HVAC, what units don’t suck?

[Jonas Grumby]

every time I see a post for hvac help, it seems the unit in question sucks, so whatone don’t?
Trane,proprietary parts
American Standard, same
Lennox, same
Goodman, peps say this is the cheapy in track homes.

 

[RitcheyRch]

@Riverbound to the white courtesy phone

 

[Mandelon]

My tech puts a lot of Goodman units in. Obviously not the best, but possibly the best value.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Goodman's keep running at our river house, but i'm told they are junk units. I cross my fingers every year lol

 

[CSmith]

I'm no HVAC expert by any means. With that said a lot or very little goes into correctly setting up the unit from the get go. Correct duct sizes both supply and return, when the unit was installed depending on the temp outside could affect the refrigerant charge to really dial the unit in. I have heard people say bad things about lots of different brands but even a not so good brand could be set up and run very efficiently for a long time. Great temperature split, quiet inside the house with no howling from the return when the unit is running. Sometimes very poor installs lead to premature failures no matter what the brand. Just my .02. Maybe others with more experience can share there ideas as well.

 

[slowinhavasu]

Living in one of the hottest places in the nation, I know what we work on the most and the least. We repair/replace Goodman products the most! My understanding is there new product lines are much better then the older lines.Time will tell! American Standard/ Trane has had the least failures. Coming up on my 38th year in the trade, I have had the best luck with the American Standard/Trane line. This is just my experience. I could use anybodies equipment, but I will stick with what I know is dependable!

 

[lbhsbz]

Everything is junk unless you just bought it from the guy who told you your old one was junk.

 

[185EZ]

Replaced my Goodman years ago when I got an energy rebate.
Only replaced a condensor fan in 10 years.
The new Carrier system failed 3 times in the first year in the middle of summer and we stayed at our neighbor's home with a Goodman unit and It's now 20 years old and still running as most of the goodman units in our subdivision.
The new system barely saved me any money on the monthly bill compared to my out of pocket expense for a new system
I told Carrier to reinstall my Goodman. It's a bit noisier but more reliable.

 

[NicPaus]

Just got asked this question earlier . My reply was similar to CSmith reply. Just had a Payne system installed and had his quoted with Payne as well. What the HVAC guy uses unless I specify something else.

 

[DirtyWhiteDog]

I would think, more goodman repair and replacement is because of the number of units installed. Except for a condenser or 3 mine has been trouble free for 10 years. Self installed entire system, except freon.

 

[Wayn-o]

Rheem or Ruud is one of my go to for residential. Always works, very simple machines, easiest thing to service.
I just installed a Bosch condenser with VFD compressor on my house. Great efficiency and quiet as can be.

 

[TCHB]

I am staying with Trane.

 

[checkrd past]

putting in a complete system from Daikin. I know, Daikin? Did research and went with it

 

[lbhsbz]

I called my old boss (HVAC contractor) when I bought my first house in 2008...told him what I needed...FAU, coil, condensor unit. He got me some no-name condensor that the supply house offered him for $300 because it was a couple years obsolete on the SEER rating and it had been sitting there for a while...I didn't GAF. Guess what...still works badass. The FAU was also brand new but he pulled it back out when the house sold because the buyer wanted a "better" unit...so he gave it to me. Coil was $700, lineset was a few hundred. If I ever have in inspected, it'll probably be a POS that can only be fixed with $15K worth of equipment and $4K worth of labor.

 

[ElAzul]

putting in a complete system from Daikin. I know, Daikin? Did research and went with it

I have one of their mini splits in my rental for a few years it's been problem free so far. Only annoying thing is the remote sucks and slow changing modes

 

[Riverbound]

every time I see a post for hvac help, it seems the unit in question sucks, so whatone don’t?
Trane,proprietary parts
American Standard, same
Lennox, same
Goodman, peps say this is the cheapy in track homes.

Who puts it in and how they put it in weighs far more on the “quality” of a system than the sticker on the box.

anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you.
There are different levels of equipment, but brand doesn’t play a factor.

 

[overdue]

Who puts it in and how they put it in weighs far more on the “quality” of a system than the sticker on the box.

how do you like the new Ultra low NOx ?

 

[riverroyal]

Daikin is huge in the commercial world. They are good.

 

[Riverbound]

how do you like the new Ultra low NOx ?

no issues really. We have been messing with them for a while now. The installers who cut corners and don’t do proper start up. Or don’t make sure airflow, sizing etc are correct are having a rough time.
The new furnaces are not forgiving like the old stuff, so you better be in your game.

 

[riverroyal]

Mine at home is 16 years old, 10 seer tract house grade. NEVER been charged, coils never cleaned. Runs perfect
I installed it

 

[Riverbound]

Daikin is huge in the commercial world. They are good.

I do tons of daikin. (Goodman) have been very happy with their commercial and mini split products.

 

[Riverbound]

Mine at home is 16 years old, 10 seer tract house grade. NEVER been charged, coils never cleaned. Runs perfect
I installed it

runs “perfect”

 

[overdue]

no issues really. We have been messing with them for a while now. The installers who cut corners and don’t do proper start up. Or don’t make sure airflow, sizing etc are correct are having a rough time.
The new furnaces are not forgiving like the old stuff, so you better be in your game.

the start up is huge, most of our problems are with lennox ,

 

[riverroyal]

runs “perfect”

Yeap. Perfect. Comes on everytime. 20 degree ish delta.
I did replace the capacitor a few years ago.
Unfortunately new 5 ton units cost about $8000? Mine was like 700, still going at 16 years.

 

[Riverbound]

Yeap. Perfect. Comes on everytime. 20 degree ish delta.
I did replace the capacitor a few years ago.
Unfortunately new 5 ton units cost about $8000? Mine was like 700, still going at 16 years.

not to get too far into it, But “perfect” and turns on and blows cold air are two different things.

There’s considerably more than a 20-ish degree delta to make a system run perfect. But what do I know ?

 

[Riverbound]

the start up is huge, most of our problems are with lennox ,

Interesting.....we have seen exactly the opposite. Currently we are only offering Lennox due to them being the most reliable and most tested ULN product (this has been our findings). We have been testing all the other offerings, but have not found any other than Lennox that we are confident installing in our customer’s homes yet.

Keep in mind EVERY system we install is 10 year parts and labor so the last thing we want to do is install unreliable equipment or something we have to deal with down the road.

 

[riverroyal]

Let me rephrase.....my 16 year old shit brand tract house unit has been perfect for me.
I dont care the energy use, i dont care if its loud.
My 16 year furnace has been perfect as well.
They will die, probably soon. I wont be able get parts or refrigerant. I will get new stuff at that time, at cost and have one of my guys throw it in and im sure complain about the absurd prices now.
To me its perfect

 

[riverroyal]

Lennox is a good option. It would be on the top of my list when its time

 

[SoCalDave]

Replaced a 20 year old carrier system with Goodman products about 4 years ago and have had no issues other than the condenser is a bit loud...self installed as well.
Was doing a job with my nephew in LB a couple of years ago and the area had really close property lines. Anyway the house we were working on the driveway went between the houses. The neighbors condensers was right next to their house and was super quite. Almost couldn't even here it run. It was a Mitsubishi.

 

[overdue]

Interesting.....we have seen exactly the opposite. Currently we are only offering Lennox due to them being the most reliable and most tested ULN product (this has been our findings). We have been testing all the other offerings, but have not found any other than Lennox that we are confident installing in our customer’s homes yet.

Keep in mind EVERY system we install is 10 year parts and labor so the last thing we want to do is install unreliable equipment or something we have to deal with down the road.

as of right now we are still changing / up grading over 100 ULN kits in last years FAUs.

 

[Riverbound]

as of right now we are still changing / up grading over 100 ULN kits in last years FAUs.

yah the early uln stuff was a nightmare.

 

[overdue]

yah the early uln stuff was a nightmare.

ohhhhh yesssssss .
but like every new product you have to find the sweet spot

 

[Bowtiepower00]

American standard here, paid just over 4K for my rooftop unit. Trane was another grand even with the homie hookup. No issues 2 years in *knock on wood*

 

[wettrthebettr]

I use a wood stove, it has never failed in the 38 years I have used it.
As for Air Condition there is Snow on the ground, and in the summer No Air condition needed, it's a Cinder Block house under 100ft tall trees.

 

[NicPaus]

Replaced a 20 year old carrier system with Goodman products about 4 years ago and have had no issues other than the condenser is a bit loud...self installed as well.
Was doing a job with my nephew in LB a couple of years ago and the are had really close property lines. Anyway the house we were working on the driveway went between the houses. The neighbors condensers was right next to their house and was super quite. Almost couldn't even here it run. It was a Mitsubishi.

Where did you buy the Goodman unit? The Goodman store is right by my house next to Hirsch pipe. They will only sell me registers (for when we paint interior of house) and few couplings once unless I put it on my HVAC guys account. They will not sell to A GC even if you are buying hundreds of units for a development. Make me drive to long beach where there is 3 options right by each other.

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

Don't they all suck and blow?

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I put a 4 ton Airtemp (Nordyne) heat pump and evap coil in my house about 2 years ago (already had a 90% furnace on propane). It was a scratch and dent from the local supply house. Got all the equipment and lineset for less than $1600. It was a little loud but that's easy to fix, just never got around to it (change the fan blade to a swept style blade that reduces buffeting and install a compressor sound blanket). Our PG&E bill went up a total of $30 over the old swamper that was installed before.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

 

[SoCalDave]

Where did you buy the Goodman unit? The Goodman store is right by my house next to Hirsch pipe. They will only sell me registers (for when we paint interior of house) and few couplings once unless I put it on my HVAC guys account. They will not sell to A GC even if you are buying hundreds of units for a development. Make me drive to long beach where there is 3 options right by each other.

Online at acwholesales.com out of Florida.

 

[jet496]

Rheem and Carrier are reliable. Most of them use the same parts but Rheems have a solid cabinet & easy to work on. Carrier are built a little less sturdy but I like them. Very simple units.

 

[wettrthebettr]

Hey guys i Forgot this was a Desert Question, I live up by Lake Tahoe, No air condition needed here.
Carrier 5 ton unit was used in a house I lived in down in the Flat lands, it worked great, with no Problems, very Reliable.
Carrier HVAC can be found on ebay, You do not need A HVAC contractors License to buy it on ebay, But if you want a factory Warranty you will need someone with the HVAC contractors License number.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ICP-CARRIE...488846&hash=item3f9ab5e2a6:g:DPYAAOSwFeNa4Lif

 

[Dalton]

I do tons of daikin. (Goodman) have been very happy with their commercial and mini split products.

what do you think about Bosch?

 

[Riverbound]

what do you think about Bosch?

I personally have no experience with it. But have heard decent things. One thing to keep in mind is pretty much all heating and air is the same. Everyone pretty much uses the same compressors, motors and control boards. They just package it differently. Think of it as a Chevy suburban, GMC Yukon, or Cadillac Escalade. They are essentially the same thing when you break them down. But you have different levels of quality, different features, etc.

The Escalade is the nicest, quietest, best finish, etc. but it’s Essentially the same truck as the cheaper suburban.

 

[Riverbound]

Here’s a way to look at HVAC that most here will understand.

let’s say you have a bare hull dcb and a MERC 1350 motor and drive package.
You take the package to some no name shop who’s never rigged one before. Said shop puts the boat together and yes it runs but x dimension is off a bit, maybe the prop is installed but it’s not the ideal one, and there’s a few other setup issues. Does the boat work? Yes. Does the boat run and drive and go down the lake? Yes. But if you took the same package to DCB, or some premier shop who knows what they are doing , and sets up the boat from the get go. You will have a better performing boat, Bette ride, more efficient operation, etc. out of the exact same set up.

AC is no different. Most systems are thrown together and “work” but could be so much better. Event though it’s the same “boxes” being installed. How they are installed is the biggest factor in getting just a running system, a “good”, a “great” system or a “perfect” system.

I always tell people. I can put in my “basic” package and it will out perform most “premium” system due to the installation methods we utilize. As you go up in products the only real difference is you get more efficient and more quiet at each increase in level. the basic function of the system is exactly the same.

 

[SixD9R]

I have a Rheem system that was installed in 1998 and never did anything to the system except clean the leaves out of the condenser. Here in Pa it only works hard for 3 months per year. Every summer I say a prayer for it to not shit the bed.
My Rheem oil furnace (2 years older) has been decent as well but I did have to replace some relays on it. I clean that regularly but also have a wood stove.

 

[Riverbound]

I have a Rheem system that was installed in 1998 and never did anything to the system except clean the leaves out of the condenser. Here in Pa it only works hard for 3 months per year. Every summer I say a prayer for it to not shit the bed.
My Rheem oil furnace (2 years older) has been decent as well but I did have to replace some relays on it. I clean that regularly but also have a wood stove.

do you go out to your car every day and say a prayer it will start? Lol.

AC is a piece of machinery and does require maintenance. why not perform basic maintenance and have a mechanic look at it and you won’t have to pray anymore?

 

[cakemoto]

If you’re looking at getting a new unit i suggest you do it soon as prices are gonna be going up first of the year.

 

[Riverbound]

If you’re looking at getting a new unit i suggest you do it soon as prices are gonna be going up first of the year.

this happens every year around the first of the year. There’s always some thing that happens to cause price increases on equipment. I have never seen a price reduction from a manufacturer. It’s like dealing with the .gov a tax never goes away once they get it.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

So setup is the key. And I hear outside temp effect setup. So when is it best to setup a system in havasu, now when it’s cool, or summer? I am going to change out my working 18 year old Trane 3.5 ton unit that is working fine, it’s a bit loud and makes a funny noise at shutoff. But I’m guessing it’s on it’s last leg due to age, and I don’t want to do a emergency system in the middle of August and have to pay the piper to,”get r done now”.
I have gotten quote from $6500 for a Goodman, to $10000 for a dual speed Trane. I don’t know what to do.

My neighbor got the top of the line dual speed American Standard,”Trane”. 4 ton unit in his 1600 sqft house. He is gone all the time. Leaves the house at 84*. I check on his house on the regular, last sept I go in there after the new unit is installed, and kick it down to 70*, wanted to see how well it works, after 3 hours it only dropped 2*. So not impressed. Maybe setup?

 

[Riverbound]

So setup is the key. And I hear outside temp effect setup. So when is it best to setup a system in havasu, now when it’s cool, or summer? I am going to change out my working 18 year old Trane 3.5 ton unit that is working fine, it’s a bit loud and makes a funny noise at shutoff. But I’m guessing it’s on it’s last leg due to age, and I don’t want to do a emergency system in the middle of August and have to pay the piper to,”get r done now”.
I have gotten quote from $6500 for a Goodman, to $10000 for a dual speed Trane. I don’t know what to do.

My neighbor got the top of the line dual speed American Standard,”Trane”. 4 ton unit in his 1600 sqft house. He is gone all the time. Leaves the house at 84*. I check on his house on the regular, last sept I go in there after the new unit is installed, and kick it down to 70*, wanted to see how well it works, after 3 hours it only dropped 2*. So not impressed. Maybe setup?

yes installation,ducting and set up are key.

how quickly it cools the house is part of the design process.
Best time to have it done is when the contractor is slow. outside temps don’t affect setup. unless it’s too cold or too hot inside the house. You will pay less of it’s not an emergency change out, or if you do work in the off season.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Its 99% about the contractor who is installing it, will service it and show up when is fails.... for 25 years I have developed my relationship with my AC guy from customer to friend...

Stopped by his shop at least once a year with a 12 pack for him and his crew to enjoy!
Refer everyone I know to him...

6 months ago he needed help with his boat. I stored it on my side yard for 3 weeks and we took a Saturday to service both motors that needed basic maintenance.

I needed a new AC put in my rental unit... He handed me the equipment invoice directly from the supplier for a new 3 ton split unit and a week later the new AC unit was in my unit!