after sitting? Have you changed your fuel lines before? Any trouble running after the motor has started? Do you have a bypass/return line going back to the tanks? Is your filter before or after the pump?

The Carter pump looks like it's sealed. The Holley can be opened up and you can see and clean the pumping mechanism. I couldn't get it primed one time. So I took it apart and found some debris and crud. Cleaned it and put it back together, it's still working great.

 

[rivermobster]

Hello everyone. I been having fuel pump issues on my tunnel jet for some time now and was wondering if the RDP the brain trust would be able to offer some advice. I have a carbed '92 gen 5 BBC that is an Indmar engine. For the first 15-20 years that I have owned it, the original fuel pump worked flawlessly. The original pump was a Carter, something like the one in the pic below. I have to run electric since the engine has no provision for a mechanical pump. I stated having issues after the boat would sit for a while in that the pump wouldn't suck fuel from the tank even though the pump was running. But, if I disconnect the outlet line and dump some fuel down it everything would be great for a while until the boat sat again. I replaced the pump with another one like the pic and the new one immediately sucked fuel without priming and all was well for a while. I then started having the same problem again after a few years. I suspect the alcohol in today's fuel is causing the problem but not sure. So, now I'm looking to replace the pump again because I really don't want to take a chance of it failing on the water. I would love to swap to a Holley red but Holley is warning right on their website that the pump must be gravity fed and that includes the marine version as well. I even contacted Holley to inquire about pulling fuel and was told the same thing. Since the boat has saddle tanks, gravity feed is not possible. Additionally, I once heard that it's regulation in marine applications the pump has to suck fuel rather than gravity feed for safety reasons but not really a point for me since my tanks are so low. So, does anyone have any experience with Holley red pumps in suction applications? Or is there another pump I should be looking at? Hopefully one that won't break the bank. Sorry for the long message and thank you very much for any possible help! Normally suction and head are a good thing when used together
View attachment 738317

All electric pumps need to be gravity fed. Including the Aeromotive.

You have a configuration problem that needs to be solved, or you will continue to destroy the pump.

Maybe give Aeromotive a call this morning? They have tons of options. Include belt drive pumps. I would guess they would have Something for you.

 

[mash on it]

I've had the same Carter fuel pump on my jet. Mounted above the jet on the transom. Been that way for nearly 10 years, gen V block also. So far, trouble free. Easily supports ~500 hp.

Possibly its sucking air at one of the fittings/hose connections.

Dan'l

 

[was thatguy]

All electric pumps need to be gravity fed. Including the Aeromotive.

You have a configuration problem that needs to be solved, or you will continue to destroy the pump.

Maybe give Aeromotive a call this morning? They have tons of options. Include belt drive pumps. I would guess they would have Something for you.

This.

It’s important that the pump be at the lowest point along the supply route.
They will work at first (usually), but simply won’t last if they are sucking the whole time.

 

[Taboma]

The challenge with most of the electric fuel pumps we use, is satisfying the manufacturer (Close to tank -- gravity feed, pusher pump) and the USCG/ABYC regs requirement of mounting within 12" of engine, required oil pressure switch and anti-siphon valve. Most of these regs cover testing requirements, but around pages 90-100 there's some excellent information, we should at least be aware of. These regs could rear their ugly heads should litigation result from an onboard fire and the cause be attributed to our own negligence. I'm going to attach the ABYC Regs.

 

[rrrr]

You have a configuration problem that needs to be solved, or you will continue to destroy the pump.

Joe posts the right answer.

 

[Taboma]

Joe posts the right answer.

Fair enough, with an electric FP mounted so it's gravity fed, is it really gravity fed if it's required to essentially suck (crack) open the required tank anti-siphon valve ?
It's either the anti-siphon valve or all your fuel line routing between the tank and the carb (or engine) must be above the fuel tank. Or 3rd option is fuel shutoff at the tank, but accessible from outside the engine compartment.
CFR 183.568

 

[SixD9R]

Thanks again for the help! I don't mean to start any controversy but here's a few more comments further explaining my setup and history. I have owned this boat since new in 1992. The first Carter pump worked great for a very long time and then one spring it wouldn't draw fuel out of the tank. I primed it and I think it worked for a while like maybe even the whole summer. The next time I couldn't get it to suck fuel I scraped it and replaced it with one like in the picture which I think was exactly the same as the original. That one worked for a few seasons before I started having issues but then I didn't use the boat for a couple of summers and now I'm in the same situation again. I can prime the pump and it will pump all day. But, after a couple of weeks (I honestly don't know how long it takes but it's no more than 3 weeks) it will not pump unless I prime it again. When I replaced the pump I did not prime it and it sucked fuel within a few seconds. The rubber lines are very old but they look great and I don't think the pump is sucking air though any leaks in the lines because it works fine after I prime it. I want to upgrade to braided lines for a few reasons, partially since mine are old and if I go to a different style pump some line mods would be needed anyway. What originally attracted me to Holley pumps was the face that the fuel end can be easily rebuilt whereas the Carter pump is sealed so once it dies it's dead. Some have expressed concern with my configuration and the fact that the pump has to suck instead of gravity fed. With saddle tanks, there is just no way to gravity feed the pump and I have to believe that there a probably hundreds or thousands of boats with that configuration which is why I posted the question in the first place. Base on what I have always understood and what Taboma and others have said that's the way is has to be per USCG regs. The factory mount location of my current pump is on the motor just above the oil pan about where a mechanical pump would be. There is an inline filter on each line coming out of the tank. There is no regulator or bypass since the pump only puts out around 7 PSI. It could be a mental block on my end but I think if the first Carter worked for 15-20 years before the first failure I gotta believe a Holley will do the same. If I do have a problem with the Holley I can easily rebuild it. Just a guess on my part but I really think the Alcohol in the gas is partially to blame. In 92 that wasn't a concern.

 

[farmo83]

Whatever pump your put on it put an inline filter in front of it.

 

[Riodog]

It doesn't sound like your problem is the fuel pump. You're losing suction somewhere in the system. If you have 15-20 year old lines just spend the money and replace the fittings in the top of your tanks and then the entire lines (w/new clamps) from tank to the pump. The entire set-up as you describe shouldn't be over about 110 bucks.(w/carter pump, line ,2 filters, etc).
Rio

 

[rrrr]

The pump suction is collapsing the 20 year old fuel lines. If you don't want to spend a bunch of money, just replace them with USCG type A fuel hose. It's not too expensive, and it won't collapse under suction.

https://www.amazon.com/Fuel-Hose-US...+Fuel+F&qid=1553582576&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr3

 

[Taboma]

Thanks again for the help! I don't mean to start any controversy but here's a few more comments further explaining my setup and history. I have owned this boat since new in 1992. The first Carter pump worked great for a very long time and then one spring it wouldn't draw fuel out of the tank. I primed it and I think it worked for a while like maybe even the whole summer. The next time I couldn't get it to suck fuel I scraped it and replaced it with one like in the picture which I think was exactly the same as the original. That one worked for a few seasons before I started having issues but then I didn't use the boat for a couple of summers and now I'm in the same situation again. I can prime the pump and it will pump all day. But, after a couple of weeks (I honestly don't know how long it takes but it's no more than 3 weeks) it will not pump unless I prime it again. When I replaced the pump I did not prime it and it sucked fuel within a few seconds. The rubber lines are very old but they look great and I don't think the pump is sucking air though any leaks in the lines because it works fine after I prime it. I want to upgrade to braided lines for a few reasons, partially since mine are old and if I go to a different style pump some line mods would be needed anyway. What originally attracted me to Holley pumps was the face that the fuel end can be easily rebuilt whereas the Carter pump is sealed so once it dies it's dead. Some have expressed concern with my configuration and the fact that the pump has to suck instead of gravity fed. With saddle tanks, there is just no way to gravity feed the pump and I have to believe that there a probably hundreds or thousands of boats with that configuration which is why I posted the question in the first place. Base on what I have always understood and what Taboma and others have said that's the way is has to be per USCG regs. The factory mount location of my current pump is on the motor just above the oil pan about where a mechanical pump would be. There is an inline filter on each line coming out of the tank. There is no regulator or bypass since the pump only puts out around 7 PSI. It could be a mental block on my end but I think if the first Carter worked for 15-20 years before the first failure I gotta believe a Holley will do the same. If I do have a problem with the Holley I can easily rebuild it. Just a guess on my part but I really think the Alcohol in the gas is partially to blame. In 92 that wasn't a concern.

No controversy intended. I run a Holley Blue mounted low, mounted on a stringer close to the engine so essentially a puller more than a pusher. With no provisions on engine for mechanical. Been like this since new.
Your thread got me looking and that's when I found the Holley install instructions stating for the Red, it had to be gravity fed and act as a pusher, hence mounted close to the tank. On the Blue it states "Works better" as a pusher, didn't use the same terminology as with the Red.
Continuing to search I found the regulations, read them and began to wonder if my two tanks even have the anti-siphon valves and if so how this affects the gravity equation that Holley seems to require.
This isn't the first incidence where it seems that certain custom boat builders and production builders alike, treat the USCG Regs as suggestions rather than being mandatory, or ignore it altogether such as the infamous Blue Light bullshit. Hell, my Cole didn't even come with a legal stern light, since it's mounted in the transom and not on a pole.
For years Nordic produced boats with their custom built in red and green bow navigation lights that were never USCG approved. Like I wrote above, the regulations are simply suggestions in the custom recreational boat arena.

It also surprises me (Although it shouldn't) where a manufacturers product many of us depend on, seem to be at odds with the regulations the application requires.

I will continue to use what's always worked, I can't easily get to my tank tops to see if there's a valve or not, life will go on ---- although I'll replace the ole Blue with a Mallory that seems to get much better reviews and while I'm at it, all new fuel lines. As far as being in Reg compliance, maybe I am, maybe I'm not, it's how the boat was built, there's not much I can do about it. The question is, why the fuck doesn't somebody make a pump that pulls as good as it pushes ?

Regardless, I did find the regulations a very interesting read and certainly there's some solid info there. I was amazed at the depth the regulations get into hose clamps -- wow !!

I posted the regs, not to frustrate you, or me (Although I am), but I was hoping somebody far more knowledgeable, like a builder as an example, would chime in.
If there's truly a right way to do this and remain in compliance with the Regs, nobody is sharing.

If Joe's right, I'd like to know why and how the anti-siphon valve (Assuming we even have them) affects the required gravity feed.

That Carter pump you have, I have in a different application, my take is, it's OK as a portable fuel transfer pump WHEN it works --- tap tap with the screwdriver. At one time that might have been a decent pump, currently my review would rate it as Chinese crap and I'd never run one on my boat.

I agree, buy the Holley, but I think based on what I read on the Holley site, I'd go with the Blue -- which has worked fine and replaced the Red, which didn't work as well at least for me.
Good Luck

 

[wet hull]

I have this sitting on my shelf. Pump has maybe 4hrs on it. I bought when mine went out on the water just to get us through the day. Put my Aeromotive in next trip out. Had Hollet regualtor with it. Make any reasonable offer and its its yours.