Hardiboard Siding Failure. What would you do?

[Sportin' Wood]

How would you fix this? Would you run away? Leave it and drive some nails into the loose boards as needed. Pretty sure the warranty is void. I'm guessing a manufactures rep if you could find one up here would say it was installed incorrectly and you're screwed.


@angiebaby and I are looking at this house in Montana, that has a serious siding failure. The whole house pretty much looks like this with the siding buckled, loose, and nearly falling off. I'm not sure if this is a Hardi brand or CertainTweed, or some other knockoff. I'm sure we have some contractors on here with experience with this stuff. From what I can find there was a class action lawsuit in which the manufacturer prevailed. There is no doubt water is getting into this product. The unknown is how well the vapor barrier was installed and how well it is performing. More below image:

The house has already had a price decrease of $100K since listing last year, and it has another $60K credit for rate buy down or repairs. 19% discount total from the listing price putting this at $285 sqft. This is less than the average per sqft local price of $315. House was completed in about 2019, but the realtor says they were still finishing the deck last year. The home seems well built, I've been down in the crawlspace which was done very nicely. This siding issue is a construction defect IMHO, not a maintenance issue.

I can't pull back the siding to check the moisture barrier, but I can see into the gaps which are extensive and it looks like the windows are wrapped correctly. some of the penetrations like electrical boxes and hose bibs are a little suspect. House is a 2400 sqft modern ranch with an additional 36x40 detached shop/garage that also has the same siding. Both are boxes with no complicated pop-outs or details.

I've replaced the siding on two other full-house makeovers. Both houses were 50-plus years old and had pretty bad structural problems caused by water damage and termites. In both cases, I did a shearwall and window replacements. I'm not sure if this house has a full exterior shearwall. I'm not really keen on doing that here if it is not done. The shop does look like a full shear so I'm gambling but assume the house does also.

I'm thinking; pull all the siding off and replace it with a 3-4 foot metal wainscot and either batt and board or some other wood siding dependent if it has a sheer panel under this. add another layer of wrap over the current wrap, and redo around the windows as needed, but I would try and stay away from pulling window trim off if possible. The metal wainscot is because the snow stains the siding up here and it makes the house look like crap after a few years. Cultured stone can pop from water freezing in the joints and behind, but does look fantastic. I suspect they went with this siding because they thought it would last 50 years. They must be sick to see this happen.

Considering:
Make an offer at $270 a sqft, fix this in stages with the breezeway wall repair being the first as this is the worst section and takes the worst of the weather. You can see around the door how the weather is going to continue hammering this house if there is not someone doing something about the issue. It will need to stay like this until next summer, I won't have time to start this project until 2024, so it has to last another winter.

House is on 3 acres, has abundant water well performance, and great septic leach field perc test. Spectacular view, three miles to the launch ramp, and custom homes in the area with light covenants and no HOA. I'm not planning to flip the property.

What say you great and powerful RDP?

 

[Sportin' Wood]

@whiteworks @HNL2LHC you guys ever seen this?

 

[Havasu blue label]

Ask for a credit for siding

 

[whiteworks]

I’d need to see it in person to give you a valid opinion. That being said, I’m a SoCal guy and don’t know the local standards nor have I repaired that situation in that area to have experience that would provide insight on how to proceed correctly. The fact it’s a new pad (2019) tells me it can’t be that jacked up even if it’s catastrophic failure. I’d say kick them in the dick on the acquisition price and then rip it all off and replace. If you see quality construction practices everywhere else that’s a good sign.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Ask for a credit for siding

There is currently a $60K credit in the listing.

 

[whiteworks]

You could always paint the whole place, caulk those butt joints and call it a day

 

[Heylam]

Seeing that the house is a fairly new build, is there a way to get the builders info and check with him on the build?

 

[hman442]

You could always paint the whole place, caulk those butt joints and call it a day

^^^This^^^
If that picture is the worst of it, I'd likely drill and nail the siding till secure, caulk it good. You might have to paint it as it'll be tough to find caulking that doesn't stand out, but I'd probably run it!

 

[Sportin' Wood]

You could always paint the whole place, caulk those butt joints and call it a day

^^^This^^^
If that picture is the worst of it, I'd likely drill and nail the siding till secure, caulk it good. You might have to paint it as it'll be tough to find caulking that doesn't stand out, but I'd probably run it!

I was thinking of colored screws to tighten it up for the short term.

 

[Flatsix66]

Looks like thermal expansion and contraction. Our siding has small gaps joined with clips to allow for movement.

 

[whiteworks]

I was thinking of colored screws to tighten it up for the short term.

You could drop a couple shoot a couple finish nails in (toe nailed) and use clear silicone on the gaps, hit it every few years with new silicone as needed and not worry about. I’d still kick them in the dick on acquisition price, recession, high interest rates, distressed property, etc..

 

[HNL2LHC]

I have an issue on our house in Hawaii. Went cheap on an added roof deck area that no one can see but in full sun. Bought a cheaper grade wood. It is cracking and gaps have shown. The good thing is that i know what is behind it and the water proofing is bullet proof.

As for this house what is under would have me second guessing. I like the idea of addressing the issues and painting. That could get you a few years if not longer. You could pull all the siding down the road to be sure the water proofing is solid behind. You can also see how your metal siding plan can age. I always hate to see a plan that you think is long term and you are back to square one.

Best of luck to you and Angie!!!

 

[endobear]

Looks like thermal expansion and contraction. Our siding has small gaps joined with clips to allow for movement.

I agree. And see the little clip/joint covers more often these days.
Used to paint alot of new hardy siding years ago. Pin nail butt joints, Sasco Big stretch caulk and 2 coats of Sherwin Williams Duration is what the hardi specs used to be.
We would use colored PL caulk on the pre finished siding like you have. Tool it with a rag dampened in mineral spirits.
90% wouldn't separate.

 

[DC-88]

I've built many houses with Hardi and Certainteed siding- most unfinished, and a few pre finished. Zero problems. For the last 10 years or so I've done all belly bands and any other possible areas including curved wall caps with it as well ( or AZEK if the material will be painted white or a light color because Azek gets squirrely when painted darker shades ). We always gap it a little tighter than spec, and still zero problems. It almost looks like maybe that siding is for a bigger exposure (wider plank look ) , and the guys crammed it down to make a smaller exposure . It is a pretty stable product, at least in Ca. climate.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I think I have a fix for this sorted out, but it is dependent on the walls being paneled with a shear wall. Thanks for the feedback as it was helpful. If it is not paneled I will have to rethink a solution.

I'm going to go take another look this week and likely make an offer on the house. If accepted I'll put a bandaid on it for the near term and long term I'll replace it one wall at a time, starting with the breezeway which IMHO really needs to be covered to address the snow shed off the shop.

Please speak up if I am on the wrong track.
Short-term fix:
Drill an oversized hole in the loose siding and drive a galvanized nail with a large head into the hole to secure the siding. The oversized hole should allow the siding to expand and contract without cracking or breaking the siding. I'll consider adding colored big stretch caulking to the larger gaps and paint the nail heads brown.

I figure this can get me by for as long as I'm willing to look at the cosmetic shortcoming. From a distance, the house looks fine and likely no one would complain. As long as the house wrap was done correctly there should not be any additional issues with doing this as far as I can see, as the siding would still provide cover to protect the wrap.

Extra points if I can find a ring-shank-coated nail with a large enough head. A galvanized ring shank teco nail would be about the right size. I'm not sure if they make that, but perhaps a roofing nail might work if I can find a hand-driven style nail. I'm suspicious of using a screw, but I know I can get just the right size and color locally as they have an assortment of deck screws, the challenge would be the length. I might be better off with the screw as I won't miss and crack the siding.

What say you?

 

[X Hoser]

I like the idea of screws the best. You will be able to control how much you pull in the siding better with them. If you are contemplating removing the siding in the future, the ring shank or galvanized nails are going to be much harder to remove than the screws. Got to remember too, things that bother you, (and would bother me too), don’t necessarily bother a lot of other people. If it’s keeping the weather out, that’s really all it is designed to do.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I like the idea of screws the best. You will be able to control how much you pull in the siding better with them. If you are contemplating removing the siding in the future, the ring shank or galvanized nails are going to be much harder to remove than the screws. Got to remember too, things that bother you, (and would bother me too), don’t necessarily bother a lot of other people. If it’s keeping the weather out, that’s really all it is designed to do.

We pulled the trigger after a little back in forth on price, so this may end up being mine to fix. I agree with this wholeheartedly.

In the end, I suspect this stuff is failing because of the following:
ASSUMPTIONS

1. Lack of primer on cuts that have been used as butt joints.
2. Lack of butt joints landing on studs with proper nailing
3. Lack of 2/3s nailing landing on studs

However, they did use the proper method to flash the butt joints.

If this thing ends up mine, I will pre-drill holes in the loose siding as needed. Uses a color-coated deck screw in the appropriate brown or tan color taking care not to over-tighten. I suspect some of the curled ends will not fall back in place without cracking. Any larger gaps and cracks might get caulk, but we'll see how it looks when I have some time to stare at it.

I likely won't do anything else regarding the siding this summer, as I plan to do some exterior redesign that will impact siding, such as covering the breezeway between the shop and house that gets the worst of the weather, installing porches on the front and back and potentially adding a metal wainscot. The wainscot may not happen and I might end up doing nothing with the siding beyond the above fix. There is a lake with fish that needs catching a couple of miles away.

 

[Mandelon]

How about tapping these butt joint covers up into place and pin nailing them?

 

[Sportin' Wood]

View attachment 1251037 How about tapping these butt joint covers up into place and pin nailing them?

We did end up buying this place and started moving in this weekend. I'll take a look at the butt connectors, but I think I'm going to band-aide this in the coming months and try and get a couple of years out of it before we do a full siding swap. I've got a couple of additions I want to perform, so the siding will need to come off in a couple of places regardless so it makes it easier to say yes, let's tear open this house.

I did find a product that is almost a perfect match, and I found out that this product was defective. The chemical mix was bad and it made the product brittle and prone to failure.

Talked to a couple of neighbors, they had no idea the siding was jacked up until they walked up to it. They also reported the house has never really been lived in except for the owner builder camping out during construction and on weekends. The underlayment is all solid, so it is just cosmetic and not a structural issue. I did blast a section with water and no intrusion whatsoever.

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

Looks like you're gonna have to change your name to Warpin' Wood bro. I say duct tape for the win.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

We pulled the trigger after a little back in forth on price, so this may end up being mine to fix. I agree with this wholeheartedly.

In the end, I suspect this stuff is failing because of the following:
ASSUMPTIONS

1. Lack of primer on cuts that have been used as butt joints.
2. Lack of butt joints landing on studs with proper nailing
3. Lack of 2/3s nailing landing on studs

However, they did use the proper method to flash the butt joints.

If this thing ends up mine, I will pre-drill holes in the loose siding as needed. Uses a color-coated deck screw in the appropriate brown or tan color taking care not to over-tighten. I suspect some of the curled ends will not fall back in place without cracking. Any larger gaps and cracks might get caulk, but we'll see how it looks when I have some time to stare at it.

I likely won't do anything else regarding the siding this summer, as I plan to do some exterior redesign that will impact siding, such as covering the breezeway between the shop and house that gets the worst of the weather, installing porches on the front and back and potentially adding a metal wainscot. The wainscot may not happen and I might end up doing nothing with the siding beyond the above fix. There is a lake with fish that needs catching a couple of miles away.

I'd get a "T" nail gun and nail it down, caulk and paint the house..

 

[2FORCEFULL]

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Looks like you're gonna have to change your name to Warpin' Wood bro. I say duct tape for the win.

Just a slight bend.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I'd get a "T" nail gun and nail it down, caulk and paint the house..

The finish on this product does not lend itself to paint. It will hold up for long enough for me to decide what I'm going to replace it with. I'll be adding porches and a metal wainscot to keep the snow and water away. The worst spot I will work on next summer.

I'm committed to no major projects this summer, I've got stuff I need to do to our RV before we head south for winter, plus make time to chase some fish.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

The finish on this product does not lend itself to paint. It will hold up for long enough for me to decide what I'm going to replace it with. I'll be adding porches and a metal wainscot to keep the snow and water away. The worst spot I will work on next summer.

I'm committed to no major projects this summer, I've got stuff I need to do to our RV before we head south for winter, plus make time to chase some fish.

I'd still just t nail the edges and caulk the gaps on the ends...

 

[BabyRay]

The finish on this product does not lend itself to paint. It will hold up for long enough for me to decide what I'm going to replace it with. I'll be adding porches and a metal wainscot to keep the snow and water away. The worst spot I will work on next summer.

I'm committed to no major projects this summer, I've got stuff I need to do to our RV before we head south for winter, plus make time to chase some fish.

Just curious; What is it about the finish that doesn’t work with paint? I’ve never heard of that being a problem.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Just curious; What is it about the finish that doesn’t work with paint? I’ve never heard of that being a problem.

It is like this.

https://woodtone.com/product/rusticseries/

It is very smooth, perhaps with a good primer, but I don't think the paint is going to add value.

The local supplier said it was just a bad product and can't handle the extreme temperature swings we get.

The best I can tell, this is a company that buys from the three manufacturers, applies a finish, and resells the product. The finish is not the problem, it is the mixture of the composite. The company that made this siding is out of business, it is not Hardi.

It does look really nice. I may use the batt and board style as a replacement.