Anybody do a DIY shower install

[WAAZ]

Gutted my park model, now it's time for the bathroom. With minimum research, I found a "Wedi" system that seems kinda spendy or the Home Depot "Schluter" system that is more affordable. What say ye?

 

[rivergames]

Gutted my park model, now it's time for the bathroom. With minimum research, I found a "Wedi" system that seems kinda spendy or the Home Depot "Schluter" system that is more affordable. What say ye?

I say:
-Install waterproof paper on walls
-cement board the walls (make sure studs are strait)
-float the shower floor with a mortar bed. Roll on Laticrete Hydroban Waterproofing (roll WP on cement board walls as well for secondary wall waterproof protection)
-Water test
-Install tile
-Grout (Preferably epoxy for future ease and extra caution)

 

[rivergames]

But there are many residential people who use these.

I'm commercial, we never use them

Our guys install old school, but tried and true

 

[wzuber]

www.johnbridgetileforum.com

You may find this useful, enjoi.
hydroban kicks ass.

 

[lf2]

I have been hearing alot of good things about the wedi stuff but haven tried it yet. I primarily use schluter systems on all the showers I do, have also used hydroban and other roll on systems.
There are alot of different methods out there but they are only as good as the installation I don't know what your skill level is but if your not confident in your abilities waterproofing a shower is not something you want to be experimenting on.

 

[Yellowboat]

I like Wendi it is good but kind of pricey,

 

[wzuber]

I don't know what your skill level is but if your not confident in your abilities waterproofing a shower is not something you want to be experimenting on.

good point, especially with the schluter type systems. Hardi backer type systems are a little more user/beginner/novice friendly. I would say having a complete solid, quality plan before you start is one of the most important aspects to a successful tiling project. Using the forum I linked is an excellent resource for learning how to plan and build a good quality shower project even if you choose to have a contractor do it. Not all "contractors" are the same and do a good quality job especially around Parker. Being knowledgeable of all that goes into such a project will help significantly in not only choosing a quality contractor but understanding and valuing what they are doing and it's related (labor) costs.

 

[wzuber]

-Install waterproof paper on walls

how about a 10mil plastic sheet? Have you tried that or feel that plastic sheet is a bad application for a shower?

 

[rivergames]

how about a 10mil plastic sheet? Have you tried that or feel that plastic sheet is a bad application for a shower?

I personally haven't used a plastic sheet. Although, it might work??

We use specifically made waterproofing paper behind our cement board or hardybacker

 

[NicPaus]

Plastic can become brittle with age. You want to use 60 minute paper not stucco paper.

I am going to be working on a shower today. Need to finish the rough plumbing so it can be wrapped tomorrow. Having Christmas later at Mom's house. Her present is all new drains in the slab and new bathroom. Tearing out all old supply lines up to attic so bathroom will have all new plumbing. Depending on the framing it will be cement board or floated.

 

[Mandelon]

We have used the Wedi system. I think actually that Schluter bought them.

Check out Hydro Blok. Light, affordable, easy to work with.

 

[Yellowboat]

Hydroblock is good too, it is like wedi but cheaper and they give all inclusive packages

 

[wzuber]

You want to use 60 minute paper not stucco paper.

ya stucco paper is only 15 min. so not ideal for sure when you have moist or even saturated cement mater. with no place for the water to go but into the paper then migrate down to the pan. How does 60 min. paper work in a niche etc.? Seems like it would be so rigid it would be nearly impossible to fold into the corners etc. Do you just layer it in and caulk as necessary to create a continuous seal/surface or how do you address that?

 

[NicPaus]

ya stucco paper is only 15 min. so not ideal for sure when you have moist or even saturated cement mater. with no place for the water to go but into the paper then migrate down to the pan. How does 60 min. paper work in a niche etc.? Seems like it would be so rigid it would be nearly impossible to fold into the corners etc. Do you just layer it in and caulk as necessary to create a continuous seal/surface or how do you address that?

Check out the pre fab niches. HD supply stocks them so does daltile and most tile stores. They are a lot thinner so you get more depth in niche.

If no prefab niche. I use subseal then after float or cement board hydroban it to double up on waterproofing. The subseal conforms easier.

 

[NicPaus]

Hydroblock is good too, it is like wedi but cheaper and they give all inclusive packages

How are these systems with movement? I almost always have them hot mopped.

I think he is referring to a mobile home as a park model. My mobile has a fiberglass pan. If If I had the time to redo bathroom and put in a pan I would start with tearing out osb subfloor and starting fresh with 1 1/8" plywood. Movement in mobile with no foundation causes a lot of issues with tile I have seen.

 

[wzuber]

Plastic can become brittle with age.

I understand plastic could become brittle with age over time but being that it's incased in the wall, not exposed to sunlight or temp. swings/extremes etc. and literally has no place to go how long would it take to become brittle? 40, 50 years or more? And even if it does become brittle what is there to damage it?
I've seen the pre-formed niche liners and agree they make a nice choice so long as you want those particular dimensions etc. I've just always figured (in my limited experience specifically here) that since I'm already using the plastic and it's pretty easy to work with and create a continuous surface I might as well just roll with that. I'll add a little silicone caulking in the bottom corners if I have any concern's what so ever, figure it cant hurt. I make certain when I install my framing and cement board that the bottom is sloped sufficient to insure adequate drainage and then when applying hydro ban or similar that the niche and any other special area's get coated generously to help insure max. water proofing.

 

[Yellowboat]

How are these systems with movement? I almost always have them hot mopped.

I think he is referring to a mobile home as a park model. My mobile has a fiberglass pan. If If I had the time to redo bathroom and put in a pan I would start with tearing out osb subfloor and starting fresh with 1 1/8" plywood. Movement in mobile with no foundation causes a lot of issues with tile I have seen.

they use a highly flexible silicone, so I would think ok, hydroblock recommnds
You use the mesh tape at the pan joint. Honestly with the how big that glue joint is I would not worry bout it. Granted mobile home being movies is a completey differet deal.

 

[Mandelon]

Here's a little shower we did in Escondido. Hydroblok system, subway tile. Used quartz backsplash pieces for the curb topper. The old pan had rotted out and taken half the bath floor with it... LOL

Typically we still hot mop, but the HydroBlok is ready in minutes... no mess, no smell, no dry time. It has the drain hole in it already, and the pan is presloped.

 

[NicPaus]

Here's a little shower we did in Escondido. Hydroblok system, subway tile. Used quartz backsplash pieces for the curb topper. The old pan had rotted out and taken half the bath floor with it... LOL

Typically we still hot mop, but the HydroBlok is ready in minutes... no mess, no smell, no dry time. It has the drain hole in it already, and the pan is presloped.

Looks good. How much was the hydroblok pan?

I have been using Hydroban on the slab jobs. Raised or second story hot mop.

 

[wzuber]

You use the mesh tape at the pan joint. Honestly with the how big that glue joint is I would not worry bout it.

Isn't the purpose of the mesh tape for crack isolation so it doesn't transfer thru the finish material? Same basic idea as using a slip sheet on concrete etc. or taping drywall? I hope you guys don't mind my questions as I only have 3 showers under my belt and I'm just trying to learn as much as I can from you more experienced pro's.

 

[wzuber]

We have used the Wedi system. I think actually that Schluter bought them.

Check out Hydro Blok. Light, affordable, easy to work with.

Interesting video. Thanks for the link. I certainly like the apparent ease of working with that material. That demonstrator guy will go home as clean as he came to work, what a concept. haha Not covered in cement dust from cutting wall board or mixing mortar etc. Did anybody else find it interesting that they didn't use any waterproofing membrane over the wall framing before the board installation? I guess they were emphasizing their absolute confidence of a completely waterproof surface and that nothing additional is necessary?
I guess with that material and a linear type drain your fully dependent on their silicone sealant and the drain body? Or would you still be able to use the mesh tape to help support the seal system from say an earthquake rattle developing cracks? I've not yet used a linear drain system so I'm not certain exactly how they work specifically but they sure a nice looking when finished.

 

[Mandelon]

Looks good. How much was the hydroblok pan?

I have been using Hydroban on the slab jobs. Raised or second story hot mop.

I really don't remember. But it was comparable to a hot mop plus the hardi-backer. Maybe a touch more $$. The labor and time savings made up for it.

http://www.hydroblok.com/hb-find-a-dealer/

I still have my guys use the standard shower vapor retarder. Aquabar is the trade name. I have used Tyvek and personally like it better, since it doesn't tear so easily, but a City Inspector told me shower liners are not an approved use of the Tyvek product, and I should stick with Aquabar on inspected jobs.

Don't use plastic, as it cannot breathe. Moisture can get trapped in the wall, and can't get out... so mold can grow on the framing and any other organics in the wall cavities. Think of any barrier as a retarder, not a barrier.

 

[Mandelon]

The Hydroblok also come in 1.25 inch thick "slabs", so you can build benches out of it... We have done those over hot mopped pans when the owner added the seat request after the pan was already mopped... You can glue and screw the thick pieces. They are light, super strong and easy to work with.

 

[wzuber]

Here's a little shower we did in Escondido. Hydroblok system, subway tile. Used quartz backsplash pieces for the curb topper. The old pan had rotted out and taken half the bath floor with it... LOL

Typically we still hot mop, but the HydroBlok is ready in minutes... no mess, no smell, no dry time. It has the drain hole in it already, and the pan is presloped.

That does look very clean and sano. I really like the stone pan finish and it really helps with the common slippage issue of a smooth tile material plus brings in a nice natural aesthetic element. When installing a frameless shower door system on a larger shower where you have a door and return panel type system how do the mounting brackets grab and hold at the base of the glass panel on the dam with it being just a foam material? That seems a bit concerning to me.

 

[Mandelon]

Interesting point. The foam has a super tough mesh bonded to the exterior. Even the 1/2" thick pieces won't break. Once the quartz 1x6 is bonded to it, they don't come loose. The glass is attached to the quartz... haven't had any issues, but no one has reported any accidents either.. I am honestly not sure what would happen if someone slipped and fell into it. I doubt it would come apart though.

 

[wzuber]

with my limited experience I'm a little hesitant to jump on board with these foam material systems to support the weight of tile or stone wall surrounds etc. especially being liable to the H.O. for the project for years to come. How long have these products been in use? How many years have you guys used these type products? What's the track record on it so far?
In that J.B forum link I provided the site originator uses and promotes the Schluter Sys. As a demonstration of the water proof capabilities of the material he built a small box, filled it with water and let it sit for a period (24hrs. +) and it was certainly impressive. As I recall from reading to qualify for the Schluter warranty program you have to do their training course (weekend?) and receive a cert. from them. Do these other system mfg.'s have the same type requirements for their products warranty? Would you hang say slab stone on this type substraight or would you use the more traditional mortar floated walls or hardi backer type materials?

 

[Mandelon]

Certainly the gold standard is a mud set style substrate. But in the quest to hurry things along and minimize labor, they have these options. I have Wonderboard at my own home, done 20 years ago. Still holding up without issues. It is a mesh wrapped concrete panel system.

I don't have long term experience with this foam stuff. I think it should be fine... but i have also had shoes with foam rubber between my foot and the sole fail after a few years. One minute you are walking along, and the next you have a flat tire and your tread falls off!

I know it is a different product, and a different kind of material but it still makes one wonder if the foam bubbles may poop out after a time? It would be exposed to no sunlight, not much air exchange and no real stresses..

 

[Mandelon]

This shower has the HydroBlok bench. Unfortunately it is behind that half wall. LOL But it has Hardibacker panels over Aquabar as tile substrate for the walls. Here we used a 1x6 of granite backsplash was used on the curb and wall topper. No joints.

 

[wzuber]

Certainly the gold standard is a mud set style substrate

Agreed, my thoughts are, when doing a stone slab type surround, it's better to be safe than sorry and stay with what's known to stand the test of time. Unfortunately, that too comes at a cost when somebody else underbids you using the other type systems and I lose out on a job because I won't take the risk/liability.

 

[wzuber]

This shower has the HydroBlok bench. Unfortunately it is behind that half wall. LOL But it has Hardibacker panels over Aquabar as tile substrate for the walls. Here we used a 1x6 of granite backsplash was used on the curb and wall topper. No joints.
View attachment 609863

sorry, the links not opening for me.
Edit.. Funny, the link works from my reply but not from your post. that's crazy confusing to me.

 

[wzuber]

This shower has the HydroBlok bench. Unfortunately it is behind that half wall. LOL But it has Hardibacker panels over Aquabar as tile substrate for the walls. Here we used a 1x6 of granite backsplash was used on the curb and wall topper. No joints.
View attachment 609863

Niiice...that's a beautiful bathroom. I really like the large format tile, I really hope I get to use that on the next shower I do. I like how you worked out the dimensions to have the tile center up on the window. I like the pop of the black granite, is that massabi black by chance? The Black vanity top contrasts the white shaker style vanity cab. really nicely and the wood grain tile floor is a nice touch as well. I like that material too. Looks so good and durable as ever in a bathroom application. What's aquabar?

 

[wzuber]

That aquabar paper sounds pretty interesting, thx for the mention. I didn't catch what the 30/30/30 represented specifically. Do you happen to know what that represents by chance? I'll check that out the next time I'm at the store. Now all I have to do is be able to remember it when the need arises in a century or so.

 

[Mandelon]

https://1ryb9a29s60d3oa6g1z9n2mo-wp...uploads/2016/11/DS_aquabar_b_with_IG_0916.pdf

 

[King295]

Since we are on the subject of showers, maybe you guys can help me out with shower in a home that I am currently in escrow on.

Master bathroom has the original 1960's 3/4 bathroom shower with small tiles that have cracks and grout is cracked/missing in certain areas. This has led to water intrusion in the drywall where it meets the tile. I had a certified mold inspector test it and it came back clean but it needs to be fixed. I plan on remodeling the entire bathroom in about 7 months but the seller's don't need to know that. I would prefer to just have some grout added and caulk wherever necessary just to get by until we remodel it.

Anyone have a rough idea on what this would cost to have done? House is in Garden Grove and is a 3/4 shower (no tub) tile up about 7' with a tile pan as well.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[King295]

Pics for reference

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mandelon]

Get a quote for all the repairs in the report and submit a buyers request for repairs. Ask for a credit. Regrout the shower would run probably $600.