Gold

[spectras only]

Are any of you investing in gold ? It may reach $2000 /oz in the near future There's more debt in the world than money ,one trillion just in credit cards . I guess cash in your pillow or gold is the way to go .
Any thoughts on this ?

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

 

[Yellowboat]

I did a few years back... put 5k in when it was aout $420/oz

 

[maxwedge]

I considered buying gold, but then some guy named Inmahr Sjbjahad emailed me from India about a million dollar inheritance that's owed me, so I'm just waiting on that.

 

[OverKill]

I have done some pretty in depth research on Gold/presious metals. Yes gold will go threw the roof in worth. If your worried about the dollar crashing and it will, then by in small quantities. Like gold coins of tenth of an ounce, they are easier to off load in time of need. Don't get all cought up in gold bars of 1 ounce/ 10 ounces, much to hard to off load.

If you want to be as safe as you can in your assest investments, then Silver is the way to go. Cheaper and much much much easier to off load. Right now you can purchase silver for about $16 dollars an ouce, and is certanly going to climb as high as gold percentage wise.

Just remember, it's just like a house. Your house might be worth $350,000 but you can only off load it for about $225,000. That is why I say Silver is a bigger bang for your buck and will hold your finances together better than gold.

Also don't get cought up in Gold/Silver coins for what they are. For example a 1920's rare coin with the face value of $1.00 and the seller wants $500.00 for it because there was only 100 of them made or it's in mint condition. Because when the dollar crashes and I mean really crahses, the only thing that is going to matter is (Weight In Gold/Presious metals).

OverKill

 

[SBjet]

Gold is not an investment. You can buy it as a hedge if you like, but don't think of it as an investment, very poor returns.

 

[Orange Juice]

Gold is finally hanging it’s hat over $2000

 

[Uncle Dave]

Are any of you investing in gold ? It may reach $2000 /oz in the near future There's more debt in the world than money ,one trillion just in credit cards . I guess cash in your pillow or gold is the way to go .
Any thoughts on this ?

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

Every portfolio could use some modest % of precious metals.

I've been buying gold a while.

I live in an area with many active assay shops, and gold mines.

Of all the formats I prefer the 4 -9 coins.

Paper gold is baloney. Insist on the genuine article and hold it.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Gold is not an investment. You can buy it as a hedge if you like, but don't think of it as an investment, very poor returns.

Im not sure it's that black and white.
I'd say it's not likely the best investment at any given time.
Gold can only appreciate vs appreciate, split, throw dividends, but if you can play the long game, it's a pretty safe store.

In 2000 my gold coins cost 250 each, and my gm stock was around 90 a share.

The gm stock is now toilet paper and the coins 700% up.

 

[Tom Slick]

For a guy that knows nothing about buying precious metals like gold/silver, how do I go about it? Where do I go? What do I look for? How do I know I'm getting the right deal and buying the right thing? Thanks

 

[Bpracing1127]

Here is a good place to start

Buy Gold & Silver Bullion Online | Free Shipping - JM Bullion

Buy Gold, Silver, and Platinum bullion online at JM Bullion. FREE Shipping on $199+ Orders. Immediate Delivery - Call Us 800-276-6508 - BBB Accredited.

amp.jmbullion.com

 

[McKay]

For a guy that knows nothing about buying precious metals like gold/silver, how do I go about it? Where do I go? What do I look for? How do I know I'm getting the right deal and buying the right thing? Thanks

Not sure where you are at but I would compare your local shop to SD Bullion. Bought from many online dealers and they seam to be the easiest with fair pricing. Of course shop around and pay attention to premiums. I tend to stick to Eagles, Maples, Buffalo's, Krugerrands, Britania's, Double Eagles, etc. Have bought some Franc's here and their when I have bought them at no premiums. For Silver I only have Eagles, and constitutional silver for coins but have not bought any recently because of premiums. Last time I bought the premiums were under $2. Did pick up some kilo bars last month when spot was close to $20 and premiums where low. But I would stick to smaller products if you are just starting to stack.

 

[McKay]

Here is a good place to start

Buy Gold & Silver Bullion Online | Free Shipping - JM Bullion

Buy Gold, Silver, and Platinum bullion online at JM Bullion. FREE Shipping on $199+ Orders. Immediate Delivery - Call Us 800-276-6508 - BBB Accredited.

amp.jmbullion.com

I like JM as well.

 

[PlumLoco]

I would second checking SD Bullion for best prices. I buy bullion mostly due to the smaller mark up, but coins are harder to fake.
Ebay for best prices but security scares me off.
Silver is a cheaper way to start, but is harder to store. Much more volatile than gold, so you can possibly make a bigger gain (or loss). Markup on silver is stupid high right now, and has been for a while.
Kitco has an online Forum section with a lot of solid info.

 

[retaocleg]

$2 over spot on silver? you havent bought in awhile then.......$5 is about the lowest on rounds and have to buy 100+ for that, and for eagles it is like $20 over
junk silver is 30x face value, and hard to find anything in stock.....unless you want 30k worth

i use sd bullion, jm bullion, and apmex.....ebay has a fake problem on eagles, but im sure it is all silver

 

[McKay]

$2 over spot on silver? you havent bought in awhile then.......$5 is about the lowest on rounds and have to buy 100+ for that, and for eagles it is like $20 over
junk silver is 30x spot, and hard to find anything in stock.....unless you want 30k worth

i use sd bullion, jm bullion, and apmex.....ebay has a fake problem on eagles, but im sure it is all silver

Yes last time I bought eagles I think was somewhere around 2020. It was 8-9 monster boxes split between a couple buddies.

 

[Tom Slick]

Not sure where you are at but I would compare your local shop to SD Bullion. Bought from many online dealers and they seam to be the easiest with fair pricing. Of course shop around and pay attention to premiums. I tend to stick to Eagles, Maples, Buffalo's, Krugerrands, Britania's, Double Eagles, etc. Have bought some Franc's here and their when I have bought them at no premiums. For Silver I only have Eagles, and constitutional silver for coins but have not bought any recently because of premiums. Last time I bought the premiums were under $2. Did pick up some kilo bars last month when spot was close to $20 and premiums where low. But I would stick to smaller products if you are just starting to stack.

Aren't precious metals valued by weight? Why does the actual coin ex. Eagles, Maples, Buffalo's, Krugerrands, Britania's, Double Eagles matter? Thank you

 

[Your ad here]

Old thread but I still fail to realize why invest in gold? You can't put it to work to make more money and it's not like a house... not everyone needs gold as were everyone needs a place to live.

 

[bentprops]

gold is a place to store wealth not a place to make it. You keep your extra $$ in gold so it dosent lose value like cash.

 

[hallett21]

@Enen

 

[McKay]

Aren't precious metals valued by weight? Why does the actual coin ex. Eagles, Maples, Buffalo's, Krugerrands, Britania's, Double Eagles matter? Thank you

Yes but premiums change based on desirability.

 

[Uncle Dave]

For a guy that knows nothing about buying precious metals like gold/silver, how do I go about it? Where do I go? What do I look for? How do I know I'm getting the right deal and buying the right thing? Thanks

Kitco & Monex are my main go to places.
JM bullion seems ok.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Aren't precious metals valued by weight? Why does the actual coin ex. Eagles, Maples, Buffalo's, Krugerrands, Britania's, Double Eagles matter? Thank you

Yes.

As long as the coin is .9999 pure its form matters little however there are occasionally standouts.

My original Vienna philharmonics were stamped on their face at 200 schillings which set the floor in case gold dropped below the face value so it was a better call at the time than a coin with 50 stamped on the face.

The krugerrand used to always be worth a few dollars less than the other coins as a protest.

 

[LuauLounge]

My wife has been investing in gold for close to 50 years. Got so bad that Ben Bridge became one of the family.

 

[PlumLoco]

Many coins are 22kt gold vs 24k so the y are less prone to damage being handled. I believe American coins are 24 except the Eagles. For some reason Canadian Maples always seem to stay among the cheapest and yet the easiest to buy.

 

[RandyH]

Miles Franklin can be trusted if your looking to buy and take possession. Its the only way to go. Great way to transfer excess wealth to others without your lawyer or Uncle Sam getting involved at the time of your death.

 

[ElAzul]

For a guy that knows nothing about buying precious metals like gold/silver, how do I go about it? Where do I go? What do I look for? How do I know I'm getting the right deal and buying the right thing? Thanks

I called a reputable coin shop that was close enough and ordered my metal's direct from them. They were glad to help

 

[JJ McClure]

Well. When the shit hits the fan... I feel like small silver pieces would be more tradable. How are you gonna trade gold for butter and bread?

 

[PlumLoco]

In a real SHTF situation you could put $100K of gold in a cigarette box. $100K of silver weighs 250 lbs. Where are you going to hide that? How will you move it or trade it without attracting attention.
But silver can double in value in a few days or weeks. Play the silver to gold ratio game in the beginning. It is an easy way to let the market pay for your "bets".

 

[Uncle Dave]

Well. When the shit hits the fan... I feel like small silver pieces would be more tradable. How are you gonna trade gold for butter and bread?

For gold - The smaller coins are more flexible than the 1 oz. coins.

When it comes to silver I prefer ingots/bullion to coins.

Check out the cool Valcambi combi bars .
They are designed to be easily divisible with each little piece bearing the foundry mark.
You can get them in gold, silver, platinum, and palladium.

 

[Orange Juice]

I went through a phase where I was buying 1996 silver eagles only. Non graded. Once I hit my 1000 coin mark, I stopped. My average cost with shipping is under $14.
1996 is rarest of years, and figured if/when I sell them, I want top dollar fast.

Silver is a by-product of copper mining, and sells at market price. It’s not recession proof…..inflation proof maybe.

With gold, I bought double eagles. My gold average over 20 years $885 an ounce. I missed the $250 an ounce days.

At this point, I don’t find Silver or gold an attractive investment. Been there, done that, got enough to feel safe in my lifetime, and my bank deposit box is full. Silver takes up too much space.






I

 

[Havexico]

The Petro Dollar will fall. The BRICS nations will make sure of it before Brandon and his cronies blink to fix it. BRICS nations are moving to gold back currency. This will undoubtedly force our hand to move back (which is better for us -finally). When Nixon (Rothschilds) put us on the Oil dollar, they new their scam was only going to last so long. Don't get left behind...

Nobody will take our paper when the rest of the world is precious metal backed. Silver has been held down forever. It will, in my mind, rocket.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The Petro Dollar will fall. The BRICS nations will make sure of it before Brandon and his cronies blink to fix it. BRICS nations are moving to gold back currency. This will undoubtedly force our hand to move back (which is better for us -finally). When Nixon (Rothschilds) put us on the Oil dollar, they new their scam was only going to last so long. Don't get left behind...

Nobody will take our paper when the rest of the world is precious metal backed. Silver has been held down forever. It will, in my mind, rocket.

We partially share the same message - get some metal in your portfolio-

I doubt very much the scenario is going to play out as you mention.

 

[Rajobigguy]

I invest in lead, copper and brass. If/when the dollar collapses I will trade what I have for gold and silver.

 

[JJ McClure]

I invest in lead, copper and brass. If/when the dollar collapses I will trade what I have for gold and silver.

Where can I invest in lithium. EV car market seems on the upswing.

 

[Orange Juice]

Where can I invest in lithium. EV car market seems on the upswing.

Lithium recycling

 

[JJ McClure]

Lithium recycling

Solid. Now that’s a business model. How do we do it??

 

[yuppie]

I'm more into that "digital gold", if you know what I mean.

 

[retaocleg]

Lithium recycling

+fire prevention

 

[MPHSystems]

Im not sure it's that black and white.
I'd say it's not likely the best investment at any given time.
Gold can only appreciate vs appreciate, split, throw dividends, but if you can play the long game, it's a pretty safe store.

In 2000 my gold coins cost 250 each, and my gm stock was around 90 a share.

The gm stock is now toilet paper and the coins 700% up.

Judis Was paid 40 oz of silver for Jesus head. At that time 40 oz of silver was worth about 2 weeks of a carpenters salary

Today, an oz of silver is $25…. 40 of them would be $1k


How did that “investment” do over 2,000 years?

that said, I moved about 25% of my portfolio into PMs 3 years ago.

 

[JJ McClure]

+fire prevention

We’re going. Seriously. This is a solid business model in the world now.

 

[JJ McClure]

Judis Was paid 40 oz of silver for Jesus head. At that time 40 oz of silver was worth about 2 weeks of a carpenters salary

Today, an oz of silver is $25…. 40 of them would be $1k


How did that “investment” do over 2,000 years?

that said, I moved about 25% of my portfolio into PMs 3 years ago.

Is that right? I’ve heard something similar. 40 oz back then would be chicken feed money. Any real data on the cost of silver then?

 

[Orange Juice]

I'm more into that "digital gold", if you know what I mean.

Cryptocurrency?

 

[Orange Juice]

Solid. Now that’s a business model. How do we do it??

I think you buy a Chinese shipping vessel, pack it with old lithium, take it out to sea 50 miles and dump it.

Then when you’ve made enough money, invest in actual technology to recycle Lithium, and become a leader in recycling.

 

[JJ McClure]

I think you buy a Chinese shipping vessel, pack it with old lithium, take it out to sea 50 miles and dump it.

Then when you’ve made enough money, invest in actual technology to recycle Lithium, and become a leader in recycling.

Thats a start up.

 

[Enen]

@Enen

You rang?...

Where do I start... There is some good advice in this thread so far. Let's start with mindset, approach and time-horizon.

You don't buy physical precious metals to get rich, you buy them so that you are NEVER poor. Approaching this with the mindset of an equity investment may not be the best frame of reference to consider gold and silver. A currency conversion may be a better way to look at this asset.

We all trade our time and productivity for US Dollars. The value of the dollar is declining ( inflation). There are external pressures on the dollar that have never been present in the past. ( BRICS, potential loss of worlds reserve currency status)

Physical gold and silver to a lesser extent is a store of value (SOV). When the value of the dollar is declining, the chess move may be to execute a currency conversion and protect the value of the time and productivity your pile of dollars represents.

Any physical asset has a buy/sell spread. As a broker/dealer my cost on gold bullion ranges from 3% to 23% over spot, depending on the type of gold. ( not all gold is created equal, not all gold trades at the same price) A dealer has a markup from there.

The price you pay for physical metals consists of three things.

1. Spot Price ( this is also referred as Melt price)
2. Wholesale Premium ( this is the cost a dealer pays over spot)
3. Dealer Markup.

DEALERS DO NOT BUY AT SPOT PRICE. This is a general assumption and it is incorrect. Wholesale premiums are subject to supply and demand and fluctuate like anything else in life right now. As an example my dealer cost for a 1oz American Eagle has been as much as $15 over melt.

The combination of these three things creates a buy/ sell spread. If you buy gold today and sell it tomorrow, you will lose money. In a NORMAL market this is not an asset to consider with less than a 5 year time-horizon. In a normal market it generally takes about three years to " clear your spread". This is the point where you could sell your coins or bars and break even. Holding another 2 years beyond that and people generally have an equitable position in their asset. I don't know how to set an expectation on how the current conditions will impact the time-horizon except to say that it only serves to shorten the length of time it could take to " clear your spread". Having said that, I would not recommend anyone buy physical gold or silver with less than a 5 year time horizon.


Hopefully this gives a frame of reference. As mentioned JM Bullion, SD Bullion and APMEX are all great places that have a low dealer markup.

 

[PlumLoco]

My first purchases of gold were slightly more than $1200 oz. I had money from an inheritance and wanted something safer than the stock market. I lost 30% during the crash in 2008-09 and didn't want to have that happen again. 15 years later my professionally managed portfolio is looking to dive again, and I am giving serious thought to getting back into PM's in a big way. However real estate is looking pretty good too. Home values are going to tumble and rent is continuing to go up. People have to have a place to live. A BIG down payment on a house isn't near as sexy as the shiny stuff, but it may be a better investment for the short term. In the very long term, the price of gold is never going back to below $1750 oz. I am expecting it to be around $2500-2900 a year from now. Regular citizens in China and India, along with their governments, are buying of astonishing amounts of gold right now. Biden has fumbled so badly that the U.S. dollar is in danger of losing it international reserve status. If the world starts buying energy in something other than dollars, gold will go through the roof.

 

[MPHSystems]

@Enen


You rang?...

Where do I start... There is some good advice in this thread so far. Let's start with mindset, approach and time-horizon.

You don't buy physical precious metals to get rich, you buy them so that you are NEVER poor. Approaching this with the mindset of an equity investment may not be the best frame of reference to consider gold and silver. A currency conversion may be a better way to look at this asset.

We all trade our time and productivity for US Dollars. The value of the dollar is declining ( inflation). There are external pressures on the dollar that have never been present in the past. ( BRICS, potential loss of worlds reserve currency status)

Physical gold and silver to a lesser extent is a store of value (SOV). When the value of the dollar is declining, the chess move may be to execute a currency conversion and protect the value of the time and productivity your pile of dollars represents.

Any physical asset has a buy/sell spread. As a broker/dealer my cost on gold bullion ranges from 3% to 23% over spot, depending on the type of gold. ( not all gold is created equal, not all gold trades at the same price) A dealer has a markup from there.

The price you pay for physical metals consists of three things.

1. Spot Price ( this is also referred as Melt price)
2. Wholesale Premium ( this is the cost a dealer pays over spot)
3. Dealer Markup.

DEALERS DO NOT BUY AT SPOT PRICE. This is a general assumption and it is incorrect. Wholesale premiums are subject to supply and demand and fluctuate like anything else in life right now. As an example my dealer cost for a 1oz American Eagle has been as much as $15 over melt.

The combination of these three things creates a buy/ sell spread. If you buy gold today and sell it tomorrow, you will lose money. In a NORMAL market this is not an asset to consider with less than a 5 year time-horizon. In a normal market it generally takes about three years to " clear your spread". This is the point where you could sell your coins or bars and break even. Holding another 2 years beyond that and people generally have an equitable position in their asset. I don't know how to set an expectation on how the current conditions will impact the time-horizon except to say that it only serves to shorten the length of time it could take to " clear your spread". Having said that, I would not recommend anyone buy physical gold or silver with less than a 5 year time horizon.


Hopefully this gives a frame of reference. As mentioned JM Bullion, SD Bullion and APMEX are all great places that have a low dealer markup.

Very good info.

IMO, AGE’s ASE’s pandas, maples etc are much harder to make the spread but they are more liquid. They are quite recognizable and anyone will buy them for spot at any time. Just find a pawn shop.


Generic rounds and bars don’t have as much markup but you may need to have them assayed to sell them. YMMV


Kitco and APMEX and a few others fall in between. Well recognized without themassive primium

A 1 oz ASE is $2,195, philharmonic is $2,095 and a generic round is $2,095 from APMEX. Spot is $1,995 at the time of posting.

You will need a 5%-15% swing just to break even.


I stack mostly APMEX and kitco rounds and I buy gold mining stocks when I think inflation is coming up


I also invest in lead, copper and brass

 

[Your ad here]

gold is a place to store wealth not a place to make it. You keep your extra $$ in gold so it dosent lose value like cash.

This makes the most cents and answers my question.

 

[Enen]

Very good info.

IMO, AGE’s ASE’s pandas, maples etc are much harder to make the spread but they are more liquid. They are quite recognizable and anyone will buy them for spot at any time. Just find a pawn shop.


Generic rounds and bars don’t have as much markup but you may need to have them assayed to sell them. YMMV


Kitco and APMEX and a few others fall in between. Well recognized without themassive primium

A 1 oz ASE is $2,195, philharmonic is $2,095 and a generic round is $2,095 from APMEX. Spot is $1,995 at the time of posting.

You will need a 5%-15% swing just to break even.


I stack mostly APMEX and kitco rounds and I buy gold mining stocks when I think inflation is coming up


I also invest in lead, copper and brass

The type of gold you purchase matters. " The most bang for the buck" or " the cheapest premium over spot" is a strategy that can get people into trouble. When it comes to this asset the cheapest is not always the best.

If you buy the right type of bullion, you will have an exit above melt. When we make recommendations for people, we look at three metrics.

1. Lowest wholesale sell premium
2. Highest wholesale buy premium
3. Velocity of trading.

Like any asset, you want to consider your exit at some point in the future. That's when things really matter.

I would strongly discourage anyone from buying on EBAY. We are seeing fake Gold and Silver American Eagles come into the market. They are indistinguishable from real gold until you put them on a spectrometer. The guy that thinks he's getting a great deal from an online auction site stands a high probability of buying a fugazi.

 

[DRYHEAT]

I invest in lead, copper and brass. If/when the dollar collapses I will trade what I have for gold and silver.

The best precious metals to have for any occasion.