Gale Banks compound motor

[RiverDave]

I am still trying to wrap my head around what exactly is going on here

 

[warpt71]

Blower on top to help get things going at low rpm?

 

[ToMorrow44]

I am still trying to wrap my head around what exactly is going on here

View attachment 1189388

Supercharger is used for the low end torque and get the motor spinning and the turbos spooled up faster. I forget if he had some type of uncoupling with the supercharger pulley, but regardless, the supercharger doesn’t do much once the motor is spinning.

As Gale says, the supercharger is used to “kick the turbos in the ass”

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Assuming it’s the Duramax here. The videos Gale has been doing are pretty crazy.

 

[boat527]

Yup..

Assuming it’s the Duramax here. The videos Gale has been doing are pretty crazy.

Mega HP.. super efficient.
Banks is a mad scientist.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Yup..

Mega HP.. super efficient.
Banks is a mad scientist.

As long as I don’t come near CA with it, maybe I can get that from him in my next GMC Sierra HD.

 

[ka0tyk]

Yup..

Mega HP.. super efficient.
Banks is a mad scientist.

A marketing genius yes, a scientist no.

 

[Crazyhippy]

Haven't Boostpower been doing the same thing for years? (Decade maybe?)

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Haven't Boostpower been doing the same thing for years? (Decade maybe?)

It’s actually a really old concept, was tried in the drags back in the 70s I think. Mainly on gas engines though, like BP’s been doing recently.

Gale’s doing all this with the Duramax diesel.

 

[Shlbyntro]

It’s actually a really old concept, was tried in the drags back in the 70s I think. Mainly on gas engines though, like BP’s been doing recently.

Gale’s doing all this with the Duramax diesel.

Volvo Penta has been doing this with their IPS deisels and merc has been doing it with their 1350/1550 race motors for quite a while now

 

[Apex svt]

Is this a turbo design I’ve never seen? Why is the cold side inlet plumbed to the intake of the motor?

 

[Drew]

I think a pro charger is all that shit in one isn’t it? I never understood the double boost like that

 

[DRYHEAT]

I don’t know, but I would sure like to look into the Plenum underneath the blower. Wondering if there’s two separate compartments I don’t know how blower boost wouldn’t push back on the turbos and vice versa.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Is this a turbo design I’ve never seen? Why is the cold side inlet plumbed to the intake of the motor?

Eaton/Magnuson supercharger feeds into the silver mount/box. It acts as a manifold, and moves air into cold side. Hot side comes out the scrolls, and into the red "box" beneath the mount and blower assembly. By size and shape, probably also a charge cooler, then into the intakes on the heads.

 

[DRYHEAT]

I don’t know, but I would sure like to look into the Plenum underneath the blower. Wondering if there’s two separate compartments I don’t know how blower boost wouldn’t push back on the turbos and vice versa.

Oops disregard what I said I looked at the picture better now.

 

[Maw]

My 40 year old Detroit Diesels did this, TIB trim = Turbo/Intercooler/Blower

 

[Smitty7]

Well that"s cool and all but I think a lot people would be happy if they just fix the emissions shit on diesels they currently sell.

 

[Shlbyntro]

My 40 year old Detroit Diesels did this, TIB trim = Turbo/Intercooler/Blower

well detroits wont run at all without the blower.....

 

[Maw]

Well Detroits won't run at all without the blower.....

Yup, but once running and under modest boost there is a bypass port around the blower that eliminates some of the parasitic losses associated with the Roots type compressors. Pretty good performance from an early 1980's technology.

 

[boat527]

A marketing genius yes, a scientist no.

Wow.. .your .02 i get it..
Just a phrase man
Go back and post in the Speed thread..

 

[Taboma]

Yup, but once running and under modest boost there is a bypass port around the blower that eliminates some of the parasitic losses associated with the Roots type compressors. Pretty good performance from an early 1980's technology.

The superchargers we had on the quad 6-71's for our Army LCM's, purpose was as exhaust scavengers on the 2-strokes, not boost charging the intake.

 

[Shlbyntro]

The superchargers we had on the quad 6-71's for our Army LCM's, purpose was as exhaust scavengers on the 2-strokes, not boost charging the intake.

theyre not there for boost. theyre there to create positive intake pressure so that the air charge will go into the cylinders on the downstroke. generally speaking they only produced about 2-3psi and it was more about airflow, not so much the pressure on the detroits

 

[Taboma]

theyre not there for boost. theyre there to create positive intake pressure so that the air charge will go into the cylinders on the downstroke. generally speaking they only produced about 2-3psi and it was more about airflow, not so much the pressure on the detroits

Yup and as it pushes in the intake air, it also scavenges out the exhaust air. I really wasn't implying it sucked them out.

It was actually termed "Uniflow Scavenging".

 

[rivermobster]

Wow.. .your .02 i get it..
Just a phrase man
Go back and post in the Speed thread..

He's not wrong...

Banks sells his shit for double what you could buy it for anywhere else.

He took lessons from that Stephen Jobs guy.

 

[rrrr]

My 40 year old Detroit Diesels did this, TIB trim = Turbo/Intercooler/Blower

Production of the turbo supercharged Detroit Diesel Series 71 engine began in 1938. The 71 number refers to the individual cylinder capacity in liters. It has been produced in four, six, and eight inline versions, and in four, six, eight, twelve, sixteen, and twenty four V block versions.

The concept of using a Roots type supercharger for cylinder scavenging in two stroke diesel engines was first utilized late in the 1910 decade. Unlike the use of Roots blowers to increase intake air volume above ambient conditions in gasoline powered performance applications to boost engine power output, the blower on two stroke diesel engines was used to evacuate post ignition gases in the cylinder. That increased engine efficiency.

The turbocharger was introduced to the two stroke diesel application in the early 1930s. This was done to increase the intake charge volume above ambient conditions. Combined with the supercharger, the turbosupercharged Series 71 engine produced significant engine horsepower.

The use of the turbocharger and supercharger to increase intake air volume coupled with the invention of modern fuel injection by Stuart Hilborn in the 1940s caught the attention of Southern California hot rodders. The rest, as is said, is history.

 

[Shlbyntro]

Production of the turbo supercharged Detroit Diesel Series 71 engine began in 1938. The 71 number refers to the individual cylinder capacity in liters. It has been produced in four, six, and eight inline versions, and in four, six, eight, twelve, sixteen, and twenty four V block versions.

**cubic inches per cylinder**

 

[ToMorrow44]

My 40 year old Detroit Diesels did this, TIB trim = Turbo/Intercooler/Blower

Check out the Banks Pikes Peak Freightliner. Detroit diesel with an 8.3 Whipple feeding into a monster turbo to get it spooled up coming out of corners.

 

[rrrr]

**cubic inches per cylinder**

Oops.



I make up my posts from memory, not Google, and sometimes the synapses misfire.



There's an interesting factoid about the emergency shutdown of the two stroke Detroit Diesel engine. Just ahead of the supercharger air inlet there is a plate valve in the engine intake plumbing. When the emergency stop circuit is activated by human or logic intervention, a solenoid on the plate valve is energized.

The plate valve closes, immediately shutting off intake air to the engine. I can say from my experiences with data center construction this is a pretty wild occurrence.

When a generator with a sixteen cylinder engine running at 1,800 RPM and driving an alternator producing two megawatts connected to a load bank shuts down via the EStop command, the sudden abandoned inertia of the prime mover and alternator cause the generator to make some ~interesting~ movements.

 

[RiverDave]

Volvo Penta has been doing this with their IPS deisels and merc has been doing it with their 1350/1550 race motors for quite a while now

They aren’t doing compound setups?

 

[monkeyswrench]

Production of the turbo supercharged Detroit Diesel Series 71 engine began in 1938. The 71 number refers to the individual cylinder capacity in liters. It has been produced in four, six, and eight inline versions, and in four, six, eight, twelve, sixteen, and twenty four V block versions.

The concept of using a Roots type supercharger for cylinder scavenging in two stroke diesel engines was first utilized late in the 1910 decade. Unlike the use of Roots blowers to increase intake air pressure above ambient conditions in gasoline powered performance applications to boost engine power output, the blower on two stroke diesel engines was used to evacuate post ignition gases in the cylinder. That increased engine efficiency.

The turbocharger was introduced to the two stroke diesel application in the early 1930s. This was done to increase the intake charge pressure above ambient conditions. Combined with the turbocharger, the turbosupercharged Series 71 engine produced significant engine horsepower.

The use of the turbocharger and supercharger to increase intake air pressure coupled with the modern invention of fuel injection by Stuart Hilborn in the 1940s caught the attention of Southern California hot rodders. The rest, as is said, is history.

Being a San Gabriel Valley/SoCal early car guy, Don Blair was my machinist for years when I was young. At the time, I didn't even know he was one of the original SCTA guys, or the Blair's in Pasadena was his. He was just the old-timer up the road.

In 1946, he campaigned the "Blair Special" with his car club, The Gophers. It was a 46 flathead, 3 5/16ths bore with Denver heads. What got the attention of people though, the Mercedes Benz supercharger on top, with 2 Stromberg LZ's. That blower was a close relative of the Italmeccanica which is pretty much a S.Co.T. blower.

As far as diesels go, nothing beats the sound of a screaming 6/71 Jimmy! Nothing like today's smooth running modern things.

 

[farmo83]

Haven't Boostpower been doing the same thing for years? (Decade maybe?)

He's done 7-8 of them. He was working on one built on an 812 Cid going in a schiada when he was working on my boat. I never heard what it made but he was shooting for 4500.

 

[Hoodoo]

I could be wrong but I don’t think that set up has ever been produced. A friend of mine saw it at a show and said the exhaust manifolds were plastic mock ups. Duramaxs have a less than stellar reputation regarding crankshaft breakage, The crank driven charger would only worsen thst situation. He did like the intake/intercooler Banks had though.

 

[Hoodoo]

^^^^ these are in a 40 Baja outlaw in Sarasota

 

[rrrr]

Being a San Gabriel Valley/SoCal early car guy, Don Blair was my machinist for years when I was young. At the time, I didn't even know he was one of the original SCTA guys, or the Blair's in Pasadena was his. He was just the old-timer up the road.

In 1946, he campaigned the "Blair Special" with his car club, The Gophers. It was a 46 flathead, 3 5/16ths bore with Denver heads. What got the attention of people though, the Mercedes Benz supercharger on top, with 2 Stromberg LZ's. That blower was a close relative of the Italmeccanica which is pretty much a S.Co.T. blower.

As far as diesels go, nothing beats the sound of a screaming 6/71 Jimmy! Nothing like today's smooth running modern things.

The accumulated knowledge of guys like Don Blair is slowly fading away. Hot rodders like Blair and Ed Pink made up the backbone of the car culture, and that knowledge produced today's NHRA and other mountains of the motorsports world.

 

[arch stanton]

i drove a 1977 pete 359 dump truck with a Detroit 8 v 92 2 stroke diesel from 1989 to 1998 it was called a silver 92 turbocharged and blown 430 hp was the rated power
in its day long before i bought it it was the big dog but by the 1980s the 3406 a and b model were way better along with the cummins 350 and 400

 

[Taboma]

Production of the turbo supercharged Detroit Diesel Series 71 engine began in 1938. The 71 number refers to the individual cylinder capacity in liters. It has been produced in four, six, and eight inline versions, and in four, six, eight, twelve, sixteen, and twenty four V block versions.

The concept of using a Roots type supercharger for cylinder scavenging in two stroke diesel engines was first utilized late in the 1910 decade. Unlike the use of Roots blowers to increase intake air pressure above ambient conditions in gasoline powered performance applications to boost engine power output, the blower on two stroke diesel engines was used to evacuate post ignition gases in the cylinder. That increased engine efficiency.

The turbocharger was introduced to the two stroke diesel application in the early 1930s. This was done to increase the intake charge pressure above ambient conditions. Combined with the turbocharger, the turbosupercharged Series 71 engine produced significant engine horsepower.

The use of the turbocharger and supercharger to increase intake air pressure coupled with the modern invention of fuel injection by Stuart Hilborn in the 1940s caught the attention of Southern California hot rodders. The rest, as is said, is history.

I'll always fondly recall the sign that was prominently displayed in the LCM engine room.
Warning: In case of Engine Run-away, do not attempt to ascend the ladder.
Assume a prone position and cover your face.
I was in the bilge once during a run-away, longest 10 seconds of my life until the skipper realized it and pulled the big red knob and then all hell broke loose as the engine attempted to devour itself. Fortunately, it didn't scatter, but required a full rebuild.
One of those screaming at an rpm it was never designed to achieve is seriously "Piss yer pants" scary sounding.

 

[Shlbyntro]

They aren’t doing compound setups?

ive seen them in a couple MTIs, maybe somebody isnt leaving well enough alone and going after a little more🫣.

stock volvo ips diesels i can confirm tho.

 

[Shlbyntro]

Oops.



I make up my posts from memory, not Google, and sometimes the synapses misfire.



There's an interesting factoid about the emergency shutdown of the two stroke Detroit Diesel engine. Just ahead of the supercharger air inlet there is a plate valve in the engine intake plumbing. When the emergency stop circuit is activated by human or logic intervention, a solenoid on the plate valve is energized.

The plate valve closes, immediately shutting off intake air to the engine. I can say from my experiences with data center construction this is a pretty wild occurrence.

When a generator with a sixteen cylinder engine running at 1,800 RPM and driving an alternator producing two megawatts connected to a load bank shuts down via the EStop command, the sudden abandoned inertia of the prime mover and alternator cause the generator to make some ~interesting~ movements.

I only know because the only diesel I liked working on was a 50ft searay with twin 6V92s. thing ran like a scolded ape and I got to learn about detroits really fast she would run 41mph unloaded. her identical 2yr younger sister boat that was rigged with caterpillars, I could only ever get to 37mph.

ive heard of and seen some videos of run away detroits, nothing i ever want to be a part of my old Cornwell dealer was a Detroit tech in a previous life lol

 

[welldigger00]

Them old jimmys could start backwards too. If you had an old truck, like juice brakes era trucks, and left it in gear, then said truck rolled backwards, it could start the engine backwards, and smoke would come out the air cleaner…

 

[ka0tyk]

Well that"s cool and all but I think a lot people would be happy if they just fix the emissions shit on diesels they currently sell.

The big positive is banks ability to still produce systems that are carb compliant. A very difficult and VERY expensive task. Only time will tell for how long that’ll last before anything “performance” is just flat out cut off and banned as the push towards electric takes over.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

I could be wrong but I don’t think that set up has ever been produced. A friend of mine saw it at a show and said the exhaust manifolds were plastic mock ups. Duramaxs have a less than stellar reputation regarding crankshaft breakage, The crank driven charger would only worsen thst situation. He did like the intake/intercooler Banks had though. View attachment 1189439 View attachment 1189440 View attachment 1189442

I believe Gale has a fix for the Duramax crank issues. I can’t remember if he had a Callie’s or someone did one to his specs but I thought he came out with a beefed up one for his builds/tests.

 

[Gelcoater]

The big positive is banks ability to still produce systems that are carb compliant. A very difficult and VERY expensive task. Only time will tell for how long that’ll last before anything “performance” is just flat out cut off and banned as the push towards electric takes over.

Been thinking about a couple of upgrades, despite Joe’s jihad against Banks, I’ll most likely go that route.
Carb legal, and no greasy deals with the smog “guy$” and fairly reliable.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I'll always fondly recall the sign that was prominently displayed in the LCM engine room.
Warning: In case of Engine Run-away, do not attempt to ascend the ladder.
Assume a prone position and cover your face.
I was in the bilge once during a run-away, longest 10 seconds of my life until the skipper realized it and pulled the big red knob and then all hell broke loose as the engine attempted to devour itself. Fortunately, it didn't scatter, but required a full rebuild.
One of those screaming at an rpm it was never designed to achieve is seriously "Piss yer pants" scary sounding.

About 5 years ago I was working in the yard at a shop in town. There were several shops on the street, including 1 now defunct diesel shop.

I hear a diesel fire up cold, and then spool up like nothing I've ever heard! It just kept winding, I have no clue what it reached, but it was terminal. The racket it proceeded to make after sounded akin to jack hammers in a cement truck...then there was silence...followed by the owner of the shop cursing everyone on God's green earth. I could hear him pretty well, even from 300 yards!

The story came out later, the motor install was a fresh long block from Cat. No one thought to diagnose what the previous killer was, nor clean out the mess. When they stripped it back down, the intercooler was dripping oil. Something pushed out oil seals or something on the compressor side of the turbo, and turned the oil into fuel in the intake track. Apparently, it was close to a 20k screw up.

I've seen on tractor pullers, big modified Cummins stuff, they put a flapper on the intake. I assume it's like the EStops you and @rrrr mentioned. They usually have like a hood pull lever for the driver.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I’ll just say, I’d cut a hole in the hood of my 2500 for this setup.

 

[jeteater1]

Being a San Gabriel Valley/SoCal early car guy, Don Blair was my machinist for years when I was young. At the time, I didn't even know he was one of the original SCTA guys, or the Blair's in Pasadena was his. He was just the old-timer up the road.

In 1946, he campaigned the "Blair Special" with his car club, The Gophers. It was a 46 flathead, 3 5/16ths bore with Denver heads. What got the attention of people though, the Mercedes Benz supercharger on top, with 2 Stromberg LZ's. That blower was a close relative of the Italmeccanica which is pretty much a S.Co.T. blower.

As far as diesels go, nothing beats the sound of a screaming 6/71 Jimmy! Nothing like today's smooth running modern things.

My dads friends Car . Motor built by Don Blair .

 

[mjc]

Being a San Gabriel Valley/SoCal early car guy, Don Blair was my machinist for years when I was young. At the time, I didn't even know he was one of the original SCTA guys, or the Blair's in Pasadena was his. He was just the old-timer up the road.

In 1946, he campaigned the "Blair Special" with his car club, The Gophers. It was a 46 flathead, 3 5/16ths bore with Denver heads. What got the attention of people though, the Mercedes Benz supercharger on top, with 2 Stromberg LZ's. That blower was a close relative of the Italmeccanica which is pretty much a S.Co.T. blower.

As far as diesels go, nothing beats the sound of a screaming 6/71 Jimmy! Nothing like today's smooth running modern things.

Nothing sound like a Detroit diesel running.

 

[RiverDave]

I could be wrong but I don’t think that set up has ever been produced. A friend of mine saw it at a show and said the exhaust manifolds were plastic mock ups. Duramaxs have a less than stellar reputation regarding crankshaft breakage, The crank driven charger would only worsen thst situation. He did like the intake/intercooler Banks had though. View attachment 1189439 View attachment 1189440 View attachment 1189442

This is the story behind the initial pic it is from 2012

#tbt 2012: Banks ran successful tests on a pair of twin-charged GM Duramax-based military marine engines off the coast of San Diego, CA. The test boat was equipped with two of the specially built Duramax experimental prototype engines, each equipped with a supercharger and a twin-turbo configuration, positioned side by side (that equals a total of two superchargers and four turbochargers!) and churning out more than 800hp/1000tq. The combined powerplant with both engines was 1,600hp/2,000tq. This pair of engines were tuned and built for an experimental military platform in a marine environment. Performance coupled with reliability and durability is the name of the game. They're designed and tested to go wide open throttle for long periods of time. While we're not permitted to reveal what use these boats were destined for, these engines were designed and built to get on plane quickly and hold peak power at 4,200 RPM for an extended period. Side note: We also tested Cummins engines for this project. After a few hundred hours at WOT, the engine suffered an internal failure at the top of the water jacket. This was no longer an issue after switching to a CGI block. Ultimately, the V-8 Duramax was chosen for this project thanks to its size, weight, and other factors.

 

[DRYHEAT]

I'll always fondly recall the sign that was prominently displayed in the LCM engine room.
Warning: In case of Engine Run-away, do not attempt to ascend the ladder.
Assume a prone position and cover your face.
I was in the bilge once during a run-away, longest 10 seconds of my life until the skipper realized it and pulled the big red knob and then all hell broke loose as the engine attempted to devour itself. Fortunately, it didn't scatter, but required a full rebuild.
One of those screaming at an rpm it was never designed to achieve is seriously "Piss yer pants" scary sounding.

About 5 years ago I was working in the yard at a shop in town. There were several shops on the street, including 1 now defunct diesel shop.

I hear a diesel fire up cold, and then spool up like nothing I've ever heard! It just kept winding, I have no clue what it reached, but it was terminal. The racket it proceeded to make after sounded akin to jack hammers in a cement truck...then there was silence...followed by the owner of the shop cursing everyone on God's green earth. I could hear him pretty well, even from 300 yards!

The story came out later, the motor install was a fresh long block from Cat. No one thought to diagnose what the previous killer was, nor clean out the mess. When they stripped it back down, the intercooler was dripping oil. Something pushed out oil seals or something on the compressor side of the turbo, and turned the oil into fuel in the intake track. Apparently, it was close to a 20k screw up.

I've seen on tractor pullers, big modified Cummins stuff, they put a flapper on the intake. I assume it's like the EStops you and @rrrr mentioned. They usually have like a hood pull lever for the driver.

It does change one’s perspective on life when you’re standing between the frame rail, a steer tire and an engine that is accelerating out of control. I was working at a diesel fuel injection shop at the time, fortunately, I was able to stick my finger in and manipulate the fuel rack to the shut off position. I figured it was a win. I didn’t blow up the engine. I didn’t soil myself, and I learned never to do that again.

 

[Your ad here]

It does change one’s perspective on life when you’re standing between the frame rail, a steer tire and an engine that is accelerating out of control. I was working at a diesel fuel injection shop at the time, fortunately, I was able to stick my finger in and manipulate the fuel rack to the shut off position. I figured it was a win. I didn’t blow up the engine. I didn’t soil myself, and I learned never to do that again.

I learned something the easy way. Was watching youtube, guys were torquing the flywheel bolts on a 12 valve cummins. Mentioned to be on alert because there have been cases were fuel has leaked into the cylinder from an injector and rotating the crankshaft can create enough heat to make that cylinder fire, with the fuel rack off.
Also make sure to have a block of wood to cover the intake if you suspect a potential run away situation. Don't use your hand! Yet to experience this but I don't want to ever start a 2 stroke Detroit that has sat for 2+ years without having the governor cleaned.

 

[rivermobster]

Been thinking about a couple of upgrades, despite Joe’s jihad against Banks, I’ll most likely go that route.
Carb legal, and no greasy deals with the smog “guy$” and fairly reliable.

I'll tell you what I know, not a story I heard...

When I worked for BMW, it was around the corner from JMS Racing, when JMS was in Monrovia. One day after work, I go over there for a visit, and Mike is in the dyno room watching some guys who don't speak English. There is some crazy looking engine on the dyno...

What in the fuck is that?????????

It's a Izusu (Duramax) with a Funky looking intake that the turbo is mounted DIRECTLY to. It's a one off deal that Started at Gale Banks shop. The owner was a boat guy, and wanted to put two Izusu's in his off shore boat. He contracted with Banks to do it, and Banks basically dropped the ball, but the project Was partially done.

Keep in mind this was maybe 15 or 20 years ago? I really don't remember exactly. So anyhow....

The owner got fed up with waiting for Banks to deliver on the engines. He flew out from back east, talked to Mike at JMS about bringing it there, and then went to Banks to chat with the guy who had actually been developing the engines. Apparently he made "the guy" and offer he couldn't refuse and the guy quit GB and went to work directly for boat owner. The custom machine work was finished up at JMS, and they got some guys from an EFI shop in Germany to provide the electronics for the engine.

The day I showed up, they were Trying to get it running. They built the harness from scratch in the dyno room, it looked like a freaking snake pit in there!!! lol

Eventually, the engine came to life. It put out a ridiculous amount of torque on the dyno, and no boost was even being developed yet!

Once it was running and tuned, they took their projects and headed back east, to install the engines in the owners boat.

Last I heard? Both engines had broken the cranks! Shocker eh??

Gale, when he was on San Gabriel Blvd, tuned the first Real engine I ever built. 406FE in my 67 Mustang. It ran like a freaking raped ape. This was in 1975, the year I graduated from HS.

He is defiantly good at what he does IF he feels like doing it.

And he defiantly charges a premium, for his name on the box.