It was a good run at the RV park in UT

[Vib]

All good things come to an end eventually. Our oldest daughter moved back to Fort Collins, CO and is getting married this year. She has let us know that as soon as she is married our first grandchild will likely be coming within the year. My wife then made it clear that we will be living near our new grandchild. So I guess I have about 1.5 yrs tops.

This is the just the start of our third season at the RV park, business is running smoothly, up about 100% over last year and still some room to go. We just completed the little barndo on site for us to live in a few months ago, the entire area just kinda got 'discovered' about 9 months ago as one of the last uncrowded places in Southern UT and everything is just going crazy in value and local businesses are loving it (including us).

But life changes, gotta be near the family, so we just listed the place for sale a day ago. After all the crazy hard work building it and refining the policies and practices to make it run smooth, we will have to leave right as everything is perfect and it's finally starting to make some decent money

 

[DUNEFLYER]

Looks like a great place. For sale listing info?

 

[BabyRay]

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/8500-24-Sr-Caineville-UT/31752040/

Looks like it may be an opportunity for the right person. At a cap rate of 6%, they’d definitely need to expand.

 

[Vib]

Crexi.com

Photos, maps, description for commercial real estate

www.crexi.com

The rv park hasn't stabilized yet. Full maturity won't likely be for another 1-2 yrs.

And it really could use some expansion now. Cabins and more rv sites.

 

[mjc]

Crexi.com

Photos, maps, description for commercial real estate

www.crexi.com

The rv park hasn't stabilized yet. Full maturity won't likely be for another 1-2 yrs.

And it really could use some expansion now. Cabins and more rv sites.

Could you keep it and pay someone to run it for you?

 

[Done-it-again]

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/8500-24-Sr-Caineville-UT/31752040/

Looks like it may be an opportunity for the right person. At a cap rate of 6%, they’d definitely need to expand.

for the uneducated... What does the cap rate of 6% mean?

 

[rivermobster]

Could you keep it and pay someone to run it for you?

This!!!

Like some retired guy??

 

[dread Pirate]

This!!!

Like some retired guy??

So you're leaving California?

 

[Kachina26]

Funny this popped up. I just clicked your sig earlier today to see if this would make a good overnight for my trip to Texas. Sadly, just a little too far of a side trip.

 

[Vib]

for the uneducated... What does the cap rate of 6% mean?

Means that the capitalization rate of return if you were to purchase the property all cash would be 6%.

I.e. on a 2.5m cash purchase, you would earn $150k net income per year.

Obviously a leveraged return, getting a bank loan, would be greater.

 

[Vib]

Could you keep it and pay someone to run it for you?

We're thinking about it, but it's my baby, and I don't know that anyone would ever offer the same level of service and take care of the property the way we do.

 

[NicPaus]

for the uneducated... What does the cap rate of 6% mean?

I tried to figure out cap rate recently. My commercial broker friend said to just make sure the numbers work for me. It's damn confusing.

It's basically the percentage of a return you get on your investment. But when I changed the years of loan it changed and made me more confused.

 

[Vib]

I tried to figure out cap rate recently. My commercial broker friend said to just make sure the numbers work for me. It's damn confusing.

It's basically the percentage of a return you get on your investment. But when I changed the years of loan it changed and made me more confused.

Because the interest expense per year changed with the different amortization period thus your net income changed.

 

[Done-it-again]

Means that the capitalization rate of return if you were to purchase the property all cash would be 6%.

I.e. on a 2.5m cash purchase, you would earn $150k net income per year.

Obviously a leveraged return, getting a bank loan, would be greater.

Thank you..... The commercial side of real-estate is a bit confusing

 

[RaceTec]

I would love to buy something like this! GLWS!

 

[mjc]

I am going to need to get out there before you leave then.

 

[rivermobster]

So you're leaving California?

Aren't we all, eventually?

 

[caribbean20]

I followed your story as you built the park. Congratulations on the success and good luck on the next chapter. Ft. Collins will be a nice place to land. Welcome to CO.

 

[Vib]

I followed your story as you built the park. Congratulations on the success and good luck on the next chapter. Ft. Collins will be a nice place to land. Welcome to CO.

Thanks. I went to school at Colorado state in Fort Collins and spent 30 yrs in the metro Denver area raizing a family and building companies.

We left due to Covid shutdowns for the freedom and sanity of UT. Still own a commercial real estate brokerage in CO and the brokers want me back in person as well so that is also a factor.

Hate to leave this place in UT though. It is so peaceful and now it's doing very well financially.

 

[riverroyal]

someone loan me 2.5 mil?

 

[evantwheeler]

someone loan me 2.5 mil?

All we need is 100 members at $25k. I can see it now - RDP RV UT LLC.

When you calculated Cap Rate, how did you calculate the operating costs in regards to your management, planning, and sweat equity, were you taking any money for the efforts? That maybe too personal of a question, and I'm not a buyer or investor, just a curious person. I'm assuming if you hired a dedicated manager as a passive investment group or individual, the cap rate would be less due to those costs that were not incurred as actual recorded or documented costs as an owner/operator/developer? There is an opportunity cost as an individual deciding on what to put your time into, but that isn't part of the operating costs of the property.

People that have the capital and balls to develop land seriously impress me. A good friends dad developed a small industrial park back home, and he was $1million over his original estimate on the development thanks to the county requiring him to put in a turn lane off the small highway and storm water retention pond that he did not have included in his numbers when he started the venture. You can really get fucked in the permitting/design process.

 

[ChumpChange]

for the uneducated... What does the cap rate of 6% mean?

Net operating income divided by sales price will give you your return on investment ie cap rate.

$150,000 / $2,500,0000 = 6.0%

Or as the OP posted, he use the sales price and the cap rate to find out what the NOI should be.

I would say that cap rates are generally utilized for investment properties where third party leases are in place, which is why your agent said don’t worry about it and if it works for you then it works for you. Different situation.

Since this would technically be an owner occupied property needing to be operated for that $150,000 profit, it would be valued as a going concern which means the business running on the property will need to be run by the purchaser for that CAP and not necessarily paying an employee as that increases expenses and income would be lower.

Definitely an awesome opportunity.

Is the leveraged return you are quoting higher because that would give the purchaser the opportunity for immediate expansion? With bank rates higher than the cap, you’re technically paying your bank more than your rate of return. Unfortunately that’s just this economy though.

 

[Vib]

Net operating income divided by sales price will give you your return on investment ie cap rate.

$150,000 / $2,500,0000 = 6.0%

Or as the OP posted, he use the sales price and the cap rate to find out what the NOI should be.

I would say that cap rates are generally utilized for investment properties where third party leases are in place, which is why your agent said don’t worry about it and if it works for you then it works for you. Different situation.

Since this would technically be an owner occupied property needing to be operated for that $150,000 profit, it would be valued as a going concern which means the business running on the property will need to be run by the purchaser for that CAP and not necessarily paying an employee as that increases expenses and income would be lower.

Definitely an awesome opportunity.

Is the leveraged return you are quoting higher because that would give the purchaser the opportunity for immediate expansion? With bank rates higher than the cap, you’re technically paying your bank more than your rate of return. Unfortunately that’s just this economy though.

Exactly correct on the expansion and bank rate. We can carry 10% whi h would help with sba loan. Bit it would need to be done on the pro forma numbers to make sense since sba interst rates are high right now.

The real money here is in the growth of the area and in expanding this place to meet the already existing need.

I figure it's a 3x in 5 yrs easy with the expansion.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Good luck with the sale. You guys have done a great job on building it up.

 

[RaceTec]

Did you sell? Thinking about going that direction in a couple of weeks towards the end of our trip.

 

[941Punk]

After living by my kids for 10 years of grandchildren, don't. You'll be turned into unpaid babysitting. UT to CO is close enough to go see them. I love the little boogers, but we have our own life to live.

 

[Andy B.]

Still forsale?

 

[Vib]

Did you sell? Thinking about going that direction in a couple of weeks towards the end of our trip.

U/C expected to close after this season. New owners have great plans to increase amenities and take it to the next level.

I won't miss the 100 hr weeks, but we will miss a lot of the amazing people we have met and new friends around the country. We have more invites to visit than we can ever accept.

It has been an amazing experience.

 

[outboard_256]

After living by my kids for 10 years of grandchildren, don't. You'll be turned into unpaid babysitting. UT to CO is close enough to go see them. I love the little boogers, but we have our own life to live.

I am on the other side of the coin. Mother-in-law sold everything moved here to be closer to her grandkids. Total nightmare to deal with. Was much better seeing her once or twice a year for holidays. Unless your kids are asking you to sell everything and move closer you might want to have a conversation with them so everyone is on the same page. Being new parents is overwhelming and having a bunch of people telling you this is how we did it 30 years ago doesn't help.

 

[gqchris]

I am on the other side of the coin. Mother-in-law sold everything moved here to be closer to her grandkids. Total nightmare to deal with. Was much better seeing her once or twice a year for holidays. Unless your kids are asking you to sell everything and move closer you might want to have a conversation with them so everyone is on the same page. Being new parents is overwhelming and having a bunch of people telling you this is how we did it 30 years ago doesn't help.

My Dad and his wife just did this, and even as his son, I get what you are saying! Im totally cool with it and am trying to make up for "missed time" , but my wife is not on same page at times.

Just tonight, we are supposed to go over for "supper". Wife is already pitching a fit. Saying I planned things without her knowing blah blah blah. But I can see where she comes from, even though I told her about this last week!

At my Dads house, things are much slower. My wife cant just grasp the concept of sitting and talking. I love it, but im old and lazy. lol

 

[pronstar]

Fort Collins is booming for sure. We work remote, and my colleague just moved there from Dallas. His family is from there, they just had their second kid and want to be near family.

Bought a beautiful new $1.5M home, super low property taxes.

With a United hub at DEN, it’s a great location if you can work remote but need to travel.

 

[sintax]

After living by my kids for 10 years of grandchildren, don't. You'll be turned into unpaid babysitting. UT to CO is close enough to go see them. I love the little boogers, but we have our own life to live.

You're not incorrect there.

My mom turned into childcare / cleaning lady for my sister!

 

[NicPaus]

My Mom and my Sisters MILs fight to watch the grandkids. He'll I went and changed my Sisters garbage disposal at 9pm last night so I could see them. They helped me do it and earned themselves another dirtbike.

 

[gqchris]

After living by my kids for 10 years of grandchildren, don't. You'll be turned into unpaid babysitting. UT to CO is close enough to go see them. I love the little boogers, but we have our own life to live.

My Dads way too old now to help babysit and all that, but I do like the fact that he is closer by if he needs MY help. Or, If I suddenly die, he can at least guide my Wife and girls on next steps.

I have friends though that have literally taken advantage of their parents and used them as extended babysitters. Vegas, Miami every weekend partying. Kids never get to see their parents. I brought it up to my boy, but he seems blinded to it. No wonder the kids are acting out now as they get older and need therapy.

 

[coolchange]

My Mom and my Sisters MILs fight to watch the grandkids. He'll I went and changed my Sisters garbage disposal at 9pm last night so I could see them. They helped me do it and earned themselves another dirtbike.

Shoot, can I help next time?

 

[Vib]

Everyone is on the same page thankfully. My wife will do some childcare, the have to watch our cats occasionally when we travel.

Were very lucky to have an awesome relationship with our daughter and soon to be (one week) son in law.

 

[angiebaby]

After living by my kids for 10 years of grandchildren, don't. You'll be turned into unpaid babysitting. UT to CO is close enough to go see them. I love the little boogers, but we have our own life to live.

Your experience is not the same as everyone’s. It sounds like you failed to set some boundaries. Having missed out on so much time with my maternal grandmother who lived several states away and we were all poor, I would never tell someone not to move near their grandchildren. I feel like I missed out. I only got to see her once every couple of years. I’m still sad about it. She was wonderful.

 

[NicPaus]

I lived with my Grandparents when my parents went through a divorce. In there cabover camper in the yard. They stepped up to the plate big time and dealt with me as a teenager. Grandma spent 22 years living at my Moms in her old age and I dropped whatever I was doing to help her when needed. 90+ years old She would fall and be laid out on the ground frazzled with my Mom unable to lift her. I could wake up and get there in 4 minutes if I had to run the red light at Sepulveda. As soon as she heard my voice She relaxed and I could get her up and back to bed. Usually happened between 11-midnight when she had to pee.

She lived a extra 10 years due to my Moms nursing abilities and the constant flow of great grandkids around her. She had a baby on her lap constantly.

Take care of the grandkids and hopefully they take care of you.

 

[whiteworks]

Running this scenario through my mind from different perspectives.

Let’s say I had a $2.5M 1031 exchange deal that needed to go down, it’s basically buying your self a job as this isn’t a passive income deal, it’s a lifestyle deal, that could work for the right guy.

However I think the more appealing direction is to find the right 40 year old dude who’s a hard worker and tired of the grind, put him in place with a millstone vesting agreement to become a partner based on certain metrics being met. This gives the guy some real give a shit about success and expansion, and gives you a solid employee and potential partner to do the future heavy lifting and see through what you’ve put together. I’d hate to walk from a project like this that you obviously have put your heart and soul into.

At some point down the road it will be an amazing passive income deal to own. But trading $2.5M now for $150k a year and endless daily chores is gonna be a tough sell IMO.

 

[Ziggy]

I only met one of my grandparents. My moms mom. My mode of travel was still hands and knees so I literally have zero recollection. Godparents and family friends filled that void to some degree. I believe that was somewhat a normal situation for children of european imigrants fleeing fear of war.
My kids both had close relationships with my parents in their younger years but my son kept it strong until their passing. My daughter not so much externally but still loved them.
I would never suggest someone not be close or available to their grandkids but I also think certain boundries mustn't be crossed by both grandparents & the grandkids parents.....like don't show up unannounced, tell them how to do it(unless asked) or let them abuse your kindness.

 

[pronstar]

I never knew my grandparents. So it was an awesome opportunity for us to convert our garage into an ADU so my kids can see their grandparents / my in-laws literally every day.

Problem is, they aren’t with the “free babysitter” program but that’s what the live-in au pair is for

 

[Vib]

Running this scenario through my mind from different perspectives.

Let’s say I had a $2.5M 1031 exchange deal that needed to go down, it’s basically buying your self a job as this isn’t a passive income deal, it’s a lifestyle deal, that could work for the right guy.

However I think the more appealing direction is to find the right 40 year old dude who’s a hard worker and tired of the grind, put him in place with a millstone vesting agreement to become a partner based on certain metrics being met. This gives the guy some real give a shit about success and expansion, and gives you a solid employee and potential partner to do the future heavy lifting and see through what you’ve put together. I’d hate to walk from a project like this that you obviously have put your heart and soul into.

At some point down the road it will be an amazing passive income deal to own. But trading $2.5M now for $150k a year and endless daily chores is gonna be a tough sell IMO.

Actually it's a bigger company that valued the land, location, and ground work underground that we built. They are putting in $4m of improvements to start and making it a higher end destination. They're going to kill it. Cabins are the way to go, rv'rs are not worth the headache.

Guests want the pool, clubhouse, playground, cabins, gated entry, etc and will be paying 350 -500 night for it.

Same location and views, but the $50 per night for an rv stay is gone.

 

[whiteworks]

Actually it's a bigger company that valued the land, location, and ground work underground that we built. They are putting in $4m of improvements to start and making it a higher end destination. They're going to kill it. Cabins are the way to go, rv'rs are not worth the headache.

Guests want the pool, clubhouse, playground, cabins, gated entry, etc and will be paying 350 -500 night for it.

Same location and views, but the $50 per night for an rv stay is gone.

Oh my bad, didn’t realize it had sold. Sounds like a nice exit for you

 

[stoker]

All we need is 100 members at $25k. I can see it now - RDP RV UT LLC.

When you calculated Cap Rate, how did you calculate the operating costs in regards to your management, planning, and sweat equity, were you taking any money for the efforts? That maybe too personal of a question, and I'm not a buyer or investor, just a curious person. I'm assuming if you hired a dedicated manager as a passive investment group or individual, the cap rate would be less due to those costs that were not incurred as actual recorded or documented costs as an owner/operator/developer? There is an opportunity cost as an individual deciding on what to put your time into, but that isn't part of the operating costs of the property.

People that have the capital and balls to develop land seriously impress me. A good friends dad developed a small industrial park back home, and he was $1million over his original estimate on the development thanks to the county requiring him to put in a turn lane off the small highway and storm water retention pond that he did not have included in his numbers when he started the venture. You can really get fucked in the permitting/design process.

One business partner is one to many, yet alone a hundred

 

[Vib]

Every day I run this place I sympathize with what Dave has to deal with here, lol

 

[evantwheeler]

However I think the more appealing direction is to find the right 40 year old dude who’s a hard worker and tired of the grind, put him in place with a millstone vesting agreement to become a partner based on certain metrics being met.

Where do I sign?

 

[whiteworks]

Every day I run this place I sympathize with what Dave has to deal with here, lol

That’s why he drinks

 

[sintax]

Actually it's a bigger company that valued the land, location, and ground work underground that we built. They are putting in $4m of improvements to start and making it a higher end destination. They're going to kill it. Cabins are the way to go, rv'rs are not worth the headache.

Guests want the pool, clubhouse, playground, cabins, gated entry, etc and will be paying 350 -500 night for it.

Same location and views, but the $50 per night for an rv stay is gone.

I totally suppose its up to the guests.

Having a pool, clubhouse, cabins and a playground would 100% disqualify it in my books, but I it looks perfect now from what I can tell

 

[angiebaby]

That’s why he drinks

He drank just as much before this place was created. At least he’s consistent.

 

[RiverDave]

Every day I run this place I sympathize with what Dave has to deal with here, lol

He drank just as much before this place was created. At least he’s consistent.

Yeah but I've always dealt with this BS... LOL. even before rdp

RD