Big cat questions for those in the know

[Skinny Tire AH]

Looking at bigger boats (bigger than 25 daytona I just traded). Looking at 1. Garage length. ( I have 46')
2. Brands. Thinking DCB, Eliminator, and Skater
3. Gulp.....and pod vs no pod.

Here's the gist behind the pod vs no pod question. I know for a fact cuz I been in one, that a 30 daytona will "spin out on a sponson" when (not if) a catistrophic failure, either drive or engine occurs at high speeds. Is that a function of cats in general (twins) or Pod boats?

As far as air entrapment physics, I dont give a shit. I'm not that smart.:blah:

Im fond of Eliminator, as I've own 3 daytona's (building a 4th jet splash now) I like the "Pedigree" of DCB and the raw no holds barred look of Skaters.

Steve

 

[Outdrive1]

Garage space i can help. A 33 Daytona needs 42'. A 32 DCB needs 41', a 29 needs 38'.

Center pod delete isn't something I can tell you about. Where are you using it?

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Thanks,
Garage space question was answered exactly how I meant it.

Use: I use Roosevelt a bunch and live (I think) right near you up by LP. Havasu's just not for me, too busy.

 

[PokerRun388]

Steve, if you have time, maybe you could attend:

The LHC Boat Show, April 20/22nd...

All of the above boats that you like will be there, so you could talk to those builders about their boats, look at them all etc...:thumbsup

You've already had boats before, so you probably already know that the huge price's on Skater and DCB..:thumbsup

 

[Outdrive1]

Thanks,
Garage space question was answered exactly how I meant it.

Use: I use Roosevelt a bunch and live (I think) right near you up by LP. Havasu's just not for me, too busy.

Well shit, you don't need a true tunnel. In fact the center pod does better at lower speeds. No porpoise with the 29 or 32.

 

[Instigator]

Glad to see that business is so good. You've worked hard for it. Did you come out of your 25 OK?

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Hey Bud!,
Whats up. Come by and see the project in the backyard. I traded a guy here on RDP for a 23 Edge with new Pedo power. about 600HP. Have not even put it in the water yet. I always liked the Edge, this was Billy's old boat.

I think he got the better end of the trade but I got to keep my power.

As far as business, it's not bad but I sold my other house.

Steve

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Steve, if you have time, maybe you could attend:

The LHC Boat Show, April 20/22nd...

All of the above boats that you like will be there, so you could talk to those builders about their boats, look at them all etc...:thumbsup

You've already had boats before, so you probably already know that the huge price's on Skater and DCB..:thumbsup

Yeah the Skaters carry a premium that I don't know if its realistic or not but there are a few out there. I read all sorts of negative stuff on the bigger daytona's, so don't know who to believe. I think there is enough realtime on the ground experience here on RDP to separate the wheat from the chaff. I never hear of DCB haters. So may attend that show. Thanks

 

[Instigator]

Hey Bud!,
Whats up. Come by and see the project in the backyard. I traded a guy here on RDP for a 23 Edge with new Pedo power. about 600HP. Have not even put it in the water yet. I always liked the Edge, this was Billy's old boat.

I think he got the better end of the trade but I got to keep my power.

As far as business, it's not bad but I sold my other house.

Steve

And the cash is burning a hole hole in the box it's currently stored in?

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

And the cash is burning a hole hole in the box it's currently stored in.

Maybe, plus, I'm done giving Africa all my disposable income for a while. Just got home from 21 Days in CAR.

Heck, Jeff you know my boating, what you think?

 

[Instigator]

32 Skater with 6 drives and Stock Power. Turn key and as good or better resale value when you're ready to move on.

 

[dancudmore]

32 Skater with 6 drives and Stock Power. Turn key and as good or better resale value when you're ready to move on.

X2

 

[cave]

:thumbsup Either way Steve!

 

[PokerRun388]

32 Skater with 6 drives and Stock Power. Turn key and as good or better resale value when you're ready to move on.

That is a great looking/size boat... Love it w/ the full windshield..!:thumbsup

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Im still really curious as to the "sponson spin out" tendency of these things, and is it related to twins cats in general of pod twin power cats. And yes that skater is the one I was "measuring up".

Cave,
Jet boat is close

 

[PokerRun388]

Im still really curious as to the "sponson spin out" tendency of these things, and is it related to twins cats in general of pod twin power cats. And yes that skater is the one I was "measuring up".

Cave,
Jet boat is close

Spin outs?... What models has this happened too?.. Also, if each drive is equipped w/quad steering arms, where each drive has two arms on both sides, how could the boat possibly spin out?... Those quad steering arms are supposed to keep the drives from violently turning, right?

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I've got a pal with a Daytona with twin 710's, he broke a propshaft at 130 and the boat started to turn left violently, dug in the right sponson and did a flat spin. No one ejected but some bruises. Steering cylinders made no difference.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I've heard of more than just this instance as well in twin power high speed engine/drive catastrophic failures.

 

[throttle]

I've got a pal with a Daytona with twin 710's, he broke a propshaft at 130 and the boat started to turn left violently, dug in the right sponson and did a flat spin. No one ejected but some bruises. Steering cylinders made no difference.

that doesnt sound like a hull (sponson) problem to me, sounds mechanical and we have all seen shit happens fast at that speed. Your pal sounds pretty lucky to be alive, just sayin.

 

[PokerRun388]

I've heard of more than just this instance as well in twin power high speed engine/drive catastrophic failures.

I believe you, I just thought that was the whole point of the IMCO steering arms, to prevent the drives from turning violently in case of a catastrophic failure....:thumbsdown...

For sure something to be nervous about, I would never want that to happen to anyone... Maybe thats more common w/bravo or imcos, So the NXTs and #6s might be the better option for reliablity..:thumbsup

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I think you guys are missing my question, I'm not nervous about it, I understand the consequences, been going fast for 20 years, never twins. My question is....of the spins I've heard of and seen, all pod boats, re-entry from high speed perhaps?

Steering never failed in my friends specific case, just prop shaft.

just wondering, do skater type true tunnels suffer from the same.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Pretty sure kilrtoy should comment here


MedicalPlanQuotes.com / IPhone

 

[stspdr]

Whatever you decide i think the best thing to do is do the Tres Martin performance boat school. That was the best thing I have done related to my boat, they teach you some really good stuff and then take you out with your boat. I learned alot and feel way safer

 

[GRADS2009]

I've had prop and drive failures along with a skeg that flew off at over 100 m.p.h. on a twin engine eliminator and it always steered straight.

Hooking(spinning out) a twin engine cat is easily done if you don't know what you're doing or used to driving v-hulls. If it's trimmed in, your going slow enough and you turn sharp enough, it will spin. My advice....trim it high and let it fly.:thumbsup

 

[Luvnlife]

Let me rephrase his question. He wants to buy a big cat. He wants to know between the two, with a center pod or a true tunnel, does one or the other have more of a tendency to lose control if a drive or engine fails on one side?

Interesting, someone said if you have four rams on the steering it holds the drives straight. Does this keep the boat from spinning out? I mean if so evry twin engine boat should have them:thumbsup

 

[Patyacht]

A few comments from my perspective:
Garage - besides length think of width also and whether you need/want to work or walk around the boat or just squeeze it in.

Boat: Be sure to ride in whatever u end up wanting. The ride difference between lets say a 28' Skater w/ OB's, a 29' DCB with IB's; a 30 Spectre; and a 32' Skater will all be quite different. I'd bet one or 2 of the above you won't like.

Rigging: Quad Rams is the way to go. Using Bravo hardware behind big power is asking for problems.

Good luck with your quest.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Let me rephrase his question. He wants to buy a big cat. He wants to know between the two, with a center pod or a true tunnel, does one or the other have more of a tendency to lose control if a drive or engine fails on one side?

Interesting, someone said if you have four rams on the steering it holds the drives straight. Does this keep the boat from spinning out? I mean if so evry twin engine boat should have them:thumbsup

Luvnlife,

Thanks, you said it better than did I. I think the gist of the question is more about limitations/capabilities. Whether those are mine, equipment, water, engine, hull's ability or whatever, understanding those limitations is the key to bringing everybody AND the boat home on the trailer rather than one of those sad threads on Sunday afternoon we all see soooo many of here. I know there are some guys here with vast knowledge of these things and I respect the school of hard knocks they attended to gain that experience.

I lost a drive on 4th of july weekend at Roosevelt on my 250 Daytona a couple years ago, I was pinned, accelerating, the drive blew at around 100, boat just slowed as straight as an arrow


The steering aspect keeps coming up. Steering in the cases i have personal knowledge of remained completely operable.

Steve

 

[PokerRun388]

I've had prop and drive failures along with a skeg that flew off at over 100 m.p.h. on a twin engine eliminator and it always steered straight.

Hooking(spinning out) a twin engine cat is easily done if you don't know what you're doing or used to driving v-hulls. If it's trimmed in, your going slow enough and you turn sharp enough, it will spin. My advice....trim it high and let it fly.:thumbsup

Hard to think a Cat would spin out if it has Quad Steering arms. Thats when each drive has two steering arms on each side, (thus quad).. Thats what the arms are designed to do, so if u blow a bravo or imco drive at 130mph the boat will slow in a straight, well mannered way.

I would think any boat that had spun out, had only single, or dual rams, where when the drive blew, there wasn't a second ram on the other side to keep the boat straight, so the drive violently turned, and then, disaster...

How the hell is a Cat going to spin out w/quad arms?

 

[PokerRun388]

But anyway Steve, back on track, Romer's 388 Skater is for sale at a great price, if u like his boat... Nice,clean, conservative colors 499K, OSO classifieds.:thumbsup

 

[Outdrive1]

But anyway Steve, back on track, Romer's 388 Skater is for sale at a great price, if u like his boat... Nice,clean, conservative colors 499K, OSO classifieds.:thumbsup

That's a bitchin boat. :thumbsup

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Too much boat, I'm likely a good candidate for a 32 tops based on my storage, and boating style. But thanks, very, very cool.

 

[throttle]

That's a bitchin boat. :thumbsup

I think I have room in my garage for it too!

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

My daytona 26 ICC and DCB f29 are such completely different boats. The daytona at 120 was "exciting", and was a loose boat, a lot of fun to drive fast, and you knew you were going fast. The DCB at 2 feet 2" longer is completely different, almost boring at 120. I still can't get over how much different it is. It's very easy to get in trouble in the DCB because you have very little perception of how fast you are going.


MedicalPlanQuotes.com / IPhone

 

[PokerRun388]

That's a bitchin boat. :thumbsup

X2, Beautiful boat, amazing price...:thumbsup, Can't wait too see Romer kick ass at DS.!:thumbsup

 

[PokerRun388]

Is that his with the Carson Brummitt engines, can't find it?

Yes CB engines 1500s/#6s, 191mph 2011 LOTO Shootout, AZ boat...

OSO classifieds, or bruckbullockmarine.com(Skater listings)

 

[PokerRun388]

Too much boat, I'm likely a good candidate for a 32 tops based on my storage, and boating style. But thanks, very, very cool.

Steve, that is alot of boat, I agree lol... DCBracing has a goregous
2008 F32, twin 1100s, IMCO SCXs, amazing grey/red gel if you look on their site.. Has quad ram steering, very nice feature! 219K

 

[Deano]

How the hell is a Cat going to spin out w/quad arms?

Quads aren't going to help with anything unless you break the gimble. Any twin boat at speed will act violent if you don't let off when a drive breaks on the other side.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Quads aren't going to help with anything unless you break the gimble. Any twin boat at speed will act violent if you don't let off when a drive breaks on the other side.

So far I am up to 80, been going up in 5 mph increments. Shutting one motor down at speed, boat tracks straight, no drama yet. Gonna try 85 next in the spring.


MedicalPlanQuotes.com / IPhone

 

[RUNNINHOTRACING163.1]

Quads aren't going to help with anything unless you break the gimble. Any twin boat at speed will act violent if you don't let off when a drive breaks on the other side.

Ditto Deano spun out at 33 Daytona and got pretty Violent tossed peeps out of the boat when we broke a crankshaft & locked up a drive .
and they all get dual powersteering as well now :thumbsup







ROCK ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS A SKATER NATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:drnkfr

 

[POWERCATDON]

Let me rephrase his question. He wants to buy a big cat. He wants to know between the two, with a center pod or a true tunnel, does one or the other have more of a tendency to lose control if a drive or engine fails on one side?

Interesting, someone said if you have four rams on the steering it holds the drives straight. Does this keep the boat from spinning out? I mean if so evry twin engine boat should have them:thumbsup

The Problems. It Seems To Have to Do The Fact That Once The Motor On One side or the other( And Drive ) Breaks That it will Tend To Turn To The Running Side. ( I'm Willing to Bet That at That Point Over Correcting Becomes The Problem.) ( High Speed Schooling is always Good )

 

[Letzgo]

The Problems. It Seems To Have to Do The Fact That Once The Motor On One side or the other( And Drive ) Breaks That it will Tend To Turn To The Running Side. ( I'm Willing to Bet That at That Point Over Correcting Becomes The Problem.) ( High Speed Schooling is always Good )

You would think it would turn to the non running side as it is acting like a brake when the prop locks up and the good (running) drive is still pushing hard. Just like turning brakes on a sandrail.

 

[Luvnlife]

So do the quad rams solve the problem? I can totally understand the overcorrecting could cause the spinout. I just would think all big cats with twins would have quad steering, seems like a given.

 

[paradise]

From what I understand, When you just shut down a drive by dropping it to idle etc at speed, the prop is free to spin, so while you are certainly loosing propulsion on the "dead" side it doesn't have a bunch of drag.

When these drives are breaking at speed, the dead drive sometimes locks up, which stops the prop and creates a ton of drag. That extra drag coupled with the other drive still pushing hard would cause the boat to turn "quickly" imho...

Think of a twin engine boat you are steering with just the engines... It doesn't matter if the drives are straight, it's the difference in thrust/drag from left to right.

 

[Letzgo]

The quad rams are only going to help with a steering malfunction like a broken gimbal. If the drive locks up it is causing its own drag like a rutter. The external steering will help keep the drives straight but not completly correct the problem.

Walt made a comment that he has been shuting one drive or the other down at high speeds and the boat tracks straight still. I would assume that is because the drive is still spinnig from the water being forced through it like a fan in the wind still turns. If the drive locked up you would feel the pull but if on the sticks you can back out. I dont think its over correction as much as to late of a correction as the boats are not going one way and then over correcting the other way. They are turng one way and hooking.

 

[RUNNINHOTRACING163.1]

You would think it would turn to the non running side as it is acting like a brake when the prop locks up and the good (running) drive is still pushing hard. Just like turning brakes on a sandrail.

Thats exactly what it does ,i mean DID





ROCK ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS A SKATER NATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:drnkfr

 

[RUNNINHOTRACING163.1]

The quad rams are only going to help with a steering malfunction like a broken gimbal. If the drive locks up it is causing its own drag like a rutter. The external steering will help keep the drives straight but not completly correct the problem.

Walt made a comment that he has been shuting one drive or the other down at high speeds and the boat tracks straight still. I would assume that is because the drive is still spinnig from the water being forced through it like a fan in the wind still turns. If the drive locked up you would feel the pull but if on the sticks you can back out. I dont think its over correction as much as to late of a correction as the boats are not going one way and then over correcting the other way. They are turng one way and hooking.

Letzgo you are 100% correct shutting down the motor will still allow the prop to free spin , on the other hand locking up a motor and drive she will hook to the side .




ROCK ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS A SKATER NATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:drnkfr

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Something else to consider, on our boat the power steering pump is only on one engine. If that engine locks up / shuts down you can't steer.


MedicalPlanQuotes.com / IPhone

 

[dancudmore]

Something else to consider, on our boat the power steering pump is only on one engine. If that engine locks up / shuts down you can't steer.


MedicalPlanQuotes.com / IPhone

Not easily, but you can still turn it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RUNNINHOTRACING163.1]

Something else to consider, on our boat the power steering pump is only on one engine. If that engine locks up / shuts down you can't steer.


prop is still spinning regardless :grumble:







ROCK ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS A SKATER NATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AZJD]

I've had prop and drive failures along with a skeg that flew off at over 100 m.p.h. on a twin engine eliminator and it always steered straight.

Hooking(spinning out) a twin engine cat is easily done if you don't know what you're doing or used to driving v-hulls. If it's trimmed in, your going slow enough and you turn sharp enough, it will spin. My advice....trim it high and let it fly.:thumbsup

Hooking is caused by drives sticking, props not free wheeling and creating a huge amount of drag with the opposite side still full push.


Sent from my African American iPhone using Tapatalk