LEAPS Hydro project on Lake Elsinore

[Mark Baker]

Testing boats monthly at Lake Elsinore i've notice the State Launch "La Laguna" is undergoing a multi million dollar renovation. New ramp, parking lot the size of three football fields, new tackle shop, rental huts, rental air stream trailers, ect. Now why would they invest this kind of money with the lakes health deteriorating?
i did a little research and found leapshydro.com
They plan on building a reservoir in the Ortega mountains, pump water up to the reservior at night. Then let the water drain down into Lake Elsinore through turbines generating electricity. With this they will maintain the lakes level year around.
So i asked the guard shack lady if he knew about the project. She told me that the "high ups" have been busy with an upcoming lake project and preparing the State Park for it.
Its unclear to me if this project is actually going to happen.

Can anyone on here confirm?

from the site
Lake Elsinore Advanced Pumped Storage (LEAPS) project is a proposed 500 megawatt pumped-storage hydroelectricity power project located in Lake Elsinore, California. Combining time-tested large scale energy storage technology and the distinctive geography of Lake Elsinore, LEAPS will provide load balancing and power on-demand to the Southern California grid.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

I see a 35 mph speed limit on the horizon.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't you expend at least the same amount of energy to pump the water from Elsinore up to the reservoir as you would produce by the water dropping back down through the turbine?

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I see a 35 mph speed limit on the horizon.

Thats what it is now I think, other than the speed alley section in the middle, and thats closed on weekends.

 

[sintax]

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't you expend at least the same amount of energy to pump the water from Elsinore up to the reservoir as you would produce by the water dropping back down through the turbine?

From what I understand, they pump when power is cheap, and drain when power is expensive and resell that back at a much inflated cost.

 

[Mark Baker]

From what I understand, they pump when power is cheap, and drain when power is expensive and resell that back at a much inflated cost.

that's what i heard as well

 

[Rajobigguy]

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't you expend at least the same amount of energy to pump the water from Elsinore up to the reservoir as you would produce by the water dropping back down through the turbine?

Yes it will cost a few more megawatts to operate than it can generate but the idea is that it will filling the reservoir during the evening while there isn't much demand for electricity then during the peak demand of the day it will be producing. It's a way of evening out the demand over a 24 hr. period.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Thats what it is now I think, other than the speed alley section in the middle, and thats closed on weekends.

I only tested on weekdays ran whatever I wanted. Wherever.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

This is cool. If they were to actually clean up that lake there could be a huge investment opportunity for lakeside properties.

I have always wanted this one

 

[Gelcoater]

This is cool. If they were to actually clean up that lake there could be a huge investment opportunity for lakeside properties.

I have always wanted this one

Vast potential there if the lake was worth visiting.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Vast potential there if the lake was worth visiting.

I have always loved this property. Such a cool location for a small hotel with docks and water front bar. It's a shame that Elsinore has turned into such a shit hole.

 

[Gelcoater]

Testing boats monthly at Lake Elsinore i've notice the State Launch "La Laguna" is undergoing a multi million dollar renovation. New ramp, parking lot the size of three football fields, new tackle shop, rental huts, rental air stream trailers, ect. Now why would they invest this kind of money with the lakes health deteriorating?
i did a little research and found leapshydro.com
They plan on building a reservoir in the Ortega mountains, pump water up to the reservior at night. Then let the water drain down into Lake Elsinore through turbines generating electricity. With this they will maintain the lakes level year around.
So i asked the guard shack lady if he knew about the project. She told me that the "high ups" have been busy with an upcoming lake project and preparing the State Park for it.
Its unclear to me if this project is actually going to happen.

Can anyone on here confirm?

View attachment 721554

from the site
Lake Elsinore Advanced Pumped Storage (LEAPS) project is a proposed 500 megawatt pumped-storage hydroelectricity power project located in Lake Elsinore, California. Combining time-tested large scale energy storage technology and the distinctive geography of Lake Elsinore, LEAPS will provide load balancing and power on-demand to the Southern California grid.

Where does the water come from?

 

[lantz]

It is possible to create more power in the Grid than can be used, and this isn't necessarily a good thing. Power with no where to go causes problems. Technically you can plaster the crap out of all available space with solar and over shoot power demands, but with this, you can can use the extra power generated during the day to pump water uphill. It evens out the grid. Then, at night when solar shuts down, you can release water from the upper reservoir to power the grid. It's essentially a storage battery. I'm pretty sure this is a crappy explanation of the process from something I read a while ago, but it is close. I do think that if it goes through, it will mean that Elsinore would have to be maintained at consistent levels which would mean that it would be a dependable boating location.

 

[nowski]

Hey Mark, welcome aboard...

 

[DWC]

It would be great if they cleaned up the water. It’s a shame to have a lake so close that’s basically unusable. My dad had a pizza place and hotel there in the 70’s. No Tel Motel. Good pizza and some cool shirts with the hear/see no evil monkeys

 

[manxman]

They have been doing it at Hodges in Escondido for several years. From what I was told, it runs at a surplus. There is a hidden reservoir in Olivenhain that its pumped to at night when the power is cheap, then they let it drain during the day to produce power.

 

[Taboma]

I have always loved this property. Such a cool location for a small hotel with docks and water front bar. It's a shame that Elsinore has turned into such a shit hole.

Is that the old Elsinore Military Academy my dad was always threatening to send me to ?
I was born in 1948, but my parents had boats before I came along. They always spoke of how I was almost hatched (Yes, I was always told I was hatched ) on a boat in Lake Elsinore.
I guess back in the day there was a ballroom and such, and the lake was quite the fun place to hang out. I recall when I was pretty young going up there with my dad and the lake was much much larger than today, water looked great and the dam was close to overflowing.
During high school my buddies and I would haul a boat up there after school and go water skiing. I was pretty spoiled from the beautiful water up at Lake Arrowhead, and imagine my surprise when I fell and discovered I could stand up and I was no where near the shore By then Elsinore was shallow and anything but clean water

 

[mobldj]

its a division of anderson pea soup in buellton. straight from the source green shit.lolol

 

[Taboma]

They have been doing it at Hodges in Escondido for several years. From what I was told, it runs at a surplus. There is a hidden reservoir in Olivenhain that its pumped to at night when the power is cheap, then they let it drain during the day to produce power.

Yup, 40 megawatt on-demand generating facility. This arrangement also allows Lake Hodges to become part of the SD Water Authority system for additional storage.

 

[Xring01]

Castiac,
Helms Canyon,

Google them

Great examples for pump storage..

Its an excellent renewable energy, with very little downsides.

I will add some more info on this topic later

 

[twocents]

Maybe I can add a little more background information to the Lake Elsinore discussion. Back in September 2015 I was brought on as a member of a consulting team for the City of Lake Elsinore by City Manager Grant Yates. The City was trying to determine the economic viability of spending upwards of $20 million on a total renovation of the La Laguna RV Park (the new launch ramp, docks and parking lot were already completed). Our conclusion was that the City was putting the cart before the horse if they moved forward with the renovation project for a new RV facility without first addressing the obvious problem of water quality and general lake management. This conclusion was 180 degrees opposed by various members of City management who were mesmerized by the idea of constructing a five-star RV Park at La Laguna. In a nutshell, they refuted the idea that anything was wrong with the lake. Needless to say, our work was done and the RV project has moved forward and the lake remains a mess.

 

[Flatsix66]

The LEAPS project has been proposed a few times in the last 20 years. It is backed by Nevada Hydro, a private firm that if constructed will literally print money from the revenue of selling energy for more $$$ then it costs to pump the lake up the hill. There is absolutely no reason for it other than to make a few investors and paid off politicians rich, all the positive things they say is a total scam. They have very strong lobbyists and I am sure they are busy bribing and paying off officials. Strange decisions being made in Lake Elsinore CC, I wonder why??? I own property near Decker Canyon were the dammed canyon to store the water is proposed, so the construction of this multi-year project will impact our access to our home and the high voltage power lines needed for the grid through the Cleveland National Forest pose a sever fire danger for our community, for those reasons I am opposed. More information here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1640975875966542

 

[Mark Baker]

Lake Elsinore health problems come from low water level, and lack of circulation/oxygen . This project would address both of those. You have 100x more risk from residential housing electricity pole lines than from high voltage towers. Having a revitalized lake would do big things for the city and home value.

The LEAPS project has been proposed a few times in the last 20 years. It is backed by Nevada Hydro, a private firm that if constructed will literally print money from the revenue of selling energy for more $$$ then it costs to pump the lake up the hill. There is absolutely no reason for it other than to make a few investors and paid off politicians rich, all the positive things they say is a total scam. They have very strong lobbyists and I am sure they are busy bribing and paying off officials. Strange decisions being made in Lake Elsinore CC, I wonder why??? I own property near Decker Canyon were the dammed canyon to store the water is proposed, so the construction of this multi-year project will impact our access to our home and the high voltage power lines needed for the grid through the Cleveland National Forest pose a sever fire danger for our community, for those reasons I am opposed. More information here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1640975875966542

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

From what I have heard this project is moving forward. The La Laguna RV park and renovation is only a small piece. They are planning (in conjunction with Disney) an entire downtown along with lake front condos, all done on the Lakeshore side of the lake.

 

[old rigger]

Is that the old Elsinore Military Academy my dad was always threatening to send me to ?
I was born in 1948, but my parents had boats before I came along. They always spoke of how I was almost hatched (Yes, I was always told I was hatched ) on a boat in Lake Elsinore.
I guess back in the day there was a ballroom and such, and the lake was quite the fun place to hang out. I recall when I was pretty young going up there with my dad and the lake was much much larger than today, water looked great and the dam was close to overflowing.
During high school my buddies and I would haul a boat up there after school and go water skiing. I was pretty spoiled from the beautiful water up at Lake Arrowhead, and imagine my surprise when I fell and discovered I could stand up and I was no where near the shore By then Elsinore was shallow and anything but clean water

That place looks a little like some of the buildings at the old Military Academy on Signal Hill in Long Beach that I was sent to. They tore it down in the 80's after 60 or so years in biz.

 

[RiverDave]

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't you expend at least the same amount of energy to pump the water from Elsinore up to the reservoir as you would produce by the water dropping back down through the turbine?

Plus losses! Lol.

Not sure I understand it as it was explained in the first post?

 

[SoCalDave]

Where does the water come from?

Lake Elsinore...

 

[Gelcoater]

Lake Elsinore...

The lake is already low.
How is pumping up a hill and let it tumble down going to increase the volume of the lake?
There needs to be more water input.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Is that the old Elsinore Military Academy my dad was always threatening to send me to ?
I was born in 1948, but my parents had boats before I came along. They always spoke of how I was almost hatched (Yes, I was always told I was hatched ) on a boat in Lake Elsinore.
I guess back in the day there was a ballroom and such, and the lake was quite the fun place to hang out. I recall when I was pretty young going up there with my dad and the lake was much much larger than today, water looked great and the dam was close to overflowing.
During high school my buddies and I would haul a boat up there after school and go water skiing. I was pretty spoiled from the beautiful water up at Lake Arrowhead, and imagine my surprise when I fell and discovered I could stand up and I was no where near the shore By then Elsinore was shallow and anything but clean water

Yup it's still there rotting away...

 

[Marine Industries West]

Good info, thanks for posting. Was there on Friday and it looks amazing compared to what it looked like 2 weeks prior. All that rain did wonders. Don't know how long it will last, but I haven't seen the lake that clean in years.

 

[rivermobster]

I have always loved this property. Such a cool location for a small hotel with docks and water front bar. It's a shame that Elsinore has turned into such a shit hole.

Turned into a shit hole?

I'm 61, and I remember it being a shit hole when my dad took me boating there as a kid!

Was it ever a nice lake? Was the water Ever clear?

Serious questions. Honest. Thanks.

 

[Willie B]

Testing boats monthly at Lake Elsinore i've notice the State Launch "La Laguna" is undergoing a multi million dollar renovation. New ramp, parking lot the size of three football fields, new tackle shop, rental huts, rental air stream trailers, ect. Now why would they invest this kind of money with the lakes health deteriorating?
i did a little research and found leapshydro.com
They plan on building a reservoir in the Ortega mountains, pump water up to the reservior at night. Then let the water drain down into Lake Elsinore through turbines generating electricity. With this they will maintain the lakes level year around.
So i asked the guard shack lady if he knew about the project. She told me that the "high ups" have been busy with an upcoming lake project and preparing the State Park for it.
Its unclear to me if this project is actually going to happen.

Can anyone on here confirm?

View attachment 721554

from the site
Lake Elsinore Advanced Pumped Storage (LEAPS) project is a proposed 500 megawatt pumped-storage hydroelectricity power project located in Lake Elsinore, California. Combining time-tested large scale energy storage technology and the distinctive geography of Lake Elsinore, LEAPS will provide load balancing and power on-demand to the Southern California grid.

...This is what they should’ve done at Pine Flat... instead they just created a generating plant at the dam... so the water goes out and none goes back in... ...therefore the lake gets low and is usable for only a small percentage of the time that it was...before the hydro electric plant...

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Turned into a shit hole?

I'm 61, and I remember it being a shit hole when my dad took me boating there as a kid!

Was it ever a nice lake? Was the water Ever clear?

Serious questions. Honest. Thanks.

If it was it was before my time lol.

 

[Taboma]

Turned into a shit hole?

I'm 61, and I remember it being a shit hole when my dad took me boating there as a kid!

Was it ever a nice lake? Was the water Ever clear?

Serious questions. Honest. Thanks.

I just recall my folks boating there and going to dances at the fancy Clubhouse that had a pier. This was early to late 40's and folks were swimming in it. But it had gone dry in the 30's, refilling late 30's, so perhaps the water wasn't as stagnant ?? I know it went dry again during the 50's, and I was skiing on by 64-65ish after school. Clarity was largely depended on the season and algae blooms etc.

 

[CoolCruzin]

What they should do is dig that pond deeper .

 

[old rigger]

Use to test boats there at Advantage and a little later Warlock. Had a 25 Advantage there once in the middle of summer and all the fish in the lake had died. They were piled up on the launch ramp. It was like being in a horror film, the flies were so thick the air looked black around that pile which was the biggest pile of fucking fish you can imagine. The water was so black that when we changed props you couldn't see the prop nut with the lower unit up all the way. Had to get my buddy to stand on the bow to raise it up a little.

 

[t&y]

It makes sense that pumping that water up then sending it back down through turbines would oxygenate the water and take care of the circulation problem at the same time. Not sure how long it would take to pay off the cost of the construction, but selling the power back during the middle of the day would generate more revenue than it takes to pump it up in the middle of the night. Intersting idea as long as the lake has enough water to sustain the operation.

 

[t&y]

Good info, thanks for posting. Was there on Friday and it looks amazing compared to what it looked like 2 weeks prior. All that rain did wonders. Don't know how long it will last, but I haven't seen the lake that clean in years.

How much did the water level raise? Any pics?

 

[Ouderkirk]

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't you expend at least the same amount of energy to pump the water from Elsinore up to the reservoir as you would produce by the water dropping back down through the turbine?

Actually there would be a net loss due to inefficiency in the pumps (no pump is 100%), losses to friction and heat in the generating and pumping equipment.

I fail to see how they are going to keep this system functioning unless there is sufficient make-up water built into the design to account for those losses.

 

[riverroyal]

How is it filled now you ask? Water make up?
Theres a water treatment plant on the east side. It converts sewage to 'treated' water. This pumps into the lake. It has been for about 10 years now. I cant remember the gallons per day but its a bunch. It can be throttled up or down as needed. If you lost track over the last decade you may not have noticed that there is no longer a huge lake level swing from year to year. It used to get real low until we had big rain years.

Theres no in or out to elsinore. Thats why the water died. The treated water has actually helped the lake.

The treatment plant was built without any big press.

 

[riverroyal]

To add to that...wheres the extra water coming from when we have a shortage? Thanks the residents for flushing. More and more every month

 

[Marine Industries West]

How much did the water level raise? Any pics?

It was hard to compare, 3 weeks ago I went to Marina West. The channel to get out of the marina was pretty narrow, but I've seen the water lower in the past. At least the docks were floating. On my trip last Friday, I launched from the new place in anticipation of seeing the disgust that we saw just a couple weeks prior, but to my shock, it was pretty nice. There was a team down there doing water testing and taking samples. The water level on last Friday seemed nice going out of that new launch ramp.