Workers cheating on time cards.

Mandelon · Jan 3, 2013

I run a small remodeling business. We mostly do REO rehabs for banks, water damage repairs and various construction projects all over the county. We have 16 guys at the moment..... I typically run two or three man work crews. I have a company van that one of my crews drives. The helper is a new guy, maybe here six months. He has a brother and a cousin here. The lead guy used to be my estimator but he was put back in the field when things slowed down. He used to really be sharp, but has been really disappointing me over the past year or so. Divorce, drugs, lack of ambition, doesn't finish things.

I tend to stick with what I know, rather than get new guys....that philosophy has not proven to be the right one in this situation. I have been watching some Restaurant Impossible and Hotel Impossible TV shows and they inspire me to get off my duff and make some changes. I shouldn't be here to break even.

Back to the van....I bought it from my neighbor. It has a GPS tracker in it. So I asked him to verify the van's location throughout the day. It shows when the ignition comes on, where it goes, when the ignition is off...etc. So I can see what time they get in it and got to work, when they arrive.....when the leave the job, and when they get home..

I compared this to the last two weeks of time cards. Big issues. As I suspected, they are cheating us just about every single day. A couple days the time cards show they work until 4:00....but the van was back at the house at 2:30....

The supervisor verified the time card of the assistant....so they are in it together. When the cards say 7:30 to 4:00 exactly...every day.....there's something fishy.

So on Monday two guys are gong to be fired. Two or three others are on the bubble. I don't quite trust them....so I need to track them as well I think.

I wonder about other means of tracking field employees..... any suggestions or ideas? GPS phones? How much are those I wonder.....$50 a month each would be paid for in a day or two...

F*ckers....I hate getting ripped off. Grrrrrr :grumble:

Our jobs are typically only a few days each, and all over the county. So an office type time-clock just won't work.

wsuwrhr · Jan 3, 2013

Sorry to hear Mandy.

I hate thieves.

People tend to take advantage of good bosses.

Brian

OGShocker · Jan 3, 2013

http://www.dhgate.com/p-ff808081353...egomall|QL||&gclid=CO6C46mRzbQCFSTZQgodCBIAxQ

Once you have proof, this is theft! Call the LEO's and start pressing charges.

I have and the theft stops from that point!

Sorry to hear.

Hammer · Jan 3, 2013

Somebody has to make a electronic sign in/time card software, something where each employee has a password and the job site supervisor has a laptop or iPad . My time sheet always says the same 6:00-3:00 but I usually work later than that, I only change it if I'm leaving early or working several hours late.

McRib · Jan 3, 2013

We punch in and out over the phone. U have to do it from the phone each employee is assigned. I cant punch in from a co workers phone. U can monitor it from your computer. Match it to the gps on the truck and ull know who is cheating right away. Its a pretty neat system but it took us quite a while to get used to. Lots of guys forgot to punch out at the end of the day. Best part is its adjuztable. Idk the name of it off hand. Ill find out if ur interested.

wsuwrhr · Jan 3, 2013

Hammer said:
Somebody has to make a electronic sign in/time card software, something where each employee has a password and the job site supervisor has a laptop or iPad . My time sheet always says the same 6:00-3:00 but I usually work later than that, I only change it if I'm leaving early or working several hours late.

The supervisior is the leader in the deal

OutCole'd · Jan 3, 2013

Time to drop the hammer!!

I get the same way, someone sucks, but I sometimes get discouraged. and figure who ever I hire is going to suck the same or worse, so I just live with a sub par employee. Need to quit that shit and start replacing people. there are a lot of people out there that want that job!

Bobby V · Jan 3, 2013

We put GPS in our trucks and the guys are not very happy. We don't have time cards we pay off of the gps. Cut down on the guys using the trucks on the weekends also. We did have one of our best foreman quit over this and went to our competition. My buddies company can track employees with thier company phones.

OutCole'd · Jan 3, 2013

Is it that Napoleon Mother Fucker??

HavasuHank · Jan 3, 2013

budman382 has some kind of tracker on his trucks. he'll even get a text when the truck goes above 55 mph i think. mandy, he should be able to help you when he sees this thread.

Mandelon · Jan 3, 2013

OutCole'd said:
Is it that Napoleon ZZ Top Mother Fucker??

Yup. :thumbsdown

Mandelon · Jan 3, 2013

McRib said:
We punch in and out over the phone. U have to do it from the phone each employee is assigned. I cant punch in from a co workers phone. U can monitor it from your computer. Match it to the gps on the truck and ull know who is cheating right away. Its a pretty neat system but it took us quite a while to get used to. Lots of guys forgot to punch out at the end of the day. Best part is its adjuztable. Idk the name of it off hand. Ill find out if ur interested.

Yes, Please.

OutCole'd · Jan 3, 2013

Mandelon said:
Yup. :thumbsdown

That sucks and makes it that much worse, he was one of your key guys you trusted..:thumbsdown

wsuwrhr · Jan 3, 2013

In my past life the shop wanted the employees to track how much time per day everyone spent on various jobs. Man everyone was in an uproar. I didn't say shit. The way I saw it, if you were doing what you are supposed to, then what does it matter.

That is why it's called a job.

Brian

soupersonic · Jan 3, 2013

I can remember going onto another foremans job and everyone company wide is supposed to get a 15 minute break in the am and 30 minutes for lunch.These guys were taking at least an hour each break.At 6-7 guys it adds up quick.Thieves suck.In this shitty economy i cant believe people are that ungratefull to have work

What about paying them per job?

rivermobster · Jan 3, 2013

OGShocker said:
http://www.dhgate.com/p-ff808081353...egomall|QL||&gclid=CO6C46mRzbQCFSTZQgodCBIAxQ

Once you have proof, this is theft! Call the LEO's and start pressing charges.

I have and the theft stops from that point!

Sorry to hear.

Yep. Set an example. Everyone else will straighten right up!!! :thumbsup

OutCole'd · Jan 3, 2013

You may want to watch that new office manager! I bet she rips you off every chance she gets. She looks sneeky!!

rivermobster · Jan 3, 2013

OutCole'd said:
You may want to watch that new office manager! I bet she rips you off every chance she gets. She looks sneeky!!

Dick!

Mandelon · Jan 3, 2013

OutCole'd said:
You may want to watch that new office manager! I bet she rips you off every chance she gets. She looks sneeky!!

She takes me for everything I get!

Exaktime, this looks promising. Takes their picture when the log in....

Buoy · Jan 3, 2013

I've been on both sides of this fence.
The guys in the field are gonna pushback to a monitoring system, as long as they are completing projects on time.
But, if they are jacking off at work, you are budgeting too much time.
Your super needs to go.
Bad influence.
His job is to come in under budget, and under schedule on every job - even if he is strapping bags on.

I don't have a problem if I estimate 8 hrs for something, and the guys get it done in 6. I'd be willing to pay for 8. I'd just adjust my scheduling / estimates on the next project

SoCalDave · Jan 3, 2013

The company I work has an honor system for all employees (4,000+) globally for time keeping. Everyone is responsible for reporting their hours every week (-salary) and it has been that way since the company was founded in 1954. There have been a few that have cheated but they were examples for the rest!
Our benefits are some of the best out there as well.
Though they perform highly complex background checks on every new employee hired, they even check your credit score, drug testing has never been a part of the per-screening proceedure...as said it is an honor system and 99.9% of the employees respect it.

dezertrider · Jan 3, 2013

I use a system called Corrigo. I use mine for service but they also have a construction application that Im sure is good.

It tracks there time and places a stamp on the map where they start and stop there job. It automaticily adds there time to the jobs and syncs up with my Quickbooks. It takes my less then 2 min to do payroll now.

Its an App that they can download to any IPhone or Android. The best part is its on there phone that is also what you talk to them on, They always have it with them.

If you get it plan on loosing a few guys. The ones that complain the most are the ones ripping you off. I tell everyone its there to keep everyone honest.

I pay about 3k a year for 5 field guys. I think its another 5-600$ per year for each additional guy. Money well spent. Not having to track time cards and placing cost to jobs with out anyone in the office is priceless

Weekend Therapy · Jan 3, 2013

Mandelon said:
She takes me for everything I get!

Exaktime, this looks promising. Takes their picture when the log in....

That might work well. I had a job years ago in Oregon with 60+ guys and I used a bio metric system so they couldn't clock each other in or out. If they forgot to clock out they were only paid for an 8hr day in which we were working way more then 8hrs.

Mandelon · Jan 3, 2013

dezertrider said:
I use a system called Corrigo. I use mine for service but they also have a construction application that Im sure is good.

It tracks there time and places a stamp on the map where they start and stop there job. It automaticily adds there time to the jobs and syncs up with my Quickbooks. It takes my less then 2 min to do payroll now.

Its an App that they can download to any IPhone or Android. The best part is its on there phone that is also what you talk to them on, They always have it with them.

If you get it plan on loosing a few guys. The ones that complain the most are the ones ripping you off. I tell everyone its there to keep everyone honest.

I pay about 3k a year for 5 field guys. I think its another 5-600$ per year for each additional guy. Money well spent. Not having to track time cards and placing cost to jobs with out anyone in the office is priceless

Sounds excellent. Can you track where they are during the day? My neighbor's dealio is all James Bond n shit. He can see their little red dots blinking down the freeway on the map feature.

C-2 · Jan 3, 2013

The technology is there, as stated, I've seen process server GPS systems that account for nearly every footstep they make in the field. GPS logs are used in court and are pretty hard to beat down or disprove.

Your idea of company owned and controlled phones also seems reasonable. Company owned - you got them by the balls. BYOD - steer clear until the dust settles.

C-2 · Jan 3, 2013

Mandelon said:
Sounds excellent. Can you track where they are during the day? My neighbor's dealio is all James Bond n shit. He can see their little red dots blinking down the freeway on the map feature.

See, you should have bought everybody iPhones for Xmas with the agreement the phones belong to the company, but they are allowed to use them. :thumbsup

BUDMAN · Jan 3, 2013

ellabo said:
budman382 has some kind of tracker on his trucks. he'll even get a text when the truck goes above 55 mph i think. mandy, he should be able to help you when he sees this thread.

Ellabo is correct. After having my guys screw me every day for over time, telling me the trucks need gas almost every other day when you know they havent been any where, then you find out they are using them for personal use i had to figure out something. i pay my guys from the gps. when they arrive at the job site there time starts when they leave there time ends plus i deduct 1/2 hour every day for lunch. the gps sytem i use is pretty good i can set it to recieve texts for a varety of things. let me know if your interested and i will get you the info

DILLIGAF · Jan 3, 2013

We have tried different things and are now using the phones for logging in/out along with the gps on the phone.

Tom Brown · Jan 3, 2013

Tracking is a good idea but, all the same, you need to yellowboat these fuckers as an example to the others.

Sleek-Jet · Jan 3, 2013

SoCalDave said:
The company I work has an honor system for all employees (4,000+) globally for time keeping. Everyone is responsible for reporting their hours every week (-salary) and it has been that way since the company was founded in 1954. There have been a few that have cheated but they were examples for the rest!
Our benefits are some of the best out there as well.
Though they perform highly complex background checks on every new employee hired, they even check your credit score, drug testing has never been a part of the per-screening proceedure...as said it is an honor system and 99.9% of the employees respect it.

My company is the same way, but we still have GPS in the trucks.

I've known quite a few guys over the years that thought they were smarter than the system, all got caught at some point.

Buoy · Jan 3, 2013

I've used systems that map where a truck is, how fast it's moving, leaves alerts if over the speed limit, if the truck is running, idle, parked. How long it has been parked...
The technology is there, and relatively cheap.

Mandelon · Jan 3, 2013

BUDMAN382 said:
Ellabo is correct. After having my guys screw me every day for over time, telling me the trucks need gas almost every other day when you know they havent been any where, then you find out they are using them for personal use i had to figure out something. i pay my guys from the gps. when they arrive at the job site there time starts when they leave there time ends plus i deduct 1/2 hour every day for lunch. the gps sytem i use is pretty good i can set it to recieve texts for a varety of things. let me know if your interested and i will get you the info

Very interested. How much did their hours change when you implemented the new technology?

My concern with the "log in/log out" is that they will forget to do it.....then what? Oh, my battery died, Oh the phone broke.... I guess it will be no phone, no work. Break phone, buy new phone....

AZKC · Jan 3, 2013

I've quoted some big GPS jobs for fleets and there are dozens of choices. As complicated as you want them to be. You have to watch out how the system communicate and how often they send out data. The reporting can get expensive, kinda like minutes on a cell phone.

There are small battery powered ones you can use as needed and they collect the data then you download it via USB.

Then there are ones that ping every minute and supply way to much info, monitoring 10-15 funtions. When your watching 1500 vehicles the reports that get generated are overwhelming.

Waterjunky · Jan 3, 2013

Currently I am only managing projects and not staff, but in the past at other jobs I have dealt with all the issues involving staff. Pick out the worst ones, the ones you have the best documentation on doing this (just in case it ever goes to court) and the ones you do not want working for you anymore and make examples. Hold a company meeting, start it out with asking them to leave. hand them there final checks right there and send them out the door. Then have a come to Jesus talk to the rest of the crew and lay out your "new" policy involving the new timeclocks. Let them know that you are serious, pissed over it, and if they do not like it they can find other options. At the worst you will have one more walk out. I would be suprised if any did.

Tough love in this case. In a week or so show them a little love and do a basic bbq on a friday for lunch for them or show up late at the end of the shift and buy them a beer and relax with them for a few minutes. My goal was to be liked by all and screwed with by none.

Bobby V · Jan 3, 2013

Buoy said:
I've been on both sides of this fence.
The guys in the field are gonna pushback to a monitoring system, as long as they are completing projects on time.
But, if they are jacking off at work, you are budgeting too much time.
Your super needs to go.
Bad influence.
His job is to come in under budget, and under schedule on every job - even if he is strapping bags on.

I don't have a problem if I estimate 8 hrs for something, and the guys get it done in 6. I'd be willing to pay for 8. I'd just adjust my scheduling / estimates on the next project

THats how I would do it when I was superintendent. It paid for when the guys would work a little over or come into the shop to pick up material.

Joker · Jan 3, 2013

This is why I'm thankful not to have employees.

wsuwrhr · Jan 4, 2013

Joker said:
This is why I'm thankful not to have employees.

Anytime I think I need one, Ill refer back to this thread.

HavasuHank · Jan 4, 2013

wsuwrhr said:
Anytime I think I need one, Ill refer back to this thread.

do you need a part time shop manager?

Joker · Jan 4, 2013

wsuwrhr said:
Anytime I think I need one, Ill refer back to this thread.

It sure makes life easier having people do the work for you but I believe this shit happens in every company. I know my old employees did it to my company.

wsuwrhr · Jan 4, 2013

ellabo said:
do you need a part time shop manager?

Maybe.

Pretty cake job right now.

I've been waiting for you to show up for a couple months.

Flyinbowtie · Jan 4, 2013

Bummer Mandy. I didn't read the whole thread, (think I am fighting the flu), but I instantly wonder what else they have stolen from you.
Supplies running short on jobs?
Do they have a fuel card?
Tools missing or wearing out too quickly (as in side jobs eating them up?)
When you terminate, everything you own gets collected at that point. If you get the slightest amount of grief from them I would file with the police. (they will probably not do a damn thing unless you can get the numbers up pretty high)
Hold on to all the GPS records you have on the van for awhile and their time cards.

HavasuHank · Jan 4, 2013

wsuwrhr said:
Maybe.

I've been waiting for you to show up for a couple months.

Pretty cake job right now.

i know bud. my schedule has been a mess lately. it'll be messed up for another 2-3 weeks and then i'll back to normal. come to think of it, i am off on saturday :hmm

wsuwrhr · Jan 4, 2013

ellabo said:
i know bud. my schedule has been a mess lately. it'll be messed up for another 2-3 weeks and then i'll back to normal. come to think of it, i am off on saturday :hmm

By Saturday I'll be back to week three of figuring out how to install a 4 peice bathtub in San Bernardino. Hoping my shop doesn't go out of business in the meantime.

You game to manage that?

Brian

Advantagepools · Jan 4, 2013

We use network car on all of our work vehicles. I let all employees now that it's there. Has also helped us once I have let someone go when they then try to collect unemployment I am able to show proof that they were in fact cheating us on time.

dezertrider · Jan 4, 2013

Ive worked for small companies and huge companies. There is always the few guys that steal, weather its fuel, Materials, tools or time. I only have one technician currently that I dont need to watch but know there will be others I hire that need to be watched.

I keep telling my self to remember when times get good dont get lazy! Visit the customers and techs in the field, Do surprise inspections and review jobs done. Its amazing how much bettter the work comes out when they know you will inspect it.

Every tank filled gives me MPG reports, crappy gas milage means there stealing gas. Every part purchased gets emailed to me and every job complete has GPS time stamps. I estiamte that all the various uses of technology I take advantage of will reduce my office staff by 40% compared to other Similar companies

dezertrider · Jan 4, 2013

Advantagepools said:
We use network car on all of our work vehicles. I let all employees now that it's there. Has also helped us once I have let someone go when they then try to collect unemployment I am able to show proof that they were in fact cheating us on time.

Years ago I had a real issue with a tech but could no fire them according to HR. They recommended that I catch them stealing time and its an easy termination. I documented him stealing at least 8hrs a week. All the other sticky issues that didnt allow me to fire him disapeared

Mandelon · Jan 4, 2013

It will be a wake up call to the remaining guys on Monday when there are two guys less. I can't stand dishonesty, but I am partly at fault for being so lax.

Tools have disappeared from time to time. No one ever knows where they go.....

The quickest thing to disappear is duct tape. Buy a case of that and its gone in two days.... :rolleyes

I am not big enough to have an inventory manager, and not small enough to be on every job every day....so they need to be honest. A tracking system will help keep them that way!

Buoy · Jan 4, 2013

Mandelon said:
It will be a wake up call to the remaining guys on Monday when there are two guys less. I can't stand dishonesty, but I am partly at fault for being so lax.

Tools have disappeared from time to time. No one ever knows where they go.....

The quickest thing to disappear is duct tape. Buy a case of that and its gone in two days.... :rolleyes

I am not big enough to have an inventory manager, and not small enough to be on every job every day....so they need to be honest. A tracking system will help keep them that way!

I could use part time work.
And I've been a licensed self employed contractor with employees. I gave that up to be a purchasing/material manager for a global optics company.
Saved them $400k my first year.
I've been off work due to a med issue.
I'm ready to start working again on a limited basis to start.
I guarantee I can save you double my wage.
If you want someone to straighten it out, let's talk.

jayboat · Jan 4, 2013

Back in the early 80's when I had a lot more energy-
I managed a high-volume graphics facility for a Fortune 500 Company.

It was very cool to know I had a dozen VP's watching my numbers.

They were smart businessmen- it was a helluva brain trust.
And they were constantly analyzing my work (2 dozen employees, moderate turnover)
and were always sending me to seminars for things they felt I needed (I did).
The shop I was running was crucial to a $50mm operation with 9 remote printing plants.
Nearly every time they instructed me on something, I knew in my heart they were dead on the money.
Big business, big money, no phucking around.

The thing I learned,
the thing that stuck with me the most from those years
was the importance they placed on smart hiring.

With all the tech available these days, a manager's job is a bit easier...
but there is a process to help avoid bad hires- they can cost you in many ways.

73beast · Jan 4, 2013

Had Nextels for a long time.We had to start punching a lunch,after they started enforcing Ca.lunchbreak law. Had a program installed into the phone called E-trace,gps tracked and pinged the phone every two minutes. E-trace also went direct into our time keeping system. Because of the gps the management knew exactly where you were at on all punches.

Workers cheating on time cards.

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