Graphic! At the coin op car wash

[poncho]

From what I can see in the video, the officer walks up and there are wires coming out from under the hood. As soon as the door opens, we don't get the greatest look, but the officer may very well have been able to see the broken steering column. The perp talks about how his ignition switch is broken just about 1:09 in. Sounds like a stolen car to me. Maybe the officer saw more than I can see in the video. Seems like probable cause to me.

I agree, that was a copy/paste comment I pulled from a news article showing how stupid some people are, the Cop knew what was up right away I'm sure.

 

[Mcob25rg]

Poncho, you couldn’t be more off base. When the perp threatened the cop, he’s destination was set. Sons been a Leo for 20 years, I’ve been through every situation you can imagine, and some you can’t. Armchair ing is super easy - go out on the streets for a couple shifts in a major city and your view will change drastically

 

[OLDRAAT]

Summary is: The cop needs more training, but went home safe. The scumbag didn't.

 

[STV_Keith]

Summary is: The cop needs more training, but went home safe. The scumbag didn't.

Disagree. Training looks to be spot on.

• Identified potentially stolen vehicle immediately and gave dispatch the plate.
• Stayed calm trying to get scumbag to comply and exit.
• Stayed calm after scumbag says he has a gun in his hand and repeatedly asks threateningly "do you want to go home tonight", etc.
• Has shootout and gained distance
• Tactical reload
• Took cover
• Calmly called it in and gave instructions to others how to get to the scene

 

[done]

Exactly. As soon as he said that, he had to verify identity and ownership of the vehicle. I was waiting to hear his radio come back with the car being stolen.

Kid was sketchy as Hell, The cop could of yanked him out as soon as saw any thing with ign wires ,car plugged in......Bottom line the police officer
had no other way out, Kid threatened the shit out of him and he stayed calm for a long time.

 

[poncho]

Poncho, you couldn’t be more off base. When the perp threatened the cop, he’s destination was set. Sons been a Leo for 20 years, I’ve been through every situation you can imagine, and some you can’t. Armchair ing is super easy - go out on the streets for a couple shifts in a major city and your view will change drastically

You completely misunderstood me.

 

[poncho]

Poncho, you couldn’t be more off base. When the perp threatened the cop, he’s destination was set. Sons been a Leo for 20 years, I’ve been through every situation you can imagine, and some you can’t. Armchair ing is super easy - go out on the streets for a couple shifts in a major city and your view will change drastically

I may not have clarified this part well enough, this was a comment at the end of an article by someone (not me) who thought the Cop should have just walked from what he thought was a crime, which is ridiculous to think that. I was pointing out the mindset of a modern liberal who thinks cops should just let criminals go.

This is the comment I copied and pasted.

If the dead guy had not committed a crime, or been suspected of committing a crime there was no lawful reason to ask for ID. That is the beginning of the end for the man. It started with an unlawful demand for ID. If the cop would have asked if he needed help, got no for an answer then left he would not have been placed in a position to shoot a man that may or may not have had a gun but was obviously having a bad day that the cop escalated into a fatal shooting of dubious justification. FLAME ON.

 

[Mcob25rg]

Apologies given. MY bad, you’re right I didn’t understand. I just can’t believe anyone could be in the perps side. These deadly cop situations are really close to home for me. Please accept an out of bounds parent - I didn’t get the context. I’m not afraid to admit it, and say IM WRONG, and on this one I am. I’ll always give the advantage to the officer unless you can show me otherwise for obvious reasons, so again, I’m sorry. Please accept my sincerity

 

[poncho]

Apologies given. MY bad, you’re right I didn’t understand. I just can’t believe anyone could be in the perps side. These deadly cop situations are really close to home for me. Please accept an out of bounds parent - I didn’t get the context. I’m not afraid to admit it, and say IM WRONG, and on this one I am. I’ll always give the advantage to the officer unless you can show me otherwise for obvious reasons, so again, I’m sorry. Please accept my sincerity

Amen Brother,
A good person goes home and hugs his Wife and children or a society predator who has no desire to be a good person, the choice is easy for me.

 

[FCT]

Pretty sure probable cause came into play when the officer noticed the ignition wires hanging out. Officer kept his cool did not escalate the situation.

Exactly. His intuition was right. It’s very clear he was trained well.

Someone in that mental state with a gun is a danger to society. It’s a sad situation but I’d rather him dead than some innocent victim.

 

[TPC]

Enzo:

 

[4Waters]

Enzo:

I just saw the video. That dog did not want to give up but ultimately had to let go and he went straight to his partner for help. I wish the cops would have just dropped the suspect. Hope Enzo makes a full recovery.

 

[Backlash]

I'm so sick and tired of the PC phrase "Alleged suspect." GTFO! If the mutherfucker in custody has bite marks and bruises from less lethal munitions, I'd say it's safe to say he is THE suspect. Fucking woke ass media!

 

[poncho]

I'm so sick and tired of the PC phrase "Alleged suspect." GTFO! If the mutherfucker in custody has bite marks and bruises from less lethal munitions, I'd say it's safe to say he is THE suspect. Fucking woke ass media!

Yea, those are fun especially when they include a video of the perp doing the crime
.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Did I miss something , with the scene (hood up pulled out wires etc) the way it was, would protocol dictate backup a bit earlier in the sage ? just curious LEOs

 

[havasujeeper]

His call sign was "Lincoln", which is usually indicative that he was a Lieutenant, but thought I heard someone call him Sergeant. Hell, they don't leave the office unless they need a fresh cup of coffee. With that being said, you can tell he had some time on the books by the way he kept cool, calm and collective.

 

[t&y]

Did I miss something , with the scene (hood up pulled out wires etc) the way it was would protocol dictate backup a bit earlier in the sage ? just curious LEOs

And this is where the actions in the moment judged by your peers (think cops with same level of experience) come into play regarding what actions are reasonable, and what tactics should be employed (Case law, long standing in place by SCOTUS). Keeping in mind that laws and policies vary between states, and the approved training between departments vary (Think technique used on Fentanyl Floyd WAS the approved and taught technique right up until everyone had to testify... fucking cowards), here is how I would evaluate that stop. Unfortunately, this is what I have to do on the regular now. Then try to find "nice" ways to explain this shit to very highly paid people with very little understanding of what being a cop in the field is, let alone what the law allows us to do.

Contact: Did he have a legal reason to be there? Time appears to be shortly after 0100 hours.
I could type quite a bit on this, but let's keep it simple. The suspect's vehicle appears to be disabled (this is also a common tactic by those parked in public places for nefarious reasons). Cop pulls up, alongside, non-detention (no rotating lights) and exits. Walks by vehicle (a lot to discuss there....) then contacts the occupant. At this point it is still a consensual encounter at a minimum. Based on this cop's experience, it may already be investigative based on reasonable suspicion. Once that door is open and he starts talking to the guy, it goes from reasonable suspicion (limited investigative options) to probable cause a crime is or has occurred very quick. Even rookie cops can recognize the obvious signs here. So, is the contact and detention legal? YES. Just based on the initial observations it is a good probable cause investigation and detention. If this was a call for service, business closed, trespass signs posted, etc etc etc... that suspect is already arrestable (based on Cali or Municipal laws).

Detention: In vehicle or out of vehicle & investigative questions thereafter.
This is the part that makes me jump out of my seat and start yelling at the monitor , pretty much like watching cops on tv. But it goes directly back to this specific cop's level of experience, tactics, and training. Does he have a right to demand identification at this point. In Cali, yes, if you believe the person is/has/about to commit a crime, then Yes, getting ID is lawful. Infact, it can also be arrestable at that point. Can he order him out of the car? Yes, this is a lawful detention, and he can either order him to remain or get out. Detention is good... and the next part is where attorney's make their millions... TACTICS.

Tactics: In/out of car detention, call for back up, time distance and position.
Legal contact? YES. Legal detention? YES. Now what? Unfortunately, this is the type of action that Libturd Attorney's/Lawyers love to see, regardless of whether they make the risks higher for everyone involved. My time, that dude would have been under control and out of the car very shortly after that door was open. Fight on? Maybe, but based on thousands of traffic stops, I'd say he would have come peacefully or not, and there would have not been escalation to deadly force at that time (again, based specifically on my training and experience, not his). Hesitation kills... and again, I could type quite a bit on this, but lets keep it simple. The cop in this scenario gave that guy every opportunity to provide very basic information that in most places is required by law at this point. He probably should have requested back up (should have does not = required by law) by this point, but without knowing their deployment schedule there may not have been anybody in the area (CHP and small Muni Agencie run into this a lot). The suspect never stopped moving his hands around the vehicle and would not stop, look at the cop, and engage. Time here allowed the suspect to think, process and make a plan. Again, this is what the Libturds want instead of immediate action by the cop. Me, if I had let the detention go that far inside the car, based on what I am seeing, I would have already called for non-emergent back up at a minimum. Once he asked him to step out and it was refused, backup and a supervisor over the air would have been my next step. This again, is based on my experience and department standards, not what we are legally obligated to do. At this point, I am not aware of any legal requirement for this cop to ask for a supervisor backup.

He is already at the door, appears to be utilizing the B-pillar for cover (actually very effective at stopping rounds) so he is in a good place to maintain contact an observation of the suspect. Tactics here vary greatly between departments. Is it plausible to believe had he disengaged and moved to the rear of the vehicle while giving verbal commands and waiting for backup, that his shooting would have never occurred? Yes, it is plausible. It is required and the best option all the time, no it is neither required nor the best option all the time. This cop maintained a very calm demeanor, and it could easily be argued he continually attempted to deescalate the situation with a suspect who was already a bit spun up by his own account. Backing away at this point would also give the suspect a much better opportunity to bring that gun up into firing position and this is literally where fractions of a second in reaction time can be the difference between Life or Death. Me, in this very specific situation on video, I would have remained at the B-pillar as well (remembering this is not where I would have let it go in the first place).

Shooting / Use of Deadly Force:
The suspect made his intentions pretty clear here. Even the staunchest of cop hating attorneys would run from his actions at this point after he acknowledges he has a gun in his hand and begins asking the cop if he wants to go home tonight. Some of the Libturdiest of Libturds would still argue... "Well, did you confirm it was a real gun prior to firing your weapon?" But the end result based on current case law would still be the same. The threshold for deadly force in this case is met. I have not been able to slow the video down enough to see what specific action led to the first volley of rounds being fired, but I think we can reasonably assume based on the suspects verbal threats, and physical actions, that he began to move the gun in hand up to position to fire. That was the FAFO moment and the cop won, thankfully. And something that the Libturds still can't grasp, even in this video, there are things the cop is seeing with his own eyes that will not show up on video based on where the camera is on his body and how they are mounted. For all we know, the cop had a clear visual on the gun in his hand and clearly saw the move prior to firing.

Post Shooting Tactics:
This again is one of those situations that will vary depending on training and experience and many options are good here. I don't see any issue with his decision to move back, creating distance, and offsetting himself utilizing the vehicles own obstructions (window placement and interior design), lighting situation (Overhead Lights on pillars), and now not only the B-Pillar but the C-pillar. I would have probably taken the same route back, but then cut in and around the other side of that dumpster trying to keep a clear visual on the driver's door opening if possible. He remained very calm, announced what happened, and began coordinating his responding units.

This cop did an outstanding job! My critique in no way is attempting to point out discrepancies, just other options.

 

[havasujeeper]

^ Well said Brother!

 

[poncho]

Thanks t&y for taking the time to break that down like you did, I imagine in todays climate speaking publicly is a hard thing to do.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Answered My question, Thanks Tom , stay safe out there

 

[Mcob25rg]

Agree with everything above. The video can’t encapsulate officer’s experience, having been in this situation many times, and aware of other similar situations. Armchairing doesn’t have the requirements of action, but EVERYTHING T&Y said is spot on!