Max Machine Whale Tail

[02HoWaRd26]

Anybody in between Havasu to Bullhead happen to have a Max machine Whale Tale? If so any chance anyone would be willing to let me borrow it tonight or tomorrow to see if it helps. Just added the -2 and cannot for the life of me get this boat to roll over into plane.
Aaron is gone already so I’m sol till Monday with them.... but talked to another who said that very well could fix my issue.
For sale or one i can borrow for a day please let me know.

 

[Singleton]

You have to drill 4 or 6 holes in the upper to mount it.
Not sure you want to do, since that upper is new.
I think the -2 is causing the issue, I would try the standard before anything else.

 

[Ragged Edge]

Have you tried turning when accelerating? I know the offshore guys do that with the big cats to help them roll over.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

You have to drill 4 or 6 holes in the upper to mount it.
Not sure you want to do, since that upper is new.
I think the -2 is causing the issue, I would try the standard before anything else.

It’s already drilled for the stainless IMCO one, same bolt pattern but this is way smaller.
To try and go to a standard right away would be hard to do but I’ll wait to hear from Aaron, just figure if i can find a whale tail to try tomorrow then perfect even if it doesn’t work I’ll know. Work will be here tomorrow night till Wednesday so then I’m up shit creek for next weekend that i already have off!

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Have you tried turning when accelerating? I know the offshore guys do that with the big cats to help them roll over.

Yea i tried that as that’s a trick I’ve known. My boat prior rolled over so quick but it’s partially as i always rolled with a slight turn to port.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

You have to drill 4 or 6 holes in the upper to mount it.
Not sure you want to do, since that upper is new.
I think the -2 is causing the issue, I would try the standard before anything else.

 

[Icky]

Have you tried a different prop?

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Have you tried a different prop?

Yea tried my 25, 26, & 28 all same results.

 

[Enen]

You may have better luck finding a 5 blade prop to try.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I’m getting one on my new mm drive being installed monday. If you want to install it on your boat next week and try it that’s fine.

 

[Singleton]

I have everything you need in Carlsbad.
If I do DS I will be in Havasu Wednesday night, tale is on my boat and I have a 26-4 Blade and 25-5 Blade in my storage unit.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I’m getting one on my new mm drive being installed monday. If you want to install it on your boat next week and try it that’s fine.

I appreciate that, if i can’t find something for tomorrow I’ll just have to buy a battery for my buggy so we can go to the river tomorrow, lol, and then I’ll run to MMW as soon as I’m home and their open.

I have everything you need in Carlsbad.
If I do DS I will be in Havasu Wednesday night, tale is on my boat and I have a 26-4 Blade and 25-5 Blade in my storage unit.

That 25-5 might be something of fun to try. I’m really really really hoping it just needs that tale.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

5’s don’t work well on my daytona.

 

[Demoman]

The max machine tail worked great on my 27 Shadow. When I went from the 525 to the 848 with a 32pitch the boat planed very slow. Added the tail and the boat rolled over much faster

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I don't know for sure.... but, regardless... you need to take the crescent out of that lower..

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I had a boaht doing the same thing, a 29' force ,800plus hp 598. got on plane fast... put he -2 and it struggled,... took the cresent out and added fixed tunnel tabs like stoker does...jumped on plane and picked up another 5mph wot....it also handled way better , packed air sooner and such...

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I don't know for sure.... but, regardless... you need to take the crescent out of that lower..

What is the Crescent? May be something to attempt today. I took next weekend off really hope to be on the water too

 

[HavaToon]

What is the Crescent? May be something to attempt today. I took next weekend off really hope to be on the water too

The shape of the leading edge on the lower. 2FF is basically suggesting you go back to a standard XR/Bravo lower.


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[UltraLucky]

What is the Crescent? May be something to attempt today. I took next weekend off really hope to be on the water too

If you look at the leading edge above the bullett. The Imco lowers have a crecent which will have a negative effect on some boats. Attached is the sportmaster lower which does not have the crescent.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

CLE - crescent leading edge

 

[Taboma]

If you look at the leading edge above the bullett. The Imco lowers have a crecent which will have a negative effect on some boats. Attached is the sportmaster lower which does not have the crescent.

Is that plate in the pic the whale tail ? Is the need for this common on both Vee and Tunnels when going with a -2" shorty ?

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Your boat is a daytona 25, 26?

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Your boat is a daytona 25, 26?

No it’s actually the WPM 23’ lower hull, the boat is an Orion Magnum 24’10”

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Is that plate in the pic the whale tail ? Is the need for this common on both Vee and Tunnels when going with a -2" shorty ?

 

[UltraLucky]

Is that plate in the pic the whale tail ? Is the need for this common on both Vee and Tunnels when going with a -2" shorty ?

Mine works with or without it. I prefer the ride with the max marine plate. That picture is with the max plate. Better view of the plate

 

[02HoWaRd26]

The shape of the leading edge on the lower. 2FF is basically suggesting you go back to a standard XR/Bravo lower.


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If you look at the leading edge above the bullett. The Imco lowers have a crecent which will have a negative effect on some boats. Attached is the sportmaster lower which does not have the crescent.

CLE - crescent leading edge

Gotcha, yea i will attempt the Cav plate first then discuss with Aaron of MMW. Prior to doing this i researched them (MMW) and frankly have no worry they won’t help get me fixed regardless, seems the fact there’s not a single negative or bash online anywhere in regards to them so yea i feel safe in all ways with that.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Is that plate in the pic the whale tail ? Is the need for this common on both Vee and Tunnels when going with a -2" shorty ?

Based upon this it may not be a fix all for EVERY boat but seems to help most every boat.
https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/max-machine-worx-drive-education.188298/

 

[UltraLucky]

Gotcha, yea i will attempt the Cav plate first then discuss with Aaron of MMW. Prior to doing this i researched them (MMW) and frankly have no worry they won’t help get me fixed regardless, seems the fact there’s not a single negative or bash online anywhere in regards to them so yea i feel safe in all ways with that.

They built my lower and was very happy with the service and the time they spent going over everything.

 

[DB / HAV]

I think RD will loan you his trailer?

 

[Taboma]

View attachment 746935

I see, so the Max Machine is designed not only to act as a tab, but to better contain the thrust to keep it from blowing out vertically ?
Yet on some surface or semi-surface applications it seems they promote prop blow by venting to spin up the revs --- this design appears to perform the opposite.
I'm curious since I've been told I should go with a -2 shorty on my Cole --- and I'm also old enough to know, you rarely can just change ONE thing, because one begets another --- so on and so forth until your broke, LOL

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I see, so the Max Machine is designed not only to act as a tab, but to better contain the thrust to keep it from blowing out vertically ?
Yet on some surface or semi-surface applications it seems they promote prop blow by venting to spin up the revs --- this design appears to perform the opposite.
I'm curious since I've been told I should go with a -2 shorty on my Cole --- and I'm also old enough to know, you rarely can just change ONE thing, because one begets another --- so on and so forth until your broke, LOL

See that’s another positive about them at MMW, he actually didn’t want to put the cav plate on my boat till after i tested it. He likes to do one change at a time. Mine is all replaced and upgraded inside, but the change was the -2 IMCO lower housing. As Ultra Lucky said they spend good time explaining everything before and after the sale, i was semi in a rush when i picked it up, but they wanted to show and explain the differences of what they do so you actually see what your money went to.
If all works out I’ll be meeting up and getting a plate this afternoon. If i do and test and that fixes the issue perfect, if not well then i will talk to them about what they propose ultimately.

 

[wet hull]

Could a piece be made like a nose cone add on to eleminate the cresent? If not invented yet, I call all rights

 

[Flying_Lavey]

OP.... Is the boat just cavitating or are the R's just never climbing enough to get to the power to roll it over?

I don't know for sure.... but, regardless... you need to take the crescent out of that lower..

I had a boaht doing the same thing, a 29' force ,800plus hp 598. got on plane fast... put he -2 and it struggled,... took the cresent out and added fixed tunnel tabs like stoker does...jumped on plane and picked up another 5mph wot....it also handled way better , packed air sooner and such...

So you eliminated the crescent and added static cav plates at the same time? If so, I just about guarantee eliminating the present did much at all. I just fail to see how the crescent shape has much of any effect of the boat when planning.

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[BajaMike]

Have you had work done on the engine lately? I had a hundred hour service done on one of my perfectly running boats and after that it idled fine, but would not get on plane with a small load in the boat. Took it back to the shop, they realized they had reversed two of the spark plug wires.

I think its an engine or prop issue, not a “whale tail” issue. If not an engine “service” mistake, take it out with light load, lowest prop and try it.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

OP.... Is the boat just cavitating or are the R's just never climbing enough to get to the power to roll it over?So you eliminated the crescent and added static cav plates at the same time? If so, I just about guarantee eliminating the present did much at all. I just fail to see how the crescent shape has much of any effect of the boat when planning.

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I'd explain it to you but you still would argue....

 

[Racey]

Is that plate in the pic the whale tail ? Is the need for this common on both Vee and Tunnels when going with a -2" shorty ?

It's because the normal "cav plate" or "whale tale" would be cast into the lower unit itself, on a -2 lower there is no room in the casting for it, it's basically gone (it was in the part of the casting that you removed the 2 inches from). So this mounts to the upper lip to take the place of the lower one that is missing.

 

[Taboma]

I'd explain it to you but you still would argue....

Yes, because he's the only one reading this Come on Steve, pretend you're blogging about RV's and share

 

[4Waters]

I'd explain it to you but you still would argue....

I want to know as well. No guarantees that I won't argue but pretty good chance I won't because this is an interesting topic. LOL

 

[Groper]

I know where you can find a nice XR Lower

 

[2FORCEFULL]

an easy way to explain it is , going across the water, dip you hand in the water … thumb pointing forward...now turn you hand palm first... of coarse do this going slow..with the cresent, as you trim up the bullet has the same drag effect on the drive,.. same as when you tuck the drive... I think it actually causes prop blow out

 

[2FORCEFULL]

It's because the normal "cav plate" or "whale tale" would be cast into the lower unit itself, on a -2 lower there is no room in the casting for it, it's basically gone (it was in the part of the casting that you removed the 2 inches from). So this mounts to the upper lip to take the place of the lower one that is missing.

I remember before you were old enough to grow wiskers, you changed out the lowers to shorty's on my force with twins

 

[02HoWaRd26]

OP.... Is the boat just cavitating or are the R's just never climbing enough to get to the power to roll it over?
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No was like running trailer tires on a drag car. Just blew the prop out of the water, i even tried another guys 28p and it blew that out as well. I’ve talked to a few that had exactly same issue when going -2 and the fix was the whale tail. We are hoping to get a solution today.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Have you had work done on the engine lately? I had a hundred hour service done on one of my perfectly running boats and after that it idled fine, but would not get on plane with a small load in the boat. Took it back to the shop, they realized they had reversed two of the spark plug wires.

I think its an engine or prop issue, not a “whale tail” issue. If not an engine “service” mistake, take it out with light load, lowest prop and try it.

No haven’t touched anything on the motor and being it’s the only change since last use was the shorter drive that’s what the issue is, now finding the appropriate solution is the fun.

Has nothing to do with prop service or motor.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Anybody in between Havasu to Bullhead happen to have a Max machine Whale Tale? If so any chance anyone would be willing to let me borrow it tonight or tomorrow to see if it helps. Just added the -2 and cannot for the life of me get this boat to roll over into plane.
Aaron is gone already so I’m sol till Monday with them.... but talked to another who said that very well could fix my issue.
For sale or one i can borrow for a day please let me know. 702-378-2152 Peter

you ran this before with standard short shaft? or is an all new to you drive and boat?

 

[Jonas Grumby]

You say you blow the prop out, did you used to just floor it and it would stay hooked up and you would go on plane? I’m just guessing without your answer, for me I could just blow the prop out, but hold throttle just before blowout, rolls right over in a few seconds, I’m a hair above the bottom of the sponsons. With a 32 4 blade, even heavy, no problem.
I assume you adjusted your driving style to compensate for the higher x demention.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

No haven’t touched anything on the motor and being it’s the only change since last use was the shorter drive that’s what the issue is, now finding the appropriate solution is the fun.

Has nothing to do with prop service or motor.

you ran this before with standard short shaft? or is an all new to you drive and boat?

I had a bad gear in drive
I had them rebuild drive
While at it decided to go -2 as my boat has a real low X
I’ve had boat two years now

 

[Flying_Lavey]

an easy way to explain it is , going across the water, dip you hand in the water … thumb pointing forward...now turn you hand palm first... of coarse do this going slow..with the cresent, as you trim up the bullet has the same drag effect on the drive,.. same as when you tuck the drive... I think it actually causes prop blow out

We'll... You're right...I am gonna argue. That has nothing to do with the crescent shape. The crescent shape is the concave edge above the torpedo. I see your logic though for the extended torpedo length and there have been tests to show it can hurt performance at least due to the increased drag of the increased surface area.

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[02HoWaRd26]

You say you blow the prop out, did you used to just floor it and it would stay hooked up and you would go on plane? I’m just guessing without your answer, for me I could just blow the prop out, but hold throttle just before blowout, rolls right over in a few seconds, I’m a hair above the bottom of the sponsons. With a 32 4 blade, even heavy, no problem.
I assume you adjusted your driving style to compensate for the higher x demention.

No used to roll out about 1/2 throttle then back down to about 1/3 then boat would roll flat.
I tried everything from moving anchor ice chest wife and son up to the nose of bow.

 

[UltraLucky]

No used to roll out about 1/2 throttle then back down to about 1/3 then boat would roll flat.
I tried everything from moving anchor ice chest wife and son up to the nose of bow.

Did you step up in pitch with the -2? Usually need to go up a couple inches.

 

[Singleton]

Did you step up in pitch with the -2? Usually need to go up a couple inches.

Normal prop is a 26 for that boat, he tired a 28 with no luck