Diesel Truck "Tunes" costing seller $3 million in EPA fines

[Wolskis]

From Environmentalcompliancealert.com

 

[LazyLavey]

Fuk.....

They're hitting hard and making examples out of the few they get...And its brutal

 

[mjc]

Going to have to get HP tuners and get the info to do it yourself.

 

[attitude]

I talked to one of my diesel buddies and he said Kory Willis is heavily disliked in the diesel community. Apparently he like to promote how much coal he could make trucks roll which brought a lot of attention from the EPA and now they are cracking down on all tuners.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Mine is getting done this week. In Alabama the resale value of the truck goes up when its been deleted. I am not asking any questions, local shop owner does it but he does it at home, no ties to the shop, all cash.

 

[Xring01]

Crap like this, will destroy the aftermarket tuner industry. Because the risk is not worth the reward…

 

[Cole Trickle]

They are going after everyone.....

Some are settling for huge sums and scrapping the product line and all illegal skews before it goes to court.

Not EO certified stuff is going to go away quick. The fines are way more than the sales of said products.

 

[D19]

Same PPE that was off the 57 and Orangethorpe?

I wonder if disabling AFM is next. I did that on my last and current GM gaser. Nerarly impossible to get programmers/tuners in CA. I had to ship to river and have the neighbor grab it off the porch.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Diesel emission rules are rules I agree with . The diesel industry is going through teething pains just like gas did . Gas engines run great with current emissions controls . I HATE getting behind ANY deleted vehicle , pickups , 18 wheelers , buses etc . Plus the asshats that like to roll coal at people .

 

[JL95]

Same PPE that was off the 57 and Orangethorpe?

I wonder if disabling AFM is next. I did that on my last and current GM gaser. Nerarly impossible to get programmers/tuners in CA. I had to ship to river and have the neighbor grab it off the porch.

That was PPE, Kory is PPEI

 

[Backlash]

I like how it states the "Estimated" amount of pollutants was sufficient for a lawsuit and punitive damages. How about he pays an "Estimated" 3 million?

How can you accurately determine the weight of pollutants that said tuner expelled, or caused to be expelled, into the atmosphere? How was that amount determined? Was it weighed? If not, how did the amount become estimated? Like the guy or not, this sounds like a bullshit ruling to me.

 

[Wicky]

The libs think rolling coal is bad...just wait until the lithiums start making splashdown in all the local lakes and off the coast. The new silent delete, if you will.

 

[D19]

I like how it states the "Estimated" amount of pollutants was sufficient for a lawsuit and punitive damages. How about he pays an "Estimated" 3 million?

How can you accurately determine the weight of pollutants that said tuner expelled, or caused to be expelled, into the atmosphere? How was that amount determined? Was it weighed? If not, how did the amount become estimated? Like the guy or not, this sounds like a bullshit ruling to me.

Same "scientific formulas" they use for global warning. They pull the numbers out of their butts.

 

[DoughBallin14]

Kory Willis (PPEI) and family is loaded and definitely doesn’t care about the fine. This is older news anyways. He was originally fined about 2 years ago and shrugged it off in a settlement that was pennies compared to the original fine. Then he turns around and basically buys Inglewood Trans from a deal with Mike

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Diesel emission rules are rules I agree with . The diesel industry is going through teething pains just like gas did . Gas engines run great with current emissions controls . I HATE getting behind ANY deleted vehicle , pickups , 18 wheelers , buses etc . Plus the asshats that like to roll coal at people .

A deleted HD personal truck doesnt have to roll coal as they say to run without DEF, thats just the asshat driving it and having it cranked up to 10. Ive driven the same truck as mine, 16 cummins, and it blows some smoke when pinned, but otherwise it really isnt even noticeable. Its the same guys who roll around town with the tow mirrors flipped up on their Ram trucks that are the issue.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Diesel emission rules are rules I agree with . The diesel industry is going through teething pains just like gas did . Gas engines run great with current emissions controls . I HATE getting behind ANY deleted vehicle , pickups , 18 wheelers , buses etc . Plus the asshats that like to roll coal at people .

I think you may be shocked at how many diesels you've been behind that were "tuned", and didn't know it. The difference between modern gas powered emissions controls and modern diesel emissions are night and day. Most gas powered vehicles are cleaner buy tuning and mechanical efficiency. Really amazing stuff. Diesels, they seem to be limited on those parameters. They try to fix it buy adding filters and chemicals to the fuel stream.
I'm not smart enough to know the answers. Gasoline's lack of torque is the biggest issue I feel. If a company built a V8 hybrid, maybe they could get the torque required and meet cafe standards. The problem then comes with the cost.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

I think you may be shocked at how many diesels you've been behind that were "tuned", and didn't know it. The difference between modern gas powered emissions controls and modern diesel emissions are night and day. Most gas powered vehicles are cleaner buy tuning and mechanical efficiency. Really amazing stuff. Diesels, they seem to be limited on those parameters. They try to fix it buy adding filters and chemicals to the fuel stream.
I'm not smart enough to know the answers. Gasoline's lack of torque is the biggest issue I feel. If a company built a V8 hybrid, maybe they could get the torque required and meet cafe standards. The problem then comes with the cost.

Yea , that’s fine , but when my eyes start to water at an intersection , or at a drive through, I don’t like it .

 

[FROGMAN524]

Kory Willis (PPEI) and family is loaded and definitely doesn’t care about the fine. This is older news anyways. He was originally fined about 2 years ago and shrugged it off in a settlement that was pennies compared to the original fine. Then he turns around and basically buys Inglewood Trans from a deal with Mike

I don't think he bought Inglewood from Mike that was Evan at Limitless.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Yea , that’s fine , but when my eyes start to water at an intersection , or at a drive through, I don’t like it .

I agree with not trying to kill others. Unburnt fuel is wasted fuel. The burning of your eyes can be anything from fuel pressure, timing or pulse width, to a bad injector pissing...and a lot of dimwitts will bump tune and fuel, and replace injectors about the time they torch a piston.
There are ways to make power and not roll coal, or have people's eyes on fire. The problem is most don't want to invest the time and money. The install someone else's file, and call it good.

 

[bocco]

Speaking of rolling coal. A couple of weeks ago I watched some young California redneck with a hole in his hood for the exhaust to stick through. Sitting at a light he produce enough black smoke that you almost couldn't see his truck. I would think a cop could site him just based on the visual.

 

[scottchbrite]

Yea , that’s fine , but when my eyes start to water at an intersection , or at a drive through, I don’t like it .

Most likely you were behind an LB7 Duramax that had a set of injectors going bad.

mine are starting to get bad again, bone stock truck too.

 

[185EZ]

Maybe wrong but still frickin funny

 

[monkeyswrench]

Most likely you were behind an LB7 Duramax that had a set of injectors going bad.

mine are starting to get bad again, bone stock truck too.

They aren't going bad. Your truck just magically makes oil

 

[scottchbrite]

They aren't going bad. Your truck just magically makes oil

They’re starting to smoke when it idles for a while. It’s not leaking inside yet. I’m hesitant to do them because I want to swap the motor for a later model.

 

[spectra3279]

So we don't own our vehicles after we buy them now

 

[spectra3279]

Maybe wrong but still frickin funny

I used to do this on Trabuco canyon road. God I miss my old 95 dodge

 

[81Sprint]

Can't convince me that making trucks run DEF with the added packaging, manufacturing and waste (plastic containers) that goes with it is better for the environment. Someone is getting a kick back somewhere.

 

[OkHallett270]

By design a Diesel engine is more efficient than a gas engine all day. I disagree with this tuning smack down. I see this a powergrab and an excuse to establish more bullshit laws that (don’t) fix bullshit problems. The DEF fluid modern diesels need is an easy way for manufacturers to save money on making the converters. To build a converter that will catalyze diesel exhaust is costly requiring lots of precious metals to make. The DEF fluid based systems reduce that cost by limiting the amount of precious metals needed to make the catalyst efficient. They use the chemical reaction of the fluid to supplement the process. When the chemical has burned out the modern diesel computer will inject more cat piss and start the process all over. You would think this might save the American people money, but no… we pay for the systems and there’s a whole new cat piss mining industry now that we pay for as well. The DPF filter has a sole purpose in life. It catches all the exhaust soot from the combustion process. If you see anything coming from the tail pipe on a non deleted diesel. The DPF is busted. It sometimes costs upwards of 5 to 8 grand to fix the system. This stuff is all very costly and is terrible for upstream Diesel engine components. Turbochargers, injection pumps, injectors are all stressed by this system. It traps a ton of heat. Especially when the systems start to go south. I think rolling coal is stupid myself. However, I’m sick of the government telling Americans we are the problem. I think we do more for air emissions in this country than every other country on the face of the planet. The American people are footing the bill for everyone else’s problem. The government is finding new ways to fine us and jail us for non compliance everyday. It’s almost like they want to smash out American small businesses altogether. I see hotrodding is an all American pastime. The black soot you see coming out a diesel tailpipe will fall to the ground. I don’t see how it’s possible for it to contaminate the air. It’s stupid to me to make your truck chug as much back smoke as possible but I’m also not into low riders or Japanese imports. To each their own. As far as NOX goes. Yes deleting the SCR/DPF system increases NOX. NOX is the chemical everyone blamed for the hole in the ozone layer that supposedly was getting bigger by the minute in the 70s and 80s and guess what it’s a byproduct of every combustion process, even all those hobo trash can fires in the cities where these laws and rules are made up. What’s going on with that hole in the ozone anyway? Where the proof this stuff is destroying our planet. Weren’t we all supposed to be burned up by the sun by now? Then wasn’t there supposed to be a second ice age in the mid 80s and the whales were all drowning? What’s next? Lake Powell and lake mead will end up dry??? Oh yeah… damn too late on that too. I’ll continue to drive my gas engine trucks because I can’t justify the expense of maintaining a modern diesel for no more than I pull a big trailer. But overall I think it’s a bunch of bullshit what Uncle Sam has his hands in these days.

 

[spectra3279]

Can't convince me that making trucks run DEF with the added packaging, manufacturing and waste (plastic containers) that goes with it is better for the environment. Someone is getting a kick back somewhere.

I want to know why piss? Who in their right mind says I want to make something out of piss that people have to use?

 

[OkHallett270]

I want to know why piss? Who in their right mind says I want to make something out of piss that people have to use?

Well I mean technically it’s not actually piss, but it’s a urea based fluid and urea is commonly found in piss. I feel like it’s a backhanded way for the government to make sure you know where you stand with them. Lol

 

[floatn turd]

Maybe wrong but still frickin funny

One of my all time favorites.
I fucking HATE peddlers!!!

 

[DoughBallin14]

I don't think he bought Inglewood from Mike that was Evan at Limitless.

Ah yes your right. I was at Mikes shop getting mine serviced and he was talking about Kory not caring about the fines because they were loaded and ppei would make that money back in a couple weeks based on parts orders and tuning.
I think i got mixed up with mike saying he was trying to by inglewood a few times

 

[rivermobster]

So we don't own our vehicles after we buy them now

In CA, it's been illegal to mess with any factory emissions system since 1974!!!



All these guys doing "tunes" have been knowinging doing this in full violation of the law since day one.

It was just a matter of time.

With that being said...

They will have to pry my Superchips Tuner from my cold dead hands.

 

[TimeBandit]

I never liked being behind an old two stroke diesel school bus, an eye watering event every time. It seems that has all stopped, finally.

That said the odor from Def trucks accelerating to freeway speed is not much better.

Diesels, generators, lawn mowers, weed whackers.... CA is coming for them all.

Federally emissions laws seem to get more large-scale enforcement, remember the Diesel Brothers fine? Not cheap.

Showing the world how you put emissions modified trucks on the road was not the best idea.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Im not sure about the rest of the country but where we are DEF isnt always on the shelf at places like Walmart. Home Depot is our fall back, they always seem to have it.

When I see it at Walmart I buy enough to fill the bed of the truck with the boxes. Our motorhome when towing burns it practically as fast as diesel. The truck is being deleted this week, I have been informed there are places that will do motorhomes but thats pretty risky since you never know where the next buyer might live in the country. The truck in Alabama where we live now is a no brainer. The cost to do it is half what I was quoted in California and the increase in the value of the truck here makes it a push, then factor in fuel mileage increase and not buying DEF.

And is it just me, that if you buy the Blue Def in the boxes with that screw on flexi spout thing that there is no way to prevent if from dripping on your shoes?

 

[pixrthis]

I love power as much as the next guy but don’t understand why the need to tune modern diesels. We drive new Fords and Dodge’s at work with loads that far out weigh most recreational things most people tow and have little to no problems. Get stuck behind slow trucks going up steep grades and easily accelerate back to 55 to 70 mph seems pretty damn good. Not having to deal with the worry of anything when it’s time for smog is stress free. If I want the thrill of hauling ass I get on my dirt bike, boat, or any of the other toys I have that can give me a thrill, my tuck just gets the fun stuff to where we use it.

 

[pronstar]

I have zero sympathy for folks who think “rolling coal” is cool…what the fuck did you think was gonna happen?

Imbeciles.

Better to stay under the radar, especially if flaunting federal law.

 

[rivrrts429]

I love power as much as the next guy but don’t understand why the need to tune modern diesels. We drive new Fords and Dodge’s at work with loads that far out weigh most recreational things most people tow and have little to no problems. Get stuck behind slow trucks going up steep grades and easily accelerate back to 55 to 70 mph seems pretty damn good. Not having to deal with the worry of anything when it’s time for smog is stress free. If I want the thrill of hauling ass I get on my dirt bike, boat, or any of the other toys I have that can give me a thrill, my tuck just gets the fun stuff to where we use it.

Since the birth of the internal combustion motor there has been a gear head somewhere trying to squeeze every last horsepower and potential out of it.

I had a new 2015 6.7 Powerstroke I sold recently. Thing was a beast. Like twice the elephant as my 6 ooohhh Powerstoke. I was still compiling a list of items I was going to do to it after the warranty was up. One of those items was deleting it.

I think it’s great that this country is comprised of crazy redneck gearheads that are constantly trying to skirt the laws and improve every bit of the horsepower to cubic inch ratio.

 

[floatn turd]

Lemmy get this straight.
Regarding laws politicians choose to enforce with an iron fist......



Ok.

Ok.

Ok.

Ok.

Ok.

Ok.

Ok.

Ok.

Ok.

Not Ok.

 

[TimeBandit]

Follow the Money, how much can they get from most "criminals".

Big headlines, big splashy fines... when in reality they prosecuted one case in a year. How many Gov't. employees do we pay for one conviction?

And the owner of the company must be white, or it aint right!

 

[Melloyellovector]

Im not sure about the rest of the country but where we are DEF isnt always on the shelf at places like Walmart. Home Depot is our fall back, they always seem to have it.

When I see it at Walmart I buy enough to fill the bed of the truck with the boxes. Our motorhome when towing burns it practically as fast as diesel. The truck is being deleted this week, I have been informed there are places that will do motorhomes but thats pretty risky since you never know where the next buyer might live in the country. The truck in Alabama where we live now is a no brainer. The cost to do it is half what I was quoted in California and the increase in the value of the truck here makes it a push, then factor in fuel mileage increase and not buying DEF.

And is it just me, that if you buy the Blue Def in the boxes with that screw on flexi spout thing that there is no way to prevent if from dripping on your shoes?

not just you

I usually pinch open the duckbill breather before attaching hose. Sometimes they are semi closed from sitting on shelf. I think it helps, at least that’s what I tell myself when the wind blows it down the side of my truck or onto my rims and you don’t see it til it‘s dried up and crispy

 

[pronstar]

Follow the Money, how much can they get from most "criminals".

Big headlines, big splashy fines... when in reality they prosecuted one case in a year. How many Gov't. employees do we pay for one conviction?

And the owner of the company must be white, or it aint right!

Par for the course.

Go to a shitty part of town and you’ll see cars on blocks in the front yard. With 6-foot weeds indicating they hasn’t moved in years.

Put that same car on blocks in the yard of a nice neighborhood, same city, and code enforcement will be parachuting in to fine the homeowner.

 

[Brokeboatin221]

Lot of coal roll haters on here now…. Sad what the worlds coming too. Hope Elon makes you a nice boat soon….

 

[was thatguy]

Lot of coal roll haters on here now…. Sad what the worlds coming too. Hope Elon makes you a nice boat soon….

Are you kidding?
NO ONE rolls coal like Elon!!

 

[liquid addiction]

Maybe wrong but still frickin funny

Bad thing is those on the bikes are probably the tree huggers and their lawyers just looking for another reason.

 

[Boat 405]

A properly tuned cummins 6.7 won't even produce a lick of black smoke. If it's done right will get great fuel mileage and zero smoke. I used EFI live on a 2007.5 6.7 and it ran awesome. I actually had two mufflers on mine. I used the stock exhaust pipe from the tip under the truck and added a second one where the dpf used to be and it was rad. Quieter than stock, only noise you could hear was the turbo. I put 100k miles on it deleted and got 13 mpg towing at 65 my 26' enclosed trailer and 20 - 22 unloaded driving to the river from so cal at 75 mph. One trip from Colorado to Phoenix i got right at 23 mpg going 65 unloaded.

 

[QC22]

There is so much dumbfuckery in this thread that there is no way to respond to it all. The fact is that DEF is so effective at reducing NOx that it allows fuel injection timing that we used back in the late 80's. Very fuel efficient timing, and yet we have NOx emissions that are 40x less (8 vs .2 grams per horsepower hour). And yes, even though some of these agencies are dumber than this thread, they can estimate the weight of that shit. DEF (urea) is not some "kickback" scheme, it is used for a chemical reaction that converts the NOx to Nitrogen and water. We are getting power out of stock 6 liter diesels these days that we used to get out of 15 liter engines just 30 years ago with no emission controls. Many Class 8 rigs are getting over 7 MPG now and we begged for 5 back then. That's all real life numbers. I literally test HD trucks for fuel efficiency for a living. All with modern emission controls.

With that noted, I am not endorsing all emission laws or the idiots that write them, but I can guarantee you SoCal has benefited from PM and NOx reductions. Counting CO2 is the biggest scam in history, but actual pollutant reductions are a good thing.

 

[Icky]

not just you

I usually pinch open the duckbill breather before attaching hose. Sometimes they are semi closed from sitting on shelf. I think it helps, at least that’s what I tell myself when the wind blows it down the side of my truck or onto my rims and you don’t see it til it‘s dried up and crispy

I take my knife and poke a hole in it so it vents at the top when pouring vs the filler neck. It doesn't stop the dripping, but it pours faster. Quick rinse with water when I'm done

 

[Orange Juice]

$3M sounds like a slap on the hand.

I wonder if the EPA has a rewards program, to report shops that install turners?

You know, a Pissed off employee gathers evidence (video) he’s about to quit, and needs an extra $5k-25k.

Or a customer decides to sue the shop for installing it, hoping to get an out of court settlement, of let’s say $5k-25k….and splits it with their attorney (who specializes in tuner shops).

These new Electric trucks out torque the gas and diesel pickup trucks anyway, At some point they will no longer be available in the average pickup/dually.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Going to have to get HP tuners and get the info to do it yourself.

Pretty sure HP tuners has removed the ability to disable emissions functions in their latest software updates the past few years. I know EFI Live did it first here in the US. You have to get an old software copy (or out of the country) to do it I believe.