Boat loans

[schweeng]

Jesus!!!!! I can afford a nice down payment …. I can afford a sizable monthly payment….. but can’t find a lender. I’ve tried 5…. All the ones you will all suggest This time around I need to finance a boat purchase - normally I buy without help.
- boat is 170k… I can put downy 20-40%… I can afford the monthly payment BUT everyone is using NADA guide which is so fucked that all the lenders want me to come up with 80-110k to get this loan….remember the sale price is 170k. They all say the used market is in for a huge wake up call in the next six months….do I sit out for a year and save more or buy some POS that I don’t want just to get on the water???

 

[FROGMAN524]

Jesus!!!!! I can afford a nice down payment …. I can afford a sizable monthly payment….. but can’t find a lender. I’ve tried 5…. All the ones you will all suggest This time around I need to finance a boat purchase - normally I buy without help.
- boat is 170k… I can put downy 20-40%… I can afford the monthly payment BUT everyone is using NADA guide which is so fucked that all the lenders want me to come up with 80-110k to get this loan….remember the sale price is 170k. They all say the used market is in for a huge wake up call in the next six months….do I sit out for a year and save more or buy some POS that I don’t want just to get on the water???

What’s the subject boat?

 

[BingerFang]

I’ve had fun in POS boats before. But it’s nice not owning a POS anymore. lol

 

[schweeng]

What’s the subject boat?

Howard Sportdeck

 

[RiverDave]

You talk to @Englewood ? Boatloanguy?

If for some reason that doesn’t work I have another option that will work for you.

RD

 

[Hardly Satisfied]

Jesus!!!!! I can afford a nice down payment …. I can afford a sizable monthly payment….. but can’t find a lender. I’ve tried 5…. All the ones you will all suggest This time around I need to finance a boat purchase - normally I buy without help.
- boat is 170k… I can put downy 20-40%… I can afford the monthly payment BUT everyone is using NADA guide which is so fucked that all the lenders want me to come up with 80-110k to get this loan….remember the sale price is 170k. They all say the used market is in for a huge wake up call in the next six months….do I sit out for a year and save more or buy some POS that I don’t want just to get on the water???

Maybe these lend know something so I would just wait it out.

 

[eand28]

Have you tried Lightstream? Higher rates but the way they lend is essentially a personal loan

 

[Go-Fly]

Buy something to get on the water. Nows not the time to buy a boat or take out a loan. In my life, I've never bought a new boat.

 

[JFMFG]

Buy something to get on the water. Nows not the time to buy a boat or take out a loan. In my life, I've never bought a new boat.

The issue is everyone has said this same thing the last 4 years and prices continue to rise or stay high. Is now ever the right time? If the buyer feels ready and it’s the time why wait? Tomorrow isn’t promised.

 

[Go-Fly]

Talking straight, 5 lenders have told you this is a bad deal. When you can't come to terms with your lender, take two steps back. You're taking a loan out for a depreciating asset. Come up with the 80k somehow if you want it that bad.

 

[Orange Juice]

I put 25% down on my first boat, with a 5 year loan.
How much time are you asking to pay it off?

 

[Mandelon]

Can you do a HELOC? Or a second mortgage on a property? Then pay it off faster than the schedule.

 

[Jay Dub]

I would consider using a personal loan. No specific collateral attached to loan.

 

[Englewood]

You talk to @Englewood ? Boatloanguy?

If for some reason that doesn’t work I have another option that will work for you.

RD

Thank you.

I spoke to him.

The issue we run into every day is that lenders rely on the NADA guide for valuations. With custom boats, the NADA “value” is often half of what they’re listed for. Because of this, lenders will only finance up to the “average retail” amount.

It’s super frustrating. If things don’t change, custom boats over 10 years old are either going to lose significant value or buyers will have to put down 50% or more to get financing.

 

[J&k beer can]

We like to keep our cash as much as possible... if you can afford the payment go for it .
if there going to give us loan with good rate we are all for it.. have other toys that are cash paid for..
but we just cant justify that amount high 6 figures to buy out right.. just how we roll.. yes we have a dual motor toon(beer can)lmao.
and yes we still have a loan......

Asking prices are high still on stuff. but is it selling... hence i would offer lower price with inspection for a Boat-Toon-Rv-Old cars... MY .02

 

[attitude]

What do the banks know that the average person doesn’t? I’m pretty bearish on the economy but even I don’t see the boat market taking a big hit heading into spring and summer? You would think if it was in for a “huge wake up call” it would have happened this winter.

 

[Cole Trickle]

What do the banks know that the average person doesn’t? I’m pretty bearish on the economy but even I don’t see the boat market taking a big hit heading into spring and summer? You would think if it was in for a “huge wake up call” it would have happened this winter.

Most high value toys are sitting as the buying pool is much smaller than years past. I don't care how much you have in the bank you either think things are going to continue to fall price wise or you cant stomach a 7%++rate.

Custom boats are a small market. I imagine most if not all production builders except for a few that cater to very high end net worth individuals are hurting. Seems like the SXS market is in big trouble as well.

5-10 year old Howard sport deck will do fine and hold value but some of these 500K++++ cats/CC are gonna get hit hard on the resale market.

 

[schweeng]

Most high value toys are sitting as the buying pool is much smaller than years past. I don't care how much you have in the bank you either think things are going to continue to fall price wise or you cant stomach a 7%++rate.

Custom boats are a small market. I imagine most if not all production builders except for a few that cater to very high end net worth individuals are hurting. Seems like the SXS market is in big trouble as well.

5-10 year old Howard sport deck will do fine and hold value but some of these 500K++++ cats/CC are gonna get hit hard on the resale market.

Yeah... i heard that as well... the big money custom used market is not going to fair so well. I hope not!

 

[Done-it-again]

Jesus!!!!! I can afford a nice down payment …. I can afford a sizable monthly payment….. but can’t find a lender. I’ve tried 5…. All the ones you will all suggest This time around I need to finance a boat purchase - normally I buy without help.
- boat is 170k… I can put downy 20-40%… I can afford the monthly payment BUT everyone is using NADA guide which is so fucked that all the lenders want me to come up with 80-110k to get this loan….remember the sale price is 170k. They all say the used market is in for a huge wake up call in the next six months….do I sit out for a year and save more or buy some POS that I don’t want just to get on the water???

Try these guys. I use them for my new to
me RV and also registered to my Montana LLC.

Boat Loans - Boat Loan Calculator | BoatLoan.com

Apply online for a boat loan and get approved in minutes. Our network of 18 banks means you get you a low, low rate for your new or used boat or boat refinancing. Fast, secure, and low rate boat loans and yacht loans.

www.boatloan.com

 

[schweeng]

Thanks for all the replys.....
So I know basically a new Howard is 265-270k..(with a 600). Its been this price basically for the last few years. So.... with that in mind I looked up a 2022.....NADA guide for a 2022 used Howard shows about 145k.... How does that work?

 

[Done-it-again]

Most high value toys are sitting as the buying pool is much smaller than years past. I don't care how much you have in the bank you either think things are going to continue to fall price wise or you cant stomach a 7%++rate.

Custom boats are a small market. I imagine most if not all production builders except for a few that cater to very high end net worth individuals are hurting. Seems like the SXS market is in big trouble as well.

5-10 year old Howard sport deck will do fine and hold value but some of these 500K++++ cats/CC are gonna get hit hard on the resale market.

People have been saying this for years now. I guess if we keep saying it, it will eventually happen.

 

[schweeng]

Try these guys. I use them for my new to
me RV and also registered to my Montana LLC.

Boat Loans - Boat Loan Calculator | BoatLoan.com

Apply online for a boat loan and get approved in minutes. Our network of 18 banks means you get you a low, low rate for your new or used boat or boat refinancing. Fast, secure, and low rate boat loans and yacht loans.

www.boatloan.com

If they are offering "conventional" loans... it will be a similar response....
I have one more Iron in the fire.... then I'm calling mom

 

[Done-it-again]

If they are offering "conventional" loans... it will be a similar response....
I have one more Iron in the fire.... then I'm calling mom

Good luck.

 

[schweeng]

so there is a guy selling a 2021 Eliminator 27 speedster with 2 outboards... asking 330,000 in RD classifieds
NADA shows a value of 180,000...... how is this guy going to sell his Eliminator to the majority of people ? depending on "actual price" that he agrees to the buyer would need to come up with 120-150k for the down payment...... fuck.... that boat will be sitting for a long time unless Mr. Right comes along.....

 

[Englewood]

so there is a guy selling a 2021 Eliminator 27 speedster with 2 outboards... asking 330,000 in RD classifieds
NADA shows a value of 180,000...... how is this guy going to sell his Eliminator to the majority of people ? depending on "actual price" that he agrees to the buyer would need to come up with 120-150k for the down payment...... fuck.... that boat will be sitting for a long time unless Mr. Right comes along.....

His buyer will only be able to finance the $180k. A buyer will have to come up with the difference.

On a new boat, we can fund based off of the sales order. NADA does not come into play.

It’s becoming a real problem. People don’t have that much cash to cover the difference on a used purchase.

 

[DMF]

so there is a guy selling a 2021 Eliminator 27 speedster with 2 outboards... asking 330,000 in RD classifieds
NADA shows a value of 180,000...... how is this guy going to sell his Eliminator to the majority of people ? depending on "actual price" that he agrees to the buyer would need to come up with 120-150k for the down payment...... fuck.... that boat will be sitting for a long time unless Mr. Right comes along.....

I totally understand what you are saying. However, is the majority of people in a position to buy a used boat for $330,000?

 

[hallett21]

Lol are you guys really surprised?

A paid in full boat still costs thousands a year to store and insure. And that’s if it never moves.

Any reasonable lender will only lend on the bare minimum. If things turn south they want to be able to get out.

Boats are toys not cash generating assets lol.

 

[Cole Trickle]

People have been saying this for years now. I guess if we keep saying it, it will eventually happen.

High end toons and wakeboard boats are now having huge sales. New RV's are back on sale.

Every custom boat builder used to be a year or two out from starting on the new boat that's not the case for most builders.

Prices are still high and obviously someone is buying but i would wager volume is down way way more than most are reporting.

 

[RiverDave]

What do the banks know that the average person doesn’t? I’m pretty bearish on the economy but even I don’t see the boat market taking a big hit heading into spring and summer? You would think if it was in for a “huge wake up call” it would have happened this winter.

It isn't what they know, it's what they don't know.. Most average people are not going to know the value of a Howard Sport Deck with a Merc 600 with 110 hrs. etc..

So they rely on an antiquated version of value that is all but irrelevant in today's markets.

RD

 

[attitude]

It isn't what they know, it's what they don't know.. Most average people are not going to know the value of a Howard Sport Deck with a Merc 600 with 110 hrs. etc..

So they rely on an antiquated version of value that is all but irrelevant in today's markets.

RD

So banks were saying the used boat market is in for a huge wake up call and asking for 50% down two years ago? Or was Nada showing higher values 2 years ago?

 

[RiverDave]

So banks were saying the used boat market is in for a huge wake up call and asking for 50% down two years ago? Or was Nada showing higher values 2 years ago?

That's a great question.. I'm sure one that could be answered by someone smarter than me in the banking world.. Ultimately I think they were just looser with loan requirements 2 years ago than they are now. Now that there is a ton of debt out there and the economy has slowed they have tightened up.

RD

 

[Done-it-again]

High end toons and wakeboard boats are now having huge sales. New RV's are back on sale.

Every custom boat builder used to be a year or two out from starting on the new boat that's not the case for most builders.

Prices are still high and obviously someone is buying but i would wager volume is down way way more than most are reporting.

You have to go with data prior to Covid and not compare Covid inflated prices/sales to now.

Pre COVID to now what is the difference ?

As soon as inflation hit nothing is coming down. All RV, boats and even vehicles will still have these current cost.

Now as for the used boat market, it’s seems that manufacturers need to get together and try to change how NADA evaluates used boats.

 

[Englewood]

So banks were saying the used boat market is in for a huge wake up call and asking for 50% down two years ago? Or was Nada showing higher values 2 years ago?

It’s a NADA issue, not banks.

Banks will loan up to 100%+, happily.

However, NADA keeps chopping down values every year with no market research whatsoever.

 

[JFMFG]

So banks were saying the used boat market is in for a huge wake up call and asking for 50% down two years ago? Or was Nada showing higher values 2 years ago?

That's a great question.. I'm sure one that could be answered by someone smarter than me in the banking world.. Ultimately I think they were just looser with loan requirements 2 years ago than they are now. Now that there is a ton of debt out there and the economy has slowed they have tightened up.

RD

We bought our previous boat “28 Magic” the holy grail. With Covid happening when we bought I talked with Jody at the time. He told me unless you have half to put down it’s not going to happen I told him no problem. We did the deal if I remember correctly rate was 6ish percent at the time and it was a 15 year loan. We paid it off the first year as things got back to normal at work. The nada guide has been in place for years and banks were sticking to it. I think now that the sky is falling in most peoples eyes we are hearing about it more. I think boats sold like hot cakes previous years because of ppp and also the erc. “Employee retention credit” I know there is banks still financing these boats it’s just a case by case basis I think. Maybe Bernie or Tim at maxed out may be good to talk with about a financing option if you haven’t. I don’t have any information as to financing this last year as we paid the RDP cash way. But best of luck getting the new boat. If you can find a way make it happen.

 

[Cole Trickle]

You have to go with data prior to Covid and not compare Covid inflated prices/sales to now.

Pre COVID to now what is the difference ?

As soon as inflation hit nothing is coming down. All RV, boats and even vehicles will still have these current cost.

Now as for the used boat market, it’s seems that manufacturers need to get together and try to change how NADA evaluates used boats.

Pre covid F250's were 80k with 10k discounts and good rates now they are 100k+ with msrp pricing and crap rates.

Nice wake boats were 150k then they went to 350k

single engine pontoons are 150k and twins are 350k+

Rzrs and canams are now 45K+ stock.

30k used to get you a decent new car now thats an entry level rav 4 or civic.

27' twin ouboard boats are 500k and they were nowhere near that pre covid.

You ask what the difference is I would say profits and greed. We absolutely had inflation issues due to materials but alot of that has come down yet the prices stayed crazy high.

I think there are alot more people like me that make a good living and look at current new pricing and shake there head thinking WTF. These companies have lost me as a customer and millions upon millions just like me as they no longer see the same value in these depreciation items. Don't get me wrong im anything but a meiser and used to go through new cars faster than most but its gotten out of control.

 

[hallett21]

So I grew up being told you lost 25% driving a new car off the lot and 50% when you bought a boat. When did that change?

 

[RiverDave]

So I grew up being told you lost 25% driving a new car off the lot and 50% when you bought a boat. When did that change?

During Covid things appreciated.. well not really but they inflated. lol.

 

[gqchris]

Pre covid F250's were 80k with 10k discounts and good rates now they are 100k+ with msrp pricing and crap rates.

Nice wake boats were 150k then they went to 350k

single engine pontoons are 150k and twins are 350k+

Rzrs and canams are now 45K+ stock.

30k used to get you a decent new car now thats an entry level rav 4 or civic.

27' twin ouboard boats are 500k and they were nowhere near that pre covid.

You ask what the difference is I would say profits and greed. We absolutely had inflation issues due to materials but alot of that has come down yet the prices stayed crazy high.

I think there are alot more people like me that make a good living and look at current new pricing and shake there head thinking WTF. These companies have lost me as a customer and millions upon millions just like me as they no longer see the same value in these depreciation items. Don't get me wrong im anything but a meiser and used to go through new cars faster than most but its gotten out of control.

I will never buy a new vehicle again. This Bronco is my last "New" Car. It has gotten out of control and Im not playing the game anymore.

Buying Used from this point forward.

 

[OCMerrill]

Don't see how anyone can blame a bank in this current HYPER-INFLATED market.

 

[TVMNick]

Pre covid F250's were 80k with 10k discounts and good rates now they are 100k+ with msrp pricing and crap rates.

Nice wake boats were 150k then they went to 350k

single engine pontoons are 150k and twins are 350k+

Rzrs and canams are now 45K+ stock.

30k used to get you a decent new car now thats an entry level rav 4 or civic.

27' twin ouboard boats are 500k and they were nowhere near that pre covid.

You ask what the difference is I would say profits and greed. We absolutely had inflation issues due to materials but alot of that has come down yet the prices stayed crazy high.

I think there are alot more people like me that make a good living and look at current new pricing and shake there head thinking WTF. These companies have lost me as a customer and millions upon millions just like me as they no longer see the same value in these depreciation items. Don't get me wrong im anything but a meiser and used to go through new cars faster than most but its gotten out of control.

Are you an employee for a company or self employed?

If you are an employee, did you receive an increase in compensation during covid when business was booming? If yes, now that business has slowed generously are you still receiving the higher compensation or did you go back to your pre-covid compensation?

If the answer to the above isn't no/yes instead of the likely yes/no like most of the world, than you will still continue to see high pricing on all products as business haven't had the same ability to cut costs, everything for a business today is generously more expensive than it was pre-covid, interest, utilities, services, taxes, property tax, etc.. I don't think the greed runs as deep as you think it is, just simply the business is incurring costs that are a by product of the covid era inflation that they cannot control.

Just playing devils advocate to your point. I know in my business I made roughly 1/4 for 24 of what I made in 21/22 and I can assure you the pricing of my products has done nothing but gone up beyond my control, as well as my employee compensation is generously higher as I have to retain staff.

 

[SKIDMARC]

Isn't it possible that these boats are actually not worth the asking price? Regardless of new or used? I think so.

 

[hallett21]

During Covid things appreciated.. well not really but they inflated. lol.

lol.

Maybe I’m reading responses wrong but it seems like people are wishing NADA was closer to “replacement value” than actual value.

 

[RiverDave]

lol.

Maybe I’m reading responses wrong but it seems like people are wishing NADA was closer to “replacement value” than actual value.

They are, because if people can finance them then it raises the resale on what they have... Inversely if you are trying to buy something you can't get financed because people are selling it for the inflated price and Nada never kept up with that.

RD

 

[Cole Trickle]

Are you an employee for a company or self employed?

If you are an employee, did you receive an increase in compensation during covid when business was booming? If yes, now that business has slowed generously are you still receiving the higher compensation or did you go back to your pre-covid compensation?

If the answer to the above isn't no/yes instead of the likely yes/no like most of the world, than you will still continue to see high pricing on all products as business haven't had the same ability to cut costs, everything for a business today is generously more expensive than it was pre-covid, interest, utilities, services, taxes, property tax, etc.. I don't think the greed runs as deep as you think it is, just simply the business is incurring costs that are a by product of the covid era inflation that they cannot control.

Just playing devils advocate to your point. I know in my business I made roughly 1/4 for 24 of what I made in 21/22 and I can assure you the pricing of my products has done nothing but gone up beyond my control, as well as my employee compensation is generously higher as I have to retain staff.

self employed Insurance broker.

Didn't take a dime in government PPP.

My pay did not go up during covid. One of the good things about my industry is we typically stay pretty consistent. Its not a get rich industry but people still need it when things go to shit.

My wife worked for a large life insurance company as Covid hit and was laid off after 18 years along with 2500 other people so they could outsource. Her next job was 1/3 of previous pay. She lucked out and got recruited right after she started that job for a company that paid the same to other company pre covid. She has not gotten a pay raise in 3years and they have actually reduced any kind of bonus that she was entitled to.

Other than CA fastfood workers or entry level positions I don't really know anyone that is making a ton more today than they were pre covid.

 

[rivermobster]

so there is a guy selling a 2021 Eliminator 27 speedster with 2 outboards... asking 330,000 in RD classifieds
NADA shows a value of 180,000...... how is this guy going to sell his Eliminator to the majority of people ? depending on "actual price" that he agrees to the buyer would need to come up with 120-150k for the down payment...... fuck.... that boat will be sitting for a long time unless Mr. Right comes along.....

The "majority" of people are not looking to buy this boat!

Anyone that can afford to own and maintain this type of boat, most likely has the cash in their pocket.

Guys that Own car dealerships. Guys that Own construction companies. Escrow offices. Four or five Mc Donald's. Golf courses and shit like that. People that have fuck you money!

I've had countless hours of fun in my 12k 97 tri-toon.

Life is what you make it to be.

 

[H20 Toie]

Did you check with Devin Wozencraft? https://www.wozencraftfinance.com/ he got me the loan on the 42x when no-one else could

 

[Todd Mohr]

NADA boat values have been below market value for west coast style custom boats long before covid, but it was easier to make up the difference when used boats were 50k vs. 250k.

 

[ChrisV]

Had this problem when I was looking at a m35. Was about 500k short.

 

[Paradox]

so there is a guy selling a 2021 Eliminator 27 speedster with 2 outboards... asking 330,000 in RD classifieds
NADA shows a value of 180,000...... how is this guy going to sell his Eliminator to the majority of people ? depending on "actual price" that he agrees to the buyer would need to come up with 120-150k for the down payment...... fuck.... that boat will be sitting for a long time unless Mr. Right comes along.....

I think folks who buy big dollar boats typically either pay cash or have a decent line of credit with their bank based on their banking relationship.

 

[hallett21]

I’m seeing a business opportunity here lol. Maybe require 25% down to insulate yourself a little. F NADA Values Inc.

20 year option to save on the monthly