Cole / Howard

[Flat freak]

I stumbled onto an old thread on River Racer.net from 2003. In the thread it stated that Howard wanted to update his runner bottom & Cole wanted to build a Cruiser. So Cole traded a TR2 for a cruiser with Howard. I recently picked up an 86 Howard runner bottom and am now wondering if it’s a TR2 or the Hondo splash I originally thought it was? Does anybody out there have Direct Knowledge of this? And if it is true, did the TR2 come out of the first mold or the second mold? I’m definitely looking forward to some info

 

[Husqy510]

Isn't the Cole a splash of the Hondo? So in the end regardless of where Howard got the mold they're all a version of the Hondo. That's as I understand it at least.

 

[Flat freak]

Isn't the Cole a splash of the Hondo? So in the end regardless of where Howard got the mold they're all a version of the Hondo. That's as I understand it at least.

Yes, it does sound like you can trace all the different runner bottoms back to Hondo. However the guys at Cole did refine the bottom design and ended up with a more desirable race boat. The TR2, at some point Cole refined their TR2 mold for a better “ blueprinted bottom “. That’s why I put my question out there. Hopefully we all don’t get way off into the weeds on this. I just wanted to know if anyone had Direct Knowledge of any boat / plug swap between Cole & Howard. Cheers!

 

[Bite the Bullet]

I stumbled onto an old thread on River Racer.net from 2003. In the thread it stated that Howard wanted to update his runner bottom & Cole wanted to build a Cruiser. So Cole traded a TR2 for a cruiser with Howard. I recently picked up an 86 Howard runner bottom and am now wondering if it’s a TR2 or the Hondo splash I originally thought it was? Does anybody out there have Direct Knowledge of this? And if it is true, did the TR2 come out of the first mold or the second mold? I’m definitely looking forward to some info

The late Gene Willen, who purchased Howard Boats from Howard Brown, told me his flattie was a TR-3 splash.

 

[Flat freak]

The late Gene Willen, who purchased Howard Boats from Howard Brown, told me his flattie was a TR-3 thank you for responding , that is very interesting to hear for sure. Is there anything else you remember about your conversation with Gene regarding the splash? Sorry but I’m a bit of a freak when it comes to these boats. Also if anyone reading this knows Jim Lang , I would love to hear his input.

The late Gene Willen, who purchased Howard Boats from Howard Brown, told me his flattie was a TR-3 splash.

 

[Bite the Bullet]

During that conversation , I said, “why don’t you build a flattie for old times sake?” He replied…why don’t you? In fact, I’ll sell you the mold for 2 grand! Later, he said he sold it to Ron Braaksma. Around 1983, I bought a new stage 1 Howard flattie for about 2 thousand from Howard Brown. I traded it off and built a Mako instead. It’s doubtful Jim Lange would know anything about the splash.

 

[Flat freak]

During that conversation , I said, “why don’t you build a flattie for old times sake?” He replied…why don’t you? In fact, I’ll sell you the mold for 2 grand! Later, he said he sold it to Ron Braaksma. Around 1983, I bought a new stage 1 Howard flattie for about 2 thousand from Howard Brown. I traded it off and built a Mako instead. It’s doubtful Jim Lange would know anything about the splash.

Thanks again, I have a couple more questions. I wrecked one of my Hondos at Ming in 1998. I was living in Santa Clarita at the time so I stopped by Howard’s and talked with Gene about laying up a new one. So my question is, did the boat you bought in 83 come out of the mold that was sold to Ron? Or did Howard build a new mold from the the TR3? When I talked with Gene I remember him showing me his mold. But I don’t remember if he said anything about it being a TR3. Sorry I’m jumping around a little bit, did you know in 83 you were getting a TR3 bottom / splash? And is that why you swapped it for a Mako? Not too many guys wanted to deal with the TR3 because of the extra rocker it had in it. Me included, and now I’m wondering if this Howard I’m putting some serious power into has a little to much rocker? Thanks again for your time

 

[coolchange]

You can visually see the difference between a tr2 tr3. If I remember the toe board is obvious.
Didn’t the Howard come out before the tr3?
Why wouldn’t Jim know?

 

[Bite the Bullet]

Thanks again, I have a couple more questions. I wrecked one of my Hondos at Ming in 1998. I was living in Santa Clarita at the time so I stopped by Howard’s and talked with Gene about laying up a new one. So my question is, did the boat you bought in 83 come out of the mold that was sold to Ron? Or did Howard build a new mold from the the TR3? When I talked with Gene I remember him showing me his mold. But I don’t remember if he said anything about it being a TR3. Sorry I’m jumping around a little bit, did you know in 83 you were getting a TR3 bottom / splash? And is that why you swapped it for a Mako? Not too many guys wanted to deal with the TR3 because of the extra rocker it had in it. Me included, and now I’m wondering if this Howard I’m putting some serious power into has a little to much rocker? Thanks again for your time

I’m having to dig deep into the memory…from what I remember, the Howard I bought in 83 was supposed to be a splash of a Cole Tr2. Gene corrected me years later and said it was a Tr3 splash. I believe there was only one mold and the boat I bought in 83 is from the mold Braaksma purchased. Make sense?

 

[Bite the Bullet]

You can visually see the difference between a tr2 tr3. If I remember the toe board is obvious.
Didn’t the Howard come out before the tr3?
Why wouldn’t Jim know?

Just my guess…Jim was super busy at Cole Boats and then his own shop, Hi-Tech Marine. He may not have any knowledge about who was splashing boats. The Howard Flattie was rarely seen at the races and I only remember one called Flat Outa Sight owned by Denny Vachel (rip). If you took a Howard to Lange, he most likely could tell what hull it was splashed from by looking at the bottom.

 

[Flat freak]

I’m having to dig deep into the memory…from what I remember, the Howard I bought in 83 was supposed to be a splash of a Cole Tr2. Gene corrected me years later and said it was a Tr3 splash. I believe there was only one mold and the boat I bought in 83 is from the mold Braaksma purchased. Make sense?

Fully understand the memory part, I would forget my ass if it wasn’t attached to me. We’re getting closer, the timeline is still a little blurry. My Howard is an 86, so when did Braksma get ahold of the mold? Which leads me to another question. What mold was I looking at when Gene showed me his in either 1999 or 2000? Please forgive me men, but I eat this kind of shit up

 

[Flat freak]

You can visually see the difference between a tr2 tr3. If I remember the toe board is obvious.
Didn’t the Howard come out before the tr3?
Why wouldn’t Jim know?

If I read this correctly, Jim Lang said he added a 1/4 in. Of rocker to what became the TR3. I could easily be wrong but I’m not sure that would show up in the toe board? Again I hope we don’t get way off into the weeds on this . I do believe Lang could add some clarity to this. So if anyone could rattle his cage and get him on this I think that would be great.

 

[coolchange]

Ya that may be. First one I saw up close was Gary Baca’s and I thought it looked different. Maybe it was the way it sat on the trailer.

 

[Bite the Bullet]

Fully understand the memory part, I would forget my ass if it wasn’t attached to me. We’re getting closer, the timeline is still a little blurry. My Howard is an 86, so when did Braksma get ahold of the mold? Which leads me to another question. What mold was I looking at when Gene showed me his in either 1999 or 2000? Please forgive me men, but I eat this kind of shit up

Your 86 would’ve come from the mold Gene showed you in 2000. Braaksma bought the mold after 2004… unsure of exact date.

 

[Bite the Bullet]

Ya that may be. First one I saw up close was Gary Baca’s and I thought it looked different. Maybe it was the way it sat on the trailer.

Cosmetically, there’s no difference between a Tr2 and 3 sitting on a trailer. The Tr4 had a new deck which was then adapted to both the Tr2 and 3 boats. Cole called the a Tr3 with a 4 deck a Tr5. A Tr2 with a 4 deck was called a Tr6. Make sense?

 

[TonyFanelli]

Anyone have a lead on prop rechroming??

Appreciate it

 

[bagged97taco]

No chrome prop if you use the boat! I would clean it really well and buy the dye kit to check it for cracks.

 

[TonyFanelli]

No chrome prop if you use the boat! I would clean it really well and buy the dye kit to check it for cracks.

Thank you!

 

[Flat freak]

Anyone have a lead on prop rechroming?? View attachment 1384753 View attachment 1384754
Appreciate it

If you’re slightly handy, find one of these wheels for your grinder. It will clean that prop really well. That rust is not too bad… Yet.

 

[TonyFanelli]

Found this on ebay, pretty neat idea. Had to get it