FAA quietly expands pilot EKG parameters…

[Roosky01]

This is kind of a long read, but gives me the not so warm and fuzzies about hopping planes from here on out…

The FAA has very quietly tacitly admitted that the EKGs of pilots are no longer normal. We should be concerned. Very concerned.

After the vaccine rolled out, the FAA secretly widened the EKG parameter range for pilots so they wouldn't be grounded. It looks like the vax gave at least 50M Americans heart damage.

open.substack.com

 

[monkeyswrench]

And now we see why the Davos people were looking for unvaxed pilots...

 

[MPHSystems]

what else are we going to find out?

 

[Racey]

what else are we going to find out?

"Just wait... you'll see"

 

[spectra3279]

Damned conspiracy theories

 

[wzuber]

"Just wait... you'll see"

have you seen the Nepal plane crash video??? hmmmmmmm

 

[spectras only]

Of course wikipedia, discrediting Kirsch. We'll see what will unfold in the not too distant future about the jab. Glad I didn't take it. I do wonder about the flight cancellations out of the blue, right before holiday travel too. Pilots retiring in droves, maybe some didn't pass recent medicals by airlines? Definitely not planning to fly anytime anywhere soon.

FAQs on Use of COVID-19 Vaccines by Pilots and Air Traffic Controllers | Federal Aviation Administration

What pilot duties or activities are specifically prohibited during the post-vaccination 48-hour observation period?

www.faa.gov

• In the event that an FAA medical certificate holder experiences side effects after the 48-hour period has elapsed, the medical certificate holder may not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required
• flight crew member as described at 14 CFR § 61.53(a) for the duration of the symptoms.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I guess when you are a hammer every problem looks like a nail. The FAA Aeromedical branch has been working for decades now to keep pilots that have had coronary events in the cockpit. The hoops these pilots have to jump through are truly astounding in order to keep their flying privileges. If the FAA is making it a bit easier on the airmen then I'm all for it.

But hey, it's all about the jab...

 

[DB / HAV]

As I sit at LAX…

 

[monkeyswrench]

I guess when you are a hammer every problem looks like a nail. The FAA Aeromedical branch has been working for decades now to keep pilots that have had coronary events in the cockpit. The hoops these pilots have to jump through are truly astounding in order to keep their flying privileges. If the FAA is making it a bit easier on the airmen then I'm all for it.

But hey, it's all about the jab...

You didn't read the article I assume? It would be one thing to simply modify the test, to allow more pilots to fly. It is quite another to see the change in ekg printouts, starting at a certain time, and then change the tests allowable results.

I know three commercial pilots...the three I know aren't exactly Mr.Fitness USA types. Probably not in bad shape for being around 50, but nothing near great.

 

[mjc]

I have a retired Delta pilot neighbor and will ask what he knows about it.

 

[wzuber]

Of course wikipedia, discrediting Kirsch. We'll see what will unfold in the not too distant future about the jab. Glad I didn't take it. I do wonder about the flight cancellations out of the blue, right before holiday travel too. Pilots retiring in droves, maybe some didn't pass recent medicals by airlines? Definitely not planning to fly anytime anywhere soon.

FAQs on Use of COVID-19 Vaccines by Pilots and Air Traffic Controllers | Federal Aviation Administration

What pilot duties or activities are specifically prohibited during the post-vaccination 48-hour observation period?

www.faa.gov

• In the event that an FAA medical certificate holder experiences side effects after the 48-hour period has elapsed, the medical certificate holder may not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required
• flight crew member as described at 14 CFR § 61.53(a) for the duration of the symptoms.

According my friend who flies commercially and is in AF reserves many/most pilots are retiring from both comm. & AF aviation due the forcing of the jab. They're say'g F that n F u....I'm out. He was able to get a religous exemption so he's still flying. Do to the FJB admin and the jab bs he says recruitments are way down and peeps are bailing on military careers and it's setting us up for a big problem in commercial aviation. Due to the flight training requerments in comm. Av. (Aka seat time $$$) the military is a major supplier of our pilots. Where else are you going to get access to flying these big ass planes for the hundreds of hours required for training alone? It's possible but the cost to do so are insane and very few can/will afford it.. imagine the hourly opperating costs involved to go RENT a 727, 747 etc. (Bssic examples) for hundreds of hours in 1 let alone multiple diff. Types of comm. aircraft like that. The military is our comm. Aviation pilot training system. When peeps stop enlisting as they are now we are headed for a real problem.....buckle up.

 

[Icky]

As I sit at LAX…

I'm flying today out of ONT

 

[wzuber]

I'm flying today out of ONT

Good luck....have a great flight...your still in good hands. These pilots are smart and reponsible people. Their lives depend on that plane just as much as yours and everyone elses.....

 

[DRYHEAT]

According my friend who flies commercially and is in AF reserves many/most pilots are retiring from both comm. & AF aviation due the forcing of the jab. They're say'g F that n F u....I'm out. He was able to get a religous exemption so he's still flying. Do to the FJB admin and the jab bs he says recruitments are way down and peeps are bailing on military careers and it's setting us up for a big problem in commercial aviation. Due to the flight training requerments in comm. Av. (Aka seat time $$$) the military is a major supplier of our pilots. Where else are you going to get access to flying these big ass planes for the hundreds of hours required for training alone? It's possible but the cost to do so are insane and very few can/will afford it.. imagine the hourly opperating costs involved to go RENT a 727, 747 etc. (Bssic examples) for hundreds of hours in 1 let alone multiple diff. Types of comm. aircraft like that. The military is our comm. Aviation pilot training system. When peeps stop enlisting as they are now we are headed for a real problem.....buckle up.

Airlines have their own training programs now for young pilots with little experience. You don’t go right into flying airliners, but a young pilot can work his way up and get the experience, flying freighters and small commuter aircraft as a second seat. I have a friend whose son is doing this, real bright kid, and he takes that shit serious.

 

[mesquito_creek]

As a student pilot who flys a couple times a week I can tell you the student pilot and training programs are flooded with active students… Glendale airport denied t and g entries the last 6 try’s due to full pattern. I haven’t flow with less than 3 planes on the pattern at KDVT since I can last recall.

We might need more pilots but that’s not due to desire it because we don’t have enough trainers/planes and airports. The cost is crazy high and that hasn’t deterred anyone that I can see.

Every single non controlled strip between phx and Tucson is the same… it’s crazy up there. I had very little relief at the havasu airport, I was holding short there for a couple planes before I could leave on a Tuesday morning around 11 am.

 

[Cobalt232]

I just had my annual last week with an EKG. The doctor's office had recently gotten new equipment and the EKG machine wasn't a machine anymore. It was just a bunch of cords plugged into a USB port on a computer. The computer also read the results. No paper printout. Pretty cool.

My daughters boyfriend is currently working his way up in flight school. Doing his instrument now at a flight school at Palomar. Biggest problem he has had is getting flight time with available aircraft. A friend of his and our family recently upgraded to the right seat of a Challenger. The problem they are having is getting FO's so the current FO's can move to the left seat.

 

[dread Pirate]

Just yesterday a guy had a heart attack and drove his car into a group of high school kids killing one of them. My boys knew them,,,,

What happens when truck drivers start dying behind the wheel?

 

[530RL]

I guess when you are a hammer every problem looks like a nail. The FAA Aeromedical branch has been working for decades now to keep pilots that have had coronary events in the cockpit. The hoops these pilots have to jump through are truly astounding in order to keep their flying privileges. If the FAA is making it a bit easier on the airmen then I'm all for it.

But hey, it's all about the jab...

An AME has at least since 2004 been allowed to issue all classes of medical for an AV block, if no other symptoms were present. Even the article points that out when they attach the old guide to examiners.

If anything the new guide as presented in the article is more stringent as it requires a deferral to Oklahoma for intervals greater than 300 when previously the AME could issue.



The headline of a section in the article does also make me a little suspicious.

"Why we sure it was the vaccine that did it"​

In any event, the premise of the article is completely wrong. The criteria became tougher as previously the AME could issue for any PR interval and now must defer for intervals greater than 300 MS.

 

[wzuber]

Just yesterday a guy had a heart attack and drove his car into a group of high school kids killing one of them. My boys knew them,,,,

What happens when truck drivers start dying behind the wheel?

Well, lets hope they were some of the most resistant to being forced into the jab. What else we gunna dooo?

 

[MPHSystems]

"Just wait... you'll see"

No clot shot for me.

I'm part of the control group. Your welcome.

 

[spectra3279]

I guess when you are a hammer every problem looks like a nail. The FAA Aeromedical branch has been working for decades now to keep pilots that have had coronary events in the cockpit. The hoops these pilots have to jump through are truly astounding in order to keep their flying privileges. If the FAA is making it a bit easier on the airmen then I'm all for it.

But hey, it's all about the jab...

Do you want your pilot falling onto the controls dead? Seems seems the risk is higher after the jab verses normal reasons. Plus the number of people falling dead from heart problem with no recent history of any issues.

 

[spectra3279]

Good luck....have a great flight...your still in good hands. These pilots are smart and reponsible people. Their lives depend on that plane just as much as yours and everyone elses.....

Except that pilot that shows up early to have a few drinks at the airport bar

 

[Redneckpilot]

Shocking ….. slippery slope this one is! There were several of pilots with the mind set that there duty as captain is to keep there passengers safe therefore im getting the vaccine! (Great excuse). Yes that would be correct to keep your pax safe, would be to not put something non-fda approved into your system!

Pilots Sue FAA For Violation of Policies - Real America's Voice News

Real America's Voice News is your one stop news and entertainment network.

americasvoice.news

 

[monkeyswrench]

Question from a non-flying person: The co-pilot has the same training as the pilot, correct? I assume if a pilot is out of commission, the co-pilot could land the plane.
I'd feel bad for the pilot, but I think everyone is still in capable hands.

 

[wallnutz]

Question from a non-flying person: The co-pilot has the same training as the pilot, correct? I assume if a pilot is out of commission, the co-pilot could land the plane.
I'd feel bad for the pilot, but I think everyone is still in capable hands.

Not if they have the fish for dinner.

 

[Danger Dave]

Question from a non-flying person: The co-pilot has the same training as the pilot, correct? I assume if a pilot is out of commission, the co-pilot could land the plane.

Well, usually. Unless it's China Air, or Saudi hi-jackers.

 

[Redneckpilot]

https://

Question from a non-flying person: The co-pilot has the same training as the pilot, correct? I assume if a pilot is out of commission, the co-pilot could land the plane.
I'd feel bad for the pilot, but I think everyone is still in capable

Question from a non-flying person: The co-pilot has the same training as the pilot, correct? I assume if a pilot is out of commission, the co-pilot could land the plane.
I'd feel bad for the pilot, but I think everyone is still in capable hands.

Question from a non-flying person: The co-pilot has the same training as the pilot, correct? I assume if a pilot is out of commission, the co-pilot could land the plane.
I'd feel bad for the pilot, but I think everyone is still in capable hands.

Yep 100% correct…and thats why theres 2 up front!

 

[wzuber]

Redundancy in an aeroplane is guuuud thang..
Order drinks 2 at a time....just in case..haha

 

[wzuber]

Except that pilot that shows up early to have a few drinks at the airport bar

Well, I guess there is that. I'd wager these days there's too many karens out there to get away with it much any more, or for very long....
At least that's what I tell my wife b4 flying....ha

 

[propcheck]

I guess when you are a hammer every problem looks like a nail. The FAA Aeromedical branch has been working for decades now to keep pilots that have had coronary events in the cockpit. The hoops these pilots have to jump through are truly astounding in order to keep their flying privileges. If the FAA is making it a bit easier on the airmen then I'm all for it.

But hey, it's all about the jab...

Yes because when you are talking about the competency of an individual who holds the fate of others in his hands we should always be looking for ways to lower the standards
I agree not everything is about the vax but lowering standards so a substandard employee can qualify is never i solid plan.

 

[wzuber]

My buddy says these things are so redundant, automated and easy to fly their boring. On long flights it can b a challenge to stay awake especially when they get tired from longer trips of a full flight schedule over many days. He has a very strong workout regimin to help him deal w/it.

 

[Redneckpilot]

Well, usually. Unless it's China Air, or

Except that pilot that shows up early to have a few drinks at the airport bar

 

[wzuber]

Is the George Bush in the back right w/pilots hat on?

 

[530RL]

Yes because when you are talking about the competency of an individual who holds the fate of others in his hands we should always be looking for ways to lower the standards
I agree not everything is about the vax but lowering standards so a substandard employee can qualify is never i solid plan.

This change tightened medical standards.

Previously any PR interval could be approved by an AME.

Now an AME must defer back to the FAA with a PR interval in excess of 300 MS.

If the jab is as bad as some have argued, this change will end more careers as more pilot medicals will be deferred keeping them out of the cockpit.

 

[Redneckpilot]

This change tightened medical standards.

Previously any PR interval could be approved by an AME.

Now an AME must defer back to the FAA with a PR interval in excess of 300 MS.

If the jab is as bad as some have argued, this change will end more careers as more pilot medicals will be deferred keeping them out of the cockpit.

And the un-sustainable pay rates will continue to climb and our shortage will worsen

 

[Roosky01]

By chance, do we have any Doc's on here that administer flight medicals that could chime in?

For myself, as a Dr. of breast admiration only, I am not qualified to speak, but I have the following-

This was taken from the AOPA website today...

From what I understand, the measurement very recently stated LESS than 200ms and 200ms or MORE and was changed to what it currently states in the above as shown? If true, why the change or "loosening" of the parameters? Is it because we are experiencing more pilots with arrhythmia (or worse arrhythmia?) for whatever the reason or are we currently in a period of pilot shortage and they are allowing more pilots to fly that may have previously been grounded medically?

Either way, the FAA could easily put out the reason and explain the timing of the change and end the speculation. Right now, their silence on this is just fueling speculation and is rather suspect, IMO.

 

[530RL]

By chance, do we have any Doc's on here that administer flight medicals that could chime in?

For myself, as a Dr. of breast admiration only, I am not qualified to speak, but I have the following-

This was taken from the AOPA website today...

View attachment 1190312

From what I understand, the measurement very recently stated LESS than 200ms and 200ms or MORE and was changed to what it currently states in the above as shown? If true, why the change or "loosening" of the parameters? Is it because we are experiencing more pilots with arrhythmia (or worse arrhythmia?) for whatever the reason or are we currently in a period of pilot shortage and they are allowing more pilots to fly that may have previously been grounded medically?

Either way, the FAA could easily put out the reason and explain the timing of the change and end the speculation. Right now, their silence on this is just fueling speculation and is rather suspect, IMO.

Look at the article where it shows the previous standard that had no limit on PR interval where the AME could issue. Only one standard which was first degree AV block and no other symptoms. There was no MS standard of 200MS.

Now it has two standards. Less than 300ms and greater.

I’m not an AME but go through this every year with my cardiovascular special Issuance. So I understand it very well.

This was a tightening of the standard by adding the 300 MS standard. Not a lessening.

 

[Roosky01]

Look at the article where it shows the previous standard that had no limit on PR interval where the AME could issue. Only one standard which was first degree AV block and no other symptoms.

Now it has two standards. Less than 300ms and greater.

I’m not an AME but go through this every year with my cardiovascular special Issuance. So I understand it very well.

Copy. So something triggered the rule change? I'm just curious to what that is? I'm sure we all are since this has kinda blown up the last few days.

 

[530RL]

Copy. So something triggered the rule change? I'm just curious to what that is? I'm sure we all are since this has kinda blown up the last few days.

No idea.

My experience is that as a government bureaucracy they mean well but simply suck.

Nothing to do with safety of flight but with papering files for perceived risk.

Like new city rules for building codes. Rarely makes any practical sense. Especially in this case were those subject to ECG’s fly in commercial applications with two pilots.

But to the article, it is just factually wrong as the change was a tightening of the standards.

 

[Danger Dave]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615582465615335424

 

[OLDRAAT]

Mike says it's all good

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Don't worry about the pilot having a heart attack, The FAA just picked up a bunch of these for all the airlines.

 

[MeCasa16]

And the un-sustainable pay rates will continue to climb and our shortage will worsen

What do you mean by un-sustainable pay rates?

 

[Redneckpilot]

What do you mean by un-sustainable pay rates?

when you have regional airlines paying upwards of $400/hr for Check Airmen and 100K sign-on bonuses makes ya wonder!

 

[DRYHEAT]

when you have regional airlines paying upwards of $400/hr for Check Airmen and 100K sign-on bonuses makes ya wonder!

Now you’ve peaked my curiosity, what is it a Check Airman, I’m thinking about a career change.

 

[mesquito_creek]

when you have regional airlines paying upwards of $400/hr for Check Airmen and 100K sign-on bonuses makes ya wonder!

When someone invests 100-150k in training, rentals and thousands of hours at poverty wages to be ready… why wouldn’t you expect them to get paid what the market demand?

Ed Bastian ceo of delta makes 13 million a year.. that’s about $6,300 an hour.

BTW I have no dog in this fight, I am just a mid 50 year old recreational student… only desire is to get where I want to be faster than a car.

 

[Redneckpilot]

When someone invests 100-150k in training, rentals and thousands of hours at poverty wages to be ready… why wouldn’t you expect them to get paid what the market demands?

100%! trust me I'm reaping the benefits of it all finally and definitely not complaining one bit! been there went through it all at the regional airlines back in 2007! 17K year 1 pay was a joke!

 

[wzuber]

Now you’ve peaked my curiosity, what is it a Check Airman, I’m thinking about a career change.

 

[wzuber]

Now you’ve peaked my curiosity, what is it a Check Airman, I’m thinking about a career change.