What was the deal with the #VI drives being allowed to run in the Enduro Race?

[Racey]

I might have missed the article that RD was writing, so sorry if it's already been posted. I was just interested to hear what the deal was with the rules saying one thing and then the boats being allowed to run in the end anyway. Maybe someone knows?

 

[RiverDave]

Had a baby after the enduro, and have been so slammed trying to get caught back up I haven't had a chance to call Ross back and do the interview.

RD

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

Had a baby after the enduro, and have been so slammed trying to get caught back up I haven't had a chance to call Ross back and do the interview.

RD

Rule number 76.... No excuses, play like a champion!

 

[whiteworks]

I would attribute that to it being the enduro, lots of rules but who really pays attention to them anyways. You show up with something and they put you in whatever class it falls in according to the most recent revision of rules. The enduro is a cool idea but its pretty watered down and always seems to end in a cluster fuck. the boats go round and round and then they all stop at the same time, its over and no one knows who won LOL

Best thing to do is keep a checkered flag on board and when it stops pull out your flag and claim victory, the photos show up on line and your the winner, sort of.

 

[Racey]

Had a baby after the enduro, and have been so slammed trying to get caught back up I haven't had a chance to call Ross back and do the interview.

RD

No worries RD, i was just wondering if i missed it in some other thread, figured maybe someone else might know what the reasoning was for the rule in the first place, and then the subsequent change at the end

 

[River Lynchmob]

Shane i think it was they were not allowed to run the 1350 anymore...#6 with a 700 was the limit or is how i understoon it.

 

[RiverDave]

Rule number 76.... No excuses, play like a champion!

Shane i think it was they were not allowed to run the 1350 anymore...#6 with a 700 was the limit or is how i understoon it.

The rule I read said something about it had to be a shiftable drive, which would outlaw the NXT and 6.

RD

 

[Luvnlife]

I would attribute that to it being the enduro, lots of rules but who really pays attention to them anyways. You show up with something and they put you in whatever class it falls in according to the most recent revision of rules. The enduro is a cool idea but its pretty watered down and always seems to end in a cluster fuck. the boats go round and round and then they all stop at the same time, its over and no one knows who won LOL

Best thing to do is keep a checkered flag on board and when it stops pull out your flag and claim victory, the photos show up on line and your the winner, sort of.

Sounds like a plan:thumbsup

 

[CampbellCarl]

The entire process was done to slow down the race. Lots of arguements for and against the ruling but the bottom line was to reduce the differential speed from Division 1 to 6. Yes, Gary and Teague run 100+ but I think that the big Nordic was running consistant 120+ laps and the brain trust decided to reduce the top speed without using a speed limit.

I could have settled the same concern by eliminating Divisions 1 & 2..............................

 

[hallett21]

The rule I read said something about it had to be a shiftable drive, which would outlaw the NXT and 6.

RD

You can't shift a 6 between F N R

 

[fmo24]

You can't shift a 6 between F N R

They require a transmission

 

[hallett21]

So the shifting happens outside the drive. Gotcha

 

[hallett21]

Not to stir the pot. But don't v drives have transmissions with multiple gears?

 

[CampbellCarl]

Not to stir the pot. But don't v drives have transmissions with multiple gears?

Yes.......

 

[djunkie]

Not to stir the pot. But don't v drives have transmissions with multiple gears?

Some. A lot of the GN boats are a direct driveshaft to the v-drive. No trans. The v-drive unit itself will have a neutral built in. There's a lever on the v-drive to engage and disengage it.

 

[fmo24]

If limiting speeds was the intent of the rule by requiring bravo type od you are limited to the horsepower you can run and still have the drive live.

 

[hallett21]

Some. A lot of the GN boats are a direct driveshaft to the v-drive. No trans. The v-drive unit itself will have a neutral built in. There's a lever on the v-drive to engage and disengage it.

Can you run a transmission with multiple gears in the enduro?

 

[djunkie]

I still think its all bs. Put em all out there and may the fastest guy win. You can still organize classes and have winners for each. Then 1 overall. I think these rules are killing the race. People wanna go to see these fast Nordics kicking ass.

 

[djunkie]

Can you run a transmission with multiple gears in the enduro?

Yes. Gary's Schiada has one.

 

[brad22]

All I know is that the Enduro outlawed twin engine's so Warpath was out :grumble:

 

[djunkie]

All I know is that the Enduro outlawed twin engine's so Warpath was out :grumble:

They're eliminating all the best boats. I'm sure there's some excuse like insurance reasons or something.

 

[Racey]

The rules explicitly stated the drive had to be a "shiftable Bravo Style" meaning the shifting occurs within the drive itself, this greatly limits the strength of the drive, and de facto means you are limited on your hp as the drive won't survive that length of hard running with anything over probably 700hp, maybe even less for the 2 or 3 hours you would be winging it out. They also added the limitations for pump gas only and CI restrictions, which are also a means of limiting the power of the engines.

VI and NXT drives, along with III IV and V drives require a shifting mechanism that is separate from the drive, that means a transmission which could be a multispeed ie turbo 400, torqueflight, or powerglide, a single speed (velvet drive F-N-R), or a crash box (F-N-R that can't be shifted while the motor is running).

That is where the confusion was on my part, the rules basically outlawed non shifting drives, but then they let them run anyway. I'm not complaining about that so don't take it wrong, i think they should let everything run within certain size limit, the race would be basically shitty for any IO if they had to run bravos, they are simply not strong enough to handle the abuse, just wondering what happened at the last minute that they decided to ease up on it.

 

[djunkie]

The rules explicitly stated the drive had to be a "shiftable Bravo Style" meaning the shifting occurs within the drive itself, this greatly limits the strength of the drive, and de facto means you are limited on your hp as the drive won't survive that length of hard running with anything over probably 700hp, maybe even less for the 2 or 3 hours you would be winging it out. They also added the limitations for pump gas only and CI restrictions, which are also a means of limiting the power of the engines.

VI and NXT drives, along with III IV and V drives require a shifting mechanism that is separate from the drive, that means a transmission which could be a multispeed ie turbo 400, torqueflight, or powerglide, a single speed (velvet drive F-N-R), or a crash box (F-N-R that can't be shifted while the motor is running).

That is where the confusion was on my part, the rules basically outlawed non shifting drives, but then they let them run anyway. I'm not complaining about that so don't take it wrong, i think they should let everything run within certain size limit, the race would be basically shitty for any IO if they had to run bravos, they are simply not strong enough to handle the abuse, just wondering what happened at the last minute that they decided to ease up on it.

Doesn't Nordic sponsor the event?


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

 

[Kylemenz1]

Maybe they made the restrictions on drives to keep the cost for racers down. Realistically if a guy had tons of money he could slap a 1350 Merc setup ($150k) in a 21' boat and be able to run flat out all day with 99% chance of no issues. Most racers aren't able to spend that kind of money. By limiting the cost the race stays more completive?

Just a thought.

 

[Faceaz]

I still think its all bs. Put em all out there and may the fastest guy win. You can still organize classes and have winners for each. Then 1 overall. I think these rules are killing the race. People wanna go to see these fast Nordics kicking ass.

Then they should have to let Formula 1 Tunnels back in. But, insurance won't allow it & the regulation begins.

Regulation has always been a part of the race. I remember back when it was the 9 hour enduro, there was a tunnel I/O with Jaguar power that people were protesting because the rules stated engines must be American made. That boat sounded awesome though .

 

[Outdrive1]

Maybe they made the restrictions on drives to keep the cost for racers down. Realistically if a guy had tons of money he could slap a 1350 Merc setup ($150k) in a 21' boat and be able to run flat out all day with 99% chance of no issues. Most racers aren't able to spend that kind of money. By limiting the cost the race stays more completive?

Just a thought.

The race is supposed to be a "grass roots" deal. They didn't want 70mph boats running next to a boat going 50mph faster. They figured it wasn't safe and not what the race was intended to be. At least that's how it was explained to me.

 

[overpriced hallet]

I still think its all bs. Put em all out there and may the fastest guy win. You can still organize classes and have winners for each. Then 1 overall. I think these rules are killing the race. People wanna go to see these fast Nordics kicking ass.

Yeah if that was the case how many boats would show up to race then??? 2? yeah that would make it a real interesting race to watch then wouldn't it:rolleyes And if all the bitching about this race and it's such an easy problem to solve then someone should step up and put together and organize a race themselves and see how they do :thumbsup

 

[djunkie]

Yeah if that was the case how many boats would show up to race then??? 2? yeah that would make it a real interesting race to watch then wouldn't it:rolleyes And if all the bitching about this race and it's such an easy problem to solve then someone should step up and put together and organize a race themselves and see how they do :thumbsup

Seems to work just fine in Baja. But ya ya I know, boats are different.


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

 

[Outdrive1]

Gary's lap times were virtually the same as the outboards. He couldn't make up any ground starting after they started.

I think they should run a timed lap with the best time. Start according to that best time and be penalized if they break out of their times.

 

[djunkie]

I get it why they do what they do. To make it equal so that anyone can win the overall. I still think its bs though that the fastest guy doesn't win the overall cause of the handicap.


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

 

[Havasu Hangin']

Some. A lot of the GN boats are a direct driveshaft to the v-drive. No trans. The v-drive unit itself will have a neutral built in. There's a lever on the v-drive to engage and disengage it.

Like a number 6 with a crash box?

 

[overpriced hallet]

The race is supposed to be a "grass roots" deal. They didn't want 70mph boats running next to a boat going 50mph faster. They figured it wasn't safe and not what the race was intended to be. At least that's how it was explained to me.

That is exactly right :thumbsup. And I will say something at least as far as I am concerned, I built my boat to go racing in the enduro, I did the whole boat and motor by myself and a few friends, there is no way I could or almost anyone out there that is interested in this kinda racing that could compete with Randy so with that being said they should stop crying about it, and go start a race for the (BIG BOYS) and let all of us slow boats run what we brung:skull

 

[djunkie]

That is exactly right :thumbsup. And I will say something at least as far as I am concerned, I built my boat to go racing in the enduro, I did the whole boat and motor by myself and a few friends, there is no way I could or almost anyone out there that is interested in this kinda racing that could compete with Randy so with that being said they should stop crying about it, and go start a race for the (BIG BOYS) and let all of us slow boats run what we brung:skull

In other words, keep changing the rules until you can finally win an overall?


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

 

[overpriced hallet]

Seems to work just fine in Baja. But ya ya I know, boats are different.


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

Go race Baja then... The thousand is next week! see how you like running 16 car right in front of a trophy truck or a class 1 car on a single lane road:skull kinda the same. I'm not arguing that the nordics shouldn't be able to run, just not in this race at 60-70mph faster than the slowest boat.

 

[djunkie]

Like a number 6 with a crash box?

I've never been in a one of those monsters with a 6 drive and a crash box so I have no idea how it works. The v-drive ones, you usually gotta shut the engine off, put it in gear, reach down and spin the prop shaft the engage the gears, then fire her up and away you go.


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

 

[overpriced hallet]

In other words, keep changing the rules until you can finally win an overall?


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

Yeah right that will never happen as my chit sucks:grumble:

 

[djunkie]

Yeah right that will never happen as my chit sucks:grumble:

Well maybe when it gets down to just 2 of you.


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

 

[overpriced hallet]

Well maybe when it gets down to just 2 of you.


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

well by then you will enter your boat and have the family in for the ride

 

[OHHH YAAA]

That is exactly right :thumbsup. And I will say something at least as far as I am concerned, I built my boat to go racing in the enduro, I did the whole boat and motor by myself and a few friends, there is no way I could or almost anyone out there that is interested in this kinda racing that could compete with Randy so with that being said they should stop crying about it, and go start a race for the (BIG BOYS) and let all of us slow boats run what we brung:skull

Unfortunately I think this is what is killing ski racing not the only thing, but part of it, but at the same time Randy is keeps ski racing alive through sponsorship and participation (not trying to hijack or stir anything just stating an opinion and seeing a similarity)

 

[CampbellCarl]

Yes. Gary's Schiada has one.

Pretty sure that the old 727 tranny came out this year and something whirlaway compatible went in. Ill check with Gary and report back.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

 

[djunkie]

Pretty sure that the old 727 tranny came out this year and something whirlaway compatible went in. Ill check with Gary and report back.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

That could be possible as I haven't seen that boat in a while. I'm pretty sure it had a trans at one time though.

 

[Havasu Hangin']

I've never been in a one of those monsters with a 6 drive and a crash box so I have no idea how it works. The v-drive ones, you usually gotta shut the engine off, put it in gear, reach down and spin the prop shaft the engage the gears, then fire her up and away you go.

Same as a crash box. Shiftable tranny in a v-drive is similar, too.

I have no skin in the game, but if the idea is to keep costs down and boat speeds equal, why would you allow one drive that can handle 1,000hp turbo motor (v-drive), but not the other (#6).

 

[twocents]

This post-race discussion of the tech rules seems to follow every Parker Enduro. Not sure that tinkering with the rules on an annual basis is helping the event, especially if you look at the boat-count trend. 37 entrants this year -- last year over 40 -- the year before that close to 50 -- the year before that over 50 -- do we see a pattern here? Obviously the bad economy isn't helping, but wrangling over rules from year to year is a sure-fire method that's killed more than one boat racing event.

 

[hallett21]

I like outdrives idea. Have everyone run an individual qualifying lap in Perfect clean water. Better yet let them run three. Take the best time and then handicap boats accordingly. That seems to be the most fair way to level the playing field.

 

[djunkie]

This post-race discussion of the tech rules seems to follow every Parker Enduro. Not sure that tinkering with the rules on an annual basis is helping the event, especially if you look at the boat-count trend. 37 entrants this year -- last year over 40 -- the year before that close to 50 -- the year before that over 50 -- do we see a pattern here? Obviously the bad economy isn't helping, but wrangling over rules from year to year is a sure-fire method that's killed more than one boat racing event.

And it seems like there's some drama about scoring after the races I've been to also. Not all if them though. But always some sort of drama with the rules. Not sure why the boat count is dropping. Could be the constant restrictions and rule changes. But I'd imagine its more a money thing by most. I will say one thing, I sure as hell liked watching those Nordics run.

 

[overpriced hallet]

This post-race discussion of the tech rules seems to follow every Parker Enduro. Not sure that tinkering with the rules on an annual basis is helping the event, especially if you look at the boat-count trend. 37 entrants this year -- last year over 40 -- the year before that close to 50 -- the year before that over 50 -- do we see a pattern here? Obviously the bad economy isn't helping, but wrangling over rules from year to year is a sure-fire method that's killed more than one boat racing event.

Y did the parker 9 hour go away?

 

[hallett21]

Y did the parker 9 hour go away?

Could you tell those of us who are unaware what the 9 hour was?

 

[rivermobster]

I still think its all bs. Put em all out there and may the fastest guy win. You can still organize classes and have winners for each. Then 1 overall. I think these rules are killing the race. People wanna go to see these fast Nordics kicking ass.

Not me. I'm far more into seeing the privaters run, than someone with unlimited funds.

 

[overpriced hallet]

Could you tell those of us who are unaware what the 9 hour was?

The Parker 9 Hour Enduro was started in 1963 by local Parker Residents Marrion Beaver and Cecil Florence (with a lot of help by a lot of people) after Marrion and Cecil traveled to Miami Marine Stadium for their (Miami's) Endurance race. The two felt they could make a bigger and better "Enduro" on the Colorado River so thus began the Parker 9 Hour Enduro which in and of itself has a storied history which lasted until 2000, which by then it had become a shell of itself, a four hour race (2 hours each day) which pitted F1 tunnel boats vs. GN's, not the way it orignally began, which was a "run what U brung" race boats, pleasure boats, etc. The F1's ran like timex watches and attrition was so high that only a handfull of boats were running at the end plus the fact that due to low turnout it was a financial disaster to the conducting organization. So with that it ended until 2003 when a few guys were waxing nostalgic on another message board. It took a lot of time, effort and dedication on the part of a few but it came back and has been back now for 6 years. No, it is not the Parker 9 Hour Enduro on the original course (Blue Water to La Paz County Park and back) but it is growing in the right direction and NO capsule boats are allowed as it creates a whole new set of circumstances (diver's, safety, etc.) and is what killed the original Enduro in the first place.

BTW, some of the biggest names in boat and auto racing, not to mention a President's son, astronauts, a certain Oil Well Fire Fighter (Red Adair), and nearly every major boat builder from the 60's on up participated or fielded boats in the old 9 hour (it went to 7 hour in the 70's with gas crisis) also, Mercury and OMC slugged it out against each other and the field of Inboards. That is why it was brought back.

 

[CampbellCarl]

That could be possible as I haven't seen that boat in a while. I'm pretty sure it had a trans at one time though.

Yes, a VERY reworked Chrysler727.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2