Automotive Dealer Service Depts pushing additives

[Taboma]

Been going to the same Ford Dealership since the mid 90's. The only thing that's changed has been the dealership's owners.
Not long ago this dealership was acquired by a new owner, one previously unheard of in San Diego, yet almost overnight that name appeared on at least three area Ford Dealerships.

First dealings with their service dept. yesterday, and was surprised when the service writers started pushing a hundred plus dollars worth of "Recommended BG Premium Additives" on top of a simple scheduled oil, filter, rotation request.

First time in well over 20 years I've had any dealer, from Lexus, Audi, GMC or Ford, rather aggressively push additives not in the manufactures maintenance schedule.

Unless I'm treating a specific problem, the only additive I use is a fuel stabilizer for my Havasu toys and yard implement gas, otherwise I'll pass.
What I find irritating is I know there's other customers, both young and old, who will be paying another almost two hundred bucks for a simple service, for their "Preferred Package" based on their recommendations and sales spiel.

I shared with the advisor that In 2017 Ford sent a letter to dealers, in which it stated they shouldn't offer additives that were not recommended by Ford. He claimed these additives were approved by Ford, I can't find anything to suggest that's true.
When I got home I shot an email off to BG requesting documentation confirming Ford's approval of these additives. Be interesting to see how they respond.

Is this now becoming more common with automotive dealership service departments ?

Walking around the lot and viewing their markups on every vehicle even remotely "Special" and several heavily marked up "Custom" trucks, I'm thinking they're trying to beat out Ken Grody for the world's greediest dealer prize.

 

[J&k beer can]

Yes it's common practice..
Been a few years now..
GMC Buick Cadillac dealer are doing it..
I said why do I need that if I'm regularly doing oil changes..
He said it's to help the oil .
I said that's why I do the required regular on time oil changes..
He was dumbfounded with no response...

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Been going to the same Ford Dealership since the mid 90's. The only thing that's changed has been the dealership's owners.
Not long ago this dealership was acquired by a new owner, one previously unheard of in San Diego, yet almost overnight that name appeared on at least three area Ford Dealerships.

First dealings with their service dept. yesterday, and was surprised when the service writers started pushing a hundred plus dollars worth of "Recommended BG Premium Additives" on top of a simple scheduled oil, filter, rotation request.

First time in well over 20 years I've had any dealer, from Lexus, Audi, GMC or Ford, rather aggressively push additives not in the manufactures maintenance schedule.

Unless I'm treating a specific problem, the only additive I use is a fuel stabilizer for my Havasu toys and yard implement gas, otherwise I'll pass.
What I find irritating is I know there's other customers, both young and old, who will be paying another almost two hundred bucks for a simple service, for their "Preferred Package" based on their recommendations and sales spiel.

I shared with the advisor that In 2017 Ford sent a letter to dealers, in which it stated they shouldn't offer additives that were not recommended by Ford. He claimed these additives were approved by Ford, I can't find anything to suggest that's true.
When I got home I shot an email off to BG requesting documentation confirming Ford's approval of these additives. Be interesting to see how they respond.

Is this now becoming more common with automotive dealership service departments ?

Walking around the lot and viewing their markups on every vehicle even remotely "Special" and several heavily marked up "Custom" trucks, I'm thinking they're trying to beat out Ken Grody for the world's greediest dealer prize.

Aaron Ford?

 

[jetboatperformance]

Huge deal when I was a service manager BG would hard sell the additives to service and parts , the plastic tokens in the cans were redeemable to the end user (Techs) for prizes . Lots of unnecessary additives sold my opinion FWIW I was an EW in a case where a shop "installed" a name brand crankcase "cleaner" on high miles car , i worked to well the shit it cleaned and loosened up clogged the oil pump screen and "smoked" the engine

 

[bilz]

Toyota dealer in Whittier tried to pull this on me. They said "Recommended". I asked if it was a Toyota recommended. He got quiet and didn't say anything. I asked for TSB on it. Got nothing.
This is crap that they do this. Again,how many are they getting to pay for this stuff.

 

[QC22]

This stuff drives me crazy. I have an OEM background, CAT. I can't think of any additives they have ever recommended, for anything.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

They have a BG protection plan Lifetime guarantee

Lifetime BG Protection Plan® Certificate – BG Products, Inc.

www.bgprod.com

I don’t know that I would be mad, these are just upsells like any other business.

 

[Angler]

Commission based service writers.

 

[Your ad here]

Dealerships make money on sales. Additives may work but not always necessary. If you keep up on the vehicle service there should be little reason to add additives. Stretch the service intervals then maybe an additive will help with breaking down contamination in the engine. The thing that irritates me is the disgusted look and body language from the service advisor when I deny all the extra shit beyond just the oil change I wanted.

 

[TimeBandit]

This was brought up in another thread recently.

It's the new thing, car dealers and large independent shops trying to make an extra buck on service.

BG=Snake Oil.

If you really think adding 12 ounces of ANYTHING to 24 gallons of gas is helpful, go for it.

Just always use "top tier" gas and quality full synthetic oils and you will be ahead of the game.

 

[QC22]

Commission based service writers.

All my Service Department peeps were on commission. We never offered any additive BS. Crap like this still comes from the top.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Commission based service writers.

Best thing ever for my Warranty inspection business , I looked at a "failed water pump" on a Jeep yesterday that was being claimed as a result of a rear end fender bender

 

[Angler]

All my Service Department peeps were on commission. We never offered any additive BS. Crap like this still comes from the top.

The writers still make extra money. Yes, it does come the top.

 

[Your ad here]

This was brought up in another thread recently.

It's the new thing, car dealers and large independent shops trying to make an extra buck on service.

BG=Snake Oil.

If you really think adding 12 ounces of ANYTHING to 24 gallons of gas is helpful, go for it.

Just always use "top tier" gas and quality full synthetic oils and you will be ahead of the game.

It doesn't even have to be the best of the best. Just use clean fuel and oil that doesn't have water or contaminates in it and keep up service intervals. The service intervals on new engines is something to question. 5K miles on 7.3 PSD oil is black. 5K miles on 6.7 PSD oil is black, stinks, and silty. That silt feels like sandpaper... Ford suggest 7,500 mile oil changes on the 6.7.

 

[Taboma]

Aaron Ford?

Yes, they bought Perry Poway and Gosch Ford Escondido. I've grown accustomed to these dealer markups, Grody being the worst as he imports vehicles from dealers everywhere and tries to monopolize the market on any and all limited supply vehicles.
Aaron seems to be following his pattern and seems to be increasing his stock of these easily marked up vehicles as well.

 

[Sharky]

The new owner probably spent a good chunk of money on a "consultant"

The "consultant" told the new owner how to run his business. And it probably started with getting rid of the existing service manager that had been there for many years.

General manager is the next one to get their walking papers.

 

[lbhsbz]

BG was around when I worked at dealerships....there was a little plastic "token" in the bottom of each can/bottle of snake oil we'd pull out with a pair of long nose pliers. Every month the rep would come walk through the shop with a stack of cash...each token was worth $1. This was back when the highest paid guy in the shop was at $20/hr (flat rate). We had a different clientele than most dealerships....lots of loyal customers and not a lot of warranty work. We kept plenty busy doing the needed work and really didn't sell too much flush type stuff unless it was needed, which was rare.

The BG rep was always telling us how tech at other dealers were getting a few hundred a piece for the tokens where we might have 10 or so saved per month.

 

[dribble]

When I worked in an Indy shop in the early 80’s we used JB chemicals. The Chrysler K cars ( think Dodge Omni, Plymouth Reliant) would come in not idling dying, at stop signs due to a plugged up idle circuit. We would get that car completely warmed up and pinch off the fuel line and let the carb empty. Then we would pour JB gas additive into the carb through the float bowl vents. It would sit there and boil for a minute. It fixed the problem every time and saved the customers from having us rebuild or replace the carb.

When I worked at BAR I had letters from Ford and GM to their dealers addressing this subject. In short the letters said : They advised strongly against the use of any oil additives and if you are selling fluid exchange services based on the darkening of the fluid, you are misleading your customers. No car needs these additives. It is just another way to separate you from more of your money.

 

[Markus]

Oil additives are snake oil. If they had been required, they would have been part of the oil specification required by the OEM.

Time to go to another dealership or an independent.

 

[Taboma]

Based on the responses it seems that upselling these products has become more the norm than the exception. I regularly maintain our vehicles more frequent than stated in the manual depending on our usage. I routinely only keep our vehicles no longer than five years and usually the milage is considerably less than average and often scheduled service is more of a time than milage consideration.

When I returned after having declined his recommendations, I presented him with a copy of contents of a letter that had been sent to Ford Dealer Service Departments in 2017. I expressly pointed out the section addressing additives and supplements. This when he advised me that these BG products were in fact Ford Approved, yet is unable to provide documentation to substantiate his claim. I'm curious what response I'll receive, if any, to my request for evidence of this approval.

 

[Taboma]

When I worked at BAR I had letters from Ford and GM to their dealers addressing this subject. In short the letters said : They advised strongly against the use of any oil additives and if you are selling fluid exchange services based on the darkening of the fluid, you are misleading your customers.

That message is contained in the 2017 Ford letter text I posted a copy of.

 

[lbhsbz]

That message is contained in the 2017 Ford letter text I posted a copy of.

It was right about that time that BAR and maybe a couple other agencies announced they would be cracking down on this sort of bullshit flush upsell, and that in order to avoid getting in trouble, the shop better have documentation (testing results) proving that the service was required. The language used (color of the fluid is misleading) was also used in the official publication I saw...most of the OEs probably shot off a similar letter to their dealers to cover their ass in the event that the BAR actually did what they said they would do instead of just go after smog shops.

 

[Ziggy]

There's always been upsell of services in the Service Depts but the trend today is towards additives that require no actual labor with a price reflective of 4hrs of labor. Big profit margins like the mop-n-glow paint protection in the sales dept.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Yes, they bought Perry Poway and Gosch Ford Escondido. I've grown accustomed to these dealer markups, Grody being the worst as he imports vehicles from dealers everywhere and tries to monopolize the market on any and all limited supply vehicles.
Aaron seems to be following his pattern and seems to be increasing his stock of these easily marked up vehicles as well.

Bought my daughters Ford Escape at Aaron Ford Poway. Had a good experience with them but did see some of those STX F 150s with 2.5 Ready Lift and some wheels/tires for $78k.......lol

They had 2 Raptor Broncos in the showroom with $50k markups when we were there.

 

[SoCal_BT]

Been going to the same Ford Dealership since the mid 90's. The only thing that's changed has been the dealership's owners.
Not long ago this dealership was acquired by a new owner, one previously unheard of in San Diego, yet almost overnight that name appeared on at least three area Ford Dealerships.

First dealings with their service dept. yesterday, and was surprised when the service writers started pushing a hundred plus dollars worth of "Recommended BG Premium Additives" on top of a simple scheduled oil, filter, rotation request.

First time in well over 20 years I've had any dealer, from Lexus, Audi, GMC or Ford, rather aggressively push additives not in the manufactures maintenance schedule.

Unless I'm treating a specific problem, the only additive I use is a fuel stabilizer for my Havasu toys and yard implement gas, otherwise I'll pass.
What I find irritating is I know there's other customers, both young and old, who will be paying another almost two hundred bucks for a simple service, for their "Preferred Package" based on their recommendations and sales spiel.

I shared with the advisor that In 2017 Ford sent a letter to dealers, in which it stated they shouldn't offer additives that were not recommended by Ford. He claimed these additives were approved by Ford, I can't find anything to suggest that's true.
When I got home I shot an email off to BG requesting documentation confirming Ford's approval of these additives. Be interesting to see how they respond.

Is this now becoming more common with automotive dealership service departments ?

Walking around the lot and viewing their markups on every vehicle even remotely "Special" and several heavily marked up "Custom" trucks, I'm thinking they're trying to beat out Ken Grody for the world's greediest dealer prize.

I don’t know about Ford but AC Delco just partnered with BG Fuel Additives. GM put a GM Part number on the kits for gas and diesel engines. The factory now recommends these services at 7500 miles. You are correct a few years back GM sent the same letter saying they don’t need those additives in our vehicles and they want no aftermarket parts on their vehicles. They even have a letter that the dealers need to have the customers sign anytime a non GM product is being installed and you will lose your warranty. Even if you buy a new GM truck that has a aftermarket lift or wheels and the factory finds out they will void the warranty. Which is why you see these aftermarket companies offering their own warranties. And now you see GM Accessories offering g their own product which is protected from the factory since it’s been tested to GM engineering specs. Same as the BG ACDelco products. It went through 5 years of testing before GM brought in house.

 

[Taboma]

Bought my daughters Ford Escape at Aaron Ford Poway. Had a good experience with them but did see some of those STX F 150s with 2.5 Ready Lift and some wheels/tires for $78k.......lol

They had 2 Raptor Broncos in the showroom with $50k markups when we were there.

I bought my Raptor when that dealership was Perry, excellent experience and they'd been around forever. I was on the Poway lot recently and noticed those same trucks and similarly marked up vehicles --- and hence my Ken Grody comment, I hope I'm wrong, the world does NOT need two of that place.
Those dumb shits were still calling me weeks after I'd bought my Raptor, and still failing to budge from their $15k markup, and that was in late 2017.

I've got a connect at Aaron Ford's Escondido fleet department, so I'm going to have them price out a new F150 and avoid the sales floor. It'll be interesting to see what the management allows him to offer.
I'm certainly prepared to drive to Fontana and visit Sunrise if some savings warrant the trip.

 

[Taboma]

I don’t know about Ford but AC Delco just partnered with BG Fuel Additives. GM put a GM Part number on the kits for gas and diesel engines. The factory now recommends these services at 7500 miles. You are correct a few years back GM sent the same letter saying they don’t need those additives in our vehicles and they want no aftermarket parts on their vehicles. They even have a letter that the dealers need to have the customers sign anytime a non GM product is being installed and you will lose your warranty. Even if you buy a new GM truck that has a aftermarket lift or wheels and the factory finds out they will void the warranty. Which is why you see these aftermarket companies offering their own warranties. And now you see GM Accessories offering g their own product which is protected from the factory since it’s been tested to GM engineering specs. Same as the BG ACDelco products. It went through 5 years of testing before GM brought in house.

That's most interesting, thanks. I haven't checked Ford Parts to see if these products are offered.

 

[TPC]

Been going to the same Ford Dealership since the mid 90's. The only thing that's changed has been the dealership's owners.
Not long ago this dealership was acquired by a new owner, one previously unheard of in San Diego, yet almost overnight that name appeared on at least three area Ford Dealerships.

First dealings with their service dept. yesterday, and was surprised when the service writers started pushing a hundred plus dollars worth of "Recommended BG Premium Additives" on top of a simple scheduled oil, filter, rotation request.

First time in well over 20 years I've had any dealer, from Lexus, Audi, GMC or Ford, rather aggressively push additives not in the manufactures maintenance schedule.

Unless I'm treating a specific problem, the only additive I use is a fuel stabilizer for my Havasu toys and yard implement gas, otherwise I'll pass.
What I find irritating is I know there's other customers, both young and old, who will be paying another almost two hundred bucks for a simple service, for their "Preferred Package" based on their recommendations and sales spiel.

I shared with the advisor that In 2017 Ford sent a letter to dealers, in which it stated they shouldn't offer additives that were not recommended by Ford. He claimed these additives were approved by Ford, I can't find anything to suggest that's true.
When I got home I shot an email off to BG requesting documentation confirming Ford's approval of these additives. Be interesting to see how they respond.

Is this now becoming more common with automotive dealership service departments ?

Walking around the lot and viewing their markups on every vehicle even remotely "Special" and several heavily marked up "Custom" trucks, I'm thinking they're trying to beat out Ken Grody for the world's greediest dealer prize.

Get a load of this take:

 

[SoCal_BT]

If it has a Ford Part number then it’s backed by the factory. If it has a BG part number it’s not. I am not aware of Ford bringing it in house but I’m sure it’s a matter of time since GM did. Ford now have their own line of Ford Accessories which they followed GM. So be careful with any non factory products you put on your new vehicles. Especially on the GM side.

 

[TimeBandit]

If it has a Ford Part number then it’s backed by the factory. If it has a BG part number it’s not. I am not aware of Ford bringing it in house but I’m sure it’s a matter of time since GM did. Ford now have their own line of Ford Accessories which they followed GM. So be careful with any non factory products you put on your new vehicles. Especially on the GM side.

What's the GM part number?

I can't find anything with an internet search.

 

[SoCal_BT]

I bought my Raptor when that dealership was Perry, excellent experience and they'd been around forever. I was on the Poway lot recently and noticed those same trucks and similarly marked up vehicles --- and hence my Ken Grody comment, I hope I'm wrong, the world does NOT need two of that place.
Those dumb shits were still calling me weeks after I'd bought my Raptor, and still failing to budge from their $15k markup, and that was in late 2017.

I've got a connect at Aaron Ford's Escondido fleet department, so I'm going to have them price out a new F150 and avoid the sales floor. It'll be interesting to see what the management allows him to offer.
I'm certainly prepared to drive to Fontana and visit Sunrise if some savings warrant the trip.

Have you tried the Ford dealer in Temecula? It’s owned by the Gosch family. They move a ton of vehicles out of that store. Not sure if they have the added markups.

 

[SoCal_BT]

What's the GM part number?

I can't find anything with an internet search.

There are a few different part numbers depending what kit you need.

19435372 is the complete kit for gas
19435374 6.6 duramax these are pour in
19435373 3.0 duramax these are pour in

 

[dribble]

It was right about that time that BAR and maybe a couple other agencies announced they would be cracking down on this sort of bullshit flush upsell, and that in order to avoid getting in trouble, the shop better have documentation (testing results) proving that the service was required. The language used (color of the fluid is misleading) was also used in the official publication I saw...most of the OEs probably shot off a similar letter to their dealers to cover their ass in the event that the BAR actually did what they said they would do instead of just go after smog shops.

It was a touchy subject at BAR for a long time. Reason being is that we did not want to prevent businesses from engaging in free enterprise. (They are there to sell things and make money). We focused on the "Point of Sale". Our position was that if you make any misleading statements to sell products or services we will come down hard. Examples of such statements would be: "You need this product or service to keep your warranty in effect" Or your gas mileage will increase by 20 percent. Your PS fluid is discolored (they would always have that sample of clean and dirty fluid provided by the snake oil rep). When I gave presentations at Regional Service Manager meetings I would tell them that the most honest way to sell this stuff is to say we don't know if it will help or not but it won't hurt anything. That pissed a few of them off. The other was "would you sell this product or service to your mom"? Because if you wouldn't, you have no business selling it to anyone else.

As far as going after smog shops? We obviously had to do that but BAR also came down real hard on unlicensed mechanics and RIP Off Chain stores (Think the Early 90's Sears Case, Winston, Firestone, We took Tune-Up Masters completely out. Econo Lube & Tune. I got the Pep Boys Store on Folsom Blvd in Sacramento shut down for 30 days. It was the first time a major retailer had their license suspended for that long. They usually wrote a fat check and had a 1 day suspension on a Sunday.

 

[rivermobster]

Been going to the same Ford Dealership since the mid 90's. The only thing that's changed has been the dealership's owners.
Not long ago this dealership was acquired by a new owner, one previously unheard of in San Diego, yet almost overnight that name appeared on at least three area Ford Dealerships.

First dealings with their service dept. yesterday, and was surprised when the service writers started pushing a hundred plus dollars worth of "Recommended BG Premium Additives" on top of a simple scheduled oil, filter, rotation request.

First time in well over 20 years I've had any dealer, from Lexus, Audi, GMC or Ford, rather aggressively push additives not in the manufactures maintenance schedule.

Unless I'm treating a specific problem, the only additive I use is a fuel stabilizer for my Havasu toys and yard implement gas, otherwise I'll pass.
What I find irritating is I know there's other customers, both young and old, who will be paying another almost two hundred bucks for a simple service, for their "Preferred Package" based on their recommendations and sales spiel.

I shared with the advisor that In 2017 Ford sent a letter to dealers, in which it stated they shouldn't offer additives that were not recommended by Ford. He claimed these additives were approved by Ford, I can't find anything to suggest that's true.
When I got home I shot an email off to BG requesting documentation confirming Ford's approval of these additives. Be interesting to see how they respond.

Is this now becoming more common with automotive dealership service departments ?

Walking around the lot and viewing their markups on every vehicle even remotely "Special" and several heavily marked up "Custom" trucks, I'm thinking they're trying to beat out Ken Grody for the world's greediest dealer prize.

It's called a "spif".

Cheese ball dealerships will put all kinna different spif programs in place to dig deeper into your wallet!

Just about every single person in a dealership service department is paid on a commission basis. It's just how it works, and that's why service managers agree to these programs!

The writer will get a Substantial bonus, if he sells X number of spifs.

Of course parts makes a small profit on the actual parts involved, and the tech will get a piece of the pie also.

The final dollar amount on the ticket is what the service manager is looking for, so he has to find a way to make it get there!

Do all dealerships work this way?

Fuck no.

I've never seen this done at a luxury car dealership. Ever.

Only one Toyota dealership I worked at pulled this crap, and I only ended up working there a few months. The whole dealership was nothing but thieves.

Just smile knowingly and say, no thank you...

There is no point in arguing with a well trained salesman. They normally have an answer for everything!

 

[TimeBandit]

There are a few different part numbers depending what kit you need.

19435372 is the complete kit for gas
19435374 6.6 duramax these are pour in
19435373 3.0 duramax these are pour in

When my buddy sold snake oil in the 80's several MFG's would ask his company for bulk pricing, no "testing" was ever spoken of, just how cheap they could buy it.

His company never got a MFG contract, they were never the lowest bidder.

I had an insurance agent that formerly owned a snake oil additive that he sold for automatic transmissions, he joked with me the tiny bottle cost more than the ingredients.

I don't see any value in adding 11 ounces of ANYTHING to the 3,072 ounces of gas in my gas tank, I've yet to see it as required or even recommended in any owners manual.

Is GM claiming it will "fix" anything? Do they have actual independent laboratory/SAE tests posted anywhere that show proven results?

As most chemicals are not legal for sale to the public in California I suspect it is some formulation of alcohol and or acetone that are still legal to sell.

But again, how will such a small amount actually "do" anything? The placebo effect might be stronger than reality imho.

The real crime in dealerships selling BG products is the amount of labor charged for pouring in a few cans, pure rip off.

Kind of like the "nitrogen package" they sell, or "paint protection" packages, just say no.

 

[2Driver]

LOL Its a car dealership, since when do they have anything but their best interest at heart. Shit, I'm just happy if they remember to return the dip stick after an oil change.

 

[lbhsbz]

When my buddy sold snake oil in the 80's several MFG's would ask his company for bulk pricing, no "testing" was ever spoken of, just how cheap they could buy it.

His company never got a MFG contract, they were never the lowest bidder.

I had an insurance agent that formerly owned a snake oil additive that he sold for automatic transmissions, he joked with me the tiny bottle cost more than the ingredients.

I don't see any value in adding 11 ounces of ANYTHING to the 3,072 ounces of gas in my gas tank, I've yet to see it as required or even recommended in any owners manual.

Is GM claiming it will "fix" anything? Do they have actual independent laboratory/SAE tests posted anywhere that show proven results?

As most chemicals are not legal for sale to the public in California I suspect it is some formulation of alcohol and or acetone that are still legal to sell.

But again, how will such a small amount actually "do" anything? The placebo effect might be stronger than reality imho.

The real crime in dealerships selling BG products is the amount of labor charged for pouring in a few cans, pure rip off.

Kind of like the "nitrogen package" they sell, or "paint protection" packages, just say no.

GM has some great specialty chemicals....and they work. I guess it's cheaper than replacing parts under warranty. Their fuel injector cleaner (we called it bug juice)....every 4.3L or 5.7L spider injector engine with a "runs rough" complaint got a bottle...fixed 'em right up. Intermediate shaft grease kits, special drive shaft slip yoke grease....all kinds of fancy "fixes" for piss poor design.

 

[SoCal_BT]

When my buddy sold snake oil in the 80's several MFG's would ask his company for bulk pricing, no "testing" was ever spoken of, just how cheap they could buy it.

His company never got a MFG contract, they were never the lowest bidder.

I had an insurance agent that formerly owned a snake oil additive that he sold for automatic transmissions, he joked with me the tiny bottle cost more than the ingredients.

I don't see any value in adding 11 ounces of ANYTHING to the 3,072 ounces of gas in my gas tank, I've yet to see it as required or even recommended in any owners manual.

Is GM claiming it will "fix" anything? Do they have actual independent laboratory/SAE tests posted anywhere that show proven results?

As most chemicals are not legal for sale to the public in California I suspect it is some formulation of alcohol and or acetone that are still legal to sell.

But again, how will such a small amount actually "do" anything? The placebo effect might be stronger than reality imho.

The real crime in dealerships selling BG products is the amount of labor charged for pouring in a few cans, pure rip off.

Kind of like the "nitrogen package" they sell, or "paint protection" packages, just say no.

Most of these snake oil companies product don’t do anything for the vehicles. It’s a profit opportunity for the dealer. However GM engineering did test the BG product like I said for 5 years and had them make small changes to the product to meet their requirements. It is OEM recommended. I attached the flyer for you showing a couple pics and what it does for the vehicle. We are talking about having it added to the owners manuals in the future. Currently there is dealer communication and point of sale material such as the pic I posted you will start to see at GM dealers. This was just launched in December so it’s fairly new. The gas we put in our vehicles especially in California is not the best so it does cause buildup on the valves, injectors, cats etc. So to answer your question will it fix anything. It doesn’t fix but it will give you back the performance of the vehicle.

 

[Taboma]

Have you tried the Ford dealer in Temecula? It’s owned by the Gosch family. They move a ton of vehicles out of that store. Not sure if they have the added markups.

No, my only experience with Gosch was on the service side which I was satisfied with. Once I can finely settle on exactly what I want to order I'll get down to more serious shopping.
Did figure I'd try Sunset as they're an advertiser and I know a few members have been quite satisfied using RDP dealers. I'd say that Fontana is probably about as far as I'd travel to purchase a new truck.
This fleet guy who was Gosch and is now Aaron, is a great young man and if I can, I'd prefer to give him our business.

 

[rivermobster]

LOL Its a car dealership, since when do they have anything but their best interest at heart. Shit, I'm just happy in they remember to return the dip stick after an oil change.

Luxury car dealerships absolutely have the customers best interest in mind. They are well aware of what side their bread is buttered on!

With the exception of BMW though. I worked for em for nine long years, and I still couldn't tell you exactly what their priorities are. Ugh.

American car companies only car about money, and that attitude trickles right down to the dealership. Hence why they are big on selling you spifs.

 

[bilz]

Recommended and mandatory, two different things. But to the timid, scared or no mechanical knowledge, average customer they sound the same. "The tech recommends" carries a lot of weight if you know no better.
A dealership should be a place where you can send your mom by herself and she won't be taken by a shister.

 

[rrrr]

GM has some great specialty chemicals....and they work. I guess it's cheaper than replacing parts under warranty. Their fuel injector cleaner (we called it bug juice)....every 4.3L or 5.7L spider injector engine with a "runs rough" complaint got a bottle...fixed 'em right up. Intermediate shaft grease kits, special drive shaft slip yoke grease....all kinds of fancy "fixes" for piss poor design.

I can't remember the details, but there was a time when GM assembly lube was considered the best product on the market. I want to say around 1985-1995. Independent rebuilders used it, and they had their ass on the line if an engine failed.

 

[rrrr]

Recommended and mandatory, two different things. But to the timid, scared or no mechanical knowledge, average customer they sound the same. "The tech recommends" carries a lot of weight if you know no better.
A dealership should be a place where you can send your mom by herself and she won't be taken by a shister.

My mother-in-law is at the mercy of those assholes. She just says OK.

 

[2Driver]

Luxury car dealerships absolutely have the customers best interest in mind. They are well aware of what side their bread is buttered on!

With the exception of BMW though. I worked for em for nine long years, and I still couldn't tell you exactly what their priorities are. Ugh.

American car companies only car about money, and that attitude trickles right down to the dealership. Hence why they are big on selling you spifs.

True they just charge an extra 30% for everything up front and owners get a warm and fuzzy.

 

[rivermobster]

True they just charge an extra 30% for everything up front and owners get a warm and fuzzy.

Used to be that way, and even More that 30 percent!

Then one day, Lexus mandated that all CP labor will go by warranty rates, so that pretty much every dealership, has to charge the same across the board.

Definitely good for the consumer, but not so great for the dealership service departments.

The dealership has to show it's charging customers X amount of dollars to the customer, to get X amount of dollars for warranty labor.

So now you know why CP labor is two hundred bucks an hour now!

Once upon a time, these rules didn't apply. Everything is controlled by the manufacturer now, to promote constistancy.

I kinna doubt American car dealers have Anything like this in place? I really have no idea.

 

[77charger]

Anytime I went to a dealer when I bought my truck in for warranty fix they always tried to upsell me on anything they could. Change fluids even though they were well within intervals,brakes are showing west but I knew they were still great ( at 35k they went to 255k) And so on.

Just last month had two front tires replaced at discount tire along with new wipers which were shit actually. Go back 2 weeks later for rebalance on one tire of course they come to truck look and guy lifts feels wipers then tells me wipers are worn want to replace. I got a good laugh and was still laughing at him when I said you guys just replaced them 2 weeks ago you telling me you put junk ones one that don’t last. He just said oh.

 

[SBMech]

This was brought up in another thread recently.

It's the new thing, car dealers and large independent shops trying to make an extra buck on service.

BG=Snake Oil.

If you really think adding 12 ounces of ANYTHING to 24 gallons of gas is helpful, go for it.

Just always use "top tier" gas and quality full synthetic oils and you will be ahead of the game.

That is simply not true.

Barry Grant products are absolutely worth the money...if you need them. They actually WORK.

I don't upsell them on every service, I don't use them unless necessary, but they really have repaired and saved many clients of mine thousands of dollars in repair.

Sticky lifters, plugged mechanical fuel injectors, shitty spraying electronic injectors, decarbonizing cylinder head combustion chambers...they have their uses.

Yes there used to be a cash program for upselling at many dealers and independents, but I don't do that.

Like I said, they DO WORK however, as needed.

 

[Kachina26]

Been going to the same Ford Dealership since the mid 90's. The only thing that's changed has been the dealership's owners.
Not long ago this dealership was acquired by a new owner, one previously unheard of in San Diego, yet almost overnight that name appeared on at least three area Ford Dealerships.

First dealings with their service dept. yesterday, and was surprised when the service writers started pushing a hundred plus dollars worth of "Recommended BG Premium Additives" on top of a simple scheduled oil, filter, rotation request.

First time in well over 20 years I've had any dealer, from Lexus, Audi, GMC or Ford, rather aggressively push additives not in the manufactures maintenance schedule.

Unless I'm treating a specific problem, the only additive I use is a fuel stabilizer for my Havasu toys and yard implement gas, otherwise I'll pass.
What I find irritating is I know there's other customers, both young and old, who will be paying another almost two hundred bucks for a simple service, for their "Preferred Package" based on their recommendations and sales spiel.

I shared with the advisor that In 2017 Ford sent a letter to dealers, in which it stated they shouldn't offer additives that were not recommended by Ford. He claimed these additives were approved by Ford, I can't find anything to suggest that's true.
When I got home I shot an email off to BG requesting documentation confirming Ford's approval of these additives. Be interesting to see how they respond.

Is this now becoming more common with automotive dealership service departments ?

Walking around the lot and viewing their markups on every vehicle even remotely "Special" and several heavily marked up "Custom" trucks, I'm thinking they're trying to beat out Ken Grody for the world's greediest dealer prize.

This crap really came about when maintenance intervals started increasing. One of the reasons I got out of the business, so much of my work was disappearing and it made it hard for the honest folks to make a living. Hell, I remember when front brakes would only go 20 thousand miles or so. Now a set will go 80 or even 100k. I liked BG for injector cleaning back in the 90s. I wouldn't sell any of their other stuff though. GM did have its own in-house products, even way back then. And, they worked. Some will remember Top End cleaner that was a must for the old 5.7 Y motors.

Huge deal when I was a service manager BG would hard sell the additives to service and parts , the plastic tokens in the cans were redeemable to the end user (Techs) for prizes . Lots of unnecessary additives sold my opinion FWIW I was an EW in a case where a shop "installed" a name brand crankcase "cleaner" on high miles car , i worked to well the shit it cleaned and loosened up clogged the oil pump screen and "smoked" the engine

Injection kits came with a gold token in one can, black in the other and a slip of paper in the pack. Whole deal with worth $2.50. I was making $25 an hour at the time, it was a 10% pay increase on the service. Injector cleaning was a service that I could get behind, I saw it work on many occasions and did it on my own cars. The rest of the crap I felt was snake oil. We only had it because the other guys were upset that the driveability guys were "making out" once again.

All my Service Department peeps were on commission. We never offered any additive BS. Crap like this still comes from the top.

The "top" had nothing to do with it at my dealer. Service manager didn't even know we were getting the extra money for a long time.

It's called a "spif".

Cheese ball dealerships will put all kinna different spif programs in place to dig deeper into your wallet!

Just about every single person in a dealership service department is paid on a commission basis. It's just how it works, and that's why service managers agree to these programs!

The writer will get a Substantial bonus, if he sells X number of spifs.

Of course parts makes a small profit on the actual parts involved, and the tech will get a piece of the pie also.

The final dollar amount on the ticket is what the service manager is looking for, so he has to find a way to make it get there!

Do all dealerships work this way?

Fuck no.

I've never seen this done at a luxury car dealership. Ever.

Only one Toyota dealership I worked at pulled this crap, and I only ended up working there a few months. The whole dealership was nothing but thieves.

Just smile knowingly and say, no thank you...

There is no point in arguing with a well trained salesman. They normally have an answer for everything!

I was under the impression that spiffs actually became illegal in the early 90s. (I could be wrong) I remember the Olds dealer that I was at dropping them all of the sudden. We got to pull a tab off of a big advent calendar looking deal. I got football tickets once, I should have went.

I don't see any value in adding 11 ounces of ANYTHING to the 3,072 ounces of gas in my gas tank, I've yet to see it as required or even recommended in any owners manual.

GM recommended and PAID for the addition of Techron for their poppet style injection systems when they finally figured out what was causing them to stick. Hyundai owners manual calls it out specifically on their GDI systems. I'll agree that a lot of additives are crap, but some really are worth looking into. Just like everything else out there, you have to wade through a sea of BS to figure out what's what.

We took Tune-Up Masters completely out.

I started there, I think it was the beginning of the end for them. The guys I worked with were pretty good and we did the work that was needed. They paid for my smog license and the like. I got all my certs, some experience and moved on to a dealer to do driveability and electrical. I think there's still a store or 2 around. I remember the Toyota 4Runner you guys would send around with the skid plate covering the missing cat. Never got me, I did my work right. Then we'd call all the other locations and tell them you were coming LOL. I remember the BAR newsletters, there were a LOT of very similar sounding last names when it came to owners of less than scrupulous shops.

 

[Sharky]

I can't remember the details, but there was a time when GM assembly lube was considered the best product on the market. I want to say around 1985-1995. Independent rebuilders used it, and they had their ass on the line if an engine failed.

EOS. If you replaced an engine on any GM, this part better be charged on the warranty ticket. Same with cam & lifter replacement on a 350.

I've known engine builders that still swear by the stuff no matter the brand, , , Ford, Mopar, Honda, Toyota.

I used it in every engine or cam swap I built including Mopars.

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

That is simply not true.

Barry Grant products are absolutely worth the money...if you need them. They actually WORK.

I don't upsell them on every service, I don't use them unless necessary, but they really have repaired and saved many clients of mine thousands of dollars in repair.

Sticky lifters, plugged mechanical fuel injectors, shitty spraying electronic injectors, decarbonizing cylinder head combustion chambers...they have their uses.

Yes there used to be a cash program for upselling at many dealers and independents, but I don't do that.

Like I said, they DO WORK however, as needed.

BG trans cleaner and additive worked miracles on 90's Toyota transmissions. The throttle body and injector cleaner as well. Good products but they get over sold.

I had a co worker that cut corners and would not perform the service until they found a stash of unused chemicals then he used his tool box wheels.