CamGuard additive

[Jonas Grumby]

Anybody heard of this? Any good or is it snake oil?

Aviation guys seem to swear by it.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Got My attention , just had my first cam/lifter failure in years and hundreds of engines , will look at anything that might help

CamGuard Engine Oil Aviation

Aviation “I’ve been a user of your product for several years now and think CamGuard does a great job. I have 1750+ hours since new on my TCM IO-550 with all original cylinders and no sign of any issues. Thanks again!!” – CamGuard User, Steve Lin Buy From Your Favorite Local CamGuard Dealer...

aslcamguard.com

 

[Shlbyntro]

I use ZDDP in my flat tappet engines

 

[PlanB]

I use ZDDP in my flat tappet engines

I have cases of ZDDP that I use in my Roush motor in my Cobra.

Where to Buy ZDDP Oil Additive Performance Solution - ZDDP Plus

Buy ZDDP Oil Additive Oil Additive from trusted dealers online and near you provided by ZDDP Plus. The Best Oil Additive on the market!

zddplus.com

 

[rrrr]

Anybody heard of this? Any good or is it snake oil?

Aviation guys seem to swear by it.

CamGuard was developed because of a construction feature particular to Lycoming opposed cylinder aircraft engines that creates cam and lifter face corrosion and failure. It can also occur in engines manufactured by Continental. The cam is located in the top of the engine case, above the crankshaft, and is oiled by splash lubrication from the crankshaft rotating assembly.

Because these aircraft engines can sit unused for long periods of time, two things occur. One, the oil on the cam and lifters drains away. The other is that atmospheric moisture collects in the top of the engine case, and ambient temperature changes cause the moisture to condense on the cam and lifter faces. The condensation attacks the wear surfaces of these parts, and over time, it initiates corrosion that causes failure due to scoring of the cam face and spalling of the lifter friction surface.

CamGuard was developed to promote adhesion of the engine oil to the cam and lifter faces, and additives in the product reduce the ability of oxygen and moisture to attack the part's surfaces.

Use of CamGuard in a normally driven automotive engine would provide no discernable benefit to cam and lifter preservation. It could help protect the parts in engines of vehicles that are infrequently driven from corrosion for the same reasons I listed above.

I know you guys think I use Google to write this stuff, but it just drips out of my brain.

 

[Desert Whaler]

CamGuard was developed because of a construction feature particular to Lycoming opposed cylinder aircraft engines that creates cam and lifter face corrosion and failure. It can also occur in engines manufactured by Continental. The cam is located in the top of the engine case, above the crankshaft, and is oiled by splash lubrication from the crankshaft rotating assembly.

Because these aircraft engines can sit unused for long periods of time, two things occur. One, the oil on the cam and lifters drains away. The other is that atmospheric moisture collects in the top of the engine case, and ambient temperature changes cause the moisture to condense on the cam and lifter faces. The condensation attacks the wear surfaces of these parts, and over time, it initiates corrosion that causes failure due to scoring of the cam face and spalling of the lifter friction surface.

CamGuard additive was developed to promote adhesion of the engine oil to the cam and lifter faces, and additives in the product reduce the ability of oxygen and moisture to attack the part's surfaces.

Use of CamGuard in a normally driven automotive engine would provide no discernable benefit to cam and lifter preservation. It could help protect the parts in engines of vehicles that are infrequently driven from corrosion for the same reasons I listed above.

I know you guys think I use Google to write this stuff, but it just drips out of my brain.

Makes 100% sense.
What are your thoughts on using it in an overhead cam V8 like my 4.7 2UZ-FE Toyota V8 Motor (2006 Tundra) ?
On one of the Tundra forums they noted a similar scenario you described above, which can be 'somewhat' experienced in these motors.
Apparently a good amount of 'sludge' can accumulate under the valve covers in the Gen 1 Tundras which
are primarily used for very short trips.
The working theory is that the motor heats up, then cools when turned off drawing moisture / condensation in.
Repeated short start /stop cycles like this don't allow for a proper 'burn off'of the moisture , thus resulting in the sludge accumulation.
The cure is to run the motors for longer periods, and be diligent with oil changes of the recommended 5w-30 synthetic at around 5K miles.
When shopping for Gen 1 Tundras, some believe a very 'low mileage' truck from 2000-2006 has it's own set of problems, the sludge build up being one of them.

 

[rivermobster]

If it has zinc...

And your engine has a catalytic converter behind it ...

Using it would be a Really bad idea.

 

[wzuber]

Torco oils ZEP is a very good ZDDP oil additive for flat tappet cams etc.
Www.Torco.com

 

[PlanB]

If it has zinc...

And your engine has a catalytic converter behind it ...

Using it would be a Really bad idea.

Yeah, zinc is not good for cats.

 

[rrrr]

Makes 100% sense.
What are your thoughts on using it in an overhead cam V8 like my 4.7 2UZ-FE Toyota V8 Motor (2006 Tundra) ?
On one of the Tundra forums they noted a similar scenario you described above, which can be 'somewhat' experienced in these motors.
Apparently a good amount of 'sludge' can accumulate under the valve covers in the Gen 1 Tundras which
are primarily used for very short trips.
The working theory is that the motor heats up, then cools when turned off drawing moisture / condensation in.
Repeated short start /stop cycles like this don't allow for a proper 'burn off'of the moisture , thus resulting in the sludge accumulation.
The cure is to run the motors for longer periods, and be diligent with oil changes of the recommended 5w-30 synthetic at around 5K miles.
When shopping for Gen 1 Tundras, some believe a very 'low mileage' truck from 2000-2006 has it's own set of problems, the sludge build up being one of them.

The combustion of a gallon of gasoline produces copious amounts of water. Some of that escapes into the crankcase through piston ring blowby, which can be exacerbated by PCV systems drawing crankcase air to the top of the engine.

If the vehicle isn't driven long enough for the oil to be heated above an elevated temperature, the moisture is retained in the oil. This is repeated over short trips. As the aluminum cylinder head cools, the moisture is drawn into the cam cover and condenses. It reacts with other combustion products to form acids and the sludge you mentioned.

To minimize this condition, avoid short stints in the vehicle whenever possible, as you said above.

CamGuard would not be of any benefit.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

CamGuard was developed because of a construction feature particular to Lycoming opposed cylinder aircraft engines that creates cam and lifter face corrosion and failure. It can also occur in engines manufactured by Continental. The cam is located in the top of the engine case, above the crankshaft, and is oiled by splash lubrication from the crankshaft rotating assembly.

Because these aircraft engines can sit unused for long periods of time, two things occur. One, the oil on the cam and lifters drains away. The other is that atmospheric moisture collects in the top of the engine case, and ambient temperature changes cause the moisture to condense on the cam and lifter faces. The condensation attacks the wear surfaces of these parts, and over time, it initiates corrosion that causes failure due to scoring of the cam face and spalling of the lifter friction surface.

CamGuard was developed to promote adhesion of the engine oil to the cam and lifter faces, and additives in the product reduce the ability of oxygen and moisture to attack the part's surfaces.

Use of CamGuard in a normally driven automotive engine would provide no discernable benefit to cam and lifter preservation. It could help protect the parts in engines of vehicles that are infrequently driven from corrosion for the same reasons I listed above.

I know you guys think I use Google to write this stuff, but it just drips out of my brain.

Sounds like it would be good for a boat or truck that sits weeks at a time between starts?

 

[mash on it]

Sounds like it would be good for a boat or truck that sits weeks at a time between starts?

That high tech airplane engine relies on splash oiling from the crankshaft to lube the camshaft. Much like a 216 Chevy 6 (1940's technology)

Sbc's (1955 up) and big block Chevy's (1965 up) have full pressure oiling, including the cam and lifters.

Extra fancy ZDDP wouldn't hurt in a flat tappet boat, but isn't necessary.
Just running a quality oil is sufficient. I use Delo 400 15/40 (higher ZDDP content) in all the flat tappet engines. And some roller ones too.

Dan'l

 

[Racey]

CamGuard was developed because of a construction feature particular to Lycoming opposed cylinder aircraft engines that creates cam and lifter face corrosion and failure. It can also occur in engines manufactured by Continental. The cam is located in the top of the engine case, above the crankshaft, and is oiled by splash lubrication from the crankshaft rotating assembly.

Because these aircraft engines can sit unused for long periods of time, two things occur. One, the oil on the cam and lifters drains away. The other is that atmospheric moisture collects in the top of the engine case, and ambient temperature changes cause the moisture to condense on the cam and lifter faces. The condensation attacks the wear surfaces of these parts, and over time, it initiates corrosion that causes failure due to scoring of the cam face and spalling of the lifter friction surface.

CamGuard was developed to promote adhesion of the engine oil to the cam and lifter faces, and additives in the product reduce the ability of oxygen and moisture to attack the part's surfaces.

Use of CamGuard in a normally driven automotive engine would provide no discernable benefit to cam and lifter preservation. It could help protect the parts in engines of vehicles that are infrequently driven from corrosion for the same reasons I listed above.

I know you guys think I use Google to write this stuff, but it just drips out of my brain.

Tom Lipton calls it "stickifiers" in regards to way oil on machine tools. The 'stickifiers' help to hold the oil onto the vertical surfaces.

I'll always remember it phrased that way now

 

[Racey]

The combustion of a gallon of gasoline produces copious amounts of water. Some of that escapes into the crankcase through piston ring blowby, which can be exacerbated by PCV systems drawing crankcase air to the top of the engine.

If the vehicle isn't driven long enough for the oil to be heated above an elevated temperature, the moisture is retained in the oil. This is repeated over short trips. As the aluminum cylinder head cools, the moisture is drawn into the cam cover and condenses. It reacts with other combustion products to form acids and the sludge you mentioned.

To minimize this condition, avoid short stints in the vehicle whenever possible, as you said above.

CamGuard would not be of any benefit.

It's greater than 1:1 if i remember correctly, almost all of the hydrogen in the fuel ends up as water after bonding with the oxygen from the atmosphere during combustion, and since the oxygen is much heavier than the hydrogen the output is over 1 gallon of water vapor from the combustion of 1 gallon of gasoline.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

That high tech airplane engine relies on splash oiling from the crankshaft to lube the camshaft. Much like a 216 Chevy 6 (1940's technology)

Sbc's (1955 up) and big block Chevy's (1965 up) have full pressure oiling, including the cam and lifters.

Extra fancy ZDDP wouldn't hurt in a flat tappet boat, but isn't necessary.
Just running a quality oil is sufficient. I use Delo 400 15/40 (higher ZDDP content) in all the flat tappet engines. And some roller ones too.

Dan'l

Yes I know, but it’s got to build pressure. If this stuff makes the oil stick to surfaces, sounds like a good thing during startup?

 

[rrrr]

Yes I know, but it’s got to build pressure. If this stuff makes the oil stick to surfaces, sounds like a good thing during startup?

There hasn't been any significant research or documentation I'm aware of regarding the use of CamGuard with automotive oils and in automotive and marine engines.

I do know that some aviation oils produced in recent years have included the properties of CamGuard in their additives, thus obviating its use in those instances. Curiously, some aircraft users and mechanics have also reported the use of CamGuard with a few specific aviation oils have produced other deleterious effects in engines, including increased wear on bearing surfaces. This makes me unsure of its suitability for use in automotive and marine engines.

Opposed cylinder aviation engines are relics of the 1940s.

The engines all share common characteristics, those being large displacement, full throttle operation limited to about 2,400 RPM, and low horsepower to displacement ratios. They operate at near full throttle settings for hours at a time, and almost exclusively use fixed advance magneto ignition. An injected 360 CI engine is rated at 200 HP, a 470 CI engine at 300 HP.

Very few advancements in their construction have occurred since the first iterations, mostly mechanical fuel injection and turbocharging. However, new engines built by manufacturers now have roller lifters, which has reduced incidents of the failures discussed above.

As you can see, the differences between construction, conditions of use, and the demands placed on aircraft and modern automobile engines are huge. Automotive engines in boats do sit inactive for long periods of time, but they don't have any history I'm aware of regarding corrosion of internal parts caused by the conditions experienced by aircraft engines I mentioned above, or significant wear of the cam and lifter interface. Remember, cams and lifters are made of specially treated and hardened steel, and history has shown they perform well in the engines you and I use, even considering the inactivity periods of marine engines.

CamGuard has been around for decades. I would think if there were any advantage using it in automotive or marine engines, it would have produced a history of documentation and recommendations. That doesn't seem to have happened.